Other OEM BBK's?

[VIP_MBZ]

It's well known that the C32 AMG brakes are bolt-on with no modification (other than the inverted caliper issue)... are there any other AMG calipers that bolt on similarly? The 6 and 8 piston variety are very nice units and don't cost too much compared to aftermarket.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

good question.. and I will say yes the 6piston and 8piston calipers should fit/bolt right up. Im not sure about caliper orientation as with the same issue and the C32 calipers with leading and trailing edge pistons.
I will be able to shed some light on this topic soon. so hold on for another reply in the next day or 2.

but I know the W211 E55 brakes cost similar price.. maybe even cheaper then the Brembo BBK, and many of the other kits out there (AP Racing...)
the only issue you will have with the OEM BBK's is caliper to rim clearance and brake disc clearance on the hub (to backing plate). dont know if these are issues or not.
but either the 6piston or 8piston caliper looks the business!

[OCKlasse]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
It's well known that the C32 AMG brakes are bolt-on with no modification (other than the inverted caliper issue)... are there any other AMG calipers that bolt on similarly? The 6 and 8 piston variety are very nice units and don't cost too much compared to aftermarket.

-Ray

wanna see me your old brakes :p...I call first dibs!

[jnolte]

would the master cylinder be able to creat enough pressure?

[SLAMMED_C]

okay.. well Im very dissappointed here. I just spent about an hour test fitting some brakes on my car.

I was going to do a whole stealth conversion and post up some sick pics of W211 front calipers on my car!!
but they dont fit.. well easily. lets put it that way.
if I really wanted, I can get them to fit. but it will take lots and lots of work!!
first issue with the W211 calipers is mounting the discs on the hub.. the offset of the disc is so high that it hits the brake disc backing plate.. so i remove my hub and remove the backing plate.. guess what, the brake disc hit the lower ball joint.
so i mounted the disc anyway.. kinda loosely!

Next I mounted the caliper.. it sits slightly crooked.. not straight up and down (the bracket on the spindle isnt oriented for the W211 caliper!) and the bolt holes in the stock mounting points on the spindle are too small for the bolts used on the W211 calipers.. and the bolts for the stock calipers are too skinny to catch any threads in the W211 bracket.. I just ended up pushing the skinny bolt through the hole to get it to sit there and not move around.. seemed to work.

The disc kinda centered itself when the caliper was mounted up.. there is about a 1/2 gap between the hub surface and the brake disc hub!

now it was time to mount the wheel.. with the way the caliper is slightly crooked it touches the rim very slightly on the top side of the caliper, the next issue is I cant get the wheel bolt to catch any threads in the hub (too much distance between the hub and wheel).
but funally enough I think the caliper would actually clear the 18" AMG W210 wheel.. too bad I cant mount it up to see.

So all in all it was kinda a waste of time.. but I do know for sure the W211 calipers will not bolt up to the w202 without significant mods to make them work. so if anyone wanted to know.. there you go!!


The Pics:

My Stock Brakes:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_505_full.jpg

Stock To W211 Brake Disc Comparision:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_506_full.jpg

The Caliper:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_510_full.jpg

W211 Brakes "Mounted" Up:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_507_full.jpg

Wheel Back On.. See The Huge Calipers!:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_508_full.jpg

Close Up Of Caliper Behind Wheel:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_509_full.jpg

[OCKlasse]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
okay.. well Im very dissappointed here. I just spent about an hour test fitting some brakes on my car.

I was going to do a whole stealth conversion and post up some sick pics of W211 front calipers on my car!!
but they dont fit.. well easily. lets put it that way.
if I really wanted, I can get them to fit. but it will take lots and lots of work!!
first issue with the W211 calipers is mounting the discs on the hub.. the offset of the disc is so high that it hits the brake disc backing plate.. so i remove my hub and remove the backing plate.. guess what, the brake disc hit the lower ball joint.
so i mounted the disc anyway.. kinda loosely!

Next I moounted the caliper.. it sits slightly crooked.. not straight up and down (the bracket on the spindle isnt oriented for the W211 caliper!) and the bolt holes in the stock mounting points on the spindle are too small for the bolts used on the W211 calipers.. and the bolts for the stock calipers are too skinny to catch any threads in the W211 bracket.. I just ended up pushing the skinny bolt through the hole to get it to sit there and not move around.. seemed to work.

The disc kinda centered itself when the caliper was mounted up.. there is about a 1/2 gap between the hub surface and the brake disc hub!

now it was time to mount the wheel.. with the way the caliper is slightly crooked it touches the rim very slightly on the top side of the caliper, the next issue is I cant get the wheel bolt to catch any threads in the hub (too much distance between the hub and wheel).
but funally enough I think the caliper would actually clear the 18" AMG W210 wheel.. too bad I cant mount it up to see.

So all in all it was kinda a waste of time.. but I do know for sure the W211 calipers will not bolt up to the w202 without significant mods to make them work. so if anyone wanted to know.. there you go!!

I will edit this thread in a sec.. just have to load up a few pics and attach them into my post.

what a bust! that sucks!

[SLAMMED_C]

My post is edited.. pics are up.

[Green Lantern]

slammed u always seem to amaze me with your work lol. make them fit now and i'll be happier.

[VIP_MBZ]

About how much of a custom bracket do you think it would take? Because really if we end up spending up to $200 on custom cnc machined brackets... it's still a steal.

-Ray

[MTI]

I'm curious about the trend to "stuff" the biggest calipers and rotors into any car . . . I take it these are not performance upgrades but are more along the lines of a cosmetic improvement.

You're increasing the rotational mass of the wheel . . . along with increasing unsprung weight . . . and then when all is said and done . . . the biggest component of braking is the tire contact patch, not pinching the rotors.

[jstrat85]

those brakes look fuckin sick!!!!! wow! i would paint them red! so they dont clear??

[Green Lantern]

the BBK from the 211 didnt fit so he just put them on for the hell of it, those stockies dont look like they have the clearance to run them anyway.

[jnolte]

i could of told you they wouldent fit!

however silver arrow r129 drilled rotors do fit in the rear, i got em they are cheap and look sweet

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by MTI
I'm curious about the trend to "stuff" the biggest calipers and rotors into any car . . . I take it these are not performance upgrades but are more along the lines of a cosmetic improvement.

It's a little of column A and a little of column B. Of course it looks great cosmetically, and adds to the "status" of the car. This might be a lot of the motivation behind this mod, but definitely there's performance to be had...



You're increasing the rotational mass of the wheel . . . along with increasing unsprung weight . . . and then when all is said and done . . . the biggest component of braking is the tire contact patch, not pinching the rotors.

It is the biggest component, but not the only component. I've got 235's in the front and 265's in the rear. Can't really get any bigger without modification of the body. Since it's my daily driver, I won't get too crazy on tire compound, but I am using Falken FK-452's, which have an AA rating for traction. That's premium by my book, and probably anyone else's. There's a distinct limit to how far you can reasonably upgrade your tires on a street-driven car.

So even still, with all that, going from the stock brakes to the C32 brakes, there was a gigantic difference in braking distance -- how could that possibly be? Easy: heat. With the stock brakes, the single piston pushing against the rotor reached the peak of its efficiency long before the tires did. The C32 setup, on the other hand, features 4 pistons which spread the pressure more evenly on a much larger brake pad. It's also very likely that the compound of the w203 C32 AMG brake pad is better than that of the standard w202 C230 Kompressor. Furthermore, the rotor onto which it grabs is larger and cross drilled, both promoting better heat dissipation.

The end result is better stopping power. If you don't believe me, take a ride in a w202 with the C32 setup. If that still doesn't convince you, come to LA, and I'll give you a downhill ride on Glendora Mountain Road, where not only will you notice the braking power, but also its resistance to fade when enduring repeated use, slowing a 3500 pound car every 8th of a mile from 100mph to 60mph before it enters a turn.

Now as for upgrading from the 4-piston to the 8-piston, there's probably better ways to spend your money, but there's no doubt that it would be an improvement nonetheless.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

Well put VIP.. its not all about tire contact.

with the W211 set up, I just wanted freakin huge brakes!..
the calipers can work with a custom bracket.. but in the end the discs dont mount up to the hub correctly.. they sit about 1/2" away from the hub surface!! so you would have to have adapters machined.. or custom hats made for a 2 piece rotor to change the offset of the disc hub.
all in all..too much work to get these brakes to mount up and work. Im going to have to look into something a lil bit smaller.. or maybe just go for the the C32 brake upgrade.

[VIP_MBZ]

I really can't complain about the C32 setup, given that it's fairly bolt-on. My only gripe is that I'd like to find a master cylinder / booster that provides more pressure. I'm looking to see if the C43's is any different and/or if it is a bolt-on affair on the C230k.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
I really can't complain about the C32 setup, given that it's fairly bolt-on. My only gripe is that I'd like to find a master cylinder / booster that provides more pressure. I'm looking to see if the C43's is any different and/or if it is a bolt-on affair on the C230k.

-Ray
well its direct bolt on unless you want to change the orientation of the calipers for the leading and trailing pistons right?
Im going to look into maybe a SLK55 brake kit now.. the 2006 and 2007 SLK55's have a 6piston caliper in front with 2 piece floating discs.. they look mad ill.
I still like the C32 kit though.. just not as big! I love the look of huge brakes.
Im not sure if the C43 has a different boster or not (compared to a C280 or C230). and as for direct bolt on.. I would say yes. I would think that the boosters from a W208, W210 and W202 are interchangable with one another.
the only way you would get more braking pressure is maybe to adapt a BAS (brake assist) booster and control module and see if that helps.. but I think you also need the abs pump too. dont even know if you could convert it to a BAS set up or not!

[OCKlasse]

I can tell you the booster is WAY bigger on my bro's 43 than on my 230.

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
well its direct bolt on unless you want to change the orientation of the calipers for the leading and trailing pistons right?
Im going to look into maybe a SLK55 brake kit now.. the 2006 and 2007 SLK55's have a 6piston caliper in front with 2 piece floating discs.. they look mad ill.
I still like the C32 kit though.. just not as big! I love the look of huge brakes.
Im not sure if the C43 has a different boster or not (compared to a C280 or C230). and as for direct bolt on.. I would say yes. I would think that the boosters from a W208, W210 and W202 are interchangable with one another.
the only way you would get more braking pressure is maybe to adapt a BAS (brake assist) booster and control module and see if that helps.. but I think you also need the abs pump too. dont even know if you could convert it to a BAS set up or not!

I have BAS on mine, is that a 2000-only thing, or...?

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
I have BAS on mine, is that a 2000-only thing, or...?

-Ray
do you mean you have BAS in your cluster?.. or you have BAS for sure (you have ESP instead of ASR dont you?)
I think the 2000 W202's have BAS cause they have ESP.. I still have crap ASR.. it was in 2000 they started with ESP.. I just missed out!!

well if the booster in the C43 is larger, then that answers the question.. there must be some more braking pressure available then!

[jnolte]

i have esp and i got a 1998

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
do you mean you have BAS in your cluster?.. or you have BAS for sure (you have ESP instead of ASR dont you?)
I think the 2000 W202's have BAS cause they have ESP.. I still have crap ASR.. it was in 2000 they started with ESP.. I just missed out!!

well if the booster in the C43 is larger, then that answers the question.. there must be some more braking pressure available then!

*shrug. There is an indicator on the dash for "BAS ESP" which the instruction manual details as the check light for both the brake-assist system and the elec. skid protection. The only reason I know is because it lit up before and I had to look up what it meant.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by jnolte
i have esp and i got a 1998
I think because you have a C43 you have ESP with BAS. could be wrong though.

as for VIP, I think you should have BAS then.. since you have ESP instead of ASR.

[ECTurboGSX]

From what I've read, W211 E55 front brakes won't even fit on a normal W211, let alone a 202. Supposedly the whole front hub is different.

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by ECTurboGSX
From what I've read, W211 E55 front brakes won't even fit on a normal W211, let alone a 202. Supposedly the whole front hub is different.

Ah, the plot thickens -- what if we get the whole hub...

-Ray