99 c230k..looking for power

[matt169]

could anyone give me a suggestion for getting more power out of my 99 c230k. i have been looking around the sites but cant seem to find the answer.

[trymonlam]

welcome!

u sure u've been looking around? there's plenty of threads about getting more power from 230k. u can consider getting a new chip, some pulleys, etc.

there's a red search button on top of the site, use it to get the info u need. and yes, we've got everything u ever need.:D

[Proven Guilty]

http://www.aspracing.com/import.htm#Mercedes

a crank pulley is probably the #1 power upgrade for the kompressor engines. the ASP pulley raises the boost on the stock supercharger from roughly 5.5lbs of boost to 8-9lbs of boost. most engines require colder spark plugs, and relocating your MAS sensor to a horizontal position instead of vertical off the I.C. from this mod, which is a very simple task.

after that, you can start looking at options such as exhaust headers, full cat-back exhaust, hi flow catalytic convertors, cold air intake to replace your stock air box (requires extra modification due to the bypass valve attatched to it). when all that is said and done, a custom tuned aftermarket ECU for those mods will really fine tune it.

all in all, expect to put about $3600-4000 in for 36-50hp to the wheels as an average return.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by trymonlam
welcome!

u sure u've been looking around? there's plenty of threads about getting more power from 230k. u can consider getting a new chip, some pulleys, etc.

there's a red search button on top of the site, use it to get the info u need. and yes, we've got everything u ever need.:D

that and the red search button!
http://home.comcast.net/~tss.hsi/search.jpg

[therock2689]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
http://www.aspracing.com/import.htm#Mercedes

a crank pulley is probably the #1 power upgrade for the kompressor engines. the ASP pulley raises the boost on the stock supercharger from roughly 5.5lbs of boost to 8-9lbs of boost. most engines require colder spark plugs, and relocating your MAS sensor to a horizontal position instead of vertical off the I.C. from this mod, which is a very simple task.

after that, you can start looking at options such as exhaust headers, full cat-back exhaust, hi flow catalytic convertors, cold air intake to replace your stock air box (requires extra modification due to the bypass valve attatched to it). when all that is said and done, a custom tuned aftermarket ECU for those mods will really fine tune it.

all in all, expect to put about $3600-4000 in for 36-50hp to the wheels as an average return.

Damn, HP to dollar ration is insane. I know you can get 100+ HP on many other cars for about that same price. Thats crazy.


there's a red search button on top of the site, use it to get the info u need. and yes, we've got everything u ever need.
I beg to differ. One, you wouldnt have anymore forums if you had everything and 2. I just search for relocating MAS to horizontal pos. and found nothing. So how go you go about that mod, i would like to know also.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by therock2689
Damn, HP to dollar ration is insane. I know you can get 100+ HP on many other cars for about that same price. Thats crazy.


I couldn't agree more, however that 100hp (typical hp numbers are measured at the crank, rather than at the wheels) is probably every bit of 60whp, so comparative for the HP to dollar ratio with our small 4 cylinder engines it isin't that bad. It still kills me to know that my old Chevy Small block 350 I was able to fully rebuild for $150 on stock internals, or that I went for the full .60 stroker kit, and forged pistons for under $600. All the machine work for less than $1800 to make it safe to rev to 6800rpm and even fab'd a rollercam setup in my old hydraulic lifter 4-bolt main "0.10" block. She puts down every bit of 400horsepower and is safe for nitrous for less than $2500. However, when its all said and done; you still have just a Chevy V8. :cool:


Originally posted by therock2689
I just search for relocating MAS to horizontal pos. and found nothing. So how go you go about that mod, i would like to know also.

The search button isin't always perfect, and sometimes takes a little finesse with the right strings. the mass air sensor (MAS) is commonly called the Mass Air Flow Meter as well (MAF). searching for MAS Relocating, MAS Relocation, MAF relocating, and MAF relocation all turn up different results. This one provided the most relevant information:
MAF relocation (http://www.club202.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=189175&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

The parts needed to relocate the MAS to a horizontal position can be easily pieced together with Home Depot (tm) parts. Actual pictures on the installation by Linh can be found on benzworld forums (Linh and Buelwinkle are to credit for their efforts in the design of the ASP pulley in competition with the no-longer-sold-and-it-pisses-me-off Kleemann pulley kit)

A link to the installation can be found here:
Tom "buelwinkle" / Linh's guide to MAF relocation (http://www.maicastle.com/iamslam/maf/MafReloc.html)

The benefit of relocation of the MAF is that it helps to eliminate a type of "turbulence" in the 2,000-3,500rpm range that is present on the M111 C230K. It's suprising how much more confident power and torque of the car feels at the lower rpms after this simple modification.

All in all, I don't think those of us that chose to modify our cars are really going for the best HP to Dollar ratio as much as we are simply improving the horsepower of a bastardized stepchild the W202 really was (breaking away from the pure snub-nosed luxury line, and got its feet wet in the sporty line). In any event, a W202 with 250hp at the wheels and a 5-speed automatic tranny is a lot more fun than you might think!

Hope this helps! :D

[therock2689]

I have seen HP gains of 100HP at teh wheels for ~4g or less. i think its exspesive. OH well, thats what you get for having an MB i guess

Rock

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by therock2689
I have seen HP gains of 100HP at teh wheels for ~4g or less. i think its exspesive. OH well, thats what you get for having an MB i guess

Rock

other than an american car v6 or v8, i need to see some proof :p

edit: hell, any 4 cylinder period!

[therock2689]

http://www.turbo-kits.com/talon_turbo_kits.html
http://www.turbo-kits.com/focus_turbo_kits.html this one has a dyno chart
http://www.turbo-kits.com/s2000_turbo_kits.html that one is a bit more then 4g
http://www.turbo-kits.com/protege_turbo_kits.htmlhttp://www.turbo-kits.com/240SX_turbo_kits.html
http://www.turbo-kits.com/golf_III_turbo_kits.html

There are a few from one site. MOst if not all of those numbers are at the wheels and teh only one over 4g is teh S2000 kit.

[Proven Guilty]

i don't know what they're smoking. 8PSI will NOT put down 100hp to the wheels, let alone a stock engine with zero modifications :p

edit: if you look at the dyno as well, these are only producing 201hp, and its not specified what type of dyno it was done on, or if its crank vs wheel hp. a stock c230k is pretty damn close to that as-is :)

-after looking at those numbers on the specified vehicles, the horsepower to dollar ratio isin't any better, and in most cases worse!

[therock2689]

mell, maybe not 100, but maybe. Anyway you put it, MB HP is so much more expensive then most other HP. But, corect me if im wrong, but teh m111K motor produces ~189hp at 5.5lb of boost. and a c220, about the same i think, ~147hp no boost. that a differnce of 40 with 5lbs of boost though and auto trans. run taht though a manual trans and you will get higher numbers. In that case, that makes ~100hp at 8-9lbs of boost possible.
Im sure tha author of this thread didnt think it would take off like this.


Rock

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by therock2689
mell, maybe not 100, but maybe. Anyway you put it, MB HP is so much more expensive then most other HP. But, corect me if im wrong, but teh m111K motor produces ~189hp at 5.5lb of boost. and a c220, about the same i think, ~147hp no boost. that a differnce of 40 with 5lbs of boost though and auto trans. run taht though a manual trans and you will get higher numbers. In that case, that makes ~100hp at 8-9lbs of boost possible.
Im sure tha author of this thread didnt think it would take off like this.


Rock

-The ASP pulley bumps it up to about 8.5lbs of boost (3-3.5lbs over stock) for $600-700 depending if you add colder iridium plugs (recommended) and an upgraded Bosch Fuel Preassure Regulator, and upgrades about 20whp.
-A full exhaust system around $1800 will only add between 10-20 HP, runs roughly and that's being generous.
-A cold air intake will allow more low-end torque, especially with relocating the MAF after the IC on a 230k, wich will run you about $300 for a high end kit and add at best 5HP.
-A custom tuned chip to fine tune the ECU for all of these changes will run you $600 for a moderate one

All of this is using stock internals, and will put you roughly 230-250whp, depending greatly on other ambient factors. This is on the stock internals, with no modification to the internals, while you have a bord focus 2.0L you just dumped $3,800 into that is going to explode from poor fuel to air ratios, extra stress on the bottom end of the block that wasn't built for any boost whatsoever (8lbs is light for a turbo, but will add a significant amount of compression) and probably wouldn't even run on pump gas (would require 110 octane racing fuel).

HP to $$ ratio still doesn't add up. Adding power to any 4-cylinder isin't going to be cheap, but I don't think a Mercedes is any worse when you modify the existing drivetrain than any other car. Had you found a comparable turbo that puts out 11-14lbs of boost for a C230k, then you'd be up near the 300whp range.

Paul/23K's project, he's shooting for 300whp, but with the amount of effort, and science he's put into his project, I honestly think he's going to be blowing his tranny and rear end out when it feels the 400hp launch from his 2.3T beast! :bunny:

and we all know it's a substantial amount of money that he put into that project. when compared to the type of money I spent originally on my smallblock chevy V8 that was N/A - i acheived the same horsepower for about $2500, and he probably has that much into his turbo alone.

Different strokes from different folks, and as it's all been covered a million times, I just hope the initial poster had gotten some good ideas and advice to choose what best fits his needs :D

[therock2689]

That is true, you do make a good piont and i hope you see mine, but i dont like MB's that much(srry) at least not extrac power out of. Now teh styling is a whole different story. Im more of a "more go, less show" kind of guy and im into the import tuner scene, teh real one, not slaping a POS "muffler" to teh back of a civic. I inherited my W202 and i have loved it, but i do prefer 350z's and such, srry, but i do love my 202 though.

edit: You can make a "trainwreck" of power out of those chevy V8's N/A. Slap a S/C on that, you will have a hardtime finding tires to hold it down.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by therock2689
That is true, you do make a good piont and i hope you see mine, but i dont like MB's that much(srry) at least not extrac power out of. Now teh styling is a whole different story. Im more of a "more go, less show" kind of guy and im into the import tuner scene, teh real one, not slaping a POS "muffler" to teh back of a civic. I inherited my W202 and i have loved it, but i do prefer #50z's and such, srry, but i do love my 202 though.

edit: You can make a "trainwreck" of power out of those chevy V8's N/A. Slap a S/C on that, you will have a hardtime finding tires to hold it down.

i agree, there are better engines out there to build in terms of substantial horsepower upgrades, where a 2JZ engine, etc can be built much stronger with much more readily available high end super performance parts.

i just feel the mercedes engine blocks get slammed too hard for what it's worth. the focus turbo kit, if it trully added 8lbs of boost would blow the stock head gasket alone from all the added compression (probably runs 10.1:1 stock as-is) and while it may put the power down for two weeks, what good is sinking $4k to blow your engine up? even then, it's still only 201hp (best run on the dyno chart listed on their site) what does it take to catch up to the 240hp as I had covered of the well tuned M111K? after you catch that HP, you'll probably want to add an aluminum flywheel to a 5-speed focus in order to keep up with the aggressive shifting of the 5-speed automatic that packs with the 98-00 W202s :cool:

as for the chevy, i agree on bolting up a supercharger. a mild 7lbs of boost on a build i've done before was freakish, putting it into the 475-500hp range with 525ft/lbs of torque. granted i also went with the vortech aluminum heads, hardened steel crank, race headers and balanced/blueprinted internals with forged pistons. that was about a $5800 project, but i couldn't agree more, even with 12" street slicks on the back of my olds 442 conversion it still loved to break 'em loose!

[therock2689]

Im not trashing teh M11 at all, teh reson HP on a 202 is so expensive is because the 202 tends to be a bit fat. at 4000 lb, its no feather weight, so as you may add 10Hp to a 3000lb car, and you can feel it, at 4000lbs, not as much. Srry let me rephase myself. What i realy ment it is so exspensive because you have to though so much HP at it to get something extrodinary. But if you like to mod your 202, by all means, go for it and good luck.
But damn, 12 inch street slick and you can still light them up, me likey mucho grande.
P.S. where is the kid that start this thread, havent heard from him in a while???


Rock

[matt169]

wow...this is a great discussion, even if i cant understand most of it (i am mechanically handicapped). it would seem that it would be cheaper to put my money into a different merc...now which one will give me the most bang for the buck...including upgrades? on other note i found a place near where i live that does kleeman stuff and they told me that i would be better off ditching the w202 and getting a 320 if i want power. what do you think? And no i didnt expect this kind of response...it has helped

[therock2689]

Originally posted by matt169
wow...this is a great discussion, even if i cant understand most of it (i am mechanically handicapped). it would seem that it would be cheaper to put my money into a different merc...now which one will give me the most bang for the buck...including upgrades? on other note i found a place near where i live that does kleeman stuff and they told me that i would be better off ditching the w202 and getting a 320 if i want power. what do you think? And no i didnt expect this kind of response...it has helped
Teh biggest problem with teh 202 is teh weight. It seems it was not designed to be a speed demon, but a classy transporter. If you want something that quick and all and have some fun, i would say an SLK with teh same motor, becasue the M111(engine code) is a great engine. I see the slk as a quick little sports car with the same upgrades you would have done on teh 202, pully, chip, cold air intake and all that, you will get more bang out of a smaller lighter car.
The 202 is built like a rock, but weights like a bolder.


Rock

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by matt169
wow...this is a great discussion, even if i cant understand most of it (i am mechanically handicapped). it would seem that it would be cheaper to put my money into a different merc...now which one will give me the most bang for the buck...including upgrades? on other note i found a place near where i live that does kleeman stuff and they told me that i would be better off ditching the w202 and getting a 320 if i want power. what do you think? And no i didnt expect this kind of response...it has helped

if you're not afraid of dropping the $600 on the pulley, i'm 100% confident you will be VERY satisfied with the results. other than that, and a K&N drop-in air filter, it would be a great improvement.

like rock suggested, the CLK is lighter and does still carry the same drivetrain (2 door model available as a convertible) which may be more your style.

[omeyhomey]

there are new headers coming out for the 230 engines. If you can wait till about x-mas time or early next year they will be availible. hope that helps.

[matt169]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
there are new headers coming out for the 230 engines. If you can wait till about x-mas time or early next year they will be availible. hope that helps.

it does help. i am in no rush. i am not looking at doing the 1/4 mile in 10 secs...although that would be nice, but i am looking for more punch...the kind that puts your balls in the back seat...and i need a 4 door...kid and wife...

[matt169]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
if you're not afraid of dropping the $600 on the pulley, i'm 100% confident you will be VERY satisfied with the results. other than that, and a K&N drop-in air filter, it would be a great improvement.

like rock suggested, the CLK is lighter and does still carry the same drivetrain (2 door model available as a convertible) which may be more your style.

what kind of pulley? i know nothing of these things.. unfortunately...but willing to learn

[Renn 208]

if 10 seconds without a non-mb engine swap is your goal, be prepared for a long and difficult journey....if you make it, be prepared for serious props.

In any case, here's a little inspiration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujsTZduMZAQ

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by matt169
what kind of pulley? i know nothing of these things.. unfortunately...but willing to learn

i would call ASP Racing about their crank pulley. it changes the ratio and speed of how the belt spins the supercharger, increasing the boost on your C230K from 5.5lbs stock to about 8-8.5lbs of boost. It costs about $650 (core deposit as well on credit card) where they ship you a modified OEM mercedes crank pulley, and once you install it you send them back your old one.

you can find their website at http://www.aspracing.com - just click the dropdown menu for imports > mercedes and you'll find it

-btw your engine block is a listed as "M111 '98-'00" so it will require a little more work (colder iridium spark plugs, upgraded fuel preassure regulator, and relocating your MAS to a horizontal position). i'm basically just repeating myself from the earlier post in this thread. re-read it and let us know what you're plans are :)

[K_Sport Driver]

i'm not sure where I got this, but I thought the kleeman kit boosted ...um...the boost... to 11 psi, the max our superchargers would hold. seems to me like that 2.5 psi difference from the ASP pulley would make quite an improvement. did ASP not go as far as they could, or am I just mistaken with my information?

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by K_Sport Driver
i'm not sure where I got this, but I thought the kleeman kit boosted ...um...the boost... to 11 psi, the max our superchargers would hold. seems to me like that 2.5 psi difference from the ASP pulley would make quite an improvement. did ASP not go as far as they could, or am I just mistaken with my information?

you are spot on with the kleeman kit going the full 11psi. that kit is impossible to find these days unfortunately, but it does in fact give better results. however, after speaking with linh personally - ASP's reasoning behind it is that they wanted to keep the horsepower to durability ratio as high as possible while still making significant improvements in performance.

Their original pulley kit did almost exactly what the keelman did; 10.5lbs of boost, but when compared on the dyno it only yielded about 3-4whp over the 8-8.5lbs of boost. they decided it was not worth the extra strain on the supercharger for marginal gains achieved with the higher boost.

[matt169]

Originally posted by Renn 208
if 10 seconds without a non-mb engine swap is your goal, be prepared for a long and difficult journey....if you make it, be prepared for serious props.

In any case, here's a little inspiration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujsTZduMZAQ


that was awsome....hum...anyone got one for sale for about 10K???

[matt169]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
you are spot on with the kleeman kit going the full 11psi. that kit is impossible to find these days unfortunately, but it does in fact give better results. however, after speaking with linh personally - ASP's reasoning behind it is that they wanted to keep the horsepower to durability ratio as high as possible while still making significant improvements in performance.

Their original pulley kit did almost exactly what the keelman did; 10.5lbs of boost, but when compared on the dyno it only yielded about 3-4whp over the 8-8.5lbs of boost. they decided it was not worth the extra strain on the supercharger for marginal gains achieved with the higher boost.

thanks for the post...that is good to know...durability is important to me. so after the pulley and the other stuff you said about intake and fuel and stuff...is there anything else at the point that would help...like a chip or exhaust...and if so what kind do you think??

[K_Sport Driver]

you pretty much need a chip to get the full potential from an increase in boost. cooling the plugs and allowing more fuel are good, but compared with a re-map or flash of the ECU, they're just drops in the bucket. the cheapest one i've found is the Upsolute chip, which someone on here has, I'm forgetting who. maybe Slammed_C?

and i'm quite shocked that a full 2 psi more only resulted in a 4 whp gain. i'd go kleeman if I could, but, like you said, they're impossible to come by.

[Proven Guilty]

jstrat has a supersprint header for sale in the classifieds section. you'll be amazed how much info you can find on the site by clicking the red search button at the top - i've been trolling these forums for about 6 months now, and my knowledge on what these cars are capable of, how they operate, and how to repair them has gone up ten fold.

if you're looking for upgrades, the classifieds is the place to go since it's one W202 owner to another. some deals are great, and some .. not so great ;)

if you're looking into other things to yield small gains, i would also recommend upgrading to stainless steel braided brakelines with teflon coating to firm up the pedal. you can even replace your stock wheels with ligher weight 3-piece wheels, better tires, and suspension upgrades (anti-roll swaybar kit, urethane bushings, lowering springs and sport shocks like koni externally adjustables).

there's a lot you can do with your car to make it a lot more sporty, and fun to drive without sinking thousands into the drivetrain. you always have to remember, especially with a family; before you make it go fast, its got to be able to stop.

[K_Sport Driver]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
you always have to remember, especially with a family; before you make it go fast, its got to be able to stop.
hey, that's what walls are for.

[matt169]

ya...baby doesnt go in merc anyways...had to buy wife new honda pilot for that...not very sporty but what a tank

[therock2689]

Originally posted by matt169
ya...baby doesnt go in merc anyways...had to buy wife new honda pilot for that...not very sporty but what a tank
I know, i had one back into me and took out the bumper, both headlights, a cornor light, hood, rad support, he was doing like maybe 5. So it is, as i like to say, tankilicious.

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
if you're not afraid of dropping the $600 on the pulley, i'm 100% confident you will be VERY satisfied with the results. other than that, and a K&N drop-in air filter, it would be a great improvement.

like rock suggested, the CLK is lighter and does still carry the same drivetrain (2 door model available as a convertible) which may be more your style.


I am trying to convince a manufacturer to make a pulley for your cars at $350. if so i think it could be worth while. hope that helps.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I am trying to convince a manufacturer to make a pulley for your cars at $350. if so i think it could be worth while. hope that helps.

aluminum or titanium please :D

maybe we can hold slammed_c down long enough to borrow his crank pulley for duplication of the original kleeman kit!

[matt169]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I am trying to convince a manufacturer to make a pulley for your cars at $350. if so i think it could be worth while. hope that helps.

that would be great..i would get one for sure. there are a lot of c230's around and i think a lot of people would buy them. there is enough power for the average guy but to put another 20 to 30 hp to the wheel would be a good thing. this would put off buying a bigger MB. the shop i have been talking to tells me that i am better off getting a 6 or 8 cylinder for them to mod if i want power then to spend money on 230. after seeing the clip of the 2 e55 amgs going head to head on the track doesnt help things

[matt169]

Originally posted by therock2689
I know, i had one back into me and took out the bumper, both headlights, a cornor light, hood, rad support, he was doing like maybe 5. So it is, as i like to say, tankilicious.

lol...probably my wife

[matt169]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I am trying to convince a manufacturer to make a pulley for your cars at $350. if so i think it could be worth while. hope that helps.

how long till your site is done?? looks pretty good so far on the home page. older 55 amg's are coming down in price so that is good for me. i am torn if i go to buy whether to get 55 or c32 amg. comes down to $ and what one you can do more to and still have it last

[therock2689]

Originally posted by matt169
lol...probably my wife
Na, but you might want to concider a back-up cam for her. I think its good for most car, namely SUVs and fastback sports cars, like 350z. IT makes it alot safer and looks bad ass. I would say a ~500$ invstment(thats for some hardcore shit to) is well worth the piece of mind and not having insurence rates go up.


Rock