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Thread: CIEKA- bolt on aftermarket brake kits for W202's

  1. #26
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    hey mate, just wondering if you ever got hold of the calipers or the suspension? interested to hear about them.

  2. #27
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    No I have not gotten to this car yet. I have other projects still going and unexpectedly come accross a deal on an RV last month. I will be getting to this car build but other things keep taking up my time and this is a low priority since nothing is wrong with the car currently. I have two other cars that need attention first- TIming chain on the Caddy, and brakes on the truck, then I am pulling and overhauling the generator on the motorhome when I get my next individual free days. Got to get the honeydo list out of the way before I have fun doing fun modifications- its all about time and priority.

    I am also on the fence what wheels I plan to buy for this car- so with that said, if the brakes are not going to show with a wheel choice like a w210 Monobolck then I will probably just leave the stock brakes since they work decent. I really do not drive this car much unless the little lady and I go out to dinner together or such- I am rarely in the car by myself- it has become her daily driver. I am building it more for her with the Brabus bodykit and some nice wheels- but I will put very high end coilovers on it for handling safety and ride comfort, as well as I can set the ride height exactly where I want it prior to installing the wheels and bodykit. So the coilovers are definately going to be ordered once I get the other vehicles out of the way. I can then keep it at current height with the stock wheels and then later lower it to the Brabus kit once I install that and the wheels together. I do not like hammered stock looking cars- they look silly. However, I am not putting the kit and wheels on unleess I can set the ride height at that time to fill the fender gaps and tune/correct supension geometry properly when I do so.

    Believe it or not, I am actually now debating doing some Lorinser LM6 fanblade wheels in sliver w/chrome lip with the Brabus kit- I still do not know. I will cross that bridge before summer though definately. I would like to have this car done by then. But like I said, right now it's all about free time- so I will update things when I actually do them. I still jump on here once in a awhile researching and learnig this car- it is new to me- I have no experience buidling anything like it and am learnign what is availiable for it by doing posts lke this- I keep finding more options to aid in my final decissions. When I do it though, it will all be at once and not a drawn out process. When I start something I like to finish it quickly. The interior was a priorty and is finished, I have only had this car about 5 months but immediately cleanedup what was faulty with it so she had a reliable and decent looking car, especially on the inside where a few things were broken and/or worn and damaged.

    I am definately going with an inverted shock-why? because I want to retain a good ride ratio and keep the unsprung weight low. I also want a monotube shock but am on the fence if I want to spend the money on 1way or 2way dampers- the race driver in me keeps saying 2way, its just instictive, but I keep thinking its a luxury car and it will never see any track used ever so just do the 1way rebound adjutable units- that is probably what I will do. I also do not weant to have issues of monoball uper mounts knocking on me ove rtime and her complaining about solid shock mount noise, however I am also on the fence about using quality dampers with just a simple ruber bushing mount that will still cause some undampered movement- decisions, decisions.

    Next decision is I have been researching goemtry correction options like these offset bushings- They will help with both front and rear wheel/fender clearance when making especially the important front camber corrections whe the car is lowered.
    http://www.k-mac.com/pages/newprods/...ercedes_05.htm.

    I lastly have the issue of coilover/wheel clearance on the fronts. I have hasd this issue with a few Gm cars so I know what to anticipate. I first off need to figure out what spring rates I plan to use. Alot of the generic coilover kits use a 16.7kg (935 lb) front spring and ab 11.8kg (661 lb)rear spring for a heavier noses C280. I want to retain lighter weight factory swaybars and not lock up the suspension to retain ride quality, but to aid in cornering I want to use a very high qualty rebound damper with a little higher rate springs on the lighter nose weight C220. I am looking to go 950 lb fronts, and 750lb rears to losen the rear end a little and ge tthe car to rotate going into a corner.....then... if those rates work/ or not, I will order some better high end barrel shape coilsprings in the rates I will decide on after I gather some test drive info on that setup. Barrel springs have more coil wire in the design and have a far better frequency and rate stability than the conventional coilover springs the kit will provide. I just also need to see if a barrel spring will fit up front and not rub the chassis or the wheel/tire assembly.

    Still researhing things so when I do put the hooks out I am prepared and educated on what is out there for my best decissions.
    When I do things, I do them right- its all about educating myself first and sleeping on that knowledge and choices, not just impulse buying and then later regreting when you find their was a better way.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    ah thats cool.

    What are your thoughts on the 3 way adj. one's they have? for a car that'd be used on the street and track?

    thanks, Trent

  4. #29
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    THey make some nice stuff. I do not see a need for the 3ways though. I mess with some Penske 4ways once and really did not see a need for it. Back when shocks mainly were built with progressive (linear) valving, 4 way was a nice feature because it would eliminate high piston speed harshness when you valved stiffer for low speed control. The massive high piston speed stiffness would break shock mounts.

    Modern Valving enables digressive valving which bleeds off damper stiffness so it does not build up when using stiffer low speed valving, so I really do not see a need for the low piston speed (0-10" per second movement) and high piston speed (1o"-25" per second movement) dampering because the Digressive valving in essence takes care of that very well.

    I know how to use them and use them well, whereas most people do not even know how to properly tune 2way shocks- with that said, I would not bother messing with them. Just get 2-way inverted shocks, that is what I am doing and trust me I am a suspension guru. I run 8 shocks on my big pickup truck that I call Vetruck and I revalve those QA1 takeapart shocks myself. I run one linear and one digressive valved shock in each corner of it sionce it is so heavy. I played with the valving for about 6 months uuntil I had them correct . but that vehicle is so specialty with how much it weighs and what it does (it literally is a Corvette killer on autox track- with a 5200 lb curbweight with me in it. I used to valve al the shocks when I was crewcheif for a NASCAR supertruck team also. Why am I listing all this, to give a little background that I am quite qualified on shock use, especially for non symetrical circle track use where it gets very complex. With all that said, I am just buying the 2 ways even if I were to track the car.

    ps- Ceika was at the SEMA show in Las Vegas in 2012, so the company really is up and coming.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    Not sure if you've looked under the car but I think you're dreaming if you think your going to get inverted shocks in there!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dearlove View Post
    Not sure if you've looked under the car but I think you're dreaming if you think your going to get inverted shocks in there!
    Yes I have looked and I do not know what you are talking about. There is plenty of room to mount an upsidedown shock with the top mounts. Matter of fact the shocks I currently have are comventional with a collared upper sleeve (dirt protection of the upper seal) from the factory that is wider than an inverted body shock on both front and rear.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    spoke to ceika about this, they said inverted shock was unavailable for our cars

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dearlove View Post
    spoke to ceika about this, they said inverted shock was unavailable for our cars
    Then I will have to tak to them and give them measurements so they can make them. What they are concerned about without talking to them is how the coilover is going to mount up front. It is alot more room with the inverted shock because the spring on top the conventional design yeilds less room with the upper control arm- yet they can do that and they offer that design. You talked to the wrong person. If I had their machinery, I would just make them myself- I can probably teach them a thing or two- I am just not a machinist
    Last edited by Vetruck; 01-31-2013 at 08:05 PM.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    yeah i have no idea who i talked to, guess it was a sales rep... surprising the machinist isn't answering their emails....
    so are you going to see if you can go a true coil over up front?
    Last edited by Dearlove; 01-31-2013 at 09:02 PM.

  10. #35
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    Yes definately. I could probably even piece one together for aftermarket vendors to work using possibly QA1 products or such. I would rather use a company like this that has machined bodys and mounts so I can set the preload. I can not do that unless it is machined for the specific vehicle, otherwise I would just have to go to a conventional coilover threaded body shock. I am experienced in fabrication (cut weld grind etc) so I could alter things if needed like clearancing the upper front control arm a little more as well as strengthening the arms if needed when I ultimately do this. I would rather just buy a very nice kit and bolt it in. I have too many other cars I am always fabricting stuff on so I do not need another garage queen project especially when its the wifey's daily driver. THis car can not be down for a day or two at most, whereas my other toys can be.

    Like I said though, I need to finish a timing chain on my Caddy, I just got the brakes on the truck so that is done this week, then I need to do quite a bit of little odds and ends on the new RV for an upcoming trip in April- then I am getting to this car's suspension. I drive it once or twice a week and I hate it- too lofty, its making me seasick...lol
    Last edited by Vetruck; 01-31-2013 at 10:44 PM.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    Great, well I'm looking at getting brakes and suspension in a week or two. So if you happen to talk to them about doing a coilover conversion before then that would be great!

  12. #37
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    Btw the guy I spoke to was the director

  13. #38
    Senior Member anf6789's Avatar
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    i see on tirerack.com for the W208 they sell KONI FSD suspension, H&R coilovers, and Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers as well. Now from what ive heard the w208 suspension is pretty much exactly the same as the w202. hmmm? i like the idea of the FSD's or any of the other ones for that matter.

    http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/S...1&autoModClar=
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  14. #39
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    Or you could use one made for our cars...

    sure it will probably bolt in (not sure if the rear is the same) but the balance would be all off

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    BAd news. I have been doing alot of research on this in recent days. It appears we have the same issues as I did on my 87 Camaro with the top shock mounts not being strong enough to hold the vehicles weight. Al of this talk about "coilovers" availiable for these cars are NOT coilovers. I knew this to be true already for the rears (they used adjustable spring pocket inserts/ or better known as insert type weight jacks)- well it turns out all the "coilover kits" for these cars are like that in the fronts also...including KW. They do not sell a coilover for these cars even though they claim is as such. ALl of the springs in these kits remain in the standard spring location with the shock in a separate location. A Coilover is just that= a Coil that is over the shock- fucking marketing idiots in these companies like KW, Ksport, XYZ, etc. I have not seen nor can I find any pictures of anyone putting a coilover on any W202- anyone have pics to prove this otherwise?

    What I am currently researching is making a standard Monotube shock that is inverted with a bottomstud mount (on the body) and a top eye mount (on the shaft) that can be run upsdedown. I have contacted a company about building me some- I have sent them the first email just verifying first that their monotube can run upsidedown with their warranty still in place (leakage etc so not to void a lifetime warranty). If so then I will get them the measurements and see what cost would be to build and valve them to my specs for my car.

    I am seriously just now looking to go back to what I was originally checking into with adjustable swivel cups- it is alot like what SpeedyBenz did to his, however mine would be welded in, not bolted with delrin snadwiched suspension arm spacers. I still in all honesty need to kepp looking at the car (it is not home right now- wifey has it) to see each new idea. I would really like the ajustable jack bolts to come up through the top 1) for light unsprung weight, and 2) for ease of adjustment. Those "coilover kits" are NOT in any way easy to adjust ride heights. You pretty much have to drop the coilsprings out of the pockets each time you adjust them becuae they are clear up inside the upp sppring can where the factory rubber spring pads go- and they call that adjustment? might as well just used shims if you have to take everything apart each time, I could weld some of those up on various lengths in an hour or so.

    and yes the FSD technonlgy is very nice. It is pretty much advanced digressive valving.

  16. #41
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    yeah man, been through all that myself.

    There a few really good examples of what you're talking about on 190rev

  17. #42
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    yeah man, been through all that myself.

    There a few really good examples of what you're talking about on 190rev

  18. #43
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    Checked a few things tonight, I have some ideas I am going to check more into on the spring perches. I will have to make my own. I would like to make them up top but I am more worried about the control arm pockets and how I need to modify them for smaller diameter flat bottom springs (like used on actuall coilovers) I will probably buy used sets of fronts and rears off ebay (fronts can be found aprox $56 each used, and rears about $39 used). I could then have a set to modify to take the springs I want to use.

    The front springs 3" I.D stock (4" aprox O.D.) can probably be cut down since they are so long and have plenty of room without coil bind. Cutting off about 2 coils would give me a decent increased spring rate and still have plenty of wire length no to increase the frequency all that much. I did not cout the winds but it appeard to have at least 8-9 free coils. most Gm cars have 5-6 so an 8-9 free coil spring explains the lofty seasickness these cara have when the OEM dampers fade- If not then springs are cheap ($60 each).

    The front spring top perch: I love it. I take a threaded spring plate and cut the diamater down to fit atop the spring perch. A little rolled lip up top needs to be quickly grind off and then weld the plate onto it in a 4" diameter. Then simply cut down a swivel cup diameter and weld a 1" cut piece of 2 3/4 steel tube onto it to seat inside the top of the spring and grind the OEM spring pigtail flat to sit against it- wallah- a top mount adjustable weight jacker setup that is easily usable front under the fenderwell with a rachet and the wheel turned outward. Just need a short jack bolt so as not to go up into the inner fender sheetmetal.

    The rears I need to check still if I can go intot eh truck with the jackbolts (I am sure I can, just need to look what might be in the way up inside the spare tire/battery area. if so then I would do pretty much the same thing back there but with aftermaket 2.5" I.D springs. I probably should just do both front and rear both in 2.5" aftermarket springs just to make things uniform. The beauty of this is they are already flat on the ends and I can easily modify some secondary used lower front AND rear control arms with flat spring plates welded to them with again some 1" cut pieces of 2.375" O.D tubing to keep the springs in place.

    This would keep the heavy weight of the weightjacker cups, bolts and threaded jack plates off the articulating Ccontrol arms to keep the unsprung weight low. I just need to cut and add a little wieght to the arms with the modified smaller diameter lower spring perches. So far it all looks doable. I have been looking at the K-mac adjustable bshing kits (expensive, but they come with the installation tools in that cost and give good range of camber fix with pulling in the lower arms. I'd rather pull in and use a wheel spacer shim to set the wheel where I need it, as oppsoed to having fender lip clearance issues that are not correctable.

    As I am learning this car and what opinions I am having/discovering- I am open to other opinions that anyone ahs to share- you may know things availiable that I do not.

  19. #44
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    read this, this is exactly what you want to do

    http://190rev.net/forums/showthread....jackers&page=2

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dearlove View Post
    read this, this is exactly what you want to do

    http://190rev.net/forums/showthread....jackers&page=2
    Light emphasis on the word 'exactly' but yes. My execution will be alot more porfessional.

    His spring rates are not the same as our cars though. I question his uses of 900/900. That is a pretty stiff rear spring. I was going to use 900 fronts since the so called coilover kits use 935lb16.7kg springs front and 11.8kg/ 661lbs rears. Since I have a lighter nosed 4 banger I will drop the front just a tad to 900 but I want the rears up to 750 so I can get the car to rotate_ I like a slightly loose and very lightweight swaybars. Springs are cheap so I wil experiment with those rate probably first and see what I have.
    Last edited by Vetruck; 02-12-2013 at 08:26 PM.

  21. #46
    Senior Member Dearlove's Avatar
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    That was just his prototype

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