JE piston PICS....

[Pagz]

Finally got the JE forged pistons!...As always heres a few pics to keep those who are interested in the loop....


The copper colour is a ceramic coating...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_238_full.jpg



Here you can see the moly coat,thicker oil ring,contact reduction grooves and accumulator grooves(dont ask me accumulator grooves do...somthing about total combustion of the mixture)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_237_full.jpg



From the bottom you can see the different structure against OEM....the JE piston is around 30g lighter than the benz item,which does equate to a decent loss in reciprocating force!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_236_full.jpg



Pistons are off to the engine builders tomorrow..hopfully will get the engine back and in by next weekend!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_239_full.jpg


Interesting coversation for today:
-I met a guy who sevices MB and races a 5.6L 500SEC..he believed "the OEM high pressure cast piston i had would be good for upto 400hp"

-My OEM ECU is not tunable in any way...well i guess thats confirmed!

-My engine balancer was disapointed i had the rods shot peened because he believes the big ends will be warped which will require machining and thus another ballance....

quote for today:
good advise may not always be good advise!

Paul

[benzboy]

Ooooh, looks nice

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzboy
Ooooh, looks nice

hey hows tha 36?fix the faults?

[benzboy]

Will be fixed in sept, as have sold the 280, paid off credit card and large chunk of loan and such, really looking forward to fixing it, loses some of its coolness when you rock up and it has lumpy idle and sounds like a diesel :(

[Pagz]

all good...yeh man get it fixed asap!...would like to see it some time!...maybe when mines going next

[Denlasoul]

So these pistons and rods are still spec to OEM, or did you change them to get a different displacement?

[rollinrealbig]

hella nice!! keep up the good work! i cant wait to see the completed results!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
So these pistons and rods are still spec to OEM, or did you change them to get a different displacement?


we kept the same displacement!,the biggest change has been in wieght...with each new piston and pin combo being 41g lighter than the OEM items!,plus upto 8 grams on three off the rods...when i get around to it i'll calculate just how much less reciprocating force that equates to at 6000RPM...you will be suprised!...

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by 23K
we kept the same displacement!,the biggest change has been in wieght...with each new piston and pin combo being 41g lighter than the OEM items!,plus upto 8 grams on three off the rods...when i get around to it i'll calculate just how much less reciprocating force that equates to at 6000RPM...you will be suprised!...
Awesome! Waiting fo the numbers :D

[Renn 208]

definitely time to bump up the revs:D

[STATUS]

Originally posted by 23K
Finally got the JE forged pistons!...As always heres a few pics to keep those who are interested in the loop....


The copper colour is a ceramic coating...
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_238_full.jpg



Here you can see the moly coat,thicker oil ring,contact reduction grooves and accumulator grooves(dont ask me accumulator grooves do...somthing about total combustion of the mixture)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_237_full.jpg



From the bottom you can see the different structure against OEM....the JE piston is around 30g lighter than the benz item,which does equate to a decent loss in reciprocating force!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_236_full.jpg



Pistons are off to the engine builders tomorrow..hopfully will get the engine back and in by next weekend!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_239_full.jpg


Interesting coversation for today:
-I met a guy who sevices MB and races a 5.6L 500SEC..he believed "the OEM high pressure cast piston i had would be good for upto 400hp"

-My OEM ECU is not tunable in any way...well i guess thats confirmed!

-My engine balancer was disapointed i had the rods shot peened because he believes the big ends will be warped which will require machining and thus another ballance....

quote for today:
good advise may not always be good advise!

Paul


Will those work on a c280?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
Awesome! Waiting fo the numbers :D

just as soon as i...err...find my calculator
formula (http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/e/n/engine%20excitation%20mechanisms/source.html)


basic calculation shows an 8% reduction in reciprocating mass

[Pagz]

Originally posted by STATUS
Will those work on a c280?

Na man,there custom

[jnenad16]

I dont see any pics!

nenad

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Renn 208
definitely time to bump up the revs:D

its tempting!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by jnenad16
I dont see any pics!

nenad

look harder!...jks
they there for sure man!

[STATUS]

Originally posted by 23K
Na man,there custom

where can i get some custom ones?

[Denlasoul]

How much did these cost?

You can PM me the price. ;)

edit: So if you bring up your redline, how does that work with the speedo? For example, if my car has a 5800 redline and I raise it to 6200, how do I get it to match my speedo when there is an actual redline mark on the speedo at 5800? New cluster or something?

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by 23K
look harder!...jks
they there for sure man!
I tried with firefox, IE, and netscape, no pics. seriously.

nenad

[rollinrealbig]

ya pix only worked for about a day. then disapeered.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by STATUS
where can i get some custom ones?


Contact top-end performance!....
Any reason why you would be wanting forged pistons?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by jnenad16
I tried with firefox, IE, and netscape, no pics. seriously.

nenad

Weird...they are working today and have every time iv logged on....maybe cardomain was down for a while?!?!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
How much did these cost?

You can PM me the price. ;)

edit: So if you bring up your redline, how does that work with the speedo? For example, if my car has a 5800 redline and I raise it to 6200, how do I get it to match my speedo when there is an actual redline mark on the speedo at 5800? New cluster or something?

you got PM

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by Denlasoul

edit: So if you bring up your redline, how does that work with the speedo? For example, if my car has a 5800 redline and I raise it to 6200, how do I get it to match my speedo when there is an actual redline mark on the speedo at 5800? New cluster or something?

You need to watch more Initial D:p

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by Renn 208
You need to watch more Initial D:p

I dnt get why they even bother putting a redline.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
I dnt get why they even bother putting a redline.

i'd suggest you do some mo reading.

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by Renn 208
i'd suggest you do some mo reading.

naw, ill pass ;)

[Pagz]

cardomains down hence no pics...even though i still see them.

[Renn 208]

ignorance is bliss

[sorbo]

Originally posted by Renn 208
ignorance is bliss

no, it's a pest to the rest of us ;)

[alphanumeric]

bump... where are the updates? c'mon... I need a reason to come to this site!!!

[Pagz]

Sorry man wish i had good news for an update hence why i havent done it!...
when we got the pistons a few weeks back i rushed them over to the rebuilders for installation the following day....it turns out the Gapless topseal ring was too tight in the ring land...and after nearly two weeks of e-mails and phone calls between topend performance and JE pistons it turns out the rings i have are a very expensive set,as they didnt have the cheaper ones in stock that were supposed to be used...So the pistons where made to suit the rings....the outcome as of last week is JE is making a brand new set of pistons and shipping them to me at no extra charge....

What this means i have two sets of forged pistons,and with .002" removed from the top ring land should be good for a spare set if i ever need them,however thats hope i dont!;)

The new ones should be here in the next week or so hopfully... so when its back together i'll have somthing alittle more positive to report!...

[rollinrealbig]

Damn now I know im NEVER going to try doing what you did to the M111, sooo many issues w.custom parts!!
I sure hope eveything works out man!!
;)

[Proven Guilty]

worst case scenario paul, i buy your 2nd set of pistons :)

[STATUS]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
worst case scenario paul, i buy your 2nd set of pistons :)

HA HA I like that worst case scenario

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
Damn now I know im NEVER going to try doing what you did to the M111, sooo many issues w.custom parts!!
I sure hope eveything works out man!!
;)

lol yeh its been alittle more rough than expected...all i can do is dream of the day it all works and produces the desired performance as theres still plenty of uncertanties...today i recieved my book on how to build ignition systems...because the OEM ECU had the ignition modules intergrated,unlike most Aftermarket/OEM ECU's my MoTeC ecu needs seperate ignition modules that may not be compatable with the stock coils...so maybe i'll be going with four single coils and new ignition leads...will know shortly after alittle more reading etc...like the whole project just another hurdle in the road...will get there though!,thanks man...

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
worst case scenario paul, i buy your 2nd set of pistons :)

hahaha is that another turbo 202 on the horizon?:D:D

[Proven Guilty]

the route i would like to go is supercharged and turbo'd. S.C. on the idle-3000rpm range, then clutch it off for the turbo to the 3000-7500rpm range!

[Pagz]

Thats a big project man!,with todays Turbo and SC options you should be able to build a good system with either one!...

A correctly sized turbo will be a fun car to drive,and should see good boost well before 3000!...mine does and i picked a larger turbine housing for top end!...you need only to jump in a new VW GTi,EVO,WRX etc to see how a mild street turbo engine can be very entertainting!......ok ok so i guess im alittle bias towards turbo:D...Everywhere you go people will argue which is better and why...personally i think leave SC for bigger displacement low boost applications....turbo for high boost smaller displacement.

oh and turbo sounds waaaaay better:cool::D

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
Thats a big project man!,with todays Turbo and SC options you should be able to build a good system with either one!...

A correctly sized turbo will be a fun car to drive,and should see good boost well before 3000!...mine does and i picked a larger turbine housing for top end!...you need only to jump in a new VW GTi,EVO,WRX etc to see how a mild street turbo engine can be very entertainting!......ok ok so i guess im alittle bias towards turbo:D...Everywhere you go people will argue which is better and why...personally i think leave SC for bigger displacement low boost applications....turbo for high boost smaller displacement.

oh and turbo sounds waaaaay better:cool::D

NOBODY will argue that a crispy turbo with BOV doesn't sound phoenominal!

hell, i'd be happy with the poor man's BOV using the custom air intake you sold to ksport. speaking of which, do you still have plans, or are you able to produce another? i would really like to buy the design that you had, and vent off to get that BOV "pshhhhh" sound like you and slammed_c used to have!

[STATUS]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
NOBODY will argue that a crispy turbo with BOV doesn't sound phoenominal!

hell, i'd be happy with the poor man's BOV using the custom air intake you sold to ksport. speaking of which, do you still have plans, or are you able to produce another? i would really like to buy the design that you had, and vent off to get that BOV "pshhhhh" sound like you and slammed_c used to have!

That would be very cool. But then you would have to take it another step and Turbo then U would have 2 nice sound pssshhhh i presume. That would sound sweet

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by STATUS
That would be very cool. But then you would have to take it another step and Turbo then U would have 2 nice sound pssshhhh i presume. That would sound sweet

there would be two stages of "pssssshhhh"

there would be the electronic bypass venting to the ambient air, at 3000 rpms and the BOV's pshhhh when you let of the gas and/or shift!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
NOBODY will argue that a crispy turbo with BOV doesn't sound phoenominal!

hell, i'd be happy with the poor man's BOV using the custom air intake you sold to ksport. speaking of which, do you still have plans, or are you able to produce another? i would really like to buy the design that you had, and vent off to get that BOV "pshhhhh" sound like you and slammed_c used to have!

Sorry man it was a one-off...it really needs to be built in house to be a good fit etc!...with alittle bit of patiance and a lot of spare time im sure you could fab one up!!...if you would like the "poor man BOV" you could seperate the Bypass from the side of your air box by using a new piece of pipe,or cut the OEM one back between the bypass and SC discharge,then make a flange for the little filter you will need to attach to it...

[Proven Guilty]

yep, that's what i want to do. i seen slammed_c fab'd one up himself, but the guy you've been having do all the aluminum work on makes it show quality and polished. if i'm going to do it, i've gotta have some bling too!

how's the piston progress coming along anyway before we get too offtopic? lol

[Pagz]

Yeh helps if you have a decent guy to weld it!...the intake Dev got was ok,however it wasnt done by the guy i use now!
right yeh ontopic;)...um hopfully i'll see these pistons today or tomorrow all going well and get this engine back in by this weekend...im so tired of see'n that 4" gap under the front fender lol.

[Pagz]

Pistons arrived...took time off work to take straight to builders...Rings fit good...FINALLY its all on...
crappy phone pic...notice they didnt moly coat the whole piston this time!,also all pistons were two grams lighter than the previous JE set...any gains a good gain lol

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_245_full.jpg

[Proven Guilty]

paul, i've found your new avatar!
http://www.ccny.cuny.edu/library/exhibitions/frankenstein/images/frankenstein3.jpg

[Pagz]

LOL??

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
LOL??

we can't WAIT for you to bolt it back together.


IT'S ALIIIIIIIIVE!!!!

[Pagz]

ooh doh...im alittle slow today:D

[trymonlam]

what is that glass thing on the far corner of the table?

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by trymonlam
what is that glass thing on the far corner of the table?

my guess is the electronic scale he used to prove they were 2g lighter per piston ;)

[jnolte]

Originally posted by trymonlam
what is that glass thing on the far corner of the table?

hes a drug dealer, weights the blow on it

[trymonlam]

Originally posted by jnolte
hes a drug dealer, weights the blow on it
that actually sounds more logical. cause with the pistons on a glass scale is somewhat unfitting.

[Pagz]

how'd that get in there:Paranoid:

[Pagz]

:hmmm:

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by jnolte
hes a drug dealer, weights the blow on it

rofl

GOTTA FUND THE TURBO PROJECT SOMEHOW!
:bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:

[Pagz]

^^^shhhh :nospeech :nospeech .........:D

[Pagz]

yaaaaay...my engines back in:banana:........................................ ...................................NOT


Rods slide side to side on crank and piston due to a wider gap inside the JE piston than the OEM....


when will the hurting stop.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_236_full.jpg

[trymonlam]

Originally posted by 23K
yaaaaay...my engines back in:banana:........................................ ...................................NOT


Rods slide side to side on crank and piston due to a wider gap inside the JE piston than the OEM....


when will the hurting stop.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_236_full.jpg

hmm....
so what's ur solution to this?

[STATUS]

Originally posted by trymonlam
hmm....
so what's ur solution to this?

if its not one thing its another it will be worth it i hope

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
Rods slide side to side on crank and piston due to a wider gap inside the JE piston than the OEM....


Is this on both sets of JE pistons? If so, I take it their design is flawed, or possibly an error in the specs you had provided them?

[Pagz]

Both sets are same,iv mailed them but no responce yet...i would assume one of the following....

1.We could use spacers...not sure how well this will work,as type of material and clearance will be critical for long life...also the inside of the JE piston is not been finished to take such a thing.

2.3rd time lucky on another set of pistons.


I shipped them one of the OEM pistons out of my engine....the new ones should have come back with at least the critical specs being the same!.


this is killing me slowly...im not giving up thats for sure....this will work...

[Proven Guilty]

the fact you sent them an OE piston makes it inexcuseable since they redesigned the piston. hopefully they'll just exchange the last set for a final build at no cost.

i feel your pain man!

[Pagz]

Ok update...
There arguing i should have stated the piston locates the rod....Thats FBS!!!!!!!!!!!......whats worse is the opposing walls either side of the small end arnt parallel....this means i need to individually mill each piston,then machine a set of 6061 alloy spacers to suit..............Ohhh FFS:dead:

:dispoint:

[aruba]

hey men , its been a long time. and damn so many ups and downs,but we ad club 202 sure want to see that c230 do the pppsssss sound im pretty positive about youre project keep it up !!!!!! :)

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
Ok update...
There arguing i should have stated the piston locates the rod....Thats FBS!!!!!!!!!!!......whats worse is the opposing walls either side of the small end arnt parallel....this means i need to individually mill each piston,then machine a set of 6061 alloy spacers to suit..............Ohhh FFS:dead:

:dispoint:

paul, don't back down man. that's pretty F*cked up of them when you sent them AN ORIGINAL MERCEDES BENZ PISTON for manufacturing duplication since their first set of pistons wouldn't even work in the first place with the proper f'ng rings! i feel they are 100% responsible, and i don't give a rat's ass how custom of a piston this is. making spacers severely comprimises the durability of your project; and i think the only option is they either rebuild the piston the correct way (their mistake, their learning curve but who doesn't agree 3rd times a charm?! :D) or go full custom beefy connecting rods to support the new gap in the pistons.

the connecting rods shouldn't even be an option now since you've already shot-peened the stock ones, and have had them balanced. i feel the bottom end internals are pretty rock solid as is, but if you decided to go with upgraded connecting rods then you run the risk of having to match up the bearings, custom length wrist pins and all that B.S.

i say they should build you another set of pistons in exchange for the two sets they f'd up.

[Pagz]

Thanks guys,
....its def there fault!,and i would like to see another set of pistons that are made for the job...but,im soo out of time,Sooooo out of patiance...Iv dropped the pistons,pins,rods into my engineer for them to mill and make the spacers...so things are still happening...i'll just grind off the JE stamp and add my initials:D.
Yeh custom rods would have been nice for sure!!!...but yeh have already done so much to the OEM they should last!


Edit:LOL atpturbo send me a new turbine housing.....and it doest fit...turns out he sent the wrong one....CANT ANYBODY GET IT RIGHT....ANYBODY?????

[Proven Guilty]

:dead: is my new favorite emoticon :D

are you sure the spacers are really a good idea? being that high up on the assembly of the engine's bottom end, i would think if they weren't also balanced with the pistons, rods, crank and basically the whole "rolling assembly" that it would cause catastrophic vibration since they wont be true solid parts, where the correct pistons would be the correct gap and actually part of the piston itself.

as a design element, are the spacers going to be round, and free-floating where they could spin around the wrist pins, or square to form fit the gap and be less "bouncy" when at high rpms?

i have a really bad feeling about this paul!

[Pagz]

:dead:Hahaha i can see this will be commen in all my Modification posts from here on:D...you'll see plenty of them when my engine explodes from poor tuning...or crappy pistons lol

your right man spacers arnt as good as a properly made piston!...
after we mill the pistons they will need balancing along with the spacers,which will be round and have clearances similar to stock...they will be an accurate fit to keep any movment to a minimum!,hopfully we can pull this off!...

will keep you posted on how we go next week!

[Proven Guilty]

you should email them a link to the forums, and all the views and threads your project has.

sounds to me like this site alone is the wrong type of word-of-mouth sales JE wants for anyone planning on ordering custom work from them. that alone might make them willing to swap the pistons for you, cause i sure as hell will never order anything from them for my upcomming turbo project

[c280nz]

FFS u have bad luck.
its almost time you shoot someone

[Pagz]

Yeh bad luck seems the norm on this project...i dont expect the worst anymore...i just get it:D
man i need to shoot more than one;),and if i was confrontational enough i would send the link,but after whats happened i dont need the extra stress and argument...
if i had 5 years to build this i would have them make another set...unfortunatly time is never on my side....and times a very high trump card.

Have been back to my engineers who are very busy...picked up the goods and taken them to another firm iv used before...there charging 300 for the milling and making the spacers...so quiet a bit more than what i would have payed at my usual engineer...but at least it will be completed by next wednesday!.

Will post some pics when i get them back!.

cheers,
paul

[JasonH]

Damn, too bad JE keeps getting it wrong. I know the frustration you are living through all too well.

In my turbo application I used Venolia:
http://www.venolia.com/

We had a slight bore... so the pistons were a complete custom size application/build. They got it right the first time and I was very happy with the results.

Good luck,
Jason

[Pagz]

Originally posted by JasonH
Damn, too bad JE keeps getting it wrong. I know the frustration you are living through all too well.

In my turbo application I used Venolia:
http://www.venolia.com/

We had a slight bore... so the pistons were a complete custom size application/build. They got it right the first time and I was very happy with the results.

Good luck,
Jason

Hey dont see you round much!...well i guess because you dont have a 202?...or do you?

yeh plenty of choice when it comes to custom pistons...i went with the most commen brand i see everyday expecting good results!...did you send venolia an OEM piston?,and did they pick up straight away it was a piston located rod setup?
Wish i did happy:D

[JasonH]

Yeah, I check this site once in a blue moon these days. I still have a Benz, but it's an E320 4Matic Waggy for the family. My fun car is an Evo... which suits me well. :)

Anyway, Manley made my custom rods & titanium valve springs.

I did send in a stocker to Venolia, along with the requirements for the slightly larger bore and to use Total Seal rings. They were definitely top notch in construction, way lighter, way beefier, with a custom dish. I am bummed I never got the chance to push that lower end harder before the car caught fire.

I was tuning the ECU with racegas to go to the track the day I caught fire. I can tell you this... it would have at least been into the mid to low 13's. Such a bummer.

Oh well... now I have a car that runs mid 12's.

Good luck with the project.

Jason

[Pagz]

well i guess the evo would keep you happy!,theres been many times iv almost crossed back over;)

yeh i remember seeing the pics of the burn out a few years back now...HUGE bummer man...I bought a mini fire extinguisher just before i finish the first turbo install...though iv seen these to be pretty useless at times!...

So manley made the rods too!...interesting,so were the small ends of the new rods the same width as OEM or did you have the pistons custom matched to a wider small end custom rod?....And,how much did they cost?:)

Thanks,
Paul

[JasonH]

Unfortunately I don't remember the cost, or the dimensions, because I threw all that info out long ago... and my memory is getting hazy with age. I also think the rods were actually a variant or perhaps even an off the shelf of a chevy application. I do know that they were a wee bit longer than the stockers, but we made up for it in the piston I think. I do think they took a bigger diameter pin than stock. I can tell you that overall, my rod and piston package was waaaaay cheaper than with JE... because we priced with them as well. From what you are going through, I am glad I went the route that I did. What a pain in the a$$! Funny, I seem to remember my builder also cautioning against using JE, as they had delivery problems in the past with them too.

Cheers,
Jason

[Pagz]

Dude...where were you 4 months ago when i started the internals....geeeeez:D:D

[Pagz]

:tired: engineer rang said cant do them now for a few weeks as a big customer has pushed in....even though said they would be done before wednesday...so i guess its back to another workshop...



:rambo:.......:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:


Edit:couldnt find an emoticon holding a gun so rambo instead lol

[Proven Guilty]

:dead:

[Pagz]

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:
:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

:D:D:D.....:banana: OK well it seems after untold time off work and a bar of 6061 alloy for $55...the spacer idea is no more....I have just been into a another race engine builder who has told me they once did a volvo engine like this and it didnt work...Piston located rods have a very specific skirt design which allows this setup to function correctly,the other option was to have custom rods made that locate on the crank...but the crank doesnt have saficient wall depth to take this...

so on a bit of a downer today...

Anyways the show will go on...and i will get there.

[Pagz]

oh yeh and he recommended we put the OEM pistons back in...he liked the design...LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL thats not the first time iv been told that.....and even my father told me that.

[Pagz]

Hey Jason....can you tell if your setup still used a Piston located rod???this is very important for the next step i take...which may have to be custom rods and pistons!...

[Pagz]

Update...It seems theres been a change of heart!...after being in contact today there looking into weather or not they can actually make this piston and hopfully they may make another set that will work!...So every body cross fingers...i need that lucky Sh!t;)

[aruba]

dammit i got my fingers and my legs crossed i even braided my hair :D good luck men !!

[trymonlam]

Originally posted by aruba
dammit i got my fingers and my legs crossed i even braided my hair :D good luck men !!
:eek:
good for u, buddy.

[Pagz]

cheers guys ima need it!:)
found out yesturday they do have a forging that will suit!..so hopfully things will go my way!