idea for vent to atmosphere

[ncd]

Sorry to drag this up again, I dont even think it would work out as "cool" as a real turbo plumbing/symantics...

but Im just curious...

Could you setup the following after the air goes through the CBV, have a t-peice, that goes to a much smaller "collection" box, before entering it goes through a 1 way air valve (Air admitance valve), Which is connected to a BOV, which its self is blocked off on the manifold side and if it has vacume/cooling lines loop them together.

could it be that simple..

this is heracacy but chop the air filter half, have the air collector inside the airfilter housing and make a nipple on the air filters housings lid which connects to a small hose on the vent point of the bov which is incasirated in the collector..

my thinking is the collector will presurise and blow ever now and again... obviously all this will have to be incredibly air tight..
not sure how to fix t-peice thinking ... as i know you will loose presure their..

nipple
---------^--------- lid
|airfilter area |
--------------------
|------------ |
| collector |
|------------ |
| rest of filter |
---------------------


colour schematic of idea comming soon curtiousy of mspaint :)

basically dreamed this while falling asleep.. so sorry for the poor spelling/etc+busy.

if the air houseing is under significant presure you could literally have a hose with a air admitance valve and a hose and the bov (blocked off as described)
This idea condenses the catcher into the bov itself as well..

That siad im sure the bigger the volume of the catcher the longer the the fake psssht will be!!.. but if you guys can verify my thinking here....


This should have minimal effect on the car and you dont really have to touch a singal thing ... for a bit of fun.

revised plan coming soon... using HKS SSQV Blowoff Valve...

[Proven Guilty]

This method probably wouldn't yield any performance gain at all, and for the most part the reason for having a BOV is the sound it makes when you let off the gas under hard acceleration.

from the sound of it, the BOV would just help release more boost, but randomly rather than releasing the gas pedal under hard acceleration and it wouldn't be necessary since the SC clutches on and off as needed. The Eaton M42 SC is a roots type blower, and provides boost at the entire rpm range and its electronically bypassed via a VDO bypass valve.

You can vent to ambient air much easier, and for less than $100 using your current VDO bypass and still get that sound.

Nevertheless still a good idea. But from the design aspect, its not practical, nor an improvement upon current design.

[ncd]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
This method probably wouldn't yield any performance gain at all, and for the most part the reason for having a BOV is the sound it makes when you let off the gas under hard acceleration.
...
from the sound of it, the BOV would just help release more boost, but randomly rather than releasing the gas pedal
...

Nevertheless still a good idea. But from the design aspect, its not practical, nor an improvement upon current design.

totaly agree on thoses points... their would 0 to be gained performance wise.

Taking the unpracticalness another level... How about a selinoid, on the t-peice i mentioned before that switchs the flow of air back to air box and if the accelerator has shut then out to the air via bov.. to closer mimic the setup.. ...ofcourse totaly unpractical

;)

what is the way using the existing vdo bypass ProvenGuilty ??

[therock2689]

Ncd, i have a set up like Proven Guilty has, or decribed. I have a short ram intake(soon to be converted to cold air, it stoped raining in florida) and a small filter on teh VDO bypass. Here is a pic
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j275/therock2689/S4021984.jpg

[ncd]

tnx the rock... nice setup.. i might go that route in the long run... can you get a recording of how it sounds ?

[Proven Guilty]

yep, thats exactly what i was talking about.

however, some of the guys have been running the cold air intakes down to the "foglight" hole under the stock airbox. it's still possible to leave your stock air box in the car and have it vent to ambient air, just have to make a bracket to hold the bypass valve, and block the hole on the stock air box.

[therock2689]

Here is a vid i shot of it today. The only conplain i have is that there is a bit of underlying s/c whine at highway speeds but if you can get use to it, its all good. I would like to thank my sister for helpen my out and thank my. J/k
VID (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j275/therock2689/?action=view&current=S4021986.flv)

[ncd]

Originally posted by therock2689
Here is a vid i shot of it today. The only conplain i have is that there is a bit of underlying s/c whine at highway speeds but if you can get use to it, its all good. I would like to thank my sister for helpen my out and thank my. J/k
VID (http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j275/therock2689/?action=view&current=S4021986.flv)
ah niice .. vid much apreciated :)


I would like to revise the idea, to may be incorperate the vacuum lines & a quick release valve, Can some one describe how our vacume system works presently..

[therock2689]

Originally posted by ncd
ah niice .. vid much apreciated :)


I would like to revise the idea, to may be incorperate the vacuum lines & a quick release valve, Can some one describe how our vacume system works presently..
its not a vac line for the bypass. since its a drive by wire system, everthing from the throttal to teh bybass valve is electronic and is handled by little electric motors. there is nothing you can realy do evcept what i have or similar, but you can try anything you want to.


Rock

[ncd]

Originally posted by therock2689
its not a vac line for the bypass. since its a drive by wire system, everthing from the throttal to teh bybass valve is electronic

Rock
ok... i see the problem now..

I think for us lesser car mechanic minds this has cleaned up allot of questions tnx for too all that posted.

as a long term curiousity i might try and asemble the pipe work involved for a direct fit into the inside of air box and see what happens.. and what it sounds like.. on one lazy sunday afternoon...
I gues i should be looking for the lowest rated bov I can find right??

[ncd]

hey.. could not help but have some more thoughts about this.. does any one know if the intake manifold have a vacuum BEFORE the throttle body??

Im thinking if you could theorectically put a nipple on the intake before TB, you might beable to fully simulate the characteristics and nothing wrong with it being a little unique either... its just for show at the end of the day..

since a real turbos vacuum nipple will be after the TB does that mean its using the venturi vacuum?

fact or fiction..
on idle the valve is closed.
on cruse the valve is closed.
on throttle the valve is closed.
on throttle release valve is OPEN

I assume that to be the characteristic of a properly functioning bov .. it seems to me its not a problem of having surplus air to presurise but how to create a souce for the vacuum signal..

and this bov diagram seems to lack a plumb back outlet, which makes it seem slighty more possible..




http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5513/wtfqx5.th.gif (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wtfqx5.gif)

[therock2689]

you are making this so coplicated. Ok, then you let go of teh throttal, teh electromagnetic clutch disengages(no more force air.) By teh time it gets to teh BOV, it will have no presure behind it and will make no sound.

[ncd]

Originally posted by therock2689
you are making this so coplicated. Ok, then you let go of teh throttal, teh electromagnetic clutch disengages(no more force air.) By teh time it gets to teh BOV, it will have no presure behind it and will make no sound.

ok ok i give up :) .. so boost == immediatly false when the tb closes on our our setup.. I gues its incasirated in the SC and we are never going to get it out..

so those turbo boys had the last laugh after all :)

your right just not worth it for a sound, who needs it when we got "Mad Max" like whineing :)

[therock2689]

Originally posted by ncd
ok ok i give up :) .. so boost == immediatly false when the tb closes on our our setup.. I gues its incasirated in the SC and we are never going to get it out..

so those turbo boys had the last laugh after all :)

your right just not worth it for a sound, who needs it when we got "Mad Max" like whineing :)
That what i say. Drop a cold air and filter on the bypass and you are set to go.
Good luck


Rock

[Pagz]

Originally posted by ncd
hey.. could not help but have some more thoughts about this.. does any one know if the intake manifold have a vacuum BEFORE the throttle body??

Im thinking if you could theorectically put a nipple on the intake before TB, you might beable to fully simulate the characteristics and nothing wrong with it being a little unique either... its just for show at the end of the day..

since a real turbos vacuum nipple will be after the TB does that mean its using the venturi vacuum?

fact or fiction..
on idle the valve is closed.
on cruse the valve is closed.
on throttle the valve is closed.
on throttle release valve is OPEN

I assume that to be the characteristic of a properly functioning bov .. it seems to me its not a problem of having surplus air to presurise but how to create a souce for the vacuum signal..

and this bov diagram seems to lack a plumb back outlet, which makes it seem slighty more possible..


Facts:
-at idle the VDO bypass is open,the SC clutch is disengaged
-while cruiseing at no load and above a specific speed(>~5kms) the clutch is engaged,the VDO bypass is open.
-Under acceleration the bypass closes resulting in boost pressure
-when after mild/heavy acceleration the TB is closed due to you removing your foot from the accelerator pedal...the VDO bypass will open effectively relieving the pressure build up...

It would be a waste to install a vaccum operated bypass.

[97C28O]

That video sounds like a ambulence

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 97C28O
That video sounds like a ambulence

haha, so true. the S.C. whine is insane

[Pagz]

imagine SlammedC's setup with twice the pully speed!

[therock2689]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
haha, so true. the S.C. whine is insane
I like it. When the engine is all the way warm, its more subdued. and with the hood closed, its a bit quiter to, but anyway, i like it.

[Nitrogenbalance]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
haha, so true. the S.C. whine is insane

Thats like a Sarah Jessica Parker whine. This is Rosie O'Donell!!

http://media.putfile.com/E55-AMG-Burnouts

HPSGEN1...I listen to this all day:D I can scare people off the sidewalk.

[ncd]

Originally posted by Nitrogenbalance
Thats like a Sarah Jessica Parker whine. This is Rosie O'Donell!!

http://media.putfile.com/E55-AMG-Burnouts

HPSGEN1...I listen to this all day:D I can scare people off the sidewalk.

lol.. when i have to go out during the dead of night i find my self in a catch 22 because I live in a block of flats the car is moreless right out side some ones house on the ground floor, so I dont want to idle the car out side while she warms and I have to let her creep away with no throttle.. but then to move the whine is Inane your like SSHHHH OLD GIRL!! as you slink out ;)

[ncd]

Originally posted by ncd
lol.. when i have to go out during the dead of night i find my self in a catch 22 because I live in a block of flats the car is moreless right out side some ones house on the ground floor, so I dont want to idle the car out side while she warms and I have to let her creep away with no throttle.. but then to move the whine is Inane your like SSHHHH OLD GIRL!! as you slink out ;)

btw been getting quite cold & wet in london, what should the average temp be before switching to "W" mode? ... would avg of 15C warrant it or should i wait for it to get colder still?..

[Nitrogenbalance]

Originally posted by ncd
btw been getting quite cold & wet in london, what should the average temp be before switching to "W" mode? ... would avg of 15C warrant it or should i wait for it to get colder still?..

I think the 'W' setting for the transmisison is more for road conditions and traction rather than actual cold weather. I could be wrong though.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by Nitrogenbalance
I think the 'W' setting for the transmisison is more for road conditions and traction rather than actual cold weather. I could be wrong though.

that's 100% correct.

"W" which may arguable stand for "wet" or "winter" conditions, simply starts the car in 2nd gear instead of first from a dead stop, and has lower shift points (wont rev out when changing gears) unless you tell it to.

[ncd]

Originally posted by 23K
Facts:
-at idle the VDO bypass is open,the SC clutch is disengaged
-while cruiseing at no load and above a specific speed(>~5kms) the clutch is engaged,the VDO bypass is open.
-Under acceleration the bypass closes resulting in boost pressure
-when after mild/heavy acceleration the TB is closed due to you removing your foot from the accelerator pedal...the VDO bypass will open effectively relieving the pressure build up...

It would be a waste to install a vaccum operated bypass.

whats it doing when its in Park/nuetral after being warmed up.. when you jab the thottle you can actually hear a vent to atomphere sound from the air box heheh...
to me sounds like the vdo is responding to a presure build up.