Opinions on my next head unit

[rman]

Okay, so I'm sold on going double-din. I have a few questions, namely when i tried to swap dins of the climate control and single-din stereo, the HU wouldn't fit because of clearance issues up top. how are all you fitting double dins? I guess i have to look at it a little more closesly and figure out how to mod the space to work.

Anyhow, more importantly, I think I am going to get this HU

Alpine IVA-W200
http://images.northsideh2.com/www.northsideh2.com/IVA-W200.jpg

I can get it for around $800 shipped, I just have to wait a little while to make sure i really want it, and to see if i find a better deal. I sold my kenwood kvt-715dvd....which was a 7" vs. this 6.5"

What do you all think? Any other suggestions? Maybe a single-din flip out or 2 single-dins, one dedicated monitor and one standard HU wtih dvd capability?

[rman]

maybe find a single-din HU with dvd capability and no screen for 400ish, and use the other money for mods. then add a screen later? ugh too many options.

I rarely watch movies either, but it's part of the whole package. Why drive a benz when I could have gotten a kia, right? Both get me to work and back.

[1995c280]

i went a little easier route so very little mods would have to be made. i put a single din head unit (one with aux inputs/outputs). then i removed my ashtray and coin tray/cassette holder and put a 7.2 inch screen there. perfect fit exactly from one side to the other. had to squeeze it in a little so a 7 inch would work as well. then i put a planet audio 1/2 din dvd player in the glove box seeing as how you can't use our small ass glove box's for anything else. it's a very compact dvd player and fits great. i got pics on my car domain of everything but the dvd player. and i actually fit a planet audio 5 band parametric EQ under the screen which fits great between the screen and the tray in front of the shifter which is where i drilled through and mounted all my flip switches so i have control over the whole system from right there.

just some ideas although fitting a double din would look excellent also but i choose a more simple route on the project!

Jason

[gchild]

Originally posted by 1995c280
i went a little easier route so very little mods would have to be made. i put a single din head unit (one with aux inputs/outputs). then i removed my ashtray and coin tray/cassette holder and put a 7.2 inch screen there. perfect fit exactly from one side to the other. had to squeeze it in a little so a 7 inch would work as well. then i put a planet audio 1/2 din dvd player in the glove box seeing as how you can't use our small ass glove box's for anything else. it's a very compact dvd player and fits great. i got pics on my car domain of everything but the dvd player. and i actually fit a planet audio 5 band parametric EQ under the screen which fits great between the screen and the tray in front of the shifter which is where i drilled through and mounted all my flip switches so i have control over the whole system from right there.

just some ideas although fitting a double din would look excellent also but i choose a more simple route on the project!

Jason


interesting set up, any pictures you could post?

[1995c280]

sure go to............
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2333589

(the shifter does NOT block the view of the screen when driving which is when i mostly use it, HAHA!)

Jason

[rman]

Originally posted by 1995c280
sure go to............
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2333589

(the shifter does NOT block the view of the screen when driving which is when i mostly use it, HAHA!)

Jason

looks great!!!

i thought about doing a setup like that as well, but i would much rather have the screen at eye level (okay, more like chest level)

i decided to ditch the whole dvd thing for now, and i ordered up an alpine cda 9857 with ipod cable.
I've rocked the kenwood flip up dvd for almost a year now, and while it's the greatest in pimp status, it's really not used a whole lot and not practical for me at the moment.

Later on when I get more involved with the stereo i'll probalbly pick up some crazy ass alpine or eclipse dvd/nav unit.

Now i've got some extra dough for some front components, and maybe another amp.

[Alps]

personally i would go with the iva-310R ( actually i have this) as the 200 is too prominent and liable to theft!

the iva-310 folds away and has a detachable faceplate, and looks good in the 202 esp if you have carbon dash

[rman]

i looked at the iva 310, but i really wanted a double din over a flip up. I had a kenwood flip up and sold it last wednesday, and wanted the cleanliness of a double din monitor.

i just said fuck it and got a cd player, i really don't want to spend $800-$1200 on a dvd player that i use 5% of the time. I'd rather bump music :D

[unHookt]

Does anyone have this unit installed:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-olStD1OX3ms/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=130DEHP980

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2006/130/h130DEHP980-f_cd_IDS.jpeg

I already have NAV on my HP PocketPC PDA (Tom Tom + the bluetooth GPS receiver all cost me under $200!) but now I'm looking for a receiver with Bluetooth cell phone integration.

Anyone have any thoughts on this bad boy?

[IamJanuar]

Originally posted by unHookt
Does anyone have this unit installed:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-olStD1OX3ms/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=130DEHP980

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2006/130/h130DEHP980-f_cd_IDS.jpeg

I already have NAV on my HP PocketPC PDA (Tom Tom + the bluetooth GPS receiver all cost me under $200!) but now I'm looking for a receiver with Bluetooth cell phone integration.

Anyone have any thoughts on this bad boy?

Ever since pioneer starts putting 24-bit burr brown DAC in their components, I always tell people that they will not go wrong with pioneer.
As for the unit I still couldn't find the difference with http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_291159553_tab=B,00.html?compName =PNA_V3_ProductDetailsComponent
They are only $20 diff though.

[unHookt]

Your link goes to the very same product that I'm linking to!

Do you or does anyone have this installed?

One more question - the manual indicates that the frequency spectrum only goes down to 50 Hz. Does that mean that the bass signal via the subwoofer line out only goes down to this (relatively high, for bass) frequency? That would be bad...

[IamJanuar]

Not really. Yours is DEH-P9800BT, the link i showed is DEH-P980BT. One 0 - $20 difference, not sure what's the diff.

[unHookt]

Looked at the manual and the specs are pretty much the same, at least as far as SQ is involved. Frequency range is only 50 Hz to 15 kHz, and THD is a relatively high 5%. I can't imagine the audio quality to be very good...what would the benefit of the Burr Brown DAC be?

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by unHookt
Looked at the manual and the specs are pretty much the same, at least as far as SQ is involved. Frequency range is only 50 Hz to 15 kHz, and THD is a relatively high 5%. I can't imagine the audio quality to be very good...what would the benefit of the Burr Brown DAC be?

Just bragging rights for entry-level audiophiles who have heard the "Burr Brown" claim tossed around. You can get the 24-bit Burr Brown DACs (bare chip) free from Texas Instruments if you tell them you are an electrical engineering student. It's not an expensive component, and in the end, the sound quality depends not only on the DAC processor itself, but the architecture around it.

The Burr Brown in my McIntosh MX-406 is only 20-bit, but I'd put money on its sound quality over any Pioneer/Premier/Carrozzeria unit.

The 24-bit Sigma-Delta DAC in previous generation Eclipse units has produced competition worthy cleanliness, and even an Eclipse CD8443 with 3 year old technology will blow any current Pioneer out of the water in terms of sound quality.

And yet the 20-bit McIntosh is still cleaner than the Eclipse.

Sooo... in other words, it's become a marketing tool. With all due respect to Pioneer, they are my favorite bang for the buck. You won't get cleaner controls and features in their price range from any other stereo manufacturer, in my opinion. And their competition setup (ODR/P9) is unmatched in its price range. You won't get more processing flexibility without spending more than double on an equivalent Alpine setup. But that unit aside, if you aren't chasing the utmost in sound quality, and you are sensitive about your audio budget, you can't go wrong with Pioneer.

And just to be diplomatic about other brands mentioned in this post, Eclipse units sporting the dual-laser are absolutely positively the most skip resistant units on the market, bar none. I used to demo the CD8454 by taking my pocket knife to a CD, and it would still play, whereas the equivalent Alpine unit won't even pick up the track list.

And Alpine has the best iPod support for a relatively high end unit, since a lot of "high end" brands don't believe in MP3 sound quality.

-Ray

[unHookt]

ray-

thanks for the reply. a very concise and clear explanation.

where do the alpine HUs fit into the McIntosh, Eclipse spectrum you describe below, as far as SQ is concerned?

also, how do the oem HU and cd changer compare to these after market options? I have the Bose system in my '99, if that makes any difference.

[VIP_MBZ]

In the end it comes down to different strokes for different folks... Alpine does have an entry level as well, but they are most well known for their head units in the $300+ range, which offer the features they are known for, such as native ipod support, multicolored easy to read display, reasonable EQ and crossover settings, and high powered preamp output.

I haven't looked at Eclipse really since '05, as I'm not fond of their latest design, but I'm sure their engineering philosophy is still the same, where they focus on providing the most sound quality possible in their given price range. Their controls and layout have always been utilitarian in the past, but I know they are a lot more colorful now, and even have detchable face plates.

I would consider Alpine and Eclipse both very high quality manufacturers, and the decision between them should be based mostly on interface and aesthetics, as either one would be able to adequately provide a good sound experience.

If you are into more detailed processor settings, Alpine does have the PXA-H701 add-on which while it accepts input from any audio source, it operates the most noise-free when paired with an Alpine unit. So if you eventually want to go that route, I would lean towards Alpine.

If you go double-din, the Eclipse AVN series (esp 5495 w/30gb hard drive) is nothing but clean-clean-clean and can make any car look like it has a factory Lexus navigation system (although the '06+ Lexus now have a newer version of the software and a half-inch bigger screen than currently available Eclipse AVN).

The McIntosh MX-406 is more of a pure audiophile unit, which doesn't have ANY fancy features at all. Just a rock solid transport, DAC, and preamp. Even the volume knob is analog. The only neat feature is that matched with a McIntosh amplifier, you get the PowerGuard feature which automatically reduces volume during clipping to prevent hardware damage. I used to have the Eclipse AV8533, which is a cool multimedia head unit with 7" touchscreen and DTS/DD/DVD-A capability, but after a while I just wanted serious audio. The MX-406 is unfortunately pricey, at around $1000 msrp, sometimes marked up due to its rarity.

Regarding the OEM system... I will say that ANY well-tuned aftermarket system, even based on mediocre components, will sound better than MOST high-end OEM systems, even Bose. And if you compare a well-tuned aftermarket system based on high end components, then OEM is no contest. My brother's Mark Levinson system in his '06 GS300 is nowhere near as clean and well defined as mine. Good OEM systems are designed to be efficient in their design, but when you play full range music very loudly, there is NO replacement for a shitload of clean power.

-Ray


Originally posted by unHookt
ray-

thanks for the reply. a very concise and clear explanation.

where do the alpine HUs fit into the McIntosh, Eclipse spectrum you describe below, as far as SQ is concerned?

also, how do the oem HU and cd changer compare to these after market options? I have the Bose system in my '99, if that makes any difference.

[unHookt]

This has to be the most informative series of posts that I've read on the topic in some time, and I'm really grateful for your responses.

I just had the opportunity to listen to the Mark Levinson in a brand new IS350, and it was extremely clear and bright. Then I hopped back into my 202 with the Bose system and was thoroughly depressed by what I was listening to.

Originally, my intention was to swap out the stock HU with a blue-tooth enabled system, getting some much needed functionality (handsfree phone) and some improvement in sound quality at the same time.

Now, after listening to the Mark Levinson system, I've changed courses and decided on replacing the stock HU with something that provides decidedly better sound quality. I would be leaving the Bose amp and speakers in place though. If I purchased an Alpine or Eclipse HU and connected it to my stock Bose amp and speakers as described in other posts on this forum, would I be getting substantial improvements in the SQ, vs. what I am listening to now with the OEM Bose HU/system, overall?

BTW, for the bluetooth hands-free route, I'll likely be installing the Motorola handsfree kit, instead.

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by unHookt
This has to be the most informative series of posts that I've read on the topic in some time, and I'm really grateful for your responses.

I just had the opportunity to listen to the Mark Levinson in a brand new IS350, and it was extremely clear and bright. Then I hopped back into my 202 with the Bose system and was thoroughly depressed by what I was listening to.

The Levinson system, especially in the LS430, is probably the best OEM system I've heard in a car that costs less than $100,000. The RR Phantom has a cleaner system, but it might be a result of being in a more sound-dampened environment... but... at $300,000 -- what do you expect...



Now, after listening to the Mark Levinson system, I've changed courses and decided on replacing the stock HU with something that provides decidedly better sound quality. I would be leaving the Bose amp and speakers in place though. If I purchased an Alpine or Eclipse HU and connected it to my stock Bose amp and speakers as described in other posts on this forum, would I be getting substantial improvements in the SQ, vs. what I am listening to now with the OEM Bose HU/system, overall?


If I'm not mistaken, the factory Bose system uses special fiber optic interconnects which aren't compatible with conventional ones? I could be wrong, but in all honesty, the nuances you hear in varying head unit quality won't be apparent if you leave everything else Bose. I did this in my dad's Pathfinder with Bose, and while the whole system did get louder (due to the 8v Eclipse preamp), we really didn't get a big increase in quality until we did the whole system.

If it turns out you can upgrade just the head unit, however, it's not entirely fruitless, because from there you can take baby steps towards upgrading the system, such as adding a decent subwoofer and amplifier to beefen up the sub-bass range where the OEM system falls short. This alone will make the entire system feel more "full." After that point, you'll probably want to beefen up the front stage so that it doesn't have to compete with the sub(s).

-Ray

[unHookt]

the alpine cda-9857 allows you to bypass/disable the internal amplifier, which should allow for a direct connect to the Bose system without the need for converters, etc.

I already have an infinity basslink in the trunk, but it's connected via taps to the rear deck speaker connects. I'd love to be able to deliver a clean signal to the sub straight out of the HU via RCA, preferrably something with volume control.

[VIP_MBZ]

Oh, if you all you need is a regular preamp output, pretty much any head unit over $120 should have at least one pair. Disabling internal amplification is a nice feature to reduce noise and heat, but not necessary to operate a preamp output.

-Ray

[unHookt]

Nope, i'm not looking for a cheap unit. I need:

1. cleaner sound output with lower total harmonic distortion
2. better signal to noise ratio than current OEM unit
3. clean signal to my subwoofer - NOT from speaker/line-level taps to rear deck
4. ability to control sub volume from HU

bypassing the internal amp means I won't have to deal with a signal converter, line noise, or worrying about overloading my stock Bose amp due to wattage or voltage concerns. but does that also mean that I won't see a substantial improvement in audio quality?

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by unHookt
Nope, i'm not looking for a cheap unit. I need:

1. cleaner sound output with lower total harmonic distortion
2. better signal to noise ratio than current OEM unit
3. clean signal to my subwoofer - NOT from speaker/line-level taps to rear deck
4. ability to control sub volume from HU

bypassing the internal amp means I won't have to deal with a signal converter, line noise, or worrying about overloading my stock Bose amp due to wattage or voltage concerns. but does that also mean that I won't see a substantial improvement in audio quality?

Like I said, any head unit over $120 will do everything you are asking. Less than 1% of head units actually have a switch to disable the internal amplification -- this doesn't mean they don't have clean preamp outputs, it just means that the internal amp powers up whether or not you connect something to it. High end head units do not contain internal amplification at all, so there is no need for switch. One of the few I can think of that actually has switching is Eclipse CD8443.

Regardless, I think you are splitting hairs because even if you buy a $2500 Alpine F#1 Status head unit, if you connect it to your factory Bose amp/speakers, it will still suck compared to a stock Lexus system. Here's the honest truth: If you want a truly high end system, you have to get rid of ALL of the factory components, and if you buy JUST a high end head unit, once you listen to your system you will wonder where your money went because it makes the absolute least amount of difference in the overall sound versus changing speakers and amplifiers. I'd rather have a crappy head unit and a good amp than a premium head unit and a Bose amp.

However that is just my opinion, and it is your car/money/ears. Best of luck,

-Ray

[unHookt]

So, you're saying that the stock bose amp and speakers are crap?

Also, why is it that everyone here seems to think that replacing the HU in the Bose setup will result in a significant improvement? That's the impression I've gotten...

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by unHookt
So, you're saying that the stock bose amp and speakers are crap?


It's all in perspective. Compared to the regular MB system, it's great. Fantastic. Worlds better.

But yes, it's crap compared to $1000 worth of stuff you can get from your local Best Buy.



Also, why is it that everyone here seems to think that replacing the HU in the Bose setup will result in a significant improvement? That's the impression I've gotten...

It's definitely the first step in the right direction, but just the beginning of a very long path. The head unit by itself will not make a significant difference in ANY system. Only when you've already achieved the tone you want out of your speakers and amplifiers can you really start fine tuning by changing the source. I'm not saying that it won't make any difference... it just doesn't make sense to get a high end head unit if you're not planning on using it as a basis for an entire tuned aftermarket system.

Rather than theorizing, here's a real world example...

The Eclipse CD7000 is an awesome CD head unit with clean and powerful preamp outputs. Swapping out your factory unit for this one will cost you about $700. The difference in sound clarity will be apparent when you are listening to very high quality recordings at a dead stop in a garage in fair weather with the car off. Once the car is in motion, the difference will hardly be apparent to you, and will definitely not be apparent to any passenger who wasn't aware that you changed anything.

In contrast, an Alpine CDA-9856 will only run you $200, and with its same preamp output configuration, will mate to your Bose system with the same ease as the more expensive unit. The difference in sound quality between the two units will similarly not be very apparent unless you are in ideal listening conditions (no road noise, engine off, etc). However, with the $500 you didn't spend on the head unit, you can also purchase a JL Audio 300/2 and a 10w6 subwoofer in a sealed box. And how audible will this difference be? Night and day. The difference is so apparent that you can tell from outside of the car, across the street.

So why is the Eclipse head unit so much more expensive? Lots of stuff -- but a 24-bit DAC, onboard processing with parametric EQ, dual laser transport, gold connectors, and all kinds of other details that are wasted on a Bose system that doesn't even have a flat frequency response, let alone enough resolution to make these differences audible.

Sooo... if you do eventually plan on ditching the Bose system, then go ahead and get the best head unit you can afford. You will eventually benefit from all of its high end features. Otherwise, your budget is more wisely allocated on things that make a bigger difference.

-Ray

[unHookt]

Thanks for the detailed response Ray. As always, sound advice. Much appreciated!