Simple Tuning

[vibra]

I am wondering what are the steps in simple tuning taking into consideration no aftermarket/mods install?
any experiences ?

[Nelson Lago]

you need after market to tune or get like a bigger engine its the only way you cant get more hp with out a mod .

[Kompressor_Dude]

you want a faster car by doing nothing? Me too!!!!

Unfortunately there isnt a 'faster' switch and anything that's going to give you any HP gain will involve new/different parts......... and money :(

[omeyhomey]

yes there is.... weight.

Weight is the enemy of all car enthusiasts. IF you want you car to accelerate faster, handle better, brake better, corner better, be more agile and improve its performance. take as much weight out of the car as you can :) .

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
yes there is.... weight.

Weight is the enemy of all car enthusiasts. IF you want you car to accelerate faster, handle better, brake better, corner better, be more agile and improve its performance. take as much weight out of the car as you can :) .
I agree 100%

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
yes there is.... weight.

Weight is the enemy of all car enthusiasts. IF you want you car to accelerate faster, handle better, brake better, corner better, be more agile and improve its performance. take as much weight out of the car as you can :) .
I better get my ass on the treadmill.:D

nenad

[Renn 208]

driving lessons.

[Espresso]

Just taking off weight really does nothing. Because you can DRASTICALLY alter your alignment, ride height, ect..which inturn CAN & WILL make your car slower, negating the work of reducing the weight.
It also screws with the coil spring rates, because they are meant for a specific weight of the vehicle. It will INCREASE ride height(we all know what that means), increase breaking distance & body roll.
Weight reduction ISNT always just the awnser. It WILL cost money,in alignments & better spring rates. Anyone who says any different, just doesnt know any better.

[c280nz]

Originally posted by Espresso
Just taking off weight really does nothing. Because you can DRASTICALLY alter your alignment, ride height, ect..which inturn CAN & WILL make your car slower, negating the work of reducing the weight.
It also screws with the coil spring rates, because they are meant for a specific weight of the vehicle. It will INCREASE ride height(we all know what that means), increase breaking distance & body roll.
Weight reduction ISNT always just the awnser. It WILL cost money,in alignments & better spring rates. Anyone who says any different, just doesnt know any better.


-Omeyhomey is right,
i took 60kg out of my car for a track day and wohaa what a difference-
to get this 60 kg the rear seats were removed,
i liked the improvement so much i left my car without the rear seats for a couple of weeks after the track cos it made a noticeble difference

roughly every hmm... 7kg of weight you remove will be like adding an extra 1 hp, but also improve all other aspects of the cars handling - hands down-

[jnolte]

turn the heat on full blast

[Espresso]

Originally posted by c280nz


roughly every hmm... 7kg of weight you remove will be like adding an extra 1 hp, but also improve all other aspects of the cars handling - hands down-

Please do not make blanket statements like that. So you are saying if I remove 40lbs from the front of a MR car, I will get better handling, cornering, ect?
What were your alignment settings before & after your "weight reduction"? What was your 70-0 braking distance changes? What was your ride height change? Driving on a track you should know these things.
I have almost 300lbs of sound equipment & can still burn off the tires with all my interior & my son in the car(read:severe lack of rear traction, especially around corners). Now imagine if I took out almost 400 lbs..do you think the car would be faster or safer then? Mind you I have the cars suspension setup for this extra added weight. If done properly you can be just as fast with it as without it.

I am not saying that weight reduction doesnt make you faster. I am just saying, randomly taking things out of your car, regardless of the drivetrain layout IS NOT always the best & safest route to go. So it may net you better driving times. But so can tires, 4-corner weight distribution, & many countless otehr things that could be done, especially if "gutting" your car isnt allowed in the rule books.

[C280/////AMG]

Espresso's right... One day (when my tank was empty) i decided to pull out my sub, amp, and entirely empty out my boot (carpets, jack, tyre...everything!) and took out the back seats too. the car was cartainly faster, without any doubt. However, i noticed that in corners, the car was a bit twitchy at the back...it really needed extra weight at the back just to balance the car out.

If i recommend trying to strip weight off, don't take it from the back...take it from the front of the car, where all the weight is (such as carbon fibre bonnet, aluminium radiator, CF front fenders...etc.)

If you really want to improve handling by reducing weight (and budget isn't in your vocab) give your 202 a CF roof panel

[c280nz]

it was not a blanket statment i was refering to the w202, hence the car he was asking about, and i said "rough" estimate as i am unsure of what model 202 he has.

i did not make recordings of any of those figures you ask about from the track as i do not have the equipment needed to record them accuratly, but in *my oppinion* it made an improvement to the all round handling of my car,

[Espresso]

roughly every hmm... 7kg of weight you remove will be like adding an extra 1 hp, but also improve all other aspects of the cars handling - hands down-

This is... whether it was intended or not is a blanket statement. Who told you that the W202 specifically had these "measurements'? If it was not targeted towards any other cars besides the W202. What aspects of "handling" on the W202 will it improve? If you did no before & after, nor no long term testing how would you know it to be even %50 accurate?
This is what I mean by a blanket ststement. YES, reducing weight can indircetly improve performance. BUT the statement you made is extremely vauge & could potentally be hazardous, if someone decided to "take your advice" & ending up wrapping their car around a tree.
Just gotta be careful with what ya say, because some people could take your(or anyones word) as GOLD.
Give specifics, when dealing with safety & handling. Time of day, weather, track/street, actual time shaved from full weight, ect..

[omeyhomey]

espresso,

you are wrong on the amount. its every 10lbs is 1HP (every 100lbs = 10 HP, not 7KG).


And I'm not wrong. Weight removal is the #1 modification you can do plan and simple. Its hard to disagree w/ physics. NO other mod will improve handling, braking, acceleration ALL at once than weight removal. plain and simple.

[Espresso]

I am far from wrong. I NEVER gave the amount. I quoted it. So the guy that agrees with YOUR logic is wrong(birds of a feather..humm).
Also have you done the work to know that the 100lbs=10HP? Or like everyone else on the net, just retort what has been said & NEVER tested(show me one person who has).
In YOUR opinion weight removal is #1...as long as you belive that, that is all that matters. If it was then how come ALOT of the over 200MPH cars weight in excess of 4000lbs? One word SAFETY.
Anyone car strip their car & make it faster in the 1/4. It actually takes knowledge to take a 4000lb FULL interor car into low 11's in the 1/4, be able to drive to the grocery store & back with no problems.

ONCE AGAIN..Tell these people the tests YOU HAVE DONE, that shows your claims. Show skid pad, 70-0 braking, ect.. before & after times. Until then all you say is talk & potentially damgerous to readers.

But like I ALSO said earlier. Yes, weight reduction CAN benifit you. IF done properly. Just ripping shit out of the car, COMPROMISES ride quality, saftey & performance. THAT is not only Physics, but common sense.

[kyo216]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
espresso,

you are wrong on the amount. its every 10lbs is 1HP (every 100lbs = 10 HP, not 7KG).


And I'm not wrong. Weight removal is the #1 modification you can do plan and simple. Its hard to disagree w/ physics. NO other mod will improve handling, braking, acceleration ALL at once than weight removal. plain and simple.

Espresso is quoting from c280nz so he did not state himself that 7 kg = 1hp. btw how does weight reduction increase hp? i can understand the decreasing weight equates in faster acceleration and better overall handling but higher hp? doesnt make logical sense.

so lets take a lotus elise and put in a m104 engine with 200 hp to the crank. lets say the weight difference between the elise and a c280 is 1000. so the hp of the elise with the m104 will increase to 300 now? ok...maybe im missing something....cause that does not make logical sense. i know the elise will be way faster then the c280 because of the weight difference but hp will be the same....

[Nelson Lago]

wrong agine its tires is the single way to inprove performance its in my book

[Espresso]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
wrong agine its tires is the single way to inprove performance its in my book
Once again. What do you consider "improving" performance? Handling? Straightline? Are you refering to size or compound?

If the tire is the improper size for the gear, you will either have too slow accelleration to not enought top end. Not ONE tire will give you both.
If the tire is the wrong compound/tread rating. It can detrimental to performance if not down right deadly. The tire has to get to a certain temp inorder for the characteristics to be met. If the performance of the car cannot get the tire to warm up properly, those AA traction 100 Treadwear(as an example) tires are KILLING the performance of the car.
If the tire gets too hot & the characteristics are exceeded. The tire can become oily, slippery & eventually explode, cause you to crash, ect..

[c280nz]

espresso im not arguing just interested as to where you got the view that my car will brake worse with less weight
my example
maby my car is crap but this is were i get my view from.
No matter how hard i stand on my brakes in my car i cannot get it to skid, or even half skid/skip when de-accelerating, so why would removing weight as i described not reduce the braking distance?
i could understand if the weight transfer from braking shifted to the front wheels and made the rear lock up this would increase the braking distance, but this was not the case, i cannot get my wheels to skid/slid at all, there is no loss of traction wot so ever when braking in my c280.

and as too the weight reduction =hp i was giving a "rough" off the top of my head calculation based on hp/weight. my car 1500kg / 200hp = actually equals 7.5kg/1hp
(so in theory for every 7.5kg of weight i remove from my car it will accelerate like it has 1 extra hp)

and weight removal is just an option to this guy who doesnt wish to add any bolt on parts to his car

some of our most respected and knowledgable members (who tune suspension and have raced w202s) view weight reduction as a way to improve the handling of the car,

waits for the bite :) haha its all gud espresso u sound like your on the edge from to much coffee
just jokin :D

[Espresso]

I get my view from the experience I got in my over 2 decades of racing, schooling, working & designing components for race cars & military vehicles.

The suspension coil springs on the car are designed for a certain weight for the vehicle. Also as the weight DECREASES the ride height INCREASES. The increase in height equals to an increase in the ability to stop the car(the coil springs are decompressed more). Meaning the front of the car will dip down further increasing time of proper weight transfer. Which Increases time & distance to stop the car. It may be minuscule amount of stopping distance, but ANY increase is a negative.
The increase in spring decompression also adds to body roll.


Also, on the flipside. ADDING weight will increase braking distances, overheat brakes, ect..
One thing about decreasing weight WILL do is make braking more efficent.. Meaning the brakes will not get as hot, because there is less mass to stop. But there is a fine line as to how much weight & where it is taken from in order to be effective.

There is never one magical place to get the best out of a car. EVERYTHING needs to be addressed. Brakes, tires, suspension, power/weight{transfer}, ect..

[RemoLexi]

stop all the arguing and get muffler bearings! :rolleyes:

[C280/////AMG]

AAAAh :dispoint: , just when i thought this was gonna heat up...

[vibra]

Though i did not intend to open an argument, it was already opened by my question , this did not bear in mind to me ..

SORRY TO ALL .

[C280_Spawrt]

If you drive with all your windows down, you can reduce drag!

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by C280_Spawrt
If you drive with all your windows down, you can reduce drag!

:p