1999 c230 Kompressor, S.C. not turning on

[Proven Guilty]

Hey guys, I'm in a pinch, and need some opinions. Today I had a friend of a friend perform a full inspection on my car at a respected imports repair shop here in southern california. Now that I know where I stand with my "its about that time" maintenance, we've still got a gremlin to work out with the supercharger, and I don't have cash to troubleshoot by replacing spendy parts through process of elimination :D

Here's what we've come up with:
-Lower balljoints are shot
-Control arm bushings are shot ($565 quoted to replace..ugh)
-Codes P0410 and P1236 are present
-Steering shock is leaking
-Possibly faulty O2 sensor(s)
-Check engine light is on. After reset, comes back on after 2nd start.

It would cost me $300 to troubleshoot the ECU/computer. What it boils down to; the supercharger for "some reason" is not engaging. (Bad relay? Bad mechanical clutch? Who knows...) It's suspected to be a faulty ECU as worst case scenario.

It feels as if there is a 40% loss in power. The supercharger spins up but its not engaging at all, and the belt is in good shape/proper tension. The funny thing is.. after I drove to work in the morning; when i leave for lunch break, all the power is back until the car gets near operating temperature (about 75 celcius and up) -- basically after the 2nd red light, the power is gone again.

Taken from another thread: (http://club202.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=61270)

Originally posted by benzaddict
I assume you have a 2.3 compressor engine by your description and they have 2 common problems that will cause P0410:

1. The air injection system on these cars uses the supercharger as an air pump when it's cold to rapidly heat the catalytic convertors, that's why they have a clutch on the supercharger. There is an inlet valve/filter and the switchover valve. The inlet valve often gets plugged and minimizes flow which will give code P0410. The valve is attatched to the pipe that bolts to the cylinder head and has a 27mm head on it and unscrews from the pipe. Pull the valve out and try to blow through it, it's most likely clogged, even though it looks ok to the eye.

2. When the computer does a self check of the air injection system for code P0410 it activates the air pump/supercharger for about 40sec, which blows a rush of air into the exhaust which in turn drops the front O2 sensor voltage nearly to 0mv if all is working properly. That's how it checks the air injection system and if your O2 sensor is getting "lazy" and slow to react, or starting to lose it's ground, it will slowly drop in voltage and may not drop fast enough. The computer wants to see it below 40mv within 60 seconds and if not it triggers code P0410. When the system is working properly it will drop to 6-10mv immediately.

You mentioned that your O2 sensor is not operating well so I would replace that as it's already a problem and most likely related. Good luck.

My questions are:
-Where is the location of the suggested faulty relay that controls the supercharger, and is it possible to test it?
-Where can I find the inlet valve as suggested by Benz Addict in this picture (stolen from my greek friend haha):
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j137/NEA-4311/redstuff.jpg

What has been replaced recently to void possibilities:
-Replaced MAS about 7,000 miles ago
-New Iridium plugs
-New Fuel Filter

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. I think its time to order some LPD bushings!

[Pagz]

Thankfully i dont have that air injection system!,wish i could help alittle more on the SC clutch issues...its sounding like the ecu is decideing not to ingage the clutch...which could be due to other problems...it maybe best to fix the P0410 fault and go from there...
whats the P1236 fault?

Paul

[Proven Guilty]

P1236 Magnetic super charger clutch Magnetic clutch function

[Proven Guilty]

i'm hoping its an easy fix. i never received a manual with my car, and i'm trying to figure out what relay is related to the super charger that he was talking about

[Pagz]

When you say the power comes back the second time you drive it up until operating temperature...I would say its not the relay,but still worth a check if you find it...im not sure where mine is but i would assume its with the other bank of relays on the opposite side of the engine bay to the ECU,beside the brake booster...

When you say the SC spins up?...I guess you mean the Lobes are being driven by the clutch being ingaged?...if so and the car still has that huge lack of power,then for some reason the bypass must be remaining open...

[OCKlasse]

Where's the repair shop, and what's your buddy's name? Been looking for a good place for a while.

[Proven Guilty]

eh, its hard to explain. i still hear the SC "whine" but theres no power. when it's hooked up to an official MBZ computer diagnostic, it confirms that the supercharger is not engaging.

however, i believe that it is engaging for that short period of time when i step out for lunch. its so odd... i'm starting to lean towards both problems being related to a stuck inlet valve. i just have yet to narrow down what and where it is so i can try to correct the problem.

[Pagz]

hmmm,if the SC is whining then the clutch is ingaged for sure!...
and if your not seeing boost the bypass must be open or your IC pipes have popped apart,it happened to me once,i didnt retain the MAS properly with those two clips...

the stuck valve could be the issue for sure!,i guess if the ECU see a fault in relation to the SC in any way it will either disengage the clutch or leave the bypass open...both of which will kill your HP...

which reminds me i need to remove my wastegate spring when i run the engine in for 500-1000K's so i have zero boost...its going to be hard!;)

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by OCKlasse
Where's the repair shop, and what's your buddy's name? Been looking for a good place for a while.

there's two places only that i'm willing to take my car:
1) Coast MBZ on paularino ave. in costa mesa (orange county) ask for John (short bald guy w/ glasses, HELLA knowledgeable)
2) charlie's foreign car in encinitas, ask for niko. he's pals with my boy John Tiglio and my name is chris. so if you wanted to name drop say john tiglio and chris sent you in.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
hmmm,if the SC is whining then the clutch is ingaged for sure!...
and if your not seeing boost the bypass must be open or your IC pipes have popped apart,it happened to me once,i didnt retain the MAS properly with those two clips...

the stuck valve could be the issue for sure!,i guess if the ECU see a fault in relation to the SC in any way it will either disengage the clutch or leave the bypass open...both of which will kill your HP...

which reminds me i need to remove my wastegate spring when i run the engine in for 500-1000K's so i have zero boost...its going to be hard!;)

awesome suggestions. i'll check them when i get home tonight from work! :bunny:

[Proven Guilty]

well, i'm baffled. i'm pretty sure i found the inlet valve everyone was talking about (inside the mechanism that attaches to the platic intake pipes, which is fed by the tube connecting to the MAS and coming off the IC)

the I.C. piping was all good and in-tact. however, the valve was really hard to push. it felt like there was gears or it was motor driven. i did find a vacuum line that was unplugged, but it could have been a result of me disconnecting things to get access to it

i'll post pics tomorrow

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
well, i'm baffled. i'm pretty sure i found the inlet valve everyone was talking about (inside the mechanism that attaches to the platic intake pipes, which is fed by the tube connecting to the MAS and coming off the IC)

the I.C. piping was all good and in-tact. however, the valve was really hard to push. it felt like there was gears or it was motor driven. i did find a vacuum line that was unplugged, but it could have been a result of me disconnecting things to get access to it

i'll post pics tomorrow


The valve you describe sounds like the Bosch Drive By Wire Throttle body,it is driven by motor and thus has gears.

The other motor driven valve you may have found is the VDO by-pass,which is attached to the side of the air filter box.

If you can get us some good pics of your engine bay i'll do my best to help you find this "Injection valve/change over"!

Paul

[SLAMMED_C]

If your supercharger clutch is not engaging then you have a huge problem!.. when my clutch went on me, it would intermittantly not engauge. usually on highway driving. it would cut out on me and then not return, then after a few kickdown presses it would come back on. this happened for about 2 weeks.. then my clutch stopped working ocmpletely and came apart damaging my supercharger nose cone.
if you still hear your supercharger whining and there is no boost then it could be a faulty bypass valve (side of airbox) if you know someone with a proper mercedes star diagnosis then they will be able to function test these components with the star.
he can check the operation of the supercharger clutch to see if it engages, he can check the bypass vapve to see if the flap closes and opens again.
but Im pretty sure that if the clutch doesnt engage (after the ecu has told it to engage) the bypasss valve will open up so no boost can be made.
Id do some electircal testing on that clutch.

[Pagz]

^^thats a good point!,test the clutch coil windings for continuity,and it maybe a wise move to remove the coil for inspection to make sure its not melted etc!...I only had one SC front cover;)

[Proven Guilty]

i was going to take some updated pictures just now, cause this chick i work with has a REALLY nice new digital camera; however, i'm not really sure what you guys would need pictures of.

the bypass valve sounds like something i definately want to look into tonight after work when i have some wrench time. where do i begin with it? is it a large metalic flap, like the air inlets on a carburator? if thats the case, theycould be stuck from being dirty , and i could probably clean it up to repair right? Or is it something i would need to order a new part to replace?

i'll take some pictures near the airbox so you guys can point me to where the bypass valve is you're talking about.

Thanks again!

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
The valve you describe sounds like the Bosch Drive By Wire Throttle body,it is driven by motor and thus has gears.-This one I have in this pic, and labeled it as A

Originally posted by 23K
The other motor driven valve you may have found is the VDO by-pass,which is attached to the side of the air filter box.
-This one is labeled as B (also where I found the vacuum leak)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/zen_anacrusis/c230%20Kompressor/top.jpg

[Proven Guilty]

ok, i think i've got it figured out now; my guess is that its the only metal piece attached to the airbox itself. it's another VDO device that has a motorized flap inside - i cleaned the inside cylinder as best i could, as well as the flaps of it so that it doesn't stick. however from what i've come to understand, the problem is that it's not closing.

i called LPD today, and they have one from an SLK230 for $250

the part number on the piece i'm looking at is
111 098 00 09

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/zen_anacrusis/c230%20Kompressor/airbox.jpg

anyone able to confirm/deny?

any way to test this part? it's got an electronic connector on it with 3 wires going in.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
-This one I have in this pic, and labeled it as A
-This one is labeled as B (also where I found the vacuum leak)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/zen_anacrusis/c230%20Kompressor/top.jpg


Ok...the "B" part you found is the evaperative emission control,its a simple solinoid valve which when open draws fuel vapour from the fuel tank into the engine via just under the throttle body which is "A" in your picture...

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
ok, i think i've got it figured out now; my guess is that its the only metal piece attached to the airbox itself. it's another VDO device that has a motorized flap inside - i cleaned the inside cylinder as best i could, as well as the flaps of it so that it doesn't stick. however from what i've come to understand, the problem is that it's not closing.

i called LPD today, and they have one from an SLK230 for $250

the part number on the piece i'm looking at is
111 098 00 09

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/zen_anacrusis/c230%20Kompressor/airbox.jpg

anyone able to confirm/deny?

any way to test this part? it's got an electronic connector on it with 3 wires going in.


Yip,thats the VDO bypass,it should close under any acceleration condition...if its not closing,it doesnt mean its faulty...though the possibility is there...it could simply be the ECU doenst have the correct information it would like before it closes it!...
which can mean other faulty components

And If you do find its faulty,Iv got one you can have for alot cheaper than 250!!!,and shipping is no issue!...

So you have had the codes read and there is no apparent issue?

Paul

[Proven Guilty]

i've reset the check engine light twice since the problem first started to try and clear out any old stuff. i reset the codes and check engine light the old school way; left key in the on position with the car shut off, and unplugged the battery for 20 minutes.

i'm trying to get it into the shop today to have the fresh codes read, as well as hook it up to a MBZ Star diagnostic to test the open/close function of the VDO Bypass valve. i'll post the results tonight if they have time to fit me in.

the way i figure, if the bypass valve passes function test, it's most likely oxygen sensor(s) or a faulty computer

[benzonline]

When I had this issue, the codes kept telling me (with no check engine light) that its the flap at fault. Swiped units and still nothing. I can guarantee you its MAS if you didnt change it already....that was my problem.

[Proven Guilty]

MAS was changed 10,000 miles ago, and the problem started 5,000 miles later after i got to california from my drive from michigan. I almost suspect I might have fueled up using e-85 fuel or some crap while i was half asleep and caused some new type of damage to the fuel and air system of my car.

[Proven Guilty]

Update:

Today I had my car in the shop (Carlsbad Mercedes & Volvo Service, Inc. of Carlsbad California).

The tech that worked on my car pulled the codes again (I reset them last night to make sure everything was clean going into the shop today).

The fresh codes still present are:
-P0410
-P01236

The tech referred me to Hoehn Mercedes of the car country plaza in Carlsbad, since they have techs whom are certified to work on the Kompressors (this shop was not, and openly admit it, so they did not charge me for diagnostic). They said everything seemed fine with the air pump (related to code P0410) after testing, so they suggested it was the clutch or the Kompressor itself.

So far I'm able to confirm the following:

-SC does whine under hard acceleration, but no boost (bypass valve remains open)
-When the car is cold (first start in the morning) the Bypass valve does work properly (closes when the engine is revved) and I can hear the S.C. in the morning too.
-I no longer suspect a relay has any part in this

To troubleshoot, I unplugged the hose connected to it, and gave the car some throttle from under the hood so I could watch how the bypass valve operated. After the car finished the 60 second "warm-up" cycle, the bypass valve stopped closing under any form of throttle/revving.

This leaves me under the impression that the Clutch is most likely good, and the bypass is most likely good.

After digging around and doing more homework via information already posted on various messageboards on the internet, I'm still under the impression that it could either be oxygen sensor(s) or a new suggestion that the EGR valve and hose leading up to it commonly gets clogged and causes problems. This could cause the ECU to not engage the S.C. after the "warm-up" cycle is complete.

[Pagz]

Excellent!,that def sounds like the clutch and bypass ar OK!!,something is giving the ECU a reason not to shut the bypass!...it could def be one of the reasons you said!...i never had an EGR valve though so cant help you on that one!

Paul

[Proven Guilty]

update:

I cleaned out the EGR tube extensively, and sprayed out the valve with carb cleaner, and it seemed to help ever so slightly with throttle response and gas mileage, but supercharger still decides to disengage.

i finally broke down and ordered a new breather hose, oxygen sensor (upstream bank1) and diagnostic probe (downstream) to see if it clears code P0410. the car has 98k miles on it now, so i think they're both due, and my breather hose is cracked at the fitting, and not connected at all anymore, so the gas is venting to open air (starting to make a mess on the valve cover) /sigh

on the bright side, i ordered the parts from alleuropeanautoparts.com and their pricing was excellent once again. i called the dealer today for a quote - and the compairison for genuine bosch parts was spot-on:

Your shopping cart Contains the following.

Qty Brand Sku Description Retail Price Core Total
1.00 AAA:OES B2010-163174 Breather Hose 11.50 11.28 0.00 11.28
1.00 AAA:BOS C5010-88348 Oxygen Sensor 200.00 120.91 0.00 120.91
1.00 AAA:BOS C5010-88347 Oxygen Sensor 200.00 120.91 0.00 120.91

Core Charges: 0.00
Subtotal: 253.10
Additional Shipping Charge: 0.00 Shipping - UPS Ground Residential: 0.00
Total Weight ( 0.90 pounds ):
NV residents pay 7.00 %: 0.00
Order Total: 253.10

[sirwhite4]

did the o2 sensor fix the problem?

[etan75]

I had the same problem nearly two years ago in my 2000 C230 Kompressor. My mechanic replaced the actuator valve, the flap that opens/closes to allow air flow into the super charger. After that repair, the car ran perfectly, up until I had to replace the mass air-flow sensor.

Aside from those two repairs, my C230 runs fine.