vibrating steering wheel at 100km/h up

[yonjun]

I feel a little vibration at the steering wheel at 100km/h up.
first I thought it was bad balance of tires eventhough I had just install/balanced the tires. but after trying 3 different sets of wheel/tires, it's still there.

however it's so subtle I could ignore it but was curious what might be the cause.

I recently changed rotors/pads all around. but the vibration was there before and it's still there.

any suggestion?

[therock2689]

Maybe teh steering dampener may need to be replaceed. Check you fluid level and see how that is. Other then that, i dont realy know much.
Good Luck


Roca

[yonjun]

you mean the power steering fluid level?

[adelaros]

Verify that the wheels (rims) are not bend..

[benzonline]

I have a similar issue. It could be Lower control arm bushings.

[therock2689]

Originally posted by yonjun
you mean the power steering fluid level?
Yes

[Design29]

Vibrating steering wheel = Bad Steering Shock.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by adelaros
Verify that the wheels (rims) are not bend..

first I thought it was wheel or tire but tried 3 different "of rims/tires and the vibration was still felt.

I tried 2 different 17" setups and 1 15" setup with winter tires.

with 15" setup, the vibration was little less than 17" setups. I guess 15" tires (winter tires) are softer and absorbed the vibration more than 17" summer tires.

[audiophile]

could be a wheel bearing

[Abuimad]

Originally posted by audiophile
could be a wheel bearing

i had the same problem..and it was the wheel bearing....

[benzfan]

Originally posted by Design29
Vibrating steering wheel = Bad Steering Shock.


Changing the shock will mask the real issue for a while, leading one to believe that the shock was the culprit. On a properly set up car, with no other issues, the shock can be removed and you wouldn't know the difference, at least until you push it hard in corners on chewed up pavement. Then, you would see the car try to change direction on you and the wheel would get jerked around in your hands. The steering damper prevents the sudden, road-induced movements. Try driving a 70's era Land Cruiser on bad offroad terrain and you'll see the true need for a steering damper. Just don't hook your thumbs around the steering wheel on that thing when offroading.....(ask me how I know).

Same on a motorcycle. The older machines on which I tried numerous times (and obviously failed) to kill myself many years ago, had no steering dampers, other than sometimes a knob that when turned, would increase the friction in the headset. We all had high-speed wobbles that we thought a steering damper would fix. I even added one to my bike, but it didn't cure the wobble. It was induced by poor alignment and worn swingarm bushings. After a slide down the pavement at over 100mph caused by a tank-slapper on a straight road, I paid more attention to the little things when rebuilding it. The wobble went away. The steering damper's true worth was found in hard corners when hitting small bumps. The bike tracked much better, and my underwear remained cleaner.

[OCKlasse]

Originally posted by Abuimad
i had the same problem..and it was the wheel bearing....

Did you also hear noises as you were driving? I hear a low hum after driving for several minutes which becomes slightly louder, and I also have the steering vibration. Just want to make sure it really is the bearings that need replacement.

[OCKlasse]

Does anyone know how much the dealer charges for a bearing replacement (and does it need to be done in pairs like shocks, for instance?

[yonjun]

Originally posted by OCKlasse
Did you also hear noises as you were driving? I hear a low hum after driving for several minutes which becomes slightly louder, and I also have the steering vibration. Just want to make sure it really is the bearings that need replacement.

I do hear some low hum as well. I could hear even at very low speed. gets little louder at higher speed.
Thought it was noise fromi tires but after installing differnt tires, the noise was still there.

Have you get it checked?

I'll definately get it checked soon when I have time.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by Abuimad
i had the same problem..and it was the wheel bearing....

Assuming it was wheel bearing, is it critical/safety related issue so that need to be replaces asap?

or can the car be driven for a while before replacing it?

huw much did it cost you?

[benzfan]

The bearing kit is around $100 per wheel. They also sell a new hub with new races installed for just over $200. The dealer will go this route, as pounding out old races, derusting the hubs and putting in new bearings is too labor intensive for them. Simply replacing parts is easier and makes them more $. It's not too hard a DIY. You just need to keep anything away from the new races that isn't made of either brass or hardwood.

[OCKlasse]

Originally posted by benzfan
The bearing kit is around $100 per wheel. They also sell a new hub with new races installed for just over $200. The dealer will go this route, as pounding out old races, derusting the hubs and putting in new bearings is too labor intensive for them. Simply replacing parts is easier and makes them more $. It's not too hard a DIY. You just need to keep anything away from the new races that isn't made of either brass or hardwood.

thanks for the info...do both pairs in front need to be replaced like shocks for instance, or can I just replace one wheel's?

[benzfan]

You can do one side only, but you need to inspect the old one to find out why it needs replacement, then at least inspect and regrease the other side to make sure it won't do the same thing soon.

A word on grease: MB likes you to use their grease. That's fine, but there are plenty of good synthetic wheel bearing greases on the market. I have found that the MB grease stays quite firm, possibly inhibiting proper refresh on the rollers. This is a big issue with companies like Timkin and SKF. They have done extensive research into this and will tell you that too much grease is bad, as the bearing simply cuts a channel through it and you get very little refresh. Kinda counter-intuitive. The greases available (good synthetic) currently seem to liquefy under heat and load more so than the MB grease. This of course does wonders for the refresh. Grease is just oil with soap added to make it firm. Lubrication properties do not depend on the thickness of the grease. Only some applications that require clinging and do not have seals require a thick grease. Your wheel bearings of course have new seals when you replace the bearings. This liquefying will not be an issue. Use any good synthetic wheel bearing grease, but don't cheap out.

[OCKlasse]

Originally posted by benzfan
You can do one side only, but you need to inspect the old one to find out why it needs replacement, then at least inspect and regrease the other side to make sure it won't do the same thing soon.

A word on grease: MB likes you to use their grease. That's fine, but there are plenty of good synthetic wheel bearing greases on the market. I have found that the MB grease stays quite firm, possibly inhibiting proper refresh on the rollers. This is a big issue with companies like Timkin and SKF. They have done extensive research into this and will tell you that too much grease is bad, as the bearing simply cuts a channel through it and you get very little refresh. Kinda counter-intuitive. The greases available (good synthetic) currently seem to liquefy under heat and load more so than the MB grease. This of course does wonders for the refresh. Grease is just oil with soap added to make it firm. Lubrication properties do not depend on the thickness of the grease. Only some applications that require clinging and do not have seals require a thick grease. Your wheel bearings of course have new seals when you replace the bearings. This liquefying will not be an issue. Use any good synthetic wheel bearing grease, but don't cheap out.

Thanks for all the wonderful insight. I really appreciate all the help!

[sig425]

I am going through this as well. So far I have put on 2 sets of tires and fixed a "bent" rim... wasnt bent imo but oh well.

So here is what I have been told by 4 different shops.

shop 1: Wheel bearing
Shop 2: Tie rod ends
Shop 3: Idler arms
Shop 4: The drive shaft coupling that goes out

Mind you, each shop swears that the other shops are wrong.

I have a friend that sets up suspensions on race cars. Here is what he says: With the car in the air, you can grab the wheel and move it side to side and top to bottom on the spindle... this indicates that it is probably a wheel bearing--- but, german cars all have some "float" or movement to their wheels on the spindle. He cant tell me how much float is natural for my car and if it is bad enough to make it necessary to change the wheel bearing. Next, my tie rods have some up and down play. Just a little. Push the tie rod up into the brace it connects to and there should be little to no movement. Mine move a tiny bit. They are rubber bushings so how much movement is natural he cant say for my car. Ideally, you want none. Idler arms... one again, the bushing show some age for a 98 car with 90k on it.

His advise: replace bearings, idler arms, and tie rod ends at once. In the long run it is cheaper since the suspesion needs to come apart anyway to do there repairs.


That adds up to about $1000 dollars but for a car with 90k and minor vibrations you are kinda of guessing which bushing is worn out just enough to cause issues.

Alternatively, deal with the vibration, wear out tires, and wait until something gets wose. If it is a wheel bearing you run the risk of major failure resulting is possible accident. Keep an eye on movement top to bottom of your wheel... if it gets worse or starts making a bad clunking noise--- stop driving it.


In the mean time... I sit here trying to decide what I want to do... but, I knew going into a c43 that the front bushings all wear out about this time! Read some of Jirwans posts he's seen it all.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by sig425


shop 1: Wheel bearing
Shop 2: Tie rod ends
Shop 3: Idler arms
Shop 4: The drive shaft coupling that goes out

Mind you, each shop swears that the other shops are wrong.
.

This is exactly why I want to ask around and have some ideas before I go to shop right away. :)
In the shop, they start changing things that they think the cause of problem and if it doesn't solve, change other parts and so on.

Still I have to visit a shop, lift it up to get it diagnosed.

[benzfan]

On the 202, you will wear out 2 sets of lower ball joints foe every set of tie rod ends (at least). I would do lower ball joints (its a cheap DIY), and repack and readjust wheel bearings before blaming anything else on a 202 (assuming your wheel balance is good). Then, if it still vibrates, look further.

[benzonline]

off topic: Benzfan, in MBCanada's Benz Banter forum we are having a cruise on Sept 10...perhaps you can sign up and come.

[Dubbin']

Umm. I work at DTC.. We have people coming in like that alot. I don't know what fixes you've tried besides rebalancing.. You say you've had different wheels.. So easy solutions..

Are you wheels hubcentric? Meaning do they fit on the hub perfectly without moving up or down, side to side.. If they aren't, You need hubrings.. Their little plastic peices that fit in to make the wheel hubcentric. If they are hubcentric...

Go back for a rebalance, and have them check if any of your wheels are bent. The balancers should be able to do a 'rim runout' test.. Basically it can detect any distortion in the wheel. You can also have them do a 'ride match' which measures load force from the tire to the ground.. Basically it makes for a smoother ride..
Another possible reason could just be the tire itself. Their mass produced so alot of times they just completely crap out. Thats why they sell warrentys! Sometimes they just wear unevenly.. They'll turn to an oval shape.. etc.
And depending on what tire you're running on your car. Sometimes on goodyear eagle F1's.. If they sit too long the tire developes flat spots on it. - I doubt it would be that unless you have eagle F1's.

I hope that helps! Just head into a DTC and they'll fix you up. Just keep in mind that ridematching and measuring the rim runout costs money.. Because it takes a bit of time to do the tests and everything.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by Dubbin'
Umm. I work at DTC.. We have people coming in like that alot. I don't know what fixes you've tried besides rebalancing.. You say you've had different wheels.. So easy solutions..

Are you wheels hubcentric? Meaning do they fit on the hub perfectly without moving up or down, side to side.. If they aren't, You need hubrings.. Their little plastic peices that fit in to make the wheel hubcentric. If they are hubcentric...

Go back for a rebalance, and have them check if any of your wheels are bent. The balancers should be able to do a 'rim runout' test.. Basically it can detect any distortion in the wheel. You can also have them do a 'ride match' which measures load force from the tire to the ground.. Basically it makes for a smoother ride..
Another possible reason could just be the tire itself. Their mass produced so alot of times they just completely crap out. Thats why they sell warrentys! Sometimes they just wear unevenly.. They'll turn to an oval shape.. etc.
And depending on what tire you're running on your car. Sometimes on goodyear eagle F1's.. If they sit too long the tire developes flat spots on it. - I doubt it would be that unless you have eagle F1's.

I hope that helps! Just head into a DTC and they'll fix you up. Just keep in mind that ridematching and measuring the rim runout costs money.. Because it takes a bit of time to do the tests and everything.

First of all. what's DTC? :)

3 sets of rims I tried are all OEM Genuine mercedes rims (2 17", 1 15") so they're hubcentric.

during the winter, I had 15" with studded wintertires and I didn't feel much vibration partly I didn't drive 202 a lot, partly the studded winter tires making lots of road noise by it self. But I noticed when braking, the steering wheel was shaking. Turned out the brakes were going out. So I replaced the brakes (rotors, pads) and in summer I installed 17" rims tires.

as soon as I installed 17" rims/tires, I noticed vibration. so I went back to the shop and re balanced the tires but it was still there.

Thinknig it was the tires itself (not because of balancing), I changed rims/tires combo. before doing it, I was on winter rims briefly. but knowing there's a vibration, I could notice with 15" rims this time. but it was less obvious due to taller side wall on 15" tires.

with different sets of 17" rims/tires the vibration was still there. now the tire/rim is rulled out as the cause of it. now i'm pointing finger at one of suspension components (I don't know which one yet though)

New findings:
I notice some grinding feeling at every speed. even at very very low speed. it's not obvious but it's there and it gets worse at turns. Could the wheel bearing cause this as well?

[Dubbin']

Sorry. You live in canada right? My bad homie. Its Discount Tire Company.. In US. That was probaly confusing. Haha. Yeah.. A wheel bearing would do that.. Not really a grinding sound. More of a humming.. kind of like what a marbel sounds like when you roll it across a table.. You know? (go get a marbel and try it)
Also if the weel bearing is bad it could let the wheel flex side to side.. or up and down. A good way to figure it out yourself would be to jack up the front end of the car. Grab the tire as if you were going to hug it.. and shake it side to side.. You can check to see if any bushings are allowing accessive movement. If they aren't and it still moves it's probally a wheel bearing..

Keep in mind.. It is a german car. So when one thing breaks, it usually means something else broke as well. Haha. Just check out your whole front end.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by Dubbin'
Sorry. You live in canada right? My bad homie. Its Discount Tire Company.. In US. That was probaly confusing. Haha. Yeah.. A wheel bearing would do that.. Not really a grinding sound. More of a humming.. kind of like what a marbel sounds like when you roll it across a table.. You know? (go get a marbel and try it)
Also if the weel bearing is bad it could let the wheel flex side to side.. or up and down. A good way to figure it out yourself would be to jack up the front end of the car. Grab the tire as if you were going to hug it.. and shake it side to side.. You can check to see if any bushings are allowing accessive movement. If they aren't and it still moves it's probally a wheel bearing..

Keep in mind.. It is a german car. So when one thing breaks, it usually means something else broke as well. Haha. Just check out your whole front end.

YES. marbel rolling sound. that's the one. :)

[1995c280]

Originally posted by benzfan
On the 202, you will wear out 2 sets of lower ball joints foe every set of tie rod ends (at least). I would do lower ball joints (its a cheap DIY), and repack and readjust wheel bearings before blaming anything else on a 202 (assuming your wheel balance is good). Then, if it still vibrates, look further.

AGREED!!!!!

try to adjust the wheel bearings before replacing them. take off the wheel and then the dust cap with a flathead. there is a 5mm allen bolt. losen that. then take some channel locks and tighten the u shaped locking device which the allen bolt goes in. give it a hard tug with the channel locks then back off slightly and then finally a small tug. then tighten the allen bolt. make sure to apply more grease in the dust cap and see if this solves your problem before spending alot of money and replacing part after part!

Jason

[benzfan]

Originally posted by Dubbin'
...and shake it side to side.. You can check to see if any bushings are allowing accessive movement. If they aren't and it still moves it's probally a wheel bearing..



When it gets to the point of noticable play, you wouldn't be unsure anymore. Symptoms of incorrect bearing adjustment or slight wear, before the roaring sound starts, include braking shake from highway speed, often blamed on discs or tie-rod ends. The roaring noise, which tends to increase when cornering in one direction more than in the other (assuming only one of the 2 bearings on one wheel is starting to go) is a serious warning of impending catastrophic failure, and it won't be pretty.

[yonjun]

Originally posted by 1995c280
AGREED!!!!!

try to adjust the wheel bearings before replacing them. take off the wheel and then the dust cap with a flathead. there is a 5mm allen bolt. losen that. then take some channel locks and tighten the u shaped locking device which the allen bolt goes in. give it a hard tug with the channel locks then back off slightly and then finally a small tug. then tighten the allen bolt. make sure to apply more grease in the dust cap and see if this solves your problem before spending alot of money and replacing part after part!

Jason

I'll try this first this weekend or the next. and see what happens.

thanks.



By the way, I have another issue :)

occasionally, the passenger side rear floor carpet gets wet. anyone knows what's under the rear passenger side floor? When it happens, I just let the windows open and let it dry.

[yonjun]

I just called "silverstar M-B" in montreal to find out how much a wheel bearing costs and they quoted me C$315 per. Is this what they usually charge in MB dealers in canada for wheelbearing?

I searched autopartswarehouse.com and it was U$50 and they even offered free shipping (within USA).

I'll definately check if it's the wheel bearing on the weekend and if it is, I'll have my bro in michigan order one for me.

every parts are so expensive in canada not to mention the cars themselves, compared to USA.

[sig425]

that is about what I was quoted by two non dealership repair place here.

[benzfan]

Originally posted by yonjun
I just called "silverstar M-B" in montreal to find out how much a wheel bearing costs and they quoted me C$315 per. Is this what they usually charge in MB dealers in canada for wheelbearing?

I searched autopartswarehouse.com and it was U$50 and they even offered free shipping (within USA).

I'll definately check if it's the wheel bearing on the weekend and if it is, I'll have my bro in michigan order one for me.

every parts are so expensive in canada not to mention the cars themselves, compared to USA.

No, they're quoting you for a whole new hub with pre-installed bearings. Ask them for the bearing service kit. It should be less than half that price.

[sig425]

my invoice just says replace bearing drivers side $300. The part was $60

[yonjun]

Originally posted by sig425
my invoice just says replace bearing drivers side $300. The part was $60

what I quoted was the parts alone :)
as benzfan said, it might be whole assembly not just the bearing.