Head gasket job on my m104 is underway (PICS) [Archive]

Sulaco

10-02-2006, 02:37 PM

If anyone wants to steal these pics for future reference (ie, use in an instructional write-up, show to people to imply that you're very good at fixing things, blatantly rip me off, etc) I don't care. Feel free to distribute them any way you wish.

I was shocked at the lack of photographic follow-up on this job so I took some pics to see if they'd be of any help to someone.

Feel free to ask what's going on in each pic if you wish.

matt09

10-02-2006, 03:56 PM

Wow, noobish question, is it normal to have that kind of rust on the pistons and valves?

Sulaco

10-02-2006, 04:00 PM

Not normal at all.

My engine overheated and the gasket suffered a major failure. Oil, engine coolant (mostly water), and other things were getting into the cylinders. I pulled the plugs about a month ago to look down in there and investigate. The cylinders had some water in them, and with the plugs out, had access to open air. And a month of sitting there resulted in rust. Normally, there is NO rust.

matt09

10-02-2006, 04:09 PM

:) Ok. Thanks for taking the time to post those pics up. What do you think is the hardest part about doing this yourself?

Sulaco

10-02-2006, 04:15 PM

hahahahahahahaha

All of it.

But really. Making sure you've got the head and block clean before you reassemble is alot of elbow grease and some really specific cleaning agents.

The recommended removal called for pulling the Intake with the head. But, as you can see in the pics, my intake is still in the car. My logic was that my TBA (throttle body) is KNOWN to be one that shipped with a weak wiring harness. I was terrified of touching it because I simply can't afford to replace it. So I opted to leave my intake alone and go through the tedious process of unattaching it from the head while still in the car. That wasn't easy. Some of those allen-head bolts were REALLY hard to reach and break because of the angles.

Making sure I've got the timing chain/gears all in order has turned out to be a bigger bitch than I expected. I put the timing chain on incorrectly (one tooth-too-few in the gap between the cam gears) and didn't notice it until I was reinstalling the chain tensioner. However, I seriously stripped one of the bolts securing the exhaust cam timing gear. I'll have to drill that bolt out and replace it before I can continue working and fix the timing. It's the only thing holding me from continuing. Well, that, and a week of college between now and the weekend.

jnolte

10-02-2006, 04:43 PM

that looks like a HORRID headache! way to be champ!

jnenad16

10-02-2006, 07:04 PM

good job, brian. however, few thigs from the pictures worry me.if the timing was set to TDC before you started the work on it and if the cams were removed, all the valves should be closed, but in the pics with the head off, a few valves were open? that tells me you have a few bent valves, which should have been replaced before the head was put back on. also, did you sand down the head surface yourself? thats a big NO NO, the head must be resurfaced by a machine shop, there is no way around it.

nenad

Sulaco

10-02-2006, 07:10 PM

The cams were not removed. They were set to the factory specified top dead center which automatically holds open some valves, since some of the cam "notches" were definitely in the position to be holding some valves open. We checked the valves, and none appeared to be bent. We just left them on during the cleaning process.

I didn't sand the head. I just sprayed it with copius amounts of foaming head gasket remover and scrubbed it softly with a wire brush until the old gasket was removed.

Didn't I hear somewhere that you can't resurface these heads?

We made very sure not to damage the head during this. I used a razor blade for most of the scraping and did not turn it on the sharp edge. The head is aluminum, afterall :(

BadBenz94

10-03-2006, 06:55 AM

While needing to be careful you can get a soft semi abbrassive 3m disk to place on your drill to clean the head surface without any worry of damage. Ask any local maching shop which one to use, I think its the brown one, any way you may too want to get something to clean the cylinder bores of some of the rust too. If you dont your rings will take a beating and will greatly diminish the life of them. Theres my two cents!! :) Good luck!!
Chris

On second thought the cylinders dont look that bad, just clean them up really good and use some fine steel wool to get the rust off then use a strong shop vac. Then place some oil(not alot) on the cylinder walls and on top of the rings to lubricate it before placing the head back on.

One last thing, take the head to a machine shop to check to make sure its not warped. It shouldnt cost you anything.

mbsickness

10-03-2006, 07:14 AM

Hats off to you for taking this project on yourself. After seeing the pictures I'm glad I decided to have the dealer replace the headgasket in my 94....that being said I also left $2,200. at the dealer.

Sulaco

10-03-2006, 08:16 AM

asdf

Ashkan's C280

10-03-2006, 04:33 PM

man that must have been such a mess, kudos for a job well done, all the best...

Sulaco

10-08-2006, 09:42 AM

Well, the car is back together. I was very careful to make sure I didn't forget or miss anything during reassembly.

Upon first attempt to crank, it backfires instantly. It had done this before back when my harness was dead.

Anyways.

I turned it and turned it for what seemed forever. Finally, it was doing more than turning and it began to fire. Then, it started. As expected, it ran really poorly. I released the throttle to see if it could idle and it just died.

Now I can't seem to make it fire. Upon start the engine will turn and turn, but it doesn't seem to be firing. I've made sure I have the entire ignition/injection system reassembled correctly.

I've drained the battery turning it. It's on the charger right now, but I don't know what to do.

Is it just needing to turn and turn and turn before it cleans itself?

Sulaco

10-08-2006, 11:59 AM

Well, the head gasket job is complete. Everything's back together. After what I thought was a problem with the ignition system turned out to be a simple OUT-OF-GAS problem, I've run into a couple new problems.

The aux fans do not activate. Driving around engine temps remain normal. Upon parking and idling, the temp slowly rose to just a hair above 100C. Revving brings the temp back down so the fan clutch and thermostat are working. However, the aux fans will not come on. I don't know what to check. I'm sure it's some relay or maybe some connection isn't seated properly after the reassembly. Any help in locating?

Second: The car runs pretty weak now. No misfires and no limp mode--just doesn't have any power past circa 3.5k RPMs. MAS? Really old ignition system? Just needs miles to burn in? It did NOT do this before the over-heat and head gasket failure.

Please!

Denlasoul

10-08-2006, 12:05 PM

Threads merged.

jnenad16

10-08-2006, 01:13 PM

have you checked your compression? I bet its below specs. as for the fans, did you reconnect all the grounds?
whats your email, I'll send you the electrical diagram for the cooling system.

nenad

Sulaco

10-08-2006, 03:17 PM

My e-mail is

Compression? I never thought of that. Quite frankly the idea of it scares me. If I do have a problem with my compression, there's nothing I can do to fix (outside remove the head all over again).

jnenad16

10-08-2006, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Sulaco
My e-mail is

Compression? I never thought of that. Quite frankly the idea of it scares me. If I do have a problem with my compression, there's nothing I can do to fix (outside remove the head all over again).
yes, there is something you can do to restore your compression without tearing the engine apart:
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8573&highlight=cheap+engine+restorer
I'll send you the diagrams as soon and I get home from work tomorrow morning.

nenad

Sulaco

10-08-2006, 09:36 PM

nenad, you are a lifesaver. You've been more help to me on this endeavor than I have been myself.

In other news:
I'm starting to wonder about the condition of the engine. I didn't change the oil after this job (yet). I've always changed the oil between 15 and 20k miles. Anyways, the oil in there now is going for near 20k miles at this point and after the failed head gasket fiasco and all the stuff that's likely mixed in with it now; I'm sure it's in really sad shape. It's really black, pretty thin, has a small bit of water in it, and God knows what else mixed (in small mounts) in there during the cleaning process. Needless to say I'll be doing a complete tune-up asap (hell, the plug wires are nearly 5 years old!). Think all that could have something to do with any of my power issues?

Or even that my MAS sat outside under the carport, disconnected from the car for a good 2 months?

Possibly a sort of "break in" process after doing such a huge job on the engine?

I'm desperate for even a FALSE hope that my compression at least WILL be fine (if it isn't already).

If not, I'm DEFINITELY trying that XADO stuff. After I figure out why my aux fans won't come on when the engine gets a tad hot when idle/park.

BadBenz94

10-09-2006, 07:42 AM

15-20k miles between oil changes?? Its a wonder your car still runs at all. YOU probably have some sludge issues going on somewhere and with a blown headgasket your oil isnt helping your engine at all. In fact its possible to wipe out your crank and rod bearings with all the contamination going on there. However the oil itself wont cause running problems. Too if your mass air meter is bad your should have a cel on.

I know you stated that you have not replaced the throttle body actuator, but even if thats bad it wont cause it to run poorly above idle(I had a bad one on my car for more than a year before I finally replaced it!).

Well theres my two cents, best of luck!!

Chris

Sulaco

10-09-2006, 08:22 AM

I use only Mobil 1.

We've done this to every car we've owned in the last 15 years and they've all been top notch. Never encountered unusual sludge nor anything out of the ordinary.

It's not a wonder my car still runs at all.

ncd

10-09-2006, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Sulaco
I use only Mobil 1.

We've done this to every car we've owned in the last 15 years and they've all been top notch. Never encountered unusual sludge nor anything out of the ordinary.

It's not a wonder my car still runs at all.
if i was ever caught doing my HG,
I would like to think that I would do the following as well :)
since your doing the HG do the other gasket for spark plugs
Clean the engine + drain the oil
New oil filter
Change the trany oil
Change the diff oil
Clean the throttle body /butterfly & walls (with out removing)
Clean or replace the mas.
new spark plugs
Fresh tank of petrol + fuel injection cleaner.
any other details you want to fill us in on??
if you still have a issue then you must of did something wrong.. signal for SOS ;)

Sulaco

10-09-2006, 03:17 PM

There's a physical impossibility for all of those things to happen.

I am a broke, jobless college student. In order for all of those things to be obtained, a physical (be it electronic or in-person) exchange of one material for another.

Translation: I would have done all that stuff weeks ago if I had the money :(

I won't have the kind of money for anything that expensive for a while. The plugs are almost a year old (kind of young for plugs in these cars), and the MAS is around 4 years old (definitely needs changing, but costs $300). I need new tires before I need to restore engine power. I don't even have the money for those.

ncd

10-09-2006, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Sulaco
There's a physical impossibility for all of those things to happen.

I am a broke, jobless college student. In order for all of those things to be obtained, a physical (be it electronic or in-person) exchange of one material for another.

Translation: I would have done all that stuff weeks ago if I had the money :(

I won't have the kind of money for anything that expensive for a while. The plugs are almost a year old (kind of young for plugs in these cars), and the MAS is around 4 years old (definitely needs changing, but costs $300). I need new tires before I need to restore engine power. I don't even have the money for those.

Have you read on mbfanatics.org about the cheaper MAS sensors on ebay?
you can just get a new inset for it which is allot cheaper
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-MAF-Sensor-Mass-Air-Flow-Fuel-Trim-Code-Fix_W0QQitemZ130031288697QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33557Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohost ing

Sulaco

10-09-2006, 03:31 PM

Ohhhhh, really?

I have GOT to look into this.

Thanks!

Edit:

Hmm, says 1998 and newer...

ncd

10-09-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Sulaco
Ohhhhh, really?

I have GOT to look into this.

Thanks!

Edit:

Hmm, says 1998 and newer...

hrm I would to love to know whats so god damn special about thoses little resistors... if thats what they are...

Sulaco

10-09-2006, 03:38 PM

Here's a good one.

Why does the ball of wires that is the wiring harness cost $760? Sometimes they cost $1,200!

Well, I can't really complain in that department. I found mine in a wrecked '95 on ebay for $65. Call me EXTREMELY LUCKY.

Here's something...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Mass-Air-Flow-Sensor-Meter-maf-000-094-0548_W0QQitemZ260036874772QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33557 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ncd

10-09-2006, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by Sulaco
Here's a good one.

Why does the ball of wires that is the wiring harness cost $760? Sometimes they cost $1,200!

Well, I can't really complain in that department. I found mine in a wrecked '95 on ebay for $65. Call me EXTREMELY LUCKY.

Here's something...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Mass-Air-Flow-Sensor-Meter-maf-000-094-0548_W0QQitemZ260036874772QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33557 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think since sulaco has shown such valour to undertake take his hg with little or no supplies, and for shareing his experince, so... You U.S'rs should all donate him a little piece.. so he can do it again but get some good compression this time round. If i lived closer to him i would offer him my unused gaskets.

Sulaco

10-10-2006, 01:00 AM

haha, there's absolutely no need for that sort of thing.

I really appreciate the sentiments, though.

There are no gaskets I need, and if my compression is down there's not much I can do about it.

VIP_MBZ

10-10-2006, 02:07 AM

Sorry for the very late entry into this thread.

Just FYI, my background is mostly with the various Toyota Supra turbo and twin turbo engines. The 7M-GTE is a cast iron block w/aluminum head NOTORIOUS for blown head gaskets.

Any machine shop can resurface an aluminum head. Most likely if it overheated, you HAVE to in order to compensate for any warping. Otherwise you will have a poor seal and can lose compression this way, and can encourage the head gasket to blow again.

Also you have hopefully not reused the head bolts, they are not designed to be reused. We have always sworn by ARP studs.

-Ray

Sulaco

10-11-2006, 01:57 PM

Did not use the original head bolts again. Used new ones. Torqued them to spec.

EDIT:

I'm back in my college town. The car broke down originally while I was home for the 4th of July. I've been borrowing my father's 1994 Chrysler LHS (WHAT) with 300k miles since.

Anyways, after completing the job this weekend I once again had to come back to town in the Chrysler for school and left my 202 there.

Well, my brother has been tinkering around with it a bit. He changed the oil and filter and filled it up with a fresh tank of V-power. Now he says it's DEFINITELY not losing any compression. He says it performed sub-par at first, but he simply floored it a few times. Eventually, it sputtered and hesitated once, then, and I quote, "it blew the soot out or something. A puff of black smoke came out of the exhaust and the car regained every bit of the power it had lost."

What the hell?

matt09

10-11-2006, 04:57 PM

Those darn kittens can get anywhere!!!

c280nz

10-12-2006, 10:02 PM

this whole story has been a bit of - what the hell? -
but good stuff doing the job yourself and not taking to the stealership.
you possibly could have had a blocked injector or a badly missing cylinder, did you clean up the coil pack/spark plugs ?

Sulaco

10-13-2006, 03:51 AM

I made sure to clean everything very thoroughly before reassembly.

Never saw the injectors during this job. They're neatly housed and sealed inside the block.

Sulaco

10-15-2006, 02:40 PM

Well, everything seems to be top notch except those damn aux fans.

I can't seem to find anything that could be the culprit. I don't know which relays and sensors control them, either.

I tried unplugging the 2 wires that connect to 2 sensors on top of the thermostat housing to see if any of them would set a CEL or cause some kind of reaction but I noticed no different.

Do these sensors control the fans? Engine overheat blow these sensors out?

jnenad16

10-16-2006, 02:01 AM

brian,
Im having hard time ripping the diagrams from either mitchell1 or alldata, they dont have an option to save the image on HDD or similar feature. I tried to capture the screen, but the diagram is not readable. the only thing I can think of, is go to www.alldatadiy.com and subscribe to your car's manual. it $25 per year.
Im sorry I couldnt help you more.

nenad