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Thread: Larger Sway bars. Calling anybody that's fitted them. Vetruck any comments?

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    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Larger Sway bars. Calling anybody that's fitted them. Vetruck any comments?

    As per the thread title.

    Eibach offer 28mm front & 18mm rear.
    H&R offer 26 or 28mm front and 18mm rear.

    That's all I know as I've zero experience with larger bars on any C-Class. Anybody care to comment?
    JJJ.

  2. #2
    Im running 30mm fronts from a CLK55. made by eibach (OEM). Using the original bush from the wrecked car oh and I think the sway bar mount thats bolted to the chassis needs to be reversed. 5min job though so its easy as.

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    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Howdo funboy?

    What's the 30mm one feel like and did you do anything with the rear?
    JJJ.

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    does anyone know how thick c43 front/rear swaybars are?
    maybe they share the same partsnumber like CLK55?

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    Hi guys, sorry Ive been so busy of late. I remembered i have not been on here for several days so came on to check on things.

    I have a 26 front and 18 rear on my 4cyl car. however, I run the sport 6cyl springs on my light weight 4 cyl car. AND I run koni yellows on full rebound front and rear settings.

    Lets analyse this- The car I have is 200lbs lighter then the 96 280's (mine a 94 C220) With the heavier Eibach sport springs for the C280 and C36 applications on the lighter car. What this does is decreases nose dive without harming independent wheel function. If we were to compare that to me simply using the normal Eibach c220 springs for my weight engine, and then go to the larger of the two swaybar choices (the 28 instead of the 26 I used) the car would have about the same roll resistance BUT would have more nose dive under hard braking. The Koni max rebound settings also dramatically help with anti body roll into corners. Swaybars are a fine tuning tool. My car to begin with (as I assume most of yours do also) had a lot of understeer. A larger front swaybar only adds to that. Nose dive on a car will lengthen the time it takes for a car to react to cornering inputs of the steering wheel. The quicker you stand on the car's loaded weight the quicker the chassis will react. A stiffer front swaybar but lighter front springs will cas a car to stand on the outside front wheel, but also not retain corner height and will compress for a moment longer as it gives was under load. Giving way will also tug up the inside front wheel ****Which is the wheel that turns you****. Think of grabbing a pole with your left arm as running past and the force yanks you to a left turn...as opposed to pushing off a wall with the right hand to turn left. You right arm will give under compression and delay any response in the left turn direction.

    THUS

    The heavier springs and lighter swaybar will help load the inside wheel to grab and turn the car better then the heavier bar and lighter spring rate.

    Heavy bar AND heavy spring rate will cause understeer as well and make the lateral roll load mostly the front outside tire overloading it compared to how much the outside rear tire loads.

    Bigger is not always better.



    This goes further if you want me to make your heads hurt...lol- pertaining to vehicle roll centers which are imaginary roll points as to which the car rolls (as in roll pitch and yaw) on. The stiffer front springs help keep the front RC from diving into the dirt rapidly upon braking compression, thus staying higher compared to the vehicles imaginary leverage arm to the center of gravity. This decreased roll leverage results in the lesser need of swaybar size. In other words, my roll bar effectiveness of my 26mm bar is probably a lot more effective on my overall roll resistance then the 30 mm bar on the said car above due to roll center migrations or lack of. I also maintain better ride comfort and better mechanical grip due to independent wheel travel not being locked up by the larger sway bar connecting both side together as one.- I get better straight line braking grip as well.

    Any questions? ask away. This is technical stuff we are getting into and most advanced chassis techs never understand this stuff in a lifetime. I however could easily teach a 4 year college course on this stuff.
    Last edited by Vetruck; 02-14-2016 at 11:03 PM.

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    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Cheers Vetruck.

    Now I don't want anymore understeer even if it's not really excessive. What I'm looking for is a nicely balanced car, basically that handles better that standard. I've got adjustable Koni's and Eibach springs which are the same for the C280 so I don't have option of fitting a heavier front spring. So, what would you advise specifically for my car in it's current state?

    1. Stick with the standard sway bars.
    2. Fit 26mm and 18mm bars.
    3. Fit 28mm and 18mm bars.
    4. Only fit 26 or 28mm front bar.
    5. Only fit 18mm rear bar.

    Considering both H&R and Eibach offer uprated sway bars as a pair I can only presume by fitting the pair they will overall be beneficial to the handling and have been designed/sized to work with their springs too?

    Thanks.

    JJJ.
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-15-2016 at 02:50 PM.
    JJJ.

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    You have the heavier engine so the 28mm is appropriate. Especially with how Eibach and others balance their spring rate packages with the front (I personally feel in my opinion) to soft a rate. As the nose dives under braking you will need the heavier of the two sway bars to fight the roll leverage. To get the car to rotate if the car is still to tight? run the front rebound settings on the Konis low and the rear rebound settings high- see how that performs and adjust accordingly if too much loose on the rear then either up the front also or lower the rear (both high is a little firmer ride but better cornering, lower is comfort.

  8. #8
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Vetruck.

    Any upside going for the 26mm front bar instead of the 28mm?
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-16-2016 at 06:18 AM.
    JJJ.

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    Only if you go with a little heavier front spring rates. The heavier front spring rate will compensate for a smaller sway bar and like I stated above- the smaller swaybar will retain a better ride comfort and better mechanical grip with a greater independent wheel travel compared to a larger swaybar in the same application with a lighter spring rate

  10. #10
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    OK, thanks again.
    JJJ.

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    I researched several car curb weights for you to reference.

    My 1994 C220 3150 lbs
    A 1996 C280 3350 lbs
    your 1998 C230K 3290 lbs
    A 1996 C36 3549 lbs
    A 1999 C43 3448 lbs.

    If I had your car, the springs I would go with would be the H&R Super Sport springs for the C43.

  12. #12
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Vetruck my car (manual G/box and no options other than standard specification) only weighs 3124 lbs/1420 kgs according to M-B in their ''ready-to-drive condition'', which is an allowance for a a driver, some luggage and fuel. So, almost the same weight as your C220.
    What do you think, if those figures are correct I just might have the optimum front springs fitted after all?
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-17-2016 at 02:53 PM.
    JJJ.

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    It appears I stand corrected. I was looking at US spec cars which obviously must fall under much stricter safety standards and are substantially heavier then the European based versions of the same car. You car is actually 2965 lbs curb weight! I'm jealous , I thought I had the lightweight nibble version of the W202- I at least do in the states, but not compared to elsewhere.

    http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...02_2/1998.html

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    It appears I stand corrected. I was looking at US spec cars which obviously must fall under much stricter safety standards and are substantially heavier then the European based versions of the same car. You car is actually 2965 lbs curb weight! I'm jealous , I thought I had the lightweight nibble version of the W202- I at least do in the states, but not compared to elsewhere.

    http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...02_2/1998.html

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    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetruck View Post
    It appears I stand corrected. I was looking at US spec cars which obviously must fall under much stricter safety standards and are substantially heavier then the European based versions of the same car. You car is actually 2965 lbs curb weight! I'm jealous , I thought I had the lightweight nibble version of the W202- I at least do in the states, but not compared to elsewhere.

    http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ma...02_2/1998.html
    The thing is, not many it seems want a manual gearbox, no leather, no sunroof, no electric seats etc. I must be one of the few that like it's basic spec i.e. low weight and less to go wrong. Actually all the car has is air con above the basic spec of a European C180 of the same year even though it's a 230K Sport.

    When I put my car on a weighbridge last year it came in at 1360 kg/2998 lb with a 1/4 tank of fuel. Ideally I'd really like to get that down by 60 kg/130 lbs initially and then look at removing another 50 kg/110 lbs and end up with 1250 kg/ 2750 lbs. But I don't think that will be easy while trying to keep the car useable as a daily driver also I suspect it would end up being a four door saloon with only two seats!
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-18-2016 at 07:28 AM.
    JJJ.

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    Hi John I just got the rust on my sunroof attended to. All 230K sports here in SA were sold with sunroof and leather seats in SA. Rust will definitely come back just a matter of time.

  17. #17
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Hey Abbas.

    S/roof and leather as standard? Well the leather shouldn't add too much weight if any and the s/roof may be 25 kg/60 lbs? You might be right about it returning, did you even think about retro fitting a glass panel instead?
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-26-2016 at 02:07 PM.
    JJJ.

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    No I haven't. I do have access to complete roof with no sunroof. If I've got the car long enough I might look into that. I've never heard of retro fitting a glass panel.. Is the supercharger still cutting out on high rpm?

  19. #19
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Well, I'm presuming the glass panel can be fitting instead of the the standard steel one but possibly the complete cassette is required? It would be a nice touch and no rust.

    I don't want to speak too soon but so far I'm not losing the S/C on sudden WOT. Still will need to do a good few more miles to be sure as I had nearly done 250 miles and no issues but then I let the battery go flat (don't ask!), so the ECU has gone back to relearn mode. When I clock up 250+ miles I'll know for sure.
    JJJ.

  20. #20
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Double post.
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 02-28-2016 at 12:40 PM.
    JJJ.

  21. #21
    sorry for not responding sooner- been busy dealing with life haha.
    The 30mm is great. I have the 4cyl model and yet having such a stiff bar, the car does not understeer at all. It darts into the corners very well even on stock shocks with eibach sport lowering springs. Ive upgraded the shocks to the koni adjustables and have them set at around 1/2 to 3/4 stiffness most times and the car feels great that way.
    I have yet to upgrade the rear from the stock c200 item as it requires dropping the subframe (or so ive herd) and I dont have the room/ enough tools to do it safely.

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