...Turbo C230K Dyno tuning...

[Pagz]

Finally...IT RUNS=)
But nothing ever goes off without a hitch in my world!...EVER=)

Was up pretty early moday morning,had alittle trouble sleeping that night,mostly about "have i wired it right","did the engine builders get timing correct","could the pistons have to large a clearance"...etc etc
Anyways the tow truck was ment to be here around 8.30,and it doesnt really help when they forget you and arrive at 10.30=),so it was almost lunch time before we arrived for the tune on the first day...and due to my late arrival dyno time wasnt going to happen till the following day....
So we spent the arvo getting info from the engine that the ECU would need to run...like how many teeth are on the magnetic pickup on the flywheel,and where the missing teeth were on the crank in relation to the hall effect cam sensor pickup...we were close to having to shift the cam tooth...ohh so lucky we didnt have too=)

Today we completed the base maps,did a final check and proceeded to start the engine...which looked more like it was on fire than anything else..lol,all the oils burnt off along with some of that flashy ceramic coating on the header...kinda wish i never tried so hard not to damage it on install!=)....
Apart from the masses of smoke flooding the building,the valve train sounded like it was being beaten with a thousand hammers...which it kinda was given the hydrolic lifters were compressed and in need of oil pressure to take up the play...this took around 20mins+ to stabilise!=),but once they took up play it all sounded smooth...thankfully=)

Soon after running the engine we shifted onto the dyno for further tuning and it wasnt long before we were seeing boost for the first time in waaay to long...however its never "that easy"...is it....

We have a situation at around 1800rpm WOT where the turbo produces great responce,but the engine isnt able to accept as much air as the turbo is producing..this results in compressor surge which is a rapid fluctuation in pressure which can easily destroy the compressor wheel and anything else it takes on the way...there is two ways we can fix this...either install a larger A/R turbine housing so that we dont get as much low down boost...or reduce the compressor size...so at the moment it looks like a "another" new turbine housing=)...

We also have a situation where the wastgate is not able to control boost after around 4000rpm and pressure rises at a steady rate to 15psi...this could be due to the wastegate being too small...or the wastgate piping being to restrictive...OR the turbine housing is just toooo small....so with some simple math i think we will upgrade to the larger turbine housing and go from there...changing wastgate size is truely a PITA...

The exhaust is alittle loud for this grandads liking but not too bad...will see how we go on road...
We had touble with cranking/starting all day...but managed to fix 5 mins before closeing...thats 5 mins after we slaughter my battery,lol...
the back left Work wheel is either bent or not sitting flat on the disk...this made for a bumpy dyno tune...will sort that out asap.


Im not to sure how we ended up with a few resonable dyno runs...kinda thought we'd be taking it very easy...and apparently we where....Soo on a shitty tune it ran just over 220kW's at the rear wheels...which for all those who just cant use kW's,its just shy of 300Hp...which with a conservative(?) 10% loss in transmission could be around 330Hp at the engine...pretty happy with that and its only early days!=)=)=)
no dyno graphs just yet as there stored on the comp...but will hopully get a print out tomorrow...
I got a video of one of the dyno runs..theres alot of background noise so its hard to hear...i'll join up to a host side and see what i can do.


At least the cooling and fuel systems didnt leak!...I spent all week fixing them and they weren't under pressure!!!...also totally forgot about idle control..need to sort that too along with all the christmas lights on the dash hmmm
Anyways will update more when we go back for more tuning and another turbine housing=)


Laters all,
Paul

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_347_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_346_full.jpg

[pisit]

Well, let me be the first one to congratulate in this thread:D
Totally understand how happy you would be when your baby fired up after a long time.
hope to see the 400 hp at the wheel soon;)

[C280_Spawrt]

...:cool:

[Green Lantern]

this thread = sex :D

[Proven Guilty]

better late than never! my hats off to you paul; and a great read! looks like you've got your homework list down pat, so hopefully things turn out for the best in the next couple of weeks.

first thing i would check; weren't you running spacers in the rear with the milanos? could you have left one on, or is there a chance they're not hubcentric?

the cam shifting.. heh, that's a bit nerve wracking. wish i knew more about turbines and such to help out but i'm confident you'll get the bugs worked out. can't wait to see those 425hp+ slips that impress even YOU.

[anf6789]

nice work!! your car is the coolest looking 202 with the coolest looking engine bay!

[C280/////AMG]

Paul, i have to congratulate you for your persistence and your results. This is without doubt gonna be the most spoken-about 202 on the forum, and perhaps in the world!

Now get ur ass into that workshop and get us a dyno!!! :p :p

[undercover]

congrats paul!
hope alls goes well with the beast!

[Nelson Lago]

nice 300hp what els did you do beside a turbo (ex intake, exhaust, ecu) and i was thinkin about turboing my 280 and was wounder how did you up grade your fuel system like injectors that the only problem i could see.............................is it supercharged and turbo or what?

[Green Lantern]

oh that thing is turboed alright..that turbine is HUGE and he has alot of custom work under that hood. good job dude.

[Nelson Lago]

if its so big how come he wants to go bigger i would want a small turbo because my 202 is automatic (not luckly enugh to get a manual here) and run a nice 8psi of boost due to stock internals

[undercover]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
if its so big how come he wants to go bigger i would want a small turbo because my 202 is automatic (not luckly enugh to get a manual here) and run a nice 8psi of boost due to stock internals

hes upgrading his turbine not the whole turbo; to allow the engine to accept more air, it has to be balance'd or something migh blow up :D
you can always get a conversion from auto to manual :)..
i find auto turbos lag to much..

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
nice 300hp what els did you do beside a turbo (ex intake, exhaust, ecu) and i was thinkin about turboing my 280 and was wounder how did you up grade your fuel system like injectors that the only problem i could see.............................is it supercharged and turbo or what?

to be honest, paul's engine is almost a complete 1-off, aside from the block, crank, thermostat, and brackets lol.

it started as a C230K, and he removed the supercharger, switched to an N/A pulley, built a custom fuel rail, had custom forged pistons machined, ball-peened his connecting rods, everything balanced, blueprinted, and rolling assembly balanced, updated oil pump if i recall, custom exhaust header with waste gate, oil cooled turbine, removed the drive by wire system, 100% pure motec stand-alone fuel management system, high flowing exhaust system with cats removed but retained resonators, eibach swaybars, eibach springs, koni shocks, custom adjustable rear-camber arms, custom 3-piece wheels, upgraded OEM brakes (pads, rotors, soon to be flushed fluid) etc etc etc.

not to mention he fabbed his own intake, radiator resovoir, and many other under-hood tanks. he also upgraded to a much higher volume I.C. made by trust, and everything is either ceramic coated for heat reduction (exhaust from the block down to the cats) as well as silicon piping to reduce as much heat absorbtion as possible. pretty sure he's got everything ported and high polished as well, and glued together forever with full ARP bolts. he also modified the stock oil pan to feed the turbo, and has full gagues through a digital display for exhaust temp, fuel preassure, oil preassure, etc. the list goes on and on and on!

this car is going to turn some SERIOUS FUCKING POWER when it's DIALED in. :D :cool:

[c280nz]

fuk me that is alot of power for a relatively early on tune
:-)
man i bet it sounded nice!
you prolly already have the most powerful 202 on the forum now and you havent even finished dyno tuning :-)

im in love :D

[c280nz]

.... im sorry but i have to post again
congratulations man!
im so impressed and stoked 4 ya!
this long build story in nearly at an end.... what am i going to read on the forums after this??

dont worry tho il keep the kiwi benz tuning going, my pan is coming out in the next few days for an oil return ;)

[chewiguy]

This is by far the sexiest 202 ever!

Congrats!

[trymonlam]

best of luck to u, paul.
hope to see it running at spec.

[Mercedes DIY]

Originally posted by 23K

But nothing ever goes off without a hitch in my world!...EVER=)



don't feel to bad. I think this happens to everyone ;)

[SLAMMED_C]

PAUL!!!!
oh my! the beast is alive! great to hear its up and running dude.
too bad for the slight issue with boost at low rpm's.. hopefully you can fix this issue soon and get some huge numbers from the dyno.
thats insane for a first pull!!.. almost 300hp to the wheels!! NICE. Im jealous!!.. I want my 202 to have 300hp!
good work Paul, it was all worth it.. just gotta work out a few bugs and enjoy the car finally.

[Pagz]

Hi all,
thanks for all your replies,sorry i havent got back sooner it's not looking too good...

It started to blow blue on decaleration after the first day...we thought maybe the rings would bed in once we got a few k's on the engine...but its not getting any better.
It could be valve seals but very unlikley given they were replaced when the head was off.

SoOo looks like new pistons/rings.
Its uncertain whats caused the problem,it could be we pushed it too hard the first day,or the engine builders did a poor job(more than likely)...but anyhow its running alright at the moment so after we shift house in the next few weeks we will look at the extent of the problem and go from there...

just another bump in the road.
please excuse the lack of replies to posts have got alot on plate at moment,laters all.
Paul

[Green Lantern]

damn that sucks, well good luck anyway dude.

[Nelson Lago]

hay kinda stupid question but does any know if the 06' 280 (3liter)cyl heads will fit on the 99 280 im thinking of boring my 99 280

[omeyhomey]

Congrats paul, amazing work.

So what you expecting, 800-900 @ the wheels ;) :D

[spm 16v benz]

Pulling the head off.....damn you better not have too cause that would suck. But congrats on the project, this is purely a awesome machine.......I want one, hopefully soon will:cool:

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by 23K
Hi all,
thanks for all your replies,sorry i havent got back sooner it's not looking too good...

It started to blow blue on decaleration after the first day...we thought maybe the rings would bed in once we got a few k's on the engine...but its not getting any better.
It could be valve seals but very unlikley given they were replaced when the head was off.

SoOo looks like new pistons/rings.
Its uncertain whats caused the problem,it could be we pushed it too hard the first day,or the engine builders did a poor job(more than likely)...but anyhow its running alright at the moment so after we shift house in the next few weeks we will look at the extent of the problem and go from there...

just another bump in the road.
please excuse the lack of replies to posts have got alot on plate at moment,laters all.
Paul

ughhh that sucks! are you sure you're looking at piston rings? does the smoke ever dissapear after you warm up? if so, i think you may be right with the valve guides.. the chevy blocks will comsume oil from the valve guides leaking, and once it burns off, no harm no foul.

do you hear any piston slap at all if you cold start? i'm hopeing its only valve guides or rings, but dude that shit sucks.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Proven Guilty
ughhh that sucks! are you sure you're looking at piston rings? does the smoke ever dissapear after you warm up? if so, i think you may be right with the valve guides.. the chevy blocks will comsume oil from the valve guides leaking, and once it burns off, no harm no foul.

do you hear any piston slap at all if you cold start? i'm hopeing its only valve guides or rings, but dude that shit sucks.

Hey PG,
Excuse the late reply have been shifting house,+ havent had a net connection because of it...

its still blowing blue,each piston appares to have some oil on top of it..so it looks like the rings never bed in properly...its not blowing much and blows nothing under power or cruise so will order the larger turbine housing this week,remove the manifold and see if we can make the waste alittle more free flowing,sort out all other issues before we decide on opening her again!!
there is alittle piston slap when its cold,you can only just hear it.

heres one of the dyno runs,it wasnt the highest output we got,but it best shows whats going on...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_349_full.jpg

Cheers all for the comments,will hopfully post up more when i know...its all in storage atm because we dont have a garage...need to get one asap


paul

[Green Lantern]

good luck with the car and the moving.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Green Lantern
good luck with the car and the moving.

Thanks mang=)

[C280/////AMG]

Hey Paul, regarding the blue smoke (i.e. oil consumption), i'm quite sure it's got to do with improper ring-seating because...

What exactly did the guys do? did they bore the sleeves out or did they just hone them? Cos apparently every MB engine since the late 80s got a silica coating on the sleeves, which drastically reduced friction and extended the life of the sleeve and rings. but the same time is very expensive to re-do, besides most engineers don't know about it. Apparently if this silica coating isn't put back/applied after a mod to the sleeves, one can expect irregular ring-seating and excessive ring/sleeve wear. Did you guys take this into consideration?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by C280/////AMG
Hey Paul, regarding the blue smoke (i.e. oil consumption), i'm quite sure it's got to do with improper ring-seating because...

What exactly did the guys do? did they bore the sleeves out or did they just hone them? Cos apparently every MB engine since the late 80s got a silica coating on the sleeves, which drastically reduced friction and extended the life of the sleeve and rings. but the same time is very expensive to re-do, besides most engineers don't know about it. Apparently if this silica coating isn't put back/applied after a mod to the sleeves, one can expect irregular ring-seating and excessive ring/sleeve wear. Did you guys take this into consideration?

Interesting,there are no sleeves as such,the block was only honed!,will look into this alittle more,thanks!

[pisit]

Hi Paul,
are you experiencing excessive weight on the right side of the car? since your is right-handed like mine.
if so, have u done anything to balance out the car?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
Hi Paul,
are you experiencing excessive weight on the right side of the car? since your is right-handed like mine.
if so, have u done anything to balance out the car?

Hey,
Yeh mine sits lower on the right hand side too,without me in it.
im guessing its weight but not completely sure without somehow independantly weighing each side...

You could purchase the KW suspension kit...then you could adjust ride height either side to suit.
the cheap option would be to use spring pads...but i dont want to raise my lower side=) ...or cut the springs on the higher side...but thats alittle rough too.

Hows the turbo setup running?...this week i got my RPM signal back up for the cluster...however when the sensor is connected to the OE ecu before startup it interfares with the motec for some reason...have had the scope on it but so far no clear picture of whats causing it.

Laters,
Paul

[pisit]

Hi Paul,
same here, don't wanna use the spring pad option neither.

well i just put myself in a adventurous position again. I've noticed that my wastegate actuator was in a bad shape for a while so i change a new one. The problem was the boost rouse up to 13 psi, which was way too high for a standard engine with a compression rate of a c220 engine. i'm checking out the gasket from C230K engine as well, don't know if it's gonna fit or not.

I've also ordered the HKS EVC 5, the new electronic boost controller. which it's also compatible with F-CON SZ where the tuner can use both PowerWriter (fuel/ignition) and EasyWriter (boost) to map with load/rpm spontaneous.

Also i'm gonna do some research on manual transmission swapping, but not gonna have it in any time soon.

[Pagz]

Hey,
all Sounds good man,
Im not sure if there will be much difference in the head gasket on the C230K...more than likely the same!?

[Under Pressure]

I have not logged in for a very long time, I just wanted to say congrats on this car. Last I rremember, shop was taking forever fabbing the manifold. Man thats a beast. And sexy too!

[pisit]

Hi Paul,
one quick question, what manual transmission fluid are you using?
Redline?
i just got mine swop to a 5-speed manual so was looking for a high-quality synthetic oil for it.
Cheers,
Troy

[c280nz]

you are supposed to run an atf style fluid, aparantly it has something to do with syncro life.
but yea good question, what fluid u running.

how u finding the new manual cog swapper there pisit?

[Cru328prod]

anyone come with a final cost on a turbo set up for a c230k

[pisit]

Originally posted by c280nz
you are supposed to run an atf style fluid, aparantly it has something to do with syncro life.
but yea good question, what fluid u running.

how u finding the new manual cog swapper there pisit?
Hi Logan,
got the gear from germany from what the mechanic told me, driving is good, 1st and 2nd gear are a bit to short from my opinion. Still having a slight problem with the clutch and the position of the peddle and how i sit. didn't cost as much as i thought around 1.1k USD labour cost included.

yeah heard that they require ATF as well, but just wanna confirm with someone is been using it for a while. from a MB qualification would be 236.2/6, but i was looking for sth else. so i think i would need to look for a Dexron IID or IIE grade if i wanna go fully-synthetic.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
Hi Paul,
one quick question, what manual transmission fluid are you using?
Redline?
i just got mine swop to a 5-speed manual so was looking for a high-quality synthetic oil for it.
Cheers,
Troy

Hey Troy,
Im running Redline synthetic i think is D4 - ATF,Runs really well!.
Also Run Redline synthetic in the diff...think it was 70/90...hmm its been to long since i worked on her =)

Hows the manual transmission?...mine no longer handles the Hp,i have to be on a slight downhill slope for it to not slip in 3rd/4th...
i would guess your not far from having this problem as well =)

Cheers,
Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
I have not logged in for a very long time, I just wanted to say congrats on this car. Last I rremember, shop was taking forever fabbing the manifold. Man thats a beast. And sexy too!

Thanks man=)
Still lots of problems to iron out...will def get there one day =D

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey Troy,
Im running Redline synthetic i think is D4 - ATF,Runs really well!.
Also Run Redline synthetic in the diff...think it was 70/90...hmm its been to long since i worked on her =)

Hows the manual transmission?...mine no longer handles the Hp,i have to be on a slight downhill slope for it to not slip in 3rd/4th...
i would guess your not far from having this problem as well =)

Cheers,
Paul
I'm using Valvoline synthetic gear oil now, much smoother shift :D. however still thinking of using Redline or Mobil.

having problem with the clutch slipping alot too. doesn't seem like it's doing its job well. i've just got my rebuild clutch plate y'day which i asked them to use copper material instead. will have it install this weekend and see how it runs.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb239/toei06/DSCN06621.jpg
im using the OEM cover clutch now, still want the light pedal feel. but if it's not handling the hp like urs, guess i've no other choice:bored:

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey Troy,
Im running Redline synthetic i think is D4 - ATF,Runs really well!.
Also Run Redline synthetic in the diff...think it was 70/90...hmm its been to long since i worked on her =)

Hows the manual transmission?...mine no longer handles the Hp,i have to be on a slight downhill slope for it to not slip in 3rd/4th...
i would guess your not far from having this problem as well =)

Cheers,
Paul
slipping out of third and fourth? can you hold it in or does it just pop out? here is a few pics, mite be time to strip that be-arch down and replace a few parts.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2512000-2512999/2512660_17_full.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2512000-2512999/2512660_18_full.jpg

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
slipping out of third and fourth? can you hold it in or does it just pop out? here is a few pics, mite be time to strip that be-arch down and replace a few parts.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2512000-2512999/2512660_17_full.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2512000-2512999/2512660_18_full.jpg

Hey logan,
The gearbox is going strong so far,just clutch is slipping!

nice pics btw =)

so the selector arm was worn on yours?,so you brased it and filed it back to fit snug?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
I'm using Valvoline synthetic gear oil now, much smoother shift :D. however still thinking of using Redline or Mobil.

having problem with the clutch slipping alot too. doesn't seem like it's doing its job well. i've just got my rebuild clutch plate y'day which i asked them to use copper material instead. will have it install this weekend and see how it runs.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb239/toei06/DSCN06621.jpg
im using the OEM cover clutch now, still want the light pedal feel. but if it's not handling the hp like urs, guess i've no other choice:bored:

Cool,so thats a custom friction disk?
...doesnt the OE plate have a sprung centre?
I guess is doesnt really matter if the new one does or doesnt have it as the dual mass flywheel does the job anyway.

Let me know how you get on this may be the easiest way for me to solve my slip too,as im not keen on a heavier pedal!
4-puck should be pretty grippy i would think?...maybe 6 might still grip and be alittle smoother?

[Section 8]

so you have roughly 300bhp from your c230


that is what im talkin about

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
Cool,so thats a custom friction disk?
...doesnt the OE plate have a sprung centre?
I guess is doesnt really matter if the new one does or doesnt have it as the dual mass flywheel does the job anyway.

Let me know how you get on this may be the easiest way for me to solve my slip too,as im not keen on a heavier pedal!
4-puck should be pretty grippy i would think?...maybe 6 might still grip and be alittle smoother?
hi Pual,
gripping is superb, but very difficult to get the car roll in first gear especially in traffic. i would reckon to go for the 6 puck.
the OE clutch is a solid plate so, and as u've said the dual mass does it job, not that good though but tolerable. at first i can't find the rhythm of clutch and throttle, make driving very jumpy indeed.
anywayz, changing the clutch help in my case, but i have sth new to think abt again:bored: seem like there's very little traction at the rear, wheel spin from 1-3 gear
:D well don't know is that good thing or bad thing. oh well, i expected more from a 255 tyre

[c280nz]

im sorry for posting those pics paul i miss took a coment and thought you ment your gearbox was slipping out of gear, not your clutch :o my bad

and yea the stock clutch disk is solid centre, because the dual mass takes up all the vibration.
nice clutch pisit

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
im sorry for posting those pics paul i miss took a coment and thought you ment your gearbox was slipping out of gear, not your clutch :o my bad

and yea the stock clutch disk is solid centre, because the dual mass takes up all the vibration.
nice clutch pisit

All good,hey so was the selector arm was worn on yours causing it to slip out of gear?...Iv never worked on the internals of a manual transmission myself before,this is interesting stuff =)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
hi Pual,
gripping is superb, but very difficult to get the car roll in first gear especially in traffic. i would reckon to go for the 6 puck.
the OE clutch is a solid plate so, and as u've said the dual mass does it job, not that good though but tolerable. at first i can't find the rhythm of clutch and throttle, make driving very jumpy indeed.
anywayz, changing the clutch help in my case, but i have sth new to think abt again:bored: seem like there's very little traction at the rear, wheel spin from 1-3 gear
:D well don't know is that good thing or bad thing. oh well, i expected more from a 255 tyre

Hey!,ahh thought that may be the case...its fairly common to hear of people having drivabilty trouble with those puck clutches!,give it some time you might get used to it or it will bed in and be slightly smoother maybe,and i guess you could try a 6 puck or more if all else fails.


haha no traction with 255's!!!,you must be running some really decent hp now? =)

[c280nz]

nah myne didnt slip out of gear just a bit sloppy.
i pulled down my g/box and replaced all the bearings throughout,
everything else was pritty good

yea and lighting up 255s in 1-3 nice show of hp, how much boost you feeding to that poor little 2.2ltr to do that :)

[pisit]

Originally posted by c280nz
nah myne didnt slip out of gear just a bit sloppy.
i pulled down my g/box and replaced all the bearings throughout,
everything else was pritty good

yea and lighting up 255s in 1-3 nice show of hp, how much boost you feeding to that poor little 2.2ltr to do that :)
toturing the 2.2 at 14psi :devious: with every internal parts standard! just head polish work and nth else. amazingly there isn't any knock at all. don't know how long the engine will last though.
oh well, worse come to worse, will get custom Mahle or CP forged piston:D

[Pagz]

14psi with that high compression!! :D

I would guess your running over 300hp with that?!,what fuel are you running?(definatly 98+ me thinks)

The internals should hold up ok(i think)...as long as you avoid any knock or pre igntion =)....anyhow it will be a good test of the OE stength!,i wish i had left mine stock so i could have tested it also!.

I dont get much wheel spin atm,as the wastegate is hard open from idle(5.5psi spring)...but when i finally install the new housing and get boost undercontrol with the motec i should get much more power in the lower rpm.


cheers

[pisit]

running on 95, the highest octane i can get here.

with the F-Con SZ piggyback i can control the fuel with no problem, but i'm trying to find a way to control the ignition timing. the way that my mechanic can think of, is that i need to modified the OE ecu by bypassing the ignition driver and use the one from the F-Con. Sound very complicated, so I'm not really sure how it would be done. if i can get the control the ignition time right, i think i can avoid the knock and pre-ignition problem.

i'm using a HKS EVC 6 boost control unit. it's a great unit but pretty hard to get the initial setting right. the unit uses a stepping motor to control the wastegate instead of a solenoid. mine is an internal wastegate with 6 psi spring. With its soft spring, it causes a boost drop at higher rpm. EVC has the map boost feature that help me fixed this problem. Since u r using an external wastegate and motec, i think that it would make thing easier. i would recommend using an stepping motor.

[RemoLexi]

hey just out of curiousity,

how difficult is it to add a piggyback?

does it replace the OE ecu ?

[pisit]

not that difficult from what i was told. some wire mod, sensor calibration and tuning. it's doesn't replace the OE ecu. there are two types of piggback, the one manipulating input signal and the other one manipulates the output. F-Con use the output method. i think e-manage ultimate works the same way but can't change ignition timing.

but for the f-con, u would need some with the access to the powerwriter software offered by authorized HKS tuner.

[RemoLexi]

and how much does an f-con cost ?

[c280nz]

i have the greddy e-manage.
it has the option to control ignition timing, but also is very complicated.
so pisit are you running stock ignition timing at present?

[pisit]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
and how much does an f-con cost ?
about 1,000 USD with installation and tuning

Originally posted by c280nz
i have the greddy e-manage.
it has the option to control ignition timing, but also is very complicated.
so pisit are you running stock ignition timing at present?
sorry for the miss info for emanage:p
i'm running stock ignition but soon to be change, i just drop my old ecu to my tuner today. see if he can figure out what to do with the ignition timing. if not, i will stick with the currently setup for a while.

[c280nz]

that is impressive on stock timing.

Paul one of my mates was telling me about a silver turbo c23 with a kit in the latest performance car mag!!!
so i had a look online
http://www.performancecar.co.nz/current-issue/resolveuid/33febf6f5d6d4262b04e8752a381d97d/image_large

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
running on 95, the highest octane i can get here.

with the F-Con SZ piggyback i can control the fuel with no problem, but i'm trying to find a way to control the ignition timing. the way that my mechanic can think of, is that i need to modified the OE ecu by bypassing the ignition driver and use the one from the F-Con. Sound very complicated, so I'm not really sure how it would be done. if i can get the control the ignition time right, i think i can avoid the knock and pre-ignition problem.

i'm using a HKS EVC 6 boost control unit. it's a great unit but pretty hard to get the initial setting right. the unit uses a stepping motor to control the wastegate instead of a solenoid. mine is an internal wastegate with 6 psi spring. With its soft spring, it causes a boost drop at higher rpm. EVC has the map boost feature that help me fixed this problem. Since u r using an external wastegate and motec, i think that it would make thing easier. i would recommend using an stepping motor.


If the F-con has ignition drivers as you say you should be able to install a dual ignition module(2 in 1 solid state relay)and feed the two OE wasted spark coil packs from it.
you would just need to remove the two ignition wires from the OE ecu.

Do you have ASR still active?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
that is impressive on stock timing.

Paul one of my mates was telling me about a silver turbo c23 with a kit in the latest performance car mag!!!
so i had a look online
http://www.performancecar.co.nz/current-issue/resolveuid/33febf6f5d6d4262b04e8752a381d97d/image_large

Yeh man thats me :)

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
If the F-con has ignition drivers as you say you should be able to install a dual ignition module(2 in 1 solid state relay)and feed the two OE wasted spark coil packs from it.
you would just need to remove the two ignition wires from the OE ecu.

Do you have ASR still active?
mine doesn't have ASR to worry about
mayb that cause the wheel spin

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
mine doesn't have ASR to worry about
mayb that cause the wheel spin

Ah thats right yours has a standard mechanical throttle body?,fairly sure only the drive by wire models had ASR but i may be wrong.
I dont have ASR either anymore as the ASR module has no control over the engine,the light is perminantly up on the dash will need to fix that one day!.

Haha unfortunatly lack of ASR doesnt cause wheel spin =D...it could only be alllll those horses you have =)

[c280nz]

just do what i do with warning lights...
take out bulbs :D

[RemoLexi]

Originally posted by c280nz
just do what i do with warning lights...
take out bulbs :D

or just stick black electric tape over the instrument cluster so it blocks the light. :D

[Section 8]

23k post up the pages of the mag with ya car init so we can all havea look

[Pagz]

haha yeh probly just take out the bulb for the ASR =),failing that tape will do =P

But then theres the ABS and SRS...which i think will need to go to be able to get a wof =)....would rather have them actually work properly then install a timed circuit to switch them =)


Ah yeah it may be possible to scan the mag as have a scanner here at work though might have to find a site to host in a higher res than cardomain does =)

[Pagz]

Here we go...the write up is ok,a few things in the write up arn't 100% correct due to some confusion of what was done but its very close.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Pagz/NZPCmercspread.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Pagz/NZPCMercspead2.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Pagz/NZPCmercspread3.jpg

Cheers,
Paul

[trymonlam]

great to have paul to represent the 202 community!

[pisit]

RESPECT MANG!

[c280nz]

*goes to shop to buy magazine*

just out of interest do you have any logs of the a/f ratio from your tune or driving?
i just bought a wideband and are going to basic tune myself.

[Pagz]

thanks guys =)


Pretty keen there logan =)
sorry dont have any of the a/f ratio maps,and i cant load anything off the motec as i currently dont run a wideband sensor,it runs completely off air/fuel maps.

[C280_Spawrt]

ah i can't read the words!!!!!

WOW that is such an accomplishment Paul, you really are doing some innovative things to your car and are helping to pave way for other members like ourselves to tackle creative projects of our own. best of luck to you and your car

Anthony

[Pagz]

Ah sorry about that Anthony,its as big as photobucket allowsme to show it,anyone know another site to hoste it larger?

Thanks man,it took alot of effort to get to where it is....Unfortunatly it hasnt all been without a trade-off...

Tip of the day: If you do follow a similar path make sure you spend more time with your gurl than on your car.....because if she decides to leave theres a high chance you will loose all that hard work anyway =)

Cheers,
Paul

[OCKlasse]

:D :D

REPRESENTIN!!!

Bad ass Paul, your 202 is one of my idols :D

[Len013091]

Originally posted by 23K
Ah sorry about that Anthony,its as big as photobucket allowsme to show it,anyone know another site to hoste it larger?

Thanks man,it took alot of effort to get to where it is....Unfortunatly it hasnt all been without a trade-off...

Tip of the day: If you do follow a similar path make sure you spend more time with your gurl than on your car.....because if she decides to leave theres a high chance you will loose all that hard work anyway =)

Cheers,
Paul

I can host them full res on my site should you need that. Also, have you thought about a C36 rear bumper? Seems like it would go well with the front of the car and continue the line of the C36 side skirts.

[C280_Spawrt]

imageshack.us

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K

Tip of the day: If you do follow a similar path make sure you spend more time with your gurl than on your car.....because if she decides to leave theres a high chance you will loose all that hard work anyway =)

Cheers,
Paul
dont most of us know it ;)

but alot of gurls come and go as they please anyway.. if its not because of the car, its because of the motorbike, and if its not the bike its your roudy mates bla bla bla.

[benzboy]

Hey Paul

If you email them to me I can host them on the eurosport server at whetever size you want?

[predrag1]

mega drool over the article and the pics

congrats, car looks fantastic and the engine bay is jaw dropping


I love it how you kept the interior and most of the body stock

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Len013091
I can host them full res on my site should you need that. Also, have you thought about a C36 rear bumper? Seems like it would go well with the front of the car and continue the line of the C36 side skirts.

Cheers len,yep have thought about the 36 rear for sure it may happen one day=)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
dont most of us know it ;)

but alot of gurls come and go as they please anyway.. if its not because of the car, its because of the motorbike, and if its not the bike its your roudy mates bla bla bla.


haha yeh=)


man unfortunatly i havnt been single for nearly 6 years and even when i was it wasnt for too long this gonna be some wierd shit =)...

[Pagz]

Originally posted by predrag1
mega drool over the article and the pics

congrats, car looks fantastic and the engine bay is jaw dropping


I love it how you kept the interior and most of the body stock

Thx man:)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzboy
Hey Paul

If you email them to me I can host them on the eurosport server at whetever size you want?

Hey Tom,
Ill send them to you tomorrow there on my work comp!

Cheers

[RemoLexi]

thats one mean ass C230.

:)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
thats one mean ass C230.

:)

Cheers dude,you got that turbo in there yet?

[SLAMMED_C]

awesome mang.. see you got into that mag of your buddies! congrats on the car and magazine article. is the car finally finished now?
sweet write up. car looks amazing bud.

any other plans for the car.. or is that it?!! I bet youre gurl will appreciate the extra money for her to spend since its not going to your can now!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
awesome mang.. see you got into that mag of your buddies! congrats on the car and magazine article. is the car finally finished now?
sweet write up. car looks amazing bud.

any other plans for the car.. or is that it?!! I bet youre gurl will appreciate the extra money for her to spend since its not going to your can now!

Hey!,
Thanks dude,nope its not fininshed theres a heap i would like to fix/change but that will have to wait...possibly forever =) I havent spent any on the car for the last 6 months!,unfortunatly as of the night before last i wont be having to spend money on my gurl anymore =(
Hows yours going you still traveling to see her?

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey!,
Thanks dude,nope its not fininshed theres a heap i would like to fix/change but that will have to wait...possibly forever =) I havent spent any on the car for the last 6 months!,unfortunatly as of the night before last i wont be having to spend money on my gurl anymore =(
Hows yours going you still traveling to see her?
there is always a heap of things to change or that you dont like. modding is a curse!! cant stop the mods.
Im sorry to hear dude.. you must be a bit of a wreck.. you were with her for a while.
id take ya out for some beers if I were in New Zealand bud.
yeh.. Im making the 360km drive each way still.. every weekend!
long drives man.. long drives!!.. just had to replace the diff the other week.. pinion blew apart and took out the ring gear also. had to get towed about 260km back home! but all fixed up.. got a used diff for a good price.
so I now have a spare diff (minus the pinion and ring!!) that I may get some 3.73 for!! just a thought.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
there is always a heap of things to change or that you dont like. modding is a curse!! cant stop the mods.
Im sorry to hear dude.. you must be a bit of a wreck.. you were with her for a while.
id take ya out for some beers if I were in New Zealand bud.
yeh.. Im making the 360km drive each way still.. every weekend!
long drives man.. long drives!!.. just had to replace the diff the other week.. pinion blew apart and took out the ring gear also. had to get towed about 260km back home! but all fixed up.. got a used diff for a good price.
so I now have a spare diff (minus the pinion and ring!!) that I may get some 3.73 for!! just a thought.

Cheers bro,i would definatly have taken you up on that offer if you were!!

holy crap 360k's! man no wonder the diff went you must have clocked up some serious k's in the last year or so =),great commitment though man!... bad luck on the break in the middle of nowhere though that must have been a pain!!?


whats the stock ratio for your diff?...is 3.73 alittle shorter?

Paul

[Pagz]

Heres the high res version,thanks to Tom.



http://www.eurosport.org.nz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5496.0;id=1650;ima ge

http://www.eurosport.org.nz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5496.0;id=1652;ima ge

http://www.eurosport.org.nz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5496.0;id=1654;ima ge


Paul

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Cheers bro,i would definatly have taken you up on that offer if you were!!

holy crap 360k's! man no wonder the diff went you must have clocked up some serious k's in the last year or so =),great commitment though man!... bad luck on the break in the middle of nowhere though that must have been a pain!!?


whats the stock ratio for your diff?...is 3.73 alittle shorter?

Paul

gotta get my boy pissed after such a bad thing man.
oh yeh.. trust me, I put a hell of alot of km's on my car since my gurl has been away at school. i do about 720-750km a weekend!
oh yeh.. it was basically in the middle of no-where! but Im a member of an autombile club.. so free tow most of the way. still had to pay for 60km of the tow.. $140!! but all good.
yeh I cant ditch my car man.. too much time and money into her. gotta keep it running.
so got a new.. well used diff for it. workin well so far. stock gear is 3.27.. so Id like to do 3.73 or 3.83 I think.

[c280nz]

were are you going to get a diff with a ratio that high from?
i dont think they make them that high to fit our cars

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by c280nz
were are you going to get a diff with a ratio that high from?
i dont think they make them that high to fit our cars
Im pretty sure the diff from a c43 has a different ratio. if not I can just find a pinion and ring gear that will fit my housing.

[RemoLexi]

kind of catching a topic here, but why would you want 3.73 ratio? :)

[Proven Guilty]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
kind of catching a topic here, but why would you want 3.73 ratio? :)

with a stick, that 1st and 2nd gear is much more fun ;)

[DRM]

paul you have to be a member to see the pics, maybe upload them to imageshack.us?

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
kind of catching a topic here, but why would you want 3.73 ratio? :)
Alot more bottom end.. so more torque off the line!!

[pisit]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Alot more bottom end.. so more torque off the line!!
slammed_c
is ur transmission auto or manual?
if it's auto, dont u wanna try the diff from a manual first? the manual diff is at 3.67 which i think is very short for me.