c class race car

[newbenz2]

Was this car a m104 engine? If so anyone know bore and stroke or even what size the motor was? Also Anyone know information on the redline of the motor? What horsepower did this motor put out?
Thanks,
Kevin

[kameraguy]

AFAIK it was a V6, not m104. I did not hear of them using the m104 for any w202 racecar, but i hope I am wrong about that.

[newbenz2]

Okay.. Thanks the reason I asked is because Im building a m104 motor up and I figured If I found the redline on a race motor I could have cams made that were not very high lift and build the botom end strong enough to be boosted... Im building a stroker 2.8 up to either a 3.6 or a 3.8 and I really want it to scream... I would like to find the highest the m104 can redline so It give me an idea for my turbo size and what is safe....
Thanks
Kevin

[Pagz]

Sounds like a great project Kevin!...I'll use this thread to continue from your PM.


How much money do you think this project will cost?

[newbenz2]

truley Im not sure..... Im building this up and proably putin in a 201.... Im doing to turbo manifld and full custom intake myself... I have access to cnc machines... Ill keep a tab out houw much everything costs okay??
Kevin

[Pagz]

Kewl!,
So the plan is to use the same crank as the 3.6L and have custom rods and pistons made to a suitable compression for the gas you will be running??

[newbenz2]

My plan is to have like 8.5 to 1 compression prob only run 93 to 118 octane fuel... It will have a ams editon garett 37r with meth/water injection after 15 psi of boost and will hold 30psi to redline. On the intercooler I will have a nitrous sprayer to cool the charge of air even more... Im shooting to have about a 750 to 800hp m104... It will be set up for a single 70mm throotle bodie with 750cc injectors along with a full aem ems standalone fuel manigment system I will make an adapter plate for the trasmition and probably run a tko600 out of a ford (five speed). I'm not sure about the rear end yet.... but it will be a full street car that can be brough to the track and tear it up...

[newbenz2]

My plan is to have like 8.5 to 1 compression prob only run 93 to 118 octane fuel... It will have a ams editon garett 37r with meth/water injection after 15 psi of boost and will hold 30psi to redline. On the intercooler I will have a nitrous sprayer to cool the charge of air even more... Im shooting to have about a 750 to 800hp m104... It will be set up for a single 70mm throotle bodie with 750cc injectors along with a full aem ems standalone fuel manigment system I will make an adapter plate for the trasmition and probably run a tko600 out of a ford (five speed). I'm not sure about the rear end yet.... but it will be a full street car that can be brough to the track and tear it up...

[newbenz2]

My plan is to have like 8.5 to 1 compression prob only run 93 to 118 octane fuel... It will have a ams editon garett 37r with meth/water injection after 15 psi of boost and will hold 30psi to redline. On the intercooler I will have a nitrous sprayer to cool the charge of air even more... Im shooting to have about a 750 to 800hp m104... It will be set up for a single 70mm throotle bodie with 750cc injectors along with a full aem ems standalone fuel manigment system I will make an adapter plate for the trasmition and probably run a tko600 out of a ford (five speed). I'm not sure about the rear end yet.... but it will be a full street car that can be brough to the track and tear it up...

[Pagz]

Wow thats HUGE:D...alittle out of my league!
good luck!,keep us updated!...

[newbenz2]

No problem.... It should be a fun project for a 18yr old kid.. haha

[Pagz]

It will be for sure!...
have you re-built engines before?...if so which ones?

[newbenz2]

I have never rebuilt a mercedes engine before so this will be an experiance.. I have rebuilt many big block and small block drag motors and a few briggs and straton but that about it... I wa duel enrolled in highschool and left everyday in the middle of the day and went to m-tec. Basically I was going to college in high school and all I tookj was cnc classes.. from basic to advanced 3d... Also I have taken a few wleding classes and can weld like crazy... So i figured I would start a project ... My dad (waybomb) is going to watch over my sholders on this one and help me out a bit also..
Thanks
Kevin

[Pagz]

NICE!,i'll be watchin progress for sure!...lots of pics also please;)

[newbenz2]

Ill take some tommarow Of how it look taken apart... It has 6 bent valves and one broken cam shaft but otherwise it looks great...
Kevin

[Pagz]

what was the point of failure?...timing chain,woodruff key or cam?

[newbenz2]

Im not really sure. The guy had his machinc put a new timing chain on it and some how he screwed it up. The cam grear broke off right the the journal and then 6 vavles were down and got bent by the piston... have not gotten the lower end apart yet though...
By a chance do you know where I could find a crank from a 350 sd or sdl? I cant find one anywhere and posted soem things on mercedesshop but got nothing.....
Thanks
Kevin

[rollinrealbig]

snapped camshaft + bent valves - my dad rebuilt an engine with the same problem, this one guy wanted to put in a new timing chain and I guess he didnt want to pay the price my dad was gonna charge him ... so in the end he paid like 5x more to get everything to work. idiot

i dnt know all the engines by heart but it was a c280 inline 6.

by the way good luck w/the project i also want to kno how it goes! ;)

[Pagz]

Im not sure what an SD of SDl is?

[newbenz2]

350sdl and a 350sd is a turbo diesel motor. From what I have read I guess its a direct drop in to the m104 motor.. It will bring my 2.8 up to 3.6 ;) I cant seem to find one anywhere..... If anyone knows of one or knows where to find one please let me know...
Kevin

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by newbenz2
350sdl and a 350sd is a turbo diesel motor. From what I have read I guess its a direct drop in to the m104 motor.. It will bring my 2.8 up to 3.6 ;) I cant seem to find one anywhere..... If anyone knows of one or knows where to find one please let me know...
Kevin

arnt those engines a 5-cyl ?? or maybe Im talking about something else. ,, ?

[newbenz2]

the 3.5 are 6 cyl.. your prob thinking of the 300sd thats a 5 cyl

[rollinrealbig]

Ya I am, I was at a junk yard one day and found a 300 Turbo D. I hella wanted to see if that turbo & manifold would somehow ghetto fit my M111, but it was a 5cyl and the muffler ports were alot smaller not to mention to widly spread apart. it was worth a try though, imagine if it did fit ... then that would be cutting through so much work, no custom header, no water lines just oil and a cheap turbo!

[newbenz2]

lol that would be ghetto fab lol but non the less cool

[rollinrealbig]

Id be super satisfied with about 250HP and have the torque maybe a little over, that would be damn sick!!!!

id just get that turbo/manifold, add IC and pipes w/intake, then larger injecters, exhaust and im DONE! all under 1K.

[rollinrealbig]

hmmm ... maybe ill take another trip the the yards, see if maybe there is a way to make that happen . ?

[newbenz2]

maybe look at a mercedes 6cyl diesel and maybe that would be a little better fit than the 5 cyl:D

[c280nz]

you have a bit more reading and learning to do on limitations to the m104 yet young grass-hopper ;)

[c55m8o]

Forgive my ignorance for a moment ... which engine is the M104?

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by c55m8o
Forgive my ignorance for a moment ... which engine is the M104?

I-6 DOHC 4v...the loveliest being the 3.606 version, 10.5 compression ratio 276HP just short of 6K

[c55m8o]

thank you Renn, just wanted to make sure.

newbenz2, like c280nz says, there's some 'issues' in high boost situations with that engine. To get right to it, the head gasket. The distance between the cylinders is so small, the gaskets blow out easily.

The guy that did my motor swap is a benz 'tuner'. He's a seasoned senior MB service tech. He bought a wrecked twin turbo'ed C36, and built a turbo-specific engine himself from scratch to replace the original, using a bigger single turbo with Motec controlling the explosions. While working on my car he was lamenting about not being able to find head gaskets that will hold up under high boost. He knows his engine has a lot of potential for power, but those gaskets are keeping him from achieving it. Just a few months ago he was on the dyno tuning with his Motec, doing low load pulls, when it blew out yet again.

...however, if you solve that not so little issue, I'll definitely pass on whose gasket you are using to him! ;)

p.s. didn't the 'real' racer use a 4-cyl engine? or was that the W201?

[newbenz2]

ferrea is making my head gasket..... They said I should be able to hold 30 without it blowing out with 8.5 to 1 compresion pistons...

[Pagz]

Nice!,
I get a strange feeling my Stock item wont go the full distance either...i guess we will find its limitations and have one custom made when need be!

[c280nz]

Originally posted by newbenz2
ferrea is making my head gasket..... They said I should be able to hold 30 without it blowing out with 8.5 to 1 compresion pistons...
i will be amazed if it can handle that sort of abuse, thats some serious psi at that compression ratio.
i beleive the crank you talk of is out of a sdl350 turbo diesel and it is not a direct bolt in, it requires modification

[newbenz2]

Everything I have read.. it is suposed to be a direct fit...

[c280nz]

read where? have you got some links to where you are getting all your information, i am also interested in m104 information.
mercedes shop forum?

[benzboy]

Everything I have read says the 350 diesel crank is what AMG themselves used for the C36 AMG