kompressor or clutch

[mykg4orce]

has anyone replaced the clutch on the supercharger? How does one tell if the supercharger itself hasn't been damaged?

I was quoted about $3000 for R&R on my supercharger, but now I am thinking that the dealership tried to overestimate the damage. The clutch is $700 compared to the $2500 for the supercharger.

I just want to be sure about what is damaged, the komp or the clutch.

[Proven Guilty]

the supercharger itself is made by eaton for mercedes. It's the same company that also produces the larger SCs for the old Ford Thunderbird SC and the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP.

There's a few guys on ebay that specialize in rebuilds of the eaton used in the W202s. THey're rebuilt to be stronger, and lightly ported/polished. I've seen them go for about $800, but you've still gotta buy the OEM supercharger clutch from mercedes, as its speicialized eltro-magnetic clutch that the ECU monitors and works alongside and the EDO bypass valve attached to the airbox.

I hope that helps, and its very DIY on this car if you've got the proper tools. Do a search for one of the board's members named SLAMMED_C and he's got a walk-through with pictures.

Good luck!

[mykg4orce]

ok reading up on SLAMMED's post gave some encouragement. I will investigate further tonight and try to figure it out. I was reading into the WIS ASRA manual and it seemed to be very complicated to remove the SC. Are there oil lines running to it? I imagine that its going to be a few bolts to take it off??

Also on a side note: When the belt came off the supercharger. I immediatley got the battery and CE light on, and if I give the car some gas it hesitates and the engine doesn't sound smooth at all. Can I drive the car a short distance in this condition? or you would not recommend it?

appreciate your help very much

[Proven Guilty]

i suppose it's driveable if the belt is off the supercharger, and nothing is turning. Itll just have no power, because it'll be like a C230 NA with low compression lol.

the SC itself is not fed by engine oil at all, so from what i recall, it's just a bolt-on with some wiring to it. i would NOT recommend driving with it off though.

the likely reason your car is running rough as it sits would be due to the Air to Fuel ratios the ECU is expecting with boost not being there, and your ECU with throw a check engine light if there's any problem with the clutch, supercharger, or bypass valve, or ratios.

[mykg4orce]

excellent info.

thank you very much.

[emann34]

Im replacing the supercharger myself. I purchased a rebuilt supercharger from this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Supercharger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQihZ 015QQitemZ250184851350QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

It already includes the cluth and it was all only $460 shipped. A 2 year part warranty is included. Clutch has two critical components, the bearings and the coil. The coil doesnt fail, its the bearings. Like all bearings after they wear there is excessive play, causing the pulley to wobble and stress the coil under load. On these rebuilt units, the coil is tested (it either works or it doesnt) and new bearings are put in.

This guy has been good to deal with. My clutch is making a metallic ticking noise that I dont like so I might as well replace the whole unit. My care has 75,000 miles.

Im tackling the job myself as it does not look complicated at all, its a bolt on application. I purchased all new pulleys (2 in the supercharger area and one in the serpentine belt area), 2 new belts, and the supercharger gaskets from oempartsdirect.com.

Ive been taking crap apart while the parts arrive and its pretty basic stuff. Hardes part is working around the small area.

[mykg4orce]

you are right!

I spend about 2 hours to tackle the job myself. I removed the air box, and hoses that blocked the view. I didn't remove the coolant hoses. The bolts holding the SC were surprisingly easy to remove. I barely had to use any torque.

Right now I am stuck because I cannot figure out how to remove the SC with the housing thats on the back of it. I was able to get one of the torx bolts off but the other one towards the bottom is very difficult to reach from the top of the car. I was going to try to get at it from the bottom.



On another note, I see that the bearing is completely shot, I was able to turn the supercharger and it turns very smoothly without any play.

What other pulleys did you replace and why? Can you send me links to the parts you bought?

I would appreciate this very much.

[xvvvz]

>>On another note, I see that the bearing is completely shot, I was able to turn the supercharger and it turns very smoothly without any play.<<

Won't it do that anyway because it doesn't engage until current is applied and thus engages the clutch? Sorry if I am misinterpreting your statement.

Keep us updated or your progress and any removal tips you can pass along!

[mykg4orce]

Ok here are some images of the belt still on the SC pulley (I took this shot before I knew what was wrong with the car)

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02230.JPG

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02231.JPG


http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02232.jpg

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02233.JPG

This shot taken yesterday, of the clutch cover. You can see that its all chewed out. I believe it fell to the bottom a while ago but I never noticed it not being there.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02285.JPG

Here is a shot of the SC, I had to remove the air box and hoses. You can see that the RAD hoses are still attached. I thought I could get the SC without draining the coolant, as you will see in the later images that I had to remove those hoses.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02286.JPG

Here is another close up, you can see that the rear inlet or outlet (i dont know the tech name) is being blocked by the AUX water pump.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02287.JPG

Shot of the pully, it looks pretty bad.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02288.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02289.JPG

I also noticed that the Valve cover gasket is leaking oil, it isn't as bad as it looks but I will have to replace it.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02290.JPG

A wide shot of the area, makes me sad, I thought I would never have to do this kind of surgery on this car. My old 190e is full scars from my attempts to keep it running.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02291.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02292.JPG

Sigh, coolant hoses off, I didn't really want to create more work myself. You will also notice that I had to remove the Fan to remove the SC. Son of Q#$#@.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02296.JPG

Here is the beast, I am surprised that such a small piece of equipment can make such a big difference.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02297.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02300.JPG

Close up of the pulley.




My next step is to try to remove the Pully and see the extent of the damage. I bought this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150178624628&rd=1) off of ebay yesterday. Considering this unit cost me less than the price of just the clutch ($700 new), I will use it as a temp fix and put the money together to buy a new one in a couple of months.

p.s. Whats the proper procedure for filling the cooling system back with coolant?

Hope these pictures will help someone.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02302.JPG

[xvvvz]

Thanks for sharing the information. Are the pictures not displaying for anyone else though?

[mykg4orce]

sry i had an extra / in the http:// for the IMG urls


they should work now

[mykg4orce]

some more pictures of the damage:




After i removed the Pulley
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02304.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02305.JPG

Loo closely and you see that the inner housing has actually bent into an eliptical shape.
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02306.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02310.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02312.JPG

The shaft looks okay.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02313.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02314.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02315.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02316.JPG

Another closeup.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02317.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02318.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02319.JPG

Video of the sound the SC makes when I turned it with a wrench

Video Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-_amLDCmEc)

[Proven Guilty]

dude, EXCELLENT pictures!!!!

so wait, is your W202 also a 2000 model? if not, what year? The part numbers from your SC and the ebay '00 match perfectly. It would be nice to know the superchargers from both years matched.

[mykg4orce]

Yes they are indeed the exact models. Mine is a 2000 C230 as well.

the first pic is from the SC from ebay and then the second is from mine.

http://i23.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c1/6b/9b0a_1.JPG


http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02312.JPG

[Proven Guilty]

ohh ok. i've got a '99, and the 95-99 models have a slightly different setup, weaker fuel preassure regulator and i believe slightly changed crank pulley.

[mykg4orce]

have you changed the crank pully? it seems like a tough job? Also the ASP pulleys seem very high priced? is it worth the money?

[Proven Guilty]

I've used the ASP pulleys, and they were worth the money. it raises to about 8.5lbs of boost, so i'd say a solid 20hp at the wheels. it's very safe upgrade, and for the 2000 its the easiest swap compared to the 97-99s.

[emann34]

Here are the pulleys and gaskets I ordered from oempartsdirect.com Note, you can also order a SC Clutch from them for $495, saving you $200 vs. your dealer quote:

1) Engine, Supercharger and components, Pulley, Pulley - 2.3 liter - 2.3 liter Item # 1192001470 $52.70 USD

2) Engine, Supercharger and components, Tension pulley, Tension pulley - 2.3 liter - 2.3 liter Item # 1112020119 $35.70 USD

3) Engine, Supercharger and components, Upper housing, Gasket, Gasket - 2.3 liter - 2.3 liter Item # 1110980080 $2.98 USD

4) Engine, Supercharger and components, Intake pipe, Gasket, Gasket - 2.3 liter - 2.3 liter
Item # 1110980180 $4.46 USD

#1 is the tensioner pulley at the supercharger, which you used to loosen the belt. It sits below the idler pulley.
#2 is the idler pulley and its sits to the right of the SC cluth/pulley.
#3 and #4 are the gaskets you need for the SC replacement.

I am also replacing the SC belt, serpetine drive belt, drive belt tensioner pulley, and drive belt tensioner shock. Theselast few items are on the right side but since you have everything off it makes sense to replace them all. These I ordered from autohausaz.com

Why replace? You have the area wide open and the bearings on all pulleys wear, just like the SC clutch bearings. Last thing you want is a loose bearing on a $50 pulley to F up your SC clutch.

Props on the pictures, Im basically at the point before you removed the coolant hoses. Since Im still waiting for my SC Im trying to figure out a way around this. Oh well, if I have too Ill flush and fill while Im at it.

[emann34]

Here are the part #s at autohaus.com for the SC Belth, drive belt, drive belt tensioner pulley, and drive belt tensioner shock:


(1112000070) Accessory Belt Tensioner Pulley/Roller; At Belt Tensioner

(5427PO) Accessory Belt Tensioner Shock

(6PK1330) Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; Kompressor

(6PK1872) Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; Accessory Belt

Note that the SC tensioner pulley and the Drive Belt Tensioner pulley look the same, however, the SC Tensioner Pulley is slightly smaller.

[mykg4orce]

WOW! thanks for the the part numbers and recommendations. I did order the SC belt from autohausaz already. I will go back and order the other stuff as well!

Appreciate your help. I will post more pics of my progress.

[mykg4orce]

isnt the
(1112000070) Accessory Belt Tensioner Pulley/Roller; At Belt Tensioner


same as #2?

I'm confused about how many pulleys there are. Are there 3? or two?

So is Number 5 in this picture the same as Number 15 in the next picture??

http://www.trademotion.com/schematics/5/5814051.gif


http://www.trademotion.com/schematics/5/5814128.gif

Because if they are the same, they are listed at different prices.

[emann34]

In brief, there are 3 pulleys total. There are 2 pulleys on the SC side, which is 15 and 17 on the SC components diagram (bottom)

There is 1 pulley on the main accessory belt side, which is 5 on the accessory belt components diagram (top) (1112000070).

1112000070 from autohaus.com is the accessory belt pulley and its made by Febi. autohaus.com does not carry the pulleys at the SC for some reason.


That is why I ordered the SC pulleys (2) from oempartsdirect.com, The 2 pulleys at the SC are 1112020119 ($50, #15 on the bottom diagram) and 1192001470 ($35, #17 on the bottom diagram). Dont forget the two gaskets (#4 and #6 on bottom diagram).


5 on the top diagram and 15 on the bottom diagram only look the same, however, they are different. 15 at the SC is slightly smaller than 5. I already have both in hand so I can verify that 15 is in fact smaller so the parts are not interchangeable.

If you look at the very first picture that you posted here (page 1 of this post), you can see the SC clutch on the left and #17 on the right. #15 sits below these two.

#5 goes on the right side, at the accessory belt tensioner. You will also see the tensioner shock (#7 on the top diagram) where # 5 is located.

[mykg4orce]

okay this clears it up for me! I ordered the parts almost exactly like you did except I ordered the pulley covers too, In case I break any of them in the removal process.

[emann34]

To add to the write-up, there is a way to remove the supercharger without disconnecting the aux. pump hose and the upper radiotor hose. Once you undo the bolts holding the supercharger the bracket, remove two small bolts that braces the aux. pump to the chassis. Next, disconnect the cable underneath the aux. pump (just pull out). You can now move the aux. pump up and out of the way along with the hose that connects to the water pump.

Next move the supercharger sideways to access the bottom bolts of the supercharger inlet and remove those. Flip the supercharger around and remove the upper bolts to the rear inlet. You can now remove the rear inlet and the supercharger, pulling the supercharger out from underneath the upper radiotor hose.

My total install time, taking it nice and easy, was 6 hours. The toughest part was getting the SC out without disconnecting the cooling hoses. Everything else was easy, including the pulleys and the belts.

[mykg4orce]

Excellent! Im glad you're met with success. I agree that toughest part was to get the SC out. I am still waiting on my parts, I have a UPS shipment tomorrow(AAZ order #1), then looks like oempartsdirect parts are to follow and finally AAZ order #2 to arrive within this week. Hopefully.

How does the beast run and sound?

[xvvvz]

Glad to hear you had success. Thanks for sharing the information.

So at 6 hrs the swap out is a doable one day job for a first-timer? That was just swapping out the SC with a clutch already attached and changing the tensioner plus two pulleys on the SC side of the engine. Then you changed out the main accessory belt and tensioner, right?

I am right that you both have 2000 models and the tensioner for the main serpentine has the shock? My 99 230K did not have the shock on the main belt side. Haven't looked closely at the tensioner for the SC but I can't remember seeing a shock over there.

[mykg4orce]

I believe 6hrs is a very safe duration. It took me about 3-4 hours to remove the SC, first time. But I believe the R&R will be faster on the SC but changing the pulleys and the belts will probably take me longer as I would be extra careful in the process. I will post pictures of everything I do in a few days.

[emann34]

Car sounds good. I dont have that metallic clicking noise after the SC clutch engages anymore. The car feels a lot smoother during hard acceleration and idling. Best of all, there is absulutely no hesitation what so ever after the SC kicks in.

The old SC had play in the pulley bearings and in the SC bearings as well. When I turned the clutch I could hear a little grinding as opposed to all air from the new SC when I turned that one. Additinally, there were small metal particles inside the old SC. I didnt check the oil on the old one but Im sure it needed changing.

All in all Im glad I didnt wait until my SC was toast. With all new pulleys and belts, other than the waterpump, I should have a trouble free front end for a while. I did notice there is a little play (I mean a little) in the fan clutch. The fan clutch along with a tranny oil change should allow me to reach 150,000 miles pretty easily. I now have 75,000 and this is what I have done or will perform within the next few weeks:

New spark plugs
Oil Change
Air Filter
Cabin Filter
Supercharger w/ new gaskets
3 pulleys
2 belts
Fan Clutch (next week)
tensioner shock
steering shock
fuel filter
headlight bulbs (Osram Silverstar)
Foglight bulbs (Hella Optilux Xenon yellows)
Deck (Kenwood X689)
Tranny Oil/Gasket/Filter (next week)

I havent even owned it for 2 months. I like it much more than the 98 I gave my dad when I purchased this one.

[mykg4orce]

Here is a shot of the two old pulleys from the supercharger side.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02390.JPG

Close up of the larger tension pulley for the other accessories like power steering and A/C.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02391.JPG

Close up of the rider pulley. R&R on the pulleys was easier than I thought, removed the cover with a flat head driver and used a star bit to remove the pulley.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02396.JPG

Close up of the tension pulley, after removing the cover, a hex nut was revealed which I loosened with a deep socket.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02398.JPG

Wider shot.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02399.JPG

Here is the new pulley installed.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02400.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02401.JPG

Here are both new pulleys installed. Note, the tension pulley had noticeable play in it. It was a good idea to replace it.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02402.JPG

Similar procedure to get the Drive Belt tension pulley off removed the plastic cover and loosened the hex nut.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02403.JPG

Wider shot, with the pulley removed, and also notice that the shock has also been disconnected from the top.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02404.JPG

New shock installed.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02405.JPG

New pulley installed with new belt.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02406.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02407.JPG

Here is the supercharger that I bought from eBay. $440 Shipped.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02408.JPG

I took me about 2 hours to figure out how to remove the SC with the inlet pipe attached. It only took 2 minutes to put it back in place.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02409.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02410.JPG

Here is the outlet installed. I also installed a new gasket here.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02411.JPG

The air box back in place. Im almost done!!!!!!

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02412.JPG

Getting closer!!

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02413.JPG

Shot of the new (used) SC, and the new tension and rider pulleys.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02414.JPG

Shot of new belt installed. Note of caution. I actually installed the belt wrong the first time, and when I started the car it shredded to pieces. I bought a replacement belt with those groves built into it.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02415.JPG
http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/DSC02416.JPG


This entire project could not have been possible without the help of the people who replied to my questions. This was a relatively involved job, but looking back at it, it was relatively easy. The only pain I have is in my back from bending over the car.

Special thanks to emann34 for the parts list and other guidance.


Parts List, and other expenses.

http://www.myksp.com/temp/benz_imgs/costs.jpg


Just a note that the original MB quote was $3200 for new supercharger.

I have also sold my damaged SC for $250 on ebay.

Total time invested to install everything was about 6.5 hours. I started working on it at around 1200 am and finished at about 530 in the morning.

Filling the coolant back up was a breeze, unlike my 190e 2.6 where you have to take of a head bolt to let off air.

Road test was very pleasing. The car is so quite now that at the first stop light I thought the engine had turned off, I couldn't feel the slightest vibration.

The SC that I bought from ebay apparently came from a car with 50K miles on it. It seemed relatively clean and in good shape compared to mine.

There was no hesitation in acceleration. Although I promised the car that I would take it easy on the gas pedal from now on.

Hope this helps someone...

Again appreciate the help from everyone very much, I felt like I wasn't doing this on my own and that was probably the reason for everything turning out this well.

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by emann34
Im replacing the supercharger myself. I purchased a rebuilt supercharger from this guy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Supercharger_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQihZ 015QQitemZ250184851350QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

It already includes the cluth and it was all only $460 shipped. A 2 year part warranty is included. Clutch has two critical components, the bearings and the coil. The coil doesnt fail, its the bearings. Like all bearings after they wear there is excessive play, causing the pulley to wobble and stress the coil under load. On these rebuilt units, the coil is tested (it either works or it doesnt) and new bearings are put in.

This guy has been good to deal with. My clutch is making a metallic ticking noise that I dont like so I might as well replace the whole unit. My care has 75,000 miles.

Im tackling the job myself as it does not look complicated at all, its a bolt on application. I purchased all new pulleys (2 in the supercharger area and one in the serpentine belt area), 2 new belts, and the supercharger gaskets from oempartsdirect.com.

Ive been taking crap apart while the parts arrive and its pretty basic stuff. Hardes part is working around the small area. If i were to replace my S/C with with this rebuilt one n the link u gave wuld i see and major benfit? Any HP gain? Or would i have to get a bigger better S/C to get that? Thanks.

[mykg4orce]

Well I am assuming that a rebuilt SC will not be as "good" as a brand new one. I too searched the net to find an aftermarket SC. But in the end what mattered more was the time, which I didn't have to research and take a chance in installing an after market product that was potentially untested on my car.

I found no articles online about after market SC swaps. I'm just glad its all over now.

Regarding HP: I didn't notice a considerable difference. I guess the only way would to have the car dyno tested.