Blowing an M104

[C280/////AMG]

I was speaking to a local tuner and he said that the M104, and the 280 in particular, is very prone to breaking if over-revved. It's the first time i've heard of this, and i spoke to a very reputable tuner here who often supercharges the M104 280 and says they're bulletproof.

Has anyone heard of a stock M104 280 breaking?

(btw, the redline is at 6400rpm, but i took it over that once by accident to about 7000rpm by downshifting early and i've never hit the rev-limiter in the 5 years that i've driven the car. What rpm does it come in at?)

[Nelson Lago]

The M104 is the the in line 6 280 my M112 v6 280 redlines at 6k i cant go past it becaus im not luckey enugh to get a manual but iv hit it once recing a honda. But i can see them braking because a 5k sounds like their dieing.

[anf6789]

^^thats when it sounds the best!!! ohh nvm you have the v6 never heard that one, when you got it up to 7000 the fuel didn't shut off or anything? i think supercharging an m104 would be the coolest thing ever i would do it if i had a couple grand layin around,lol
if its such a bulletproof engine i thinks its fine.
any time i hit the gas hard while getting on the highway it goes all the way up there, its an amazing sound!

oh and also, does your manual have a rev limiter when you are parked? mine is like 4000rpm

[Nelson Lago]

manauls dont have park dud only autos plus he doesnt have a rev limeter well he does but its like 6k.................... and the v6 sounds good too just like i say its sounds liek its strugglin at 5k

[anf6789]

i know it doesnt have park, lol i just meant when he is in neutral or stopped.

[omeyhomey]

M104's are bulletproof, my 3.2L M104 revved to 6800 rpm stock with ease. The M104 is actually VERY similar to the M50/S50 bmw E36 engine. those can rev to 7200rpm (6800 rpm was the stock rev limiter). I would be shocked if the M104 couldn't handle at least 7200rpm if not more (most manufacturers create a very large safety zone in order to protect the engine from getting anywhere near its true max potential rpm).

However, you have to realize the only reason to increase your rev limiter is if your power band justifies it, if your power is dying at 6000+ theres no point in revving it to 7200 really.

[Nelson Lago]

ya i bet your right because i know the new 240 engine (2.5 v6) has to redline at like 7000 its small with 24 valves DOHC its has too and its says 6000 on tha tac but i dont belive it

[omeyhomey]

If I had to bet I would guess the M104 could not sustain 7500rpm for longer than a few seconds, so its "safe" redline is probably around 7200, and its stock redline was therefore set to 6800 a good 700rpm below its true limits. hope that helps

[RacerXofFL]

dumbest thread ever, well not the question, just the responses.


I have sucked up water in my m104, i made my own sea level, pulled the plugs, had 30' water guns in the air. drained the intake via the brake booster and compressed air, drove the car 30K more miles, and compression tested it. Sold it to a friend in good faith.


ever seen the benz mains. their indestructible.

their are many many many benz's over 500K miles, their's benz club badges.

http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/high-mileage.do

the heads may need rebuilt once and a while, but i have owned a car at 300K miles all it ever had was 1 timing chain and valve stem seals.

Don

[RacerXofFL]

wait, a memory just came back, only serious w202 failure ive ever heard of, kid pulled a w202 down to 2nd (auto) at 80+mph, a rod came free and cut the block in 2.

no joke, took the head off, block was 2 seprate pieces.


moral of the story: the redline should note be changed without the right cam and valve springs.

Don

[Nelson Lago]

well that tells you how strong the rods are from mercedes LOL

[C280/////AMG]

Well that makes me very proud to have an M104.

Yes, i've noticed that the M104 is very similar to the E36 328i engine, both in terms of bore and stroke and in term
s of power and torque outputs.

I believe tho that in the past mercedes used to line their cylinder sleeves with silica (i think from around 1987), or some similar compound, which apparently takes forever to wear out. However, if you re-bore your cyliinders out, you'll lose this finish and your sleeves will wear very quickly.

-Can anyone confirm this?
-Does the M104 use this technology? (Ocos i heard they stopped doing this for some reason)

[omeyhomey]

racer,

he's talking about the rpm limits. we know M104 is bulletproof as far as mileage, everyone knows that. Its RPM limit thats a different story b/c that really tests the valvetrain to see how much stress it can really take. Most hydraulic lifters can only take about 7500rpm for sustaing periods before they just give on inline 6 german engines so thats why I used that as a rough estimate. hope that helps

[Ashkan's C280]

the only thing I could say on this topic is I would assume the cost would be around 7k installed, these are numbers that I have been quoted for by hop. I did not look into it further because I doubt my car would even be sold for that amount. And while one can say that if you don't plan to resell the car it won't matter, and I can understand that one might really want to keep their car instead of getting a new, or that it is easier for some people to mod their car, then to buy a faster one. But it just doesn't seem worth it. Modding cars is not worth it... *sigh*

Actually you might not want to listen to me, I think I lost my passion for modding cars....

[C280/////AMG]

Ashkan, what happened?

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by RacerXofFL
dumbest thread ever, well not the question, just the responses.


I have sucked up water in my m104, i made my own sea level, pulled the plugs, had 30' water guns in the air. drained the intake via the brake booster and compressed air, drove the car 30K more miles, and compression tested it. Sold it to a friend in good faith.


ever seen the benz mains. their indestructible.

their are many many many benz's over 500K miles, their's benz club badges.

http://www.mbusa.com/heritage/high-mileage.do

the heads may need rebuilt once and a while, but i have owned a car at 300K miles all it ever had was 1 timing chain and valve stem seals.

Don

i couldn't agree more. the amount of complete bullshit i read on these forums lately, every day, is just ridiculous.

if anyone wanted to get serious about forced induction on an M104, the bottom end is rock-solid, and that was the original question/topic asked. lets not forget the search button, as jnenad has already supercharged a C280!! it's a cast iron block, and comparable to a chevy .010 4-bolt main in terms of durability.

i honestly don't think you would even need to go with the hardened steel crank, or new bearings or a rebuild of any sort. anyone can see that even the pics from the M111 show the design to be very very VERY strong. the only weakness is the head gasket, but who in their right mind would usethe infamous stock composite one anyway?

i don't think you would have any problems adding a supercharger, or turbo if you changed the compression, and that can be acheived by either having custom low compression pistons made (the spendy way, like paul/23K did), or using a spacer for the head and having a custom head gasket made. you would certainly have to have the head and spacer milled to perfection, as the tolerance with added preassure.. you get the idea.

any real wrench could do a turbo, or supercharger setup for about $3k with a piggy-back if it wasn't high boost. 6lbs of boost on an M104 would produce probably in the 260-275 rwhp range if i had to take an educated guess, WITH the drivetrain power loss of using the automatic. change the rear end gearing out, and you've got a really strong inline 6.

nelson, you irritate me with how fucking ridiculous your replies are. just shut your mouth until you at least pass your high school shop class, and change your own oil. the rev limiter is generally controlled by the ECU/ignition system.

i'm done with this site.
[/rant]

[C280/////AMG]

Originally posted by C280/////AMG
I believe tho that in the past mercedes used to line their cylinder sleeves with silica (i think from around 1987), or some similar compound, which apparently takes forever to wear out. However, if you re-bore your cyliinders out, you'll lose this finish and your sleeves will wear very quickly.

-Can anyone confirm this?
-Does the M104 use this technology? (cos i heard they stopped doing this for some reason)

ANYONE??

[blind26]

lol.. this thread gives me a good chuckled...

Number 1 failure for M104 motors and boost is in fact the head gasket. But if you look further into why the falures occur, it is improperly tuned setups. Anything that isn't controlling proper fueling/timeing (STOCK ECU setups/improper manual controls) is going to result in astronomical EGT values that ultimately lead to the demise of the headgasket, if not other issues.

Engine management and a good headgasket (I hear good things about the updated HG that Benz released), combined with sound tuning/realistic boost values should yeild a very stout setup...

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by C280/////AMG
ANYONE??

Jeff/Speedybenz covered a similar topic on this forum with sleeve inserts designed much the same way for durability.

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by blind26
lol.. this thread gives me a good chuckle...

Number 1 failure for M104 motors and boost is in fact the head gasket. But if you look further into why the falures occur, it is improperly tuned setups. Anything that isn't controlling proper fueling/timeing (STOCK ECU setups/improper manual controls) is going to result in astronomical EGT values that ultimately lead to the demise of the headgasket, if not other issues.

Engine management and a good headgasket (I hear good things about the updated HG that Benz released), combined with sound tuning/realistic boost values should yeild a very stout setup...

++