How much boost?

[boesewicht]

I'm going to get a Mosselmann Turbo Kit for my C220. It will produce 205 hp with 0.4 bar of boost. They told me that the kit will run without any other modifications on the engine with that boost.

Can I turn up the boost on that Mosselmann system? What modifications do I have to make then? How much hp can I get out of that system WITHOUT blowing my engine..?

Existing power gains of other mods (exhaust system from header to muffler, camshafts) will persist and could be added to the estimated 205hp of mosselmann?
I estimate 220hp, is that okay?

And then how much hp could I get with turning up the boost (see my question above).

Hope you guys can help me.

Alex.

[Under Pressure]

THe kit comes with a Garrett AiResearch T-25 turbo, that has an adjustable external wastegate that you can adjust to turn up the boost. I think you could probably turn it up to maybe 6psi or so, which is not that much. I had mine running a little more boost but I think that a former member here blew his C220 engine at around 7psi with his turbo kit (he later rebuilt it). I would not want to risk it.

If you really wanted to crank it up, it would cost you money. You would have to get forged pistons/ rods, perhaps sleeves (though I think the C220's tough block might not need them), and bigger injectors for extra fueling.

[Denlasoul]

Is Jason H's website still up? I think it was turbobenz.com.

[boesewicht]

I know the webpage of JasonH, but I'm afraid of that pic with the blown engine. Please understand that I'm afraid of taking information from there.

So 0.4 bar is the best way to go with? How much hp could I get out of turning the boost up to 0,5, to 0,6 and to 0,7 ?

What means "Sleeves" and why do you think the 220 block does not need them?

Is 0,6 okay? Do I need forged pistons / rods, bigger injectors and those sleeves (please tell me what they are) for running that boost secure and stable?

Do I need something else? Or is that all I need, forged pistons, rods, bigger injectors and sleeves?

Thank you in advance, please help me to answer my questions.

[VIP_MBZ]

Sleeves are steel cylinder inserts used to reinforce an otherwise all-aluminum block. Not sure which MB blocks are cast iron and which are aluminum, but you don't need sleeves on a cast iron block.

-Ray

[Under Pressure]

Here is a picture of a sleeved block...



They act to reinforce the block to prevent damage from high pressure. Between sleeve and reinforced (forged) pistons and rods, your entire combustion area of your engine would be secure. But the C220 has a pretty tough block to run reasonable psi, and I dont think you would need it sleeved. But as former member Jason showed us, you would need forged rods/pistons for around 7psi, because I think thats where his gave out. However, sleeves may be something to consider if you intended psi is so high that you risk side loading. A good set for the Honda cars is around $1,000 USD, just to giv you an idea of cost.

I don't know the first think about bar pressure as I am unfamiliar w/ the metric system and too lazy to use an online conversion, but for reliability without spending a fortune, I would not take it beyond, say, 6psi. Again, I believe Jason's engine blew around 7psi before he rebuilt it with forged rods/pistons (and then his car burned up).

My stupid and cheap advice, run it for around 6psi and if you blow a piston, replace it with a beefier one...

[Ashkan's C280]

why did his car burn up? what happened?

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
why did his car burn up? what happened?

He says it was some electrical problem, and it may very well have been. But my opinion, looking at the pics from his old website that is no longer up, is that the turbo was touching the sound deadening material in the engine bay (Mosselman's first direction for install is to remove that material) and got so hot that it lit it on fire, and then the fire spread.

[boesewicht]

@ Under pressure

Thank you very much for your information.

Is it better to go with forged pistons / rods and bigger injectors when running 6 psi? Or can I leave piston /rods /injectors standard?

Do I need only those three mods (pistons, rods and injectors) additional to the mosselmann kit or is there something else?

I don't want to blow my engine!

Thanks

Edit:

Just read the other thread about the injectors. After reading VIP_MBZ answer, I ask myself if there's a standalone computer needed when I put bigger injectors in or not? Didn't understand all he wrote.

And is using injectors from C230K possible at 5 or 6 psi? Is this a good solution or not? Do I have to reprogramm anything? Or do I need that piggypack (whatever that is) thing? Please help me guys!

[Ashkan's C280]

wouldn't you make a lot more hp with forged pistons better rods, and better injectors?

[Under Pressure]

I dont really think you would need all the support mods if you just run 5-6psi. I didnt do any support mod and I ran it for 9,000 miles without ever having any problems. I suppose you can just install the kit, get it tuned, and see if you are running lean. If so, then worry about extra fueling via bigger or additional injectors.


I think your stock pistons/cylinder should be able to handle up to 6psi, thats pretty low pressure. My boost crept beyond these numbers in the cold Ohio winter and never blew (and I had stock pistons/rods). BUt then again, Jason's engine blew a piston at only around 7psi. I guess set a 6psi and a good, proper tuning should be okay to run 6psi. I believe the kit is set for 5.5psi so 6 psi should be okay. Mine was.

Also, Koolvin, who purchased my kit from me, runs his at about 5.5 psi and his shop decided it would be better to add a fifth injector since it was running lean. Maybe thats the only modification you will need to do is to add extra fuel. You know, the previous generation Nissan Xterra was available supercharged, and the Xterra's supercharger only made 3psi, yet the engineers at Nissan found it necessary to add extra fueling for it. So maybe you should add extra fueling for yours.

[boesewicht]

To get extra fuel, do I have to get BIGGER injectors or EXTRA injectors?

How much injectors does my engine have? And how much can I install?

Mosselmann says 0.4 bar, is that the same like 4psi? If not, how much bar is 6 psi?


Thanks again

Alex.

[Denlasoul]

1bar = 14,5psi
0,4bar = 5,8psi
6psi = 0,41bar

[boesewicht]

@ denlasoul

WOW! Never thought that 6 psi are only 0,41 bar ! I thought about running 0,6 bar when Mosselmann adjusts the stock trim at 0,4 bar... A friend of mine has a Porsche 993 Bi-Turbo RSR, he's running 1,2 Bar. And another friend is running 0,8 Bar in a VW Golf 3 VR6 custom turbo set up. So 0,4 bar sound svery low to me...?!

How much power will I get out of that Mosselmann kit in combination with my full exhaust system, bigger injectors and running 6 psi?

What do I need to run 0,6 bar ( 9 psi ) ? Forged pistons, rods, injectors, lower compression, anything else?

Jstrat, please join in with some details. How much hp can I get out a turbo setup and what modifications do i have to make to run a stable engine?

[Under Pressure]

My modified Subaru WRX runs 1.1bar

My friend has a Toyota Supra that runs 2 bar

Anyway, if you want to run 0.6bar, and that is 9psi, then you will definitely have to do supporting modifications. You will have to get forged pistons/rods. Also, you will have to get extra fueling, either through better injectors or by getting additional injector. These are musts, and are the basic support mods when someone turbos a non-turbo car and runs more than low boost.

I am not too sure how much the transmission will handle, that is something to consider. I believe the stock block should be able to handle 0.6bar without needing to be sleeved, but I am not an expert so that is not a gaurantee. But yes, you will have to do forged pistons/rods for that kind of boost, and will need more fueling (the Vortech FMU that comes with the MOsselman kit will not be able to save you here).

Thats about the only things I can think of. I believe the plastic Bosch blow off vale that comes with the MOsselman kit will be able to handle that kind of boost, so no need to get another one.