...Custom Intake Manifold beginning PICS...

[Pagz]

Recieved the flange for the new Intake manifold today,fits great!...it was machined from a solid piece of alloy,and took some serious time to complete,havent coped the bill yet but it will be ugly for sure...
the manifold will be mated to a 70mm Skunk TB which will do away with the smaller DBW unit...though initially i will run the DBW until the engine has been run in before swapping to the MoTeC ECU and Skunk TB...


Here you can see we have retained the OEM rubber gaskets...as we can always add a thermal gasket later if it needs it...
the crank vents have been machined only into the outer ports so will change it to link both(like OEM)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_224_full.jpg

The upstands where machined so the 50mm runners could be welded neatly and avoid warpage of the flange...
the ports are yet to be tappered from the upstand to the flange mating surface to suit the 3mm runner pipe wall and the injector holes need a tapper to suit the o-rings.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_225_full.jpg

heres the flange mounted on the head with the injectors,still debating replacing the fuel rail for added flexability with the fuel lines...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_226_full.jpg


Theres also a possibility i could replicate this manifold again for alot less in the future as we saved the machining co-ordinates which took a huge amount of time to achieve!...

Paul

[jstrat85]

Paul that shit looks crazy! I like it alot. when I come back from Greece I would probably do the cams and the rods to bring up more boost! I have another photo shoot today for a magazine called rides. keep up the good work!

john

[Under Pressure]

Very very nice.

[rollinrealbig]

DAMN! that is sick! :cool:

[alphanumeric]

lol, you are out of control!!!! very nice though.. it will look alot cleaner then the stock plastic manifold. (plastic lol)

jstrat.. does someone make cams for the 2.3 motor? or are you talking about a custom job with the stock cams?

[rollinrealbig]

IMO id leave the fuel rail just have it polished, fuel lines wont last as long as a rail right ? maybe have the fuel rail anodized blue to match some of the parts under your hood!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by jstrat85
Paul that shit looks crazy! I like it alot. when I come back from Greece I would probably do the cams and the rods to bring up more boost! I have another photo shoot today for a magazine called rides. keep up the good work!

john

Thanks John!
Thats great,so we'll hopfully be seeing an artical soon??
I'll be interested in what you do with the rods,and if they are a similar item to what i have so keep me posted!...
I also was Due for a NZperfomance car photo shoot a few months back but pulled out to have the new exhaust manifold and 36 sides fitted....but somwhere inbetween it got alittle crazy!...

I pick up the NZPC mag this month and there is a letter from a gurl asking why there isnt more Euro cars like the C-class and E36 in the magazine as she beleives they make up more of our inport scene these days!,there answer was not so many people make performance out of these cars,but rather use them for show...and the mag is about a good combo of both...at the end the editor did say he had a couple on the cards lol yeh if i ever get mine going!!!
laters

Paul

[Pagz]

Thanks all,should be off to have the rest of the manifold made shortly,just waiting on these pistons!,thought they would have been here by now!...hmmm nothing unusual i guess!

Hey rollin,i ment replace the fuel rail with a custom unit,you can buy fuel rail and chop it off to suit length...that would do away with the ugly cast item and allow for neater fuel lines to be attached to the ends of the rail...will see what left in the kitty after the engines together;)

[SLAMMED_C]

DUDE!!.. that is fukin awesome. the guys that made that did an awesome job.
you say they kept the machining co-ordinates?!!!!... hmmmmmmmm!
cant wait to see it complete.
I hope now after your experience with the guys that made your first turbo header.. you are much MUCH wiser to who is bllshitting and who is giving honest real quotes for prices.. I hope this intake manifold isnt too expensive!! or at least doesnt increase in price from his quote.
this shop really did an amazing job.. nice machine work.
come on, get more parts!!!.. get those pistons!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
DUDE!!.. that is fukin awesome. the guys that made that did an awesome job.
you say they kept the machining co-ordinates?!!!!... hmmmmmmmm!
cant wait to see it complete.
I hope now after your experience with the guys that made your first turbo header.. you are much MUCH wiser to who is bllshitting and who is giving honest real quotes for prices.. I hope this intake manifold isnt too expensive!! or at least doesnt increase in price from his quote.
this shop really did an amazing job.. nice machine work.
come on, get more parts!!!.. get those pistons!!

Thought you'd like that;)
yea i requested they keep the co-ordinates so the digital milling equipment can produce another one more cost effective next time....and if someone from overseas wanted one i could make it easily,and as our dollar is shit against pretty much everyone elses in the world its not such a bad idea!...it will all depend on how we go about the plenum and runners though....
it was pretty much inpossible to give a quote for this job,but thankfully i know these guys well,they have done tones for me before,mostly for a box of beer!...they also do my corperations work!...

lol im trying to get the parts asap...damn pistons should have been here!!...today i called into a shot-peening guru and he decided there was little chance of warpage due to the rods strong design...he said he'll have them done by late sunday for $100...he will crack test them and remove any inperfections also
sounded like a deal!

[c280nz]

:eek:
holy custom paul.

you dont get much nicer than machined outa billit.
were you that worried about the bad flow of you old maniflod this was deamed necessary?
but dang thats a nice peice of work!!!
i would love to see your 23t in nzpc, but there right most euros are all show and no go, very few of your calibre

i have so many nice pictures of you modifications you have now earned a folder of your own :cool:

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
:eek:
holy custom paul.

you dont get much nicer than machined outa billit.
were you that worried about the bad flow of you old maniflod this was deamed necessary?
but dang thats a nice peice of work!!!
i would love to see your 23t in nzpc, but there right most euros are all show and no go, very few of your calibre

i have so many nice pictures of you modifications you have now earned a folder of your own :cool:

hi Logan,
Thanks man,there were a few valid points that made it sort of necessary;)
1:the OEM TB is small(~56mm),and is the biggest restriction in the intake...the only option is to replace the TB and Manifold to suit a bigger one...
2:For the MoTeC ECU to run the DBW,i would need a $800 option code...
3:its gona look waaaaay better than the plastic item!

Im looking forward to hopfully getting it in!,iv only seen one other heavly moded 202 in a mag before..it was an SC'd 180 with full kit and interior...it was like 8 years ago!

My own folder!:cool: ....have you had any more thoughts on doing your engine?

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Thought you'd like that;)
yea i requested they keep the co-ordinates so the digital milling equipment can produce another one more cost effective next time....and if someone from overseas wanted one i could make it easily,and as our dollar is shit against pretty much everyone elses in the world its not such a bad idea!...it will all depend on how we go about the plenum and runners though....
it was pretty much inpossible to give a quote for this job,but thankfully i know these guys well,they have done tones for me before,mostly for a box of beer!...they also do my corperations work!...

lol im trying to get the parts asap...damn pistons should have been here!!...today i called into a shot-peening guru and he decided there was little chance of warpage due to the rods strong design...he said he'll have them done by late sunday for $100...he will crack test them and remove any inperfections also
sounded like a deal!
glad you saved the co-ordinates!!.. I could be very interested depending on pice and the final product.. have to see it with the intake runners too!
damn!!.. for a box of beer!!.. pretty good trade off.. well for you!

nice.. I dsaw the pics of the shot peened rods.. looks good mang.
just gotta get them pistions back now!.. wait wait wait!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
glad you saved the co-ordinates!!.. I could be very interested depending on pice and the final product.. have to see it with the intake runners too!
damn!!.. for a box of beer!!.. pretty good trade off.. well for you!

nice.. I dsaw the pics of the shot peened rods.. looks good mang.
just gotta get them pistions back now!.. wait wait wait!!

we will see!,i still dont know the cost...got the flange back again today with the final changes...all looks good!...

and the pistons are ready for shipping:cool: :cool: :cool: ...so hopfully late this week early next week i should have them!!
will keep you posted!...laters

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
we will see!,i still dont know the cost...got the flange back again today with the final changes...all looks good!...

and the pistons are ready for shipping:cool: :cool: :cool: ...so hopfully late this week early next week i should have them!!
will keep you posted!...laters
any more pics to share?!!
nice.. hopefully the pistons wont be too long coming back to you.
PICS.. PICS.. PICS!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
any more pics to share?!!
nice.. hopefully the pistons wont be too long coming back to you.
PICS.. PICS.. PICS!!

hahahaa ok ok more pics shortly;)
im port matching the flange at the moment...the holes are centred perfectly,but the flange is a 1/2 mill smaller to allow for inperfections in the head ports,once again got the die grinder out,makes a nice job too!

theres somthing alittle odd with the pistons...they havent charged my CC yet...which means it hasnt left there hands...hmmm:tired:

[K_Sport Driver]

i hate you for being so awesome.

[trymonlam]

wow...paul, wow...
let's see the bill.

[Pagz]

Cheers Dev...i think:cheek:

I still havent got the bill...maybe they'll forget;)

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
hahahaa ok ok more pics shortly;)
im port matching the flange at the moment...the holes are centred perfectly,but the flange is a 1/2 mill smaller to allow for inperfections in the head ports,once again got the die grinder out,makes a nice job too!

theres somthing alittle odd with the pistons...they havent charged my CC yet...which means it hasnt left there hands...hmmm:tired:
nice nice.. port matching is always good!... need pics of the intake manifold!!.....
well thats no good bro.. better see whats up and hope them pistons are on the way.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
nice nice.. port matching is always good!... need pics of the intake manifold!!.....
well thats no good bro.. better see whats up and hope them pistons are on the way.

Yip will get pics of the manifold as soon as its underway...word is they use some nice bell mouths also!...
finished port matching and tappering to suit the 50mm runners..
the OEM plastic item doesnt match to well either...its kinda oval as appose to the round ports..no suprises there though!...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_229_full.jpg

Took quite alot of material out with the grinder...like 10 hours of grinding LOL(with small flapy sandpaper thing)...came out real nice though...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_230_full.jpg
compared with the old wall thickess...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_226_full.jpg


well...still no word on the pistons yet :hmmm:

[SLAMMED_C]

my god... 10 hours of grinding!!
nice job dude.. that is a hell of alot of material you removed!!
bell mouths huh.. gotta see!

[Pagz]

for you Ross!
heres the beginnings of that fuel rail,need to make mounts and weld them on this week...still thinking about anodizing the whole rail the same colour as the blue nuts shown there...

you must be loosen sleep over the KW by now he he he


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_231_full.jpg

Paul

[rollinrealbig]

anodized ya ya!!

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
for you Ross!
heres the beginnings of that fuel rail,need to make mounts and weld them on this week...still thinking about anodizing the whole rail the same colour as the blue nuts shown there...
you must be loosen sleep over the KW by now he he he
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_231_full.jpg
Paul

DUDE!!! sweet! that looks awesome. I say if your colour theme is blue for the engine.. get it anodized
Who made that?.. they did a great job.

Bad news.. I found out that the KW kit is a really new item so they dont even have any in the u.s!.. so it has to come from germany, then go to the shop in the states.. then come to me.. so looking at maybe next week they will get it in the states.. and another week till I get it.. :(
Im dealing with K1 Motorsports.. so far the guy Im dealing with has been really good.. not his fault at all that the coil over kit is special ordered form germany.. just have to wait longer is all.

[Pagz]

the rail comes in meter lengths so can be chopped off to suit...then you drill holes for the injectors and weld fittings to the ends...instant fuel rail!:cool:

damn!...well at least it is still coming!!!...two weeks isnt too bad...its likley to be three+ though lol...

damn when did i order those pistons...like 6 weeks ago,last week he said they had to go back to the coaters as he wasnt happy with the finish ....my CC has been debited now he said they should be there in 5-7 days last tuesday...they better be here this week or ima freak out!!.......

well i guess thats two votes for blue....blue it is:)

[Pagz]

Heres a better pic of the rail,the fittings where once blue but we have to remove the anodizing to weld them on!
have also just been using the coffee table and my die grinder to bring the rail closer to the supports so that OEM angle specs on the injectors remain similar...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_232_full.jpg

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
the rail comes in meter lengths so can be chopped off to suit...then you drill holes for the injectors and weld fittings to the ends...instant fuel rail!:cool:

damn!...well at least it is still coming!!!...two weeks isnt too bad...its likley to be three+ though lol...

damn when did i order those pistons...like 6 weeks ago,last week he said they had to go back to the coaters as he wasnt happy with the finish ....my CC has been debited now he said they should be there in 5-7 days last tuesday...they better be here this week or ima freak out!!.......

well i guess thats two votes for blue....blue it is:)
I see.. is all "custom" fuel rail done this way too?.. just buy it by the meter?
looks really trick.
yeh I know.. its still coming!!.. hey!!.. dont jinx it mang!.. dont say 3 weeks!!
I need that KW kit ASAP!!
well at least yo uknow the pistons are still around!!.. and on their way soon by the sounds of things.. CC charged means the shit is on its way!
blue it is dude.. I see.. thats a nice pic.. so you put those grooves into the rail so it sits against the spacers on the manifold better. how will the injectors stay in.. the stock one has clips on the one half of the fuel rail I think.. will yours be held in place from the pressure of the mounting brackets?

[rollinrealbig]

so the fuel rail looks cool! but what is the purpose of it ? add anything ?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
I see.. is all "custom" fuel rail done this way too?.. just buy it by the meter?
looks really trick.
yeh I know.. its still coming!!.. hey!!.. dont jinx it mang!.. dont say 3 weeks!!
I need that KW kit ASAP!!
well at least yo uknow the pistons are still around!!.. and on their way soon by the sounds of things.. CC charged means the shit is on its way!
blue it is dude.. I see.. thats a nice pic.. so you put those grooves into the rail so it sits against the spacers on the manifold better. how will the injectors stay in.. the stock one has clips on the one half of the fuel rail I think.. will yours be held in place from the pressure of the mounting brackets?

Yip most of the time it is...i think Holly make some also in anodized blue and plain...theres no point in having it blue before maching it though!...i got mine locally for $190 per meter,but i only got around 320mm,plus 15% discount...so not tooo bad!

ha ha ha ok ok im thinking two weeks....twwwwo weeeks:D

Yip the grooves bring it in nice and close to the spacers!
good spotting!,Yes the new rail doesnt retain the injectors like the OEM rail...so the spacers will take the load!,they should take it easily as there bolted to the head...the injectors are a great fit and theres very little to no movement when there in place!...so hopfully it works ok...im fairly sure most performance systems are like this!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
so the fuel rail looks cool! but what is the purpose of it ? add anything ?


for the looks;)...

actually i did it because the OEM unit has all those bulky bits hunging off it that get in the way of my new intake runners!...plus you dont get the pressure drop from all those nasty angles inside the rail...you will understand next time you pear inside yours!...and less pressure drop means more efficiency and less load on you pump...thus less load on your alternator and .00001 hp gain:D

[Pagz]

i may still be able to retain them from the rail if need be by tapping some retaining fittings into the rail...might do that yet hmmm

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Yip most of the time it is...i think Holly make some also in anodized blue and plain...theres no point in having it blue before maching it though!...i got mine locally for $190 per meter,but i only got around 320mm,plus 15% discount...so not tooo bad!

ha ha ha ok ok im thinking two weeks....twwwwo weeeks:D

Yip the grooves bring it in nice and close to the spacers!
good spotting!,Yes the new rail doesnt retain the injectors like the OEM rail...so the spacers will take the load!,they should take it easily as there bolted to the head...the injectors are a great fit and theres very little to no movement when there in place!...so hopfully it works ok...im fairly sure most performance systems are like this!
exactly.. its just gonna get all scratched up while making it, no point in having it anodized before its actually permanently on the car!
wow!!.. $190 per meter!!! fuk me!!
yeh.. thats right Paul... 2 weeks.. right.. 2 WEEKS!
what can I say!!.. I can notice things sometimes!! figured.. just the load on the fuel rail from the mounting points. well it looks trick man. keeping stock injectors?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
exactly.. its just gonna get all scratched up while making it, no point in having it anodized before its actually permanently on the car!
wow!!.. $190 per meter!!! fuk me!!
yeh.. thats right Paul... 2 weeks.. right.. 2 WEEKS!
what can I say!!.. I can notice things sometimes!! figured.. just the load on the fuel rail from the mounting points. well it looks trick man. keeping stock injectors?

also may need to stop the injectors from turning,so may end up retaining them now....hmmm mooore work lol

I think we will use the OEM injectors until we have the Motec ecu running...after that they will definitly need upsizing!!!

[rollinrealbig]

so out of the blue, ive talked to someone who installed larger cc injectors on his w203, he said he felt a nice gain from it.

im guessing that eats more gas right ? and gains ... what gain are we talking about ? ... I dnt think those injectors are a cheap mod, couple hundred am I correct ?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
so out of the blue, ive talked to someone who installed larger cc injectors on his w203, he said he felt a nice gain from it.

im guessing that eats more gas right ? and gains ... what gain are we talking about ? ... I dnt think those injectors are a cheap mod, couple hundred am I correct ?

hmmm interesting Q man...i think Jnenad once discussed it somewhere...i dont understand it fully...as i thought it would only work if the current system was conservitive under open loop conditions ...another words heavy load/WOT conditions...

so installing larger injectors would shift the A/F ratio under open loop closer to a more power producing A/F ratio...i would think this could be achievable with a mild increase in fuel pressure rather than new injectors?...anyone else comment??

[spm 16v benz]

Hey 23K

I am new to this forum, I was so inspired by your turbo conversion that I decided to start one for myself. Although I don't own a w202 I have many w201(190e's). So I decided with one of them to put a w202 kompressor engine into one then turbo it. Have you got a price yet on how much it cost you for that flange?

[ncd]

hey 23k, I think I might have to follow you and loose the m45 all togther, if i can ever come close to your godlyness ha ha.

I dont know if it was the same for you but, I think its mater of

1) space economics in engine bay
2) simplication of the installation
3) I just feel that ,if the charger is going to cause so much rattleing and drama after a few thous miles ... it cant be worth it for the compexity that would be added.. trying to keep them both.
4) surely the whole car is lighter with out the m45
5) engine_stress--; (one less belt/pully to turn)






not to mention you can sell your m45 on..

I gues the fact that its not there does not affect the the rest of the belts..??

I cant say Ive ever seen the post where you talk about your headers and such??

[Pagz]

Originally posted by ncd
hey 23k, I think I might have to follow you and loose the m45 all togther, if i can ever come close to your godlyness ha ha.

I dont know if it was the same for you but, I think its mater of

1) space economics in engine bay
2) simplication of the installation
3) I just feel that ,if the charger is going to cause so much rattleing and drama after a few thous miles ... it cant be worth it for the compexity that would be added.. trying to keep them both.
4) surely the whole car is lighter with out the m45
5) engine_stress--; (one less belt/pully to turn)






not to mention you can sell your m45 on..

I gues the fact that its not there does not affect the the rest of the belts..??

I cant say Ive ever seen the post where you talk about your headers and such??



ha ha ha you dare to follow in my foot steps:D....

Space is definatly an issue if you were to keep the m45,as im right hand drive i have the steering box there also!...
Keeping it simple is a good way to go...you will have plenty of other more important issues that will take your time...like ECU tuning,exhaust and header work,IC?,intake,bypass,pipe tappings,oil feed,oil return,water feed(maybe)

Thats assume you do go ahead with the conversion...
when you remove the SC....you will also remove the whole cast braket that holds the alternator and tensioner as well,it will need to be replaced with the N/A engines braket which shifts the alternator up higher(remember to get the matching bolts as there all diferent lengths as apose to the SC braket bolts)
you will need a new alternator pully,as the SC system one is smaller,and also the N/A belt.
It is up to you weather or not you replace the crank pully with the N/A model version,which is effectivly the exact same pully but without the extra SC pully attached...you can easily have the SC pully machined off it...thats what i did...took my guys all of three minutes when i randomly called in after work one night...(i also have the N/A pully which i used after i had the issue of the first one coming loose due to me not tightening it to 300Nm)

At this stage the car will be pretty much out of action...you could however slap a filter over the intake to the IC and carfully drive the car in N/A form to the fabricators...it should run fine.

Before or if you decide to attemp this project,go and see a company who tunes Euro cars and see if your ECU is reprogramable,mine wasnt so iv had to go for a full stand alone system which really takes cost to another level.

Hmm theres a thread here somewhere on the header work...heres some old pics,this manifold has now been cut up and thrown away because of the clearance issues...
also I think the heat wrap does more harm than good by keeping too much head it...it maybe best just to have the header ceramic coated and wrap just the down pipe etc.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_164_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_174_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_173_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_148_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_149_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_142_full.jpg



Pretty tight up in there with the steering box!

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_144_full.jpg

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
Hey 23K

I am new to this forum, I was so inspired by your turbo conversion that I decided to start one for myself. Although I don't own a w202 I have many w201(190e's). So I decided with one of them to put a w202 kompressor engine into one then turbo it. Have you got a price yet on how much it cost you for that flange?

Hey,
...putting the M111K engine in sounds interesting!...why not turbo what you already have?

The intake manifold flange cost me $1200NZD,it should have been $2025NZD but knew the guys so got a great deal...took them alot of time to make it!...no easy task thats for sure!

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_244_full.jpg

[spm 16v benz]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey,
...putting the M111K engine in sounds interesting!...why not turbo what you already have?

The intake manifold flange cost me $1200NZD,it should have been $2025NZD but knew the guys so got a great deal...took them alot of time to make it!...no easy task thats for sure!

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_244_full.jpg


I could turbo what I already have, but its only a 2.3 4cyl SOHC. It would take alot more work because the engine still runs the KE system which cannot be adjusted for turbo specs and has no fuel rail. I would also have to compelety basically build everything up from the ground and change the internals. I then thought about using a 2.3 16v cosworth engine but it would be exactly the same but with a DOHC engine.

So after looking at the kompressor engine it seems the most logical, because I don't have to change the internals unless I am going for serious horsepower(maybe some fordgesdown the line). It has the fuel system already setup, so basically all I need to do is fabricate a exhaust and inlet manifolds then get a computer and loom but I think I know what I am goin to use.

Could you find out how much the guys who made the flange for you or do you have them, the machining co-ordinates?

[NEA-4311]

Now thats what I call tuning... Love the result of your exaust system dude, my god, how much money have u spent on this? Money well spent, how many HPs is it gonna be about?

[ncd]

23k you rock man.. I dont like to put it into how much have you spent, seeing the quality of your installation Its close to factory standard, how much would you say your 202 is worth after it all :D

[omeyhomey]

hey 23K,


awesome exhaust setup but PLEASE for the love of god replace that junk glasspack resonator which a 22" magnaflow resonator it will sound 1000 times better (I speak from experience). It would be a shame to ruine such a good exhaust system with a crummy sounding resonator. just a suggestion

[Pagz]

Hey,

NEA-4311,
Thanks dude...Yer i stopped counting along time ago for good reason lol...if i were to tell you where i stopped at you would freak for sure:D...not sure how much hp she will produce we will see when the new setup is running somtime in the new year.

ncd,
thanks...lol prolly less than a stock 230K:D


omeyhomey,
haha ok heres the story back when i had a mercedes.......my first ever experimental exhaust was a 2.5" one resonator and twin straight through muffs out the rear...needless to say it was insane loud.
next mod was to install a second resonator...it helped but was still to loud...then i found the brand new AMG muff at a local dealership...800NZD was hella cheap because the customer who bought it in didnt take it ...so i had it welded on and bam quiet and smooth....PERFECT.
then we did the turbo install,i couldnt decide on how we were going to do a high flow 3" muffler that was resonably quiet...so we just welded the C36 muff up,the resonator in the middle is SS packed;)

Not so long ago i used 43853423423 100mm cuting blades and took the C36 muffler apart to modify for a 3" system,which turned out to be a VERY bad idea....not only was it packed with glass...but was pretty much impossible to convert to a higher flow design...so its currently rotting in my back yard.

The new idea was to take a big risk and completely redesign the muffler....which will be a 3" in and twin 2" out with a "loop" design inside,another benifit of doing this was so i could choose where the exhaust enters the rear of the muffler.i will also fill it with as much perferated material and SS packing as i can to keep noise supressed and try for mild performance note...
as i dont do noisy exhausts anymore(have had way to many and think there far from cool)... turbo induction noise takes the cake imo;)

Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
I could turbo what I already have, but its only a 2.3 4cyl SOHC. It would take alot more work because the engine still runs the KE system which cannot be adjusted for turbo specs and has no fuel rail. I would also have to compelety basically build everything up from the ground and change the internals. I then thought about using a 2.3 16v cosworth engine but it would be exactly the same but with a DOHC engine.

So after looking at the kompressor engine it seems the most logical, because I don't have to change the internals unless I am going for serious horsepower(maybe some fordgesdown the line). It has the fuel system already setup, so basically all I need to do is fabricate a exhaust and inlet manifolds then get a computer and loom but I think I know what I am goin to use.

Could you find out how much the guys who made the flange for you or do you have them, the machining co-ordinates?


Hey,
i see i see,thats a huge undertaking to get a M111K and then put it in your 190!...i would have thought buying a nice 230K would have been cheaper?

yer the guys did save the co-ords but it can only be used on there machine...also the flange has been modified by myself to take a 50mm 3mm wall(which was about 5mm) alloy pipe...as you can see from the older and newer pics...this took about 10 hours with the dremel for a nice finish;)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_229_full.jpg

Because the m111k used DBW iv also swapped out that unit for a direct wire TB...thats also alittle bigger as the OEM unit is about 57 where the new Skunk2 racing one is 68;)...this usually style is better to tune with the Motec ecu having TPS etc

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_243_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_241_full.jpg

Paul

[c280nz]

paul do you have any more pictures of cool shit just to post up, every time i read updates on your posts theres more bling ass pieces sitting around :D
i bet your house is like a performance car shop

[trymonlam]

he's got a really weird looking fish sculpture.

[omeyhomey]

Hey 23K,

Couldn't u use a Piggy back like SAFC 2 to also use a big bore throttle body, it can do throttle by wire as well can't it? SAFCs are so much easier to tune than a all out Tec3 ECU or etc. just an idea.

[c280nz]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
Hey 23K,

Couldn't u use a Piggy back like SAFC 2 to also use a big bore throttle body, it can do throttle by wire as well can't it? SAFCs are so much easier to tune than a all out Tec3 ECU or etc. just an idea.
i think the bigger issue is the lack ignition timing variation in our cars just using the piggyback you describe???
altho i hope to just use one of those on my planed low boost setup

correct me if im wrong tho

[omeyhomey]

will the skunk 2 throttle body fit though (by fit i mean bolt patterns identical?)

[Pagz]

.

[Pagz]

Hey,

Logan,
lol yer must say theres a few parts lying around thats for sure:D,kinda scary when you add up how much it all cost and hope its still there when you get home from work :Paranoid:

omeyhomey,
For what we have done to the engine i dont think the AFC will cut it,the motec unit does everything we need and more...and theres plenty of experiance in tuning here,i also plan to learn alot of the on road tuning myself.
have gone big on this project...so will go big on the ECU work also.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_227_full.jpg

got M400 universal wiring loom,MAP,air temp,collant temp and ignition moduals...the coils may or may not be used now,as the OEM items are just so much more tidy.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_259_full.jpg

I had a 12mm alloy flange milled to the exact shape of the mounting face for the Skunk TB,this will be welded to the new alloy intake plenum.


trymonlam,
hahaha,yer thats back at the parents place!.

[omeyhomey]

hehehe,

wow you have balls. good luck. im interested to see the results you get.

[ncd]

wow.. I bet your happy to see the back of the benz maf sensor! :D

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
Hey 23K,

Couldn't u use a Piggy back like SAFC 2 to also use a big bore throttle body, it can do throttle by wire as well can't it? SAFCs are so much easier to tune than a all out Tec3 ECU or etc. just an idea.

After a serious amount of modifications, piggybacks just don't cut it. Not only is there the aforementioned timing control issue, you are still fighting with an ECU who deep down wants to run a stock-like configuration. You can fool the sensors into giving the ECU different input, but at the end of the day, the ECU is still trying to learn and return back to stock.

For example, if you run 20% higher flowing injectors on the ECU, it's easy to just tell the ECU that it's getting 20% less air using the AFC, right? But at 20% less air, the ECU also has less timing retard (since on an AFM-based boosted car, timing varies based on input air flow). Even on top of that anomaly, it is still trying to correct the mixture back to stock based on o2 sensor reading, which may not be optimal for the highly modified condition. And then on top of that, if you ever exceed ~80% throttle, it disregards the learned map and goes into a safety mode, based on stock maps. Also if you should ever disconnect the battery, this whole learning process gets reset. If your setup should REQUIRE this amount of correction or else it will detonate, you are putting your entire thousands of dollars worth of engine investment on faith that the ECU and piggy back will get along in the quickest amount of time possible, and won't ever disagree.

If you are tripling the factory boost and increasing the fuel system by more than 50%, use a standalone or risk blowing up your project.

Been there done that.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

wow.. I havent been in here in a while!!. lookin good Paul.
any new bits of kit yet? got the intake manifold all finished or the new turbo header done?

[Pagz]

Omeyhomey,
Thanks,i cant wait to get it running!!

ncd,
yeh man wont be fitting one of those again thats for sure!;)

VIP,
hmmm yer definatly stand alone for this system,i think afc is more suited to smaller changes like exhaust,intake etc


Ross,
where the hell you been?...lol
not alot of goodies to show ya just yet...had a new exhaust manifold flange machined last week...so its good to go at the fabricators on the 15th of jan for the new intake and exhaust setup!

could have used the old one but id rather start fresh again...the new one is machined rather than plasma cut.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_261_full.jpg

[omeyhomey]

awesome, nice thick flange, plasma cutters really do the job. Keep it up

[ncd]

they seem slightly different in the stud pattern??

[Pagz]

Originally posted by ncd
they seem slightly different in the stud pattern??


if you flip one round you find there very similar;)...and if you look even closer the new one has smaller holes,which i will be enlargening!

also the top one is plasma cut which is alot cheaper but not as nice as the new machined one!

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Omeyhomey,
Thanks,i cant wait to get it running!!

ncd,
yeh man wont be fitting one of those again thats for sure!;)

VIP,
hmmm yer definatly stand alone for this system,i think afc is more suited to smaller changes like exhaust,intake etc


Ross,
where the hell you been?...lol
not alot of goodies to show ya just yet...had a new exhaust manifold flange machined last week...so its good to go at the fabricators on the 15th of jan for the new intake and exhaust setup!

could have used the old one but id rather start fresh again...the new one is machined rather than plasma cut.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_261_full.jpg

dude!!... Ive been here!! Ive been waiting for an email form you!!.. unless you never got the one from me from like at least a month ago!!!
lookin good mang.. so decided on the log manifold for the turbo still?
nice looking flanges there.. the machined ones are nice.

[omeyhomey]

ah ok, well i like the lower one better, if that's the machined one then it looks better. can't wait to see the results.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
dude!!... Ive been here!! Ive been waiting for an email form you!!.. unless you never got the one from me from like at least a month ago!!!
lookin good mang.. so decided on the log manifold for the turbo still?
nice looking flanges there.. the machined ones are nice.

Found it....lol sorry man!!!,expect a reply very shortly;)
Im not sure how the new manifold will go just yet,iv made some changes to the turbo,i purchased a .64 T3 style turbine housing with 4-bolt to 3" v-band discharge...this housing is made for external wastgates so is not welded up like in my first one(.86 T25)...it also gives me around 25mm more room for the down pipe due to it being more compact...the down side however is that it slightly bigger in diameter...which takes alittle more of that much needed room for engine movement under power...

Iv got the turbo hunging in the bay atm(lots of cable ties),it would be nice to have it bottom mount but i cant see it happening,the rooms just not there due to that damn steering box,so may have to be top mount again but alot lower down!..
if it has to be log style it will be...but these guys are pretty good..alot better than the last...they may be able to do a tight 4into1 im hoping...HOPE:D

[Pagz]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
ah ok, well i like the lower one better, if that's the machined one then it looks better. can't wait to see the results.
yer I think the plasma cut one could have been as good as the machined one if they had have spent a little more time on it!...though it still did the job and probly cost half what the machined cost!

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Found it....lol sorry man!!!,expect a reply very shortly;)
Im not sure how the new manifold will go just yet,iv made some changes to the turbo,i purchased a .64 T3 style turbine housing with 4-bolt to 3" v-band discharge...this housing is made for external wastgates so is not welded up like in my first one(.86 T25)...it also gives me around 25mm more room for the down pipe due to it being more compact...the down side however is that it slightly bigger in diameter...which takes alittle more of that much needed room for engine movement under power...

Iv got the turbo hunging in the bay atm(lots of cable ties),it would be nice to have it bottom mount but i cant see it happening,the rooms just not there due to that damn steering box,so may have to be top mount again but alot lower down!..
if it has to be log style it will be...but these guys are pretty good..alot better than the last...they may be able to do a tight 4into1 im hoping...HOPE:D
lol.. I was wondering why no reply!.. just thought you were busy with work and all. no worries mang. whenever ya can.
well the extra room for the down pipe is great.. but you lose top room.. so its kinda give some and take a lot more!! I dont think you will ever easily solve your issues.. unless you convert to left hand drive!!
well hopefully you can figure it out and have a good balance to comprimise the room needed at the exhaust side and top side for engine movement.
the log one as you said earlier was good on a 1000hp BMW!!.. so Im sure it should do fine on your car.. just wont look as pretty as the turbo header.. but hopefully the new shop can do a nice 4 into 1.. looks the best.. and Im sure performs the best too.

[spm 16v benz]

Hi 23K

Did you ever film the turbo engine running?? if you did do you have the vid somewhere?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
lol.. I was wondering why no reply!.. just thought you were busy with work and all. no worries mang. whenever ya can.
well the extra room for the down pipe is great.. but you lose top room.. so its kinda give some and take a lot more!! I dont think you will ever easily solve your issues.. unless you convert to left hand drive!!
well hopefully you can figure it out and have a good balance to comprimise the room needed at the exhaust side and top side for engine movement.
the log one as you said earlier was good on a 1000hp BMW!!.. so Im sure it should do fine on your car.. just wont look as pretty as the turbo header.. but hopefully the new shop can do a nice 4 into 1.. looks the best.. and Im sure performs the best too.

Actually the last two months have been insane...has been hard finding time for the car...and thats high priority these days:D...back yard looks like a forest!.
Convert to left hand lol!=)
Also having the extra 25mm allows the turbo to sit further back,and will hopfully allow it to sit behind where the head sticks out the sides up front....this gives an extra 25mm of side clearance,enough to keep the turbo from punching the side of the bay.
yeh that 1000hp beamer is wicked,goes to show you dont need a flash manifold for the desired results...but i know it helps!.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
Hi 23K

Did you ever film the turbo engine running?? if you did do you have the vid somewhere?


Hey,
I never got around to it...the plan was to film it on the dyno,but after i ran into a few problems like the cut out problem in close loop part throttle conditions it was all over...
i did do around 200km's on the turbo setup as it didnt always cut out and tested mixtures in open loop condtions seemed to be safe but soon after that i had that issue with the crank pully coming loose because i didnt torque it to 300Nm,this broke the key and damaged the sprocket,so the engine came out for inspection,while it was out there was no better time to do pistons/head work etc...which after taking 6 months has left me with a nervous twitch.

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Actually the last two months have been insane...has been hard finding time for the car...and thats high priority these days:D...back yard looks like a forest!.
Convert to left hand lol!=)
Also having the extra 25mm allows the turbo to sit further back,and will hopfully allow it to sit behind where the head sticks out the sides up front....this gives an extra 25mm of side clearance,enough to keep the turbo from punching the side of the bay.
yeh that 1000hp beamer is wicked,goes to show you dont need a flash manifold for the desired results...but i know it helps!.
Ill bet.. you must be itching to get that car done!!
or import a left hand drive and transfer all the bits to the left hand drive car!!!
well hopefully the space will alow the turbo more room.. have to keep fingers crossed!.. its all good in theory right!
exactly.. the turbo header looks nicer and I bet performs better too.. but if it comes down to it you know the log style will hold up!

[spm 16v benz]

Hey 23K,

Can you tell me when you actaully had your engine running did you ever boot it and did it hawl ass like a mf???

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
Hey 23K,

Can you tell me when you actaully had your engine running did you ever boot it and did it hawl ass like a mf???

It went alright,at ~5psi it was hard to tell if it went any better than the SC setup.
when we are on the dyno next i will do a 5.5psi run to compare with the stock dyno run i did a few years back.

[benzboy]

Hey Paul

Hows the project going?

Any idea when it will be finished?

Any chance it will be finished by 17th of Feb, Eurosport are having a dyno day then, will be redynoing the merc, and lots of other cars, even if you car isnt finished you should definitly come down.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzboy
Hey Paul

Hows the project going?

Any idea when it will be finished?

Any chance it will be finished by 17th of Feb, Eurosport are having a dyno day then, will be redynoing the merc, and lots of other cars, even if you car isnt finished you should definitly come down.


Hey Tom,
things are happening,i ship it to the fabricators tomorrow morning,if only i could be so lucky as to have it done by the 17th of feb!!...hard to say but its likly to take another 3 months before we see the dyno...theres a huge to do list.
Ill pencil the 17th in for a trip to torque perfromance for a looky.

[spm 16v benz]

Originally posted by 23K
It went alright,at ~5psi it was hard to tell if it went any better than the SC setup.
when we are on the dyno next i will do a 5.5psi run to compare with the stock dyno run i did a few years back.

Are you going to run it up to 1 bar or 14psi once it is running again or not? would the stock internals take 14psi of boost??

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
Are you going to run it up to 1 bar or 14psi once it is running again or not? would the stock internals take 14psi of boost??

Yes the new setup should see upwards of 1 bar if we are to clear the goals in mind

Im not sure what the stock engine will take,maybe you should drop one in with a custom ECU and see?.


In a few months i should be able to say what a stock head gasket will take;)

[spm 16v benz]

Yer thats what I plan on doing hopefully I should start that project in the next few months, I am just finishing off my other project now. It is a complete engine rebuild of a 2.5 16v cosworth engine.


Originally posted by 23K
Yes the new setup should see upwards of 1 bar if we are to clear the goals in mind

Im not sure what the stock engine will take,maybe you should drop one in with a custom ECU and see?.


In a few months i should be able to say what a stock head gasket will take;)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by spm 16v benz
Yer thats what I plan on doing hopefully I should start that project in the next few months, I am just finishing off my other project now. It is a complete engine rebuild of a 2.5 16v cosworth engine.


Nice build!,look forward to see'n how you go!

[c280nz]

paul-
as 2 ur comment in cardomain, the flwheel setup is going good! man i can light the tires up and step it out reasonably easily with a quick blip of the throttle or a light clutch tap, so responsive :)
but my new rear main seal is leaking like a siv, the bastard :(

why are you not going to change the headgasget at this time when your building your engine? do you think the standard one in your engine is pritty robust?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
paul-
as 2 ur comment in cardomain, the flwheel setup is going good! man i can light the tires up and step it out reasonably easily with a quick blip of the throttle or a light clutch tap, so responsive :)
but my new rear main seal is leaking like a siv, the bastard :(

why are you not going to change the headgasget at this time when your building your engine? do you think the standard one in your engine is pritty robust?

Nice!,just need that lsd now huh!
Yer those damn diff seals are pretty common!

I have replaced the head gasket with another OEM item because many said it would be fine for the goals in mind...but theres always that uncertainty given not many modify this engine the way we have so i would like to see how well it holds up....its really not a biggy if we have to take the head off for a custom one.
also at the end of the day i would rather test OEM parts before replaceing them( dont mention pistons=) ),because some OEM parts are very well made!(like the pistons :p )

[c280nz]

yea give the oem stuff a good test with 300hp+ you will :-)
nah the seal thats leaking is the rear main crank seal on the back of the engine :( which is a real bastard to change as you have to remove gearbox etc.
if you have to take the head off again remember to mark the cam chain tho ;)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
yea give the oem stuff a good test with 300hp+ you will :-)
nah the seal thats leaking is the rear main crank seal on the back of the engine :( which is a real bastard to change as you have to remove gearbox etc.
if you have to take the head off again remember to mark the cam chain tho ;)

Oh damn yeh thats a pain lol!!!,did you not see it when you did the flywheel?

hahaha YES....i will definately remember to do it!!,it will be me doin the work next time i think!!!