M104 Crankshaft pulley question

[omeyhomey]

hey guys,

I have an important question. Is there a magnetic TDC (top dead center) pickup on the M104 pulley. I'm looking at it right now and there is one tiny little metal knob sticking out and i fear that it is a TDC electrical pickup. Does anyone know if any sort of sensors read off the stock M104 pulley? If not there there may be hope for you M104 guys. Need to know soon. thanks

[Proven Guilty]

i've been told this was an issue swapping over to an aluminum pulley on the M111 by Jon Pek, who changed out his crank pulley with an aluminum one.

I can email him to find the work-around, but they did get it figured out. I'm not sure how much this applies to the M104 pulley, but you may be on the same track.

[omeyhomey]

so there is a TDC sensor pickup off the stock timing ring on the M104?

[Sulaco]

I'm in the middle of replacing the head gasket on my m104.

I saw no form of a sensor down there, nor did I see any electrical connection that could lead to a sensor. That piece of metal sticking off on the very tip-top of the block right on the crank pulley is merely a metal tooth that you use to locate TDC on the notched grooves on the harmonic balancer behind the crank pulley. There's a series of numbers counting down from both directions, and the "0" value for both of them is instead a "T," signifying TDC.

The only sensor I saw that had to do with the timing was inside the timing cover that detected the location of a piece of triangular metal welded to the intake cam timing gear.

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by Sulaco
I'm in the middle of replacing the head gasket on my m104.

I saw no form of a sensor down there, nor did I see any electrical connection that could lead to a sensor. That piece of metal sticking off on the very tip-top of the block right on the crank pulley is merely a metal tooth that you use to locate TDC on the notched grooves on the harmonic balancer behind the crank pulley. There's a series of numbers counting down from both directions, and the "0" value for both of them is instead a "T," signifying TDC.

The only sensor I saw that had to do with the timing was inside the timing cover that detected the location of a piece of triangular metal welded to the intake cam timing gear.

ok perfect thats what i thought, I have the actual pulley here but not a car with one on it to verify if there were any sensor pickups. if there were it would be blatently obvious. Well looks like you M104 guys may be in luck after all :)

[omeyhomey]

I would love to make a M104 pulley but i seriously need to see that there is actual demand for the pulley. If you guys can ask all the people you know with M104 engines if they would be interested in such a product let me know. Im tired of benz guys having no legitimate mods that actually make decent power like they promise.

[Sulaco]

Wouldn't a "mod" like this cause all kinds of hell with things like the engine control, fuel/fire ratios?

Wouldn't some other items need to be replaced in order for this mod to NOT cause any trouble?

It just seems to me that these things coupled with their electronic bells and whistles are NOT well suited for mods like that.

I'm a n00b.

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by Sulaco
Wouldn't a "mod" like this cause all kinds of hell with things like the engine control, fuel/fire ratios?

Wouldn't some other items need to be replaced in order for this mod to NOT cause any trouble?

It just seems to me that these things coupled with their electronic bells and whistles are NOT well suited for mods like that.

I'm a n00b.

Absolutely not. this will not affect A/Fs AT ALL, this will NOT affect alternator, this will NOT cause any trouble, this will not cause electrical problems etc etc. Basically the only difference is you will have much more power (and more importantly) torque at all rpms. Thats why i chose stock diameter, it keeps driveability of the engine just like 100% stock. Only difference is less rotational mass for more power to reach the wheels. typical gains are 8-12 wheel HP for small displacement engines and even higher for larger displacement engines. Most other pulley manufacturers underdrive but I hate taht honestly and it just kills the driveability of the car. 85-90% of the gains are in the mass reduction anyways so no real need for underdriving, honestly its a waste. hope that helps.

[Sulaco]

Increase in mpg (assuming one drives conservatively)?

How much would this part cost?

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by Sulaco
Increase in mpg (assuming one drives conservatively)?

How much would this part cost?

you know thats actually come up quite a bit. in theory yes you should receive better gas mileage though that would require oneself to resist the temptation to hammer down the throttle :) . MSRP would be right at around $349, Forum Group buys would be a bit cheaper. hope that helps

[Sulaco]

Hmm, I would definitely be interested. But I won't lie to you. At this point I can afford nothing like that. I'm a jobless college student who needs new tires worse than he needs air to breath.

[omeyhomey]

no pressure, just giving general information about the pulley, thats all. its not even going to be produced for a few months if i chose to do so.

[LiVn_It_UP]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
Absolutely not. this will not affect A/Fs AT ALL, this will NOT affect alternator, this will NOT cause any trouble, this will not cause electrical problems etc etc. Basically the only difference is you will have much more power (and more importantly) torque at all rpms. Thats why i chose stock diameter, it keeps driveability of the engine just like 100% stock. Only difference is less rotational mass for more power to reach the wheels. typical gains are 8-12 wheel HP for small displacement engines and even higher for larger displacement engines. Most other pulley manufacturers underdrive but I hate taht honestly and it just kills the driveability of the car. 85-90% of the gains are in the mass reduction anyways so no real need for underdriving, honestly its a waste. hope that helps.


Let me know when you need the money!!

[omeyhomey]

I need to see the demand is there, if you guys could ask on the other forums you talk on whether they would be interested (don't mention me) and just see if the demand is there, then I will do it. As long as I can 100% confirm there is no sensor pickup them it will be a peice of cake to do a M104 pulley. that was the only real thing stopping me. hope that helps. thanks

[Sulaco]

I can verify this weekend on the existence of a crank sensor in the pulley. I'm assuming the harmonic balancer will remain stock?

[LiVn_It_UP]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I need to see the demand is there, if you guys could ask on the other forums you talk on whether they would be interested (don't mention me) and just see if the demand is there, then I will do it. As long as I can 100% confirm there is no sensor pickup them it will be a peice of cake to do a M104 pulley. that was the only real thing stopping me. hope that helps. thanks

just saying i'm in for sure... i can also check to see if it has a sensor pickup i have a spare m104 sitting on a pallet at my dads shop.. i can look tomorrow, an take pictures if needed...

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by LiVn_It_UP
just saying i'm in for sure... i can also check to see if it has a sensor pickup i have a spare m104 sitting on a pallet at my dads shop.. i can look tomorrow, an take pictures if needed...

I have the entire pulley assembly sitting right here in my living room, what i need to see is just make sure from multiple people that there is infact no sensor pick up whatsoever. Honestly after looking at the pulley right now it should be an extremely easy to manufacture so I could get alot of them made. If you guys can get a group of 5 or more I can do a group buy Club202 discount just for you guys. anyways lemme know. thx

[omeyhomey]

Hey guys,

just making sure all you guys have identical looking pulleys...


http://www.europerformance.net/images/m104pulley.jpg

let me know exactly what years this pulley was on and which models. thx guys, together we may be able to actually help some M104 guys makes some decent power :)

[omeyhomey]

hey guys, I have seen multiple versions of the pulley I just want to double check and make sure that there are not two types of M104 pulleys (which i have a feeling there are: Older & newer model M104 pulley). Thx

[omeyhomey]

Hey guys,


Good news. I found a test car for pulley for the C280 V6 engines, the C43, and also the C55. Hopefully I should have dyno by X-mas time. thx guys

[LiVn_It_UP]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I have the entire pulley assembly sitting right here in my living room, what i need to see is just make sure from multiple people that there is infact no sensor pick up whatsoever. Honestly after looking at the pulley right now it should be an extremely easy to manufacture so I could get alot of them made. If you guys can get a group of 5 or more I can do a group buy Club202 discount just for you guys. anyways lemme know. thx

my m104.992 has no crank sensor and it looks like the pulley you posted

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by LiVn_It_UP
my m104.992 has no crank sensor and it looks like the pulley you posted

yes but i saw another picture of an M104 pulley on the engine and it looked totally different, dunno if it was a newer model or what. can anyone confirm on various model years if your pulley looks like that?

[omeyhomey]

Hey guys, this is what I was worried about. It seems the M104 had many different crank pulley variations therefore this will change my strategy quite a bit. I may have to put off the M104 pulley until i get these other pulleys up and running. here is another example of the M104 pulley variation (from 1995 E320), Am I wrong to assume the earlier E-class had m104 or not? I know my 93 300SE was M104 (S320 engine), My 93 pulley looked identical to the first one. just making sure....


http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/8e/b4/bd_1_sbl.JPG

[LiVn_It_UP]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
Hey guys, this is what I was worried about. It seems the M104 had many different crank pulley variations therefore this will change my strategy quite a bit. I may have to put off the M104 pulley until i get these other pulleys up and running. here is another example of the M104 pulley variation (from 1995 E320), Am I wrong to assume the earlier E-class had m104 or not? I know my 93 300SE was M104 (S320 engine), My 93 pulley looked identical to the first one. just making sure....


http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/8e/b4/bd_1_sbl.JPG

my m103 looks like the top one... my m104 out of a 94 E320 looks like the 2nd picture and it has no sensors

sorry about that

[omeyhomey]

M103? i thought everything from 92-97 was M104 for the I6, am I mistaken?

[omeyhomey]

can you guys, check your M104 pullies to see which ones you have? thx

[omeyhomey]

Update:


Good news guys, I just obtained the 2nd M104 pulley. I will do side by side comparisons to see what the differences are, if the offset and diameters are the same I will produce the M104 pulley (hopefully we don't have another 230K pulley fiasco on our hands). I am trying as quick as possible to get this stuff manfacturered so you guys can actually have some decent gains for once :) . Anyways more updates coming soon

~omeyhomey~