rear-mounted turbo

[anf6789]

my friend has a 2001 firebird transam, and i know this one company makes a rear mounted turbo for it, does anyone think this would be possible for our c-classes. it seems so much easier than makeing custom headers and fitting the turbo under the hood. you could just put it after the resonator, the firebird one doesn't even use a muffler, the turbo does that work. any ideas? ill see if i can find that site.

heres the link
they also make a universal kit

[RemoLexi]

thats way too much work putting the intake there and all, imagine how long it would take for it to spool.

id go with the custom header and all. much cleaner.

[JRE320]

Why don't you try it and let us know...

[anf6789]

hehe, yeah if i ever get the chance,lol. im just saying for those that are/want to do turbo upgrades, it seems somewhat cheaper/easier, just longer intake pipes are needed, these sts turbos make alot of power. the videos of the firebird are crazy. and it sounds sick too

[matt09]

Lag galore!

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by matt09
Lag galore!
I was going to say the same thing. LOL

nenad

[jnolte]

by the time it spools up, the quarter mile will be done!

[rman]

the rear mounted turbo is called a "remote turbo"

i knew a few guys who ran these setups, and surprisingly, there was very little to no increase in turbo lag.

i would put the turbo where the 2 pipes merge, before any cats/resonators etc

[anf6789]

it doesnt seem like there is too musch lag in the videos. one of the sierra flys like crazy.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by anf6789
it doesnt seem like there is too musch lag in the videos. one of the sierra flys like crazy.

Depends...do they bring the revs up before hand? I'd love to see a dyno that runs through the entire rev range...the only examples I've seen with this kind of setup...they tend to goose the results by making sure that the turbos are already spooled against a load before letting the car go

[anf6789]

i think they have dyno results on the sts website

[Pagz]

Have seen this done before also...

The system has some major draw backs...
-if you are below or far from the sump the oil will need to be pumped back
-turbo/charge piping/liquid lines are all subject to stones/road damage
-intake is usually subject to alot of water/FOD etc
-charge piping,exhaust piping to turbine is long,regardless of what is said,this definatly has an impact on spool time and charge/IC system efficiency.


Advantages may be that you dont need to make a new header,and you remove alot of heat from the bay...but i think these could easily be well offset by the disadvantages.

[Pagz]

Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently.

oh man,BS!

As the gas cools/losses energy it losses volocity
i believe there would be a substantial drop in pressure by the time it gets there also.



Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine.

yeah,only if oil temperatures are excessive,otherwise cool oil temp would slow spool time,very noticable on any turbo car you thrash from cold.


Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine.

Yeah,but responce time goes out the door.



Performance Sound. The turbo acts as a muffler and sounds like an aftermarket performance muffler. Turbo spool and rushing air from the blow-off valve make a unique sound that will turn heads!

which is a commen feature on all turbo setups.

[jnolte]

look how low the system sits to the ground too! watchout for speed bumps!

[Pagz]

i'd be very careful about where you park at night....

[jnolte]

Originally posted by 23K
i'd be very careful about where you park at night....

free turbo

[RemoLexi]

with the way I drive please dont stay close behind because if that thing flies off and hits your car its gonna leave a mark. :o

[Nelson Lago]

OK OK OK I DONT KNOW IF ANYONE KNOWS BUT I GO TO UTI, ITS A COLLAGE FOR AUTO TECS AND WE HAVE A O5 GTO WITH A REAR MOUNT ITS ACUTALY BETTER BECAUSE THE LONG PIPING FROM THE REAR TO THE INTAKE GIVES A COOLER CHARG IF AIR AND VURTALLY NO LAG IT SPOOLS AT 4000 RPM NOT BAD AND HAS 14 PSI OF BOOST AND REALLY DOES SOUND BEAUTIFUL, ORGASMIC

[Proven Guilty]

caps lock is cruise control for cool! :banana:

for some reason, my reply never posted (perhaps my crappy wi-fi connection dropped, and phpbb doesn't like packet loss when posting on forums), but i was trying to sum up very much what paul has stated (the difference is that he always sounds so much more edumacateded!)

another point; this is after all, on a trans am, with nelson's argument on a GTO. the turbo lag is quite a bit more noticeable on a 2 liter, 4 cylinder than it will be on an the already stout N/A V8s, as both cars came packing from the assembly line. i feel it's like comparing a pitbull on steroids vs. a rhino on steroids; they're both strong as hell for their size, but lets be realistic. :cool:


Originally posted by jnolte
free turbo

p.s. post pics of your GTO, because i smell bullshit :D

[Nelson Lago]

its my shcools gto i,ll try to get a pic the next time i go to lab (where the gto and outher cars we tuned and added mods are no europen car tho i wish we did) its a rear mount sts turbo. Whats your point if you have a samller engine put a small turbo and theres more exhaust velocity at the rear anyway

[RemoLexi]

and how does Air filter taking in water > to the compressor wheel (corroding it most likely) and spitting that water all the way to the intercooler sound ? theres my turn off.

[Pagz]

IT SPOOLS AT 4000 RPM

4000!,thats alot of RPM's missing out on the action


I agree with PG,the kit would be better suited to larger dispacement engines,where bottom end is no problem and bay room is.




edumacateded!
i couldnt have spelt it better:D

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
Whats your point if you have a samller engine put a small turbo and theres more exhaust velocity at the rear anyway


Depending on how much you strangle the exhaust,wouldnt you expect boost to be just as late as the larger displacment engine with a larger turbo...?

[predrag1]

Ive seen a RX7 with rear mounted twin turbo, the setup was in the trunk

[Cru328prod]

I was thinking about this the other day, it would be awsome to have a turbo supercharged car, since the supercharger only kicks in at lower rpm's. Just imagine the supercharger running at the lows and the turbo kicking in at the higher rpms. Last time i heard of somthing like this, VW was working on it but everything was up front in the engine. I had a STS setup in my LS1 Camaro, but the powerband was a lil to much, i was pushing around 540hp to the wheels (with alot of other mods). I had to switch to a 202 because it really wasn't a daily driving car anymore.

[Cru328prod]

Originally posted by predrag1
Ive seen a RX7 with rear mounted twin turbo, the setup was in the trunk

those turbos get pretty friggin hot. thats just really dumb, no cooling at all.......damm ricers!

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by Cru328prod
I was thinking about this the other day, it would be awsome to have a turbo supercharged car, since the supercharger only kicks in at lower rpm's. Just imagine the supercharger running at the lows and the turbo kicking in at the higher rpms. Last time i heard of somthing like this, VW was working on it but everything was up front in the engine. I had a STS setup in my LS1 Camaro, but the powerband was a lil to much, i was pushing around 540hp to the wheels (with alot of other mods). I had to switch to a 202 because it really wasn't a daily driving car anymore.


mosselmann makes a supercharger/turbo kit for the C230Ks!

edit: i've never heard of a supercharger not giving boost at higher rpms. they usually are belt driven, and run 100% of the time. the C230k's have an electromagnetic clutch, and this design was meant to keep reliability and gas mileage reasonable since they were intended for full production cars.

any blower i've ever had on the american V8s were always running, even at idle. the major drawback with a supercharger is that they are inneficient and consume horsepower just to run them, whereas a turbo runs off exhaust gas. however the "turbo lag" is the drawback to turbo.

as far as i understand, the mosselman kit uses the c230k's clutch to turn off the supercharger when the turbo is spooled, based on the rpm range and how the fuel management is tuned to provide the smoothest powerband, and maximum power through all RPMs

[anf6789]

hey do u have any pics of the camaro set up, would like to see it. about the water problem, the turbos come with kandn filterchargers which block water but let air through, dont know how well they work though.

[Cru328prod]

sorry no pics I'VE NEVER TAKEN THAT CAR OUT IN THE RAINNNNNNNNN!!!! the tires break loose at pretty much any speed under 90 without holding the clutch down 18 degree headers, 50lb injectors, IC sts turbo, big ol friggin radiator, also ported and polished heads 90mm T body, too much to list. 1 of the easiest cars to work on compared to a 202, im still lost with the whole engine setup. the sts turbo is pretty much great, since theres not really enough room for turbo to be up front its prefect. like i said before not a daily driving car. thats why i sold it and bought a 202. I put about 8 grand into my camaro, and thats what i got out of it SUCKSSSSSSS )()********

[Cru328prod]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
mosselmann makes a supercharger/turbo kit for the C230Ks!

edit: i've never heard of a supercharger not giving boost at higher rpms. they usually are belt driven, and run 100% of the time. the C230k's have an electromagnetic clutch, and this design was meant to keep reliability and gas mileage reasonable since they were intended for full production cars.

any blower i've ever had on the american V8s were always running, even at idle. the major drawback with a supercharger is that they are inneficient and consume horsepower just to run them, whereas a turbo runs off exhaust gas. however the "turbo lag" is the drawback to turbo.

as far as i understand, the mosselman kit uses the c230k's clutch to turn off the supercharger when the turbo is spooled, based on the rpm range and how the fuel management is tuned to provide the smoothest powerband, and maximum power through all RPMs

HOW MUCHHHHHHHHH I'll BUY!!!

[Nelson Lago]

i got pic of the GTO at my school with a sts turbo but will paste it tomarrow but i under stand that it lags a bit but i would LOVE to put a turbo one in my 99 c280 v6 i mean, i wanna be diffrent so i dont want to supercharg i would like a turbo, but the only option really is sts. Has anyone see where the exhaust headers are on a v6 280 nearly imposable ill need to custom make one, i live in mass theres notthing near hear that can do that, plus how much it will cost, foget that sts is the way to go........................ps Cru328prod you had a camaro and said it sux what selling it or having it and i know this is off topic but why is it that mercedes trannys seem to take a lot of power i mean the torque of the slr should spin the tires at like 50mph if you floor it but thay dont and my friend can chirp 4th on his civic ( full exhaust stock clutch) i mean if he can do that the slr should light'em up at 50

[Pagz]

mosselmann makes a supercharger/turbo kit for the C230Ks!

Cool!...they dont list it on there site?...or do they hmm

[jnolte]

they make em for the 280 adn c36s too, i bet they are like 10k though

[Nelson Lago]

i hope thay do and what web sit is it

[RemoLexi]

if i had the V6 2.8 engine - id mount the turbo right after the header pipes have gotton closer side by side and right before the cats. that way it spools faster then the rear mounted crap. but I dont exactly know what space issues are on the V6 280. just an idea of where I would start.

[jnolte]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
i hope thay do and what web sit is it

i just checked the site, they do have listing for the c-class engines

here is the link
http://www.mosselmanturbo.com/

[Nelson Lago]

here it is http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w293/CLK_011/GTO003.jpg
has no mufflers
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w293/CLK_011/GTO002.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w293/CLK_011/GTO004.jpg
and heres a pic of outher cars we have
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w293/CLK_011/GTO006.jpg the subaru we converted to rear wheele drive ( when i say we, i mean the school)

I would have gotten a better pic if it was on a lift.

[rman]

well the rear mounted turbo i can see definitely having lag. but the "remote mounted" turbo, which i know a few people who have done it, and it is as remolexi is stating, is a much better option. Put the turbo under the body, where the 2 engine banks merge, etc.

[anf6789]

yeah that would be better, that was pretty much my idea, on the inline 6, right after it merges into two