97 C 280 Leaking oil

[kaiserh]

My 1997 C280 has been leaking oil since last oil change, 4k miles ago, some days it won't leak at all,the guy who changed my oil, told me I 'll need to replace "oil pan gasket" next time I change oil,he only saw it after he changed the oil. is it something
can be done easily ? I know the part is only $30.Labor is like $150. one of my friend has offer to do it but his experience is with Toyota only . is worth to have a friend do it or should go to a pro?

thanks

Also I am not sure if transmission oil has ever been changed,my car is hitting 82k.

any advice on this ?

[bikeman311]

oil pan gasket is oil pan gasket. let your buddy do it.

as far as the transmission fluid goes mine is original at 140000 miles without problems (knock on wood) but I may be the ONLY w202 owner where that is the case. I'd say change it.

[1995c280]

on your engine (M104) you need to use a engine hoist to raise the engine slightly when the car is in the air to remove the oil pan completely (it can be a tight fit).

i would change the oil in your tranny now but don't wait any longer. your almost at that point of no return.

Jason

[kaiserh]

thanks for the reply

when I took my car to a shop for gear not shifting,it turned out to be a turbine sensor malfunction,when they replaced it and asked the guy to put in the oil pan gasket,at first he wanted to charge me $450.after fixing the sensor,he told me oil pan gasket is not the one that is leaking.its the head gasket,leaking badly and dripping on to oil pan gasket.he wanted 1425 to fixed the head gasket,
I have noticed that oil is leaking right up front now,right under where oil goes in.
this week I will be going for a second opinion to another independent MB auto mechanic,who works for MB Star in san diego.He said he will check it out for free.
I know someone who know him.

I changed tranny fluid @ 82k,also changed oil/filter and all that.
but the leaking is in a new place,it never leaked from there before,normally it was closer to right front tire,now it up front.

here is my other thread
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14735

[kaiserh]

MB star looked at it ,and said it could be the Engine front cover or the head gasket.
he also said I should not worry about it that much as long as I check the oil and the temp on a regular basis.and if I don't mind leaking oil under the car

he also told if I want to start repairing ,then I should start with Engine front cover,its cheaper and with a little luck,it could stop the leaking.he also quoted $700 for the head gasket.

I was also asked if I want to keep the car for a long time,then I should get the Valve guide fixed,it is a very expensive job.
I am going to get the engine front cover fixed in a couple of weeks,car is running fine,and leaks here and there.

[kaiserh]

went to a different mechanic,I was told head gasket is fine,it is leaking from front engine cover and valve cover gasket,got it fixed
under $250.and the leaking is gone,car is running fine.I guess it all depends who you go to.

[junklar]

So, the mechanic only changed the valve cover gasket and the leaking stopped?

[griplimited]

hmm. just the valve cover? if it was leaking from there, you would of seen smoke long ago from your engine compartment. i say get a 2nd opinion.

[kaiserh]

Originally posted by junklar
So, the mechanic only changed the valve cover gasket and the leaking stopped?

Also the front cover was fixed,oil pan gasket and the head gasket are fine,only leaking I had was pure oil,no coolant mix or anything else.

[kaiserh]

Originally posted by griplimited
hmm. just the valve cover? if it was leaking from there, you would of seen smoke long ago from your engine compartment. i say get a 2nd opinion.

this was 4th opinion.they replaced the V/C
gasket because it was needed to replace.
leaking was from front cover of the engine

[OzC36]

I think what kaiserh, meant to say was the gasket(s) of the front cover over the timing chain.

This was one of the two possibilities that was diagnosed by MB Star (the other being the head gasket). These two items are the cause of the most oil leaks (let's hazard a guess at 95%) on the M104 engine.

Other incidental gaskets get changed along the way (including the valve cover) in getting access to the front cover, as they are disturbed and so need to be renewed.

Well done kaiserh. Thanks for sharing your problem and the fix!

[griplimited]

ic, glad to hear all is taken care of? I guess a gasket kit would be nice just to clear it all out of the way rather than changing til you find the source.

[kaiserh]

well I think the problem is not over yet,it leaked again, and it looked the same like it was before,but very little oil,I took the car back to MB star,they cleaned, sprayed the area,and told me it to keep an eye on,if it leaks again,It could be the gasket this time,but so far it hasn't leaked yet.I am keeping my fingers crossed.but at the same time I have not been driving the benz a lot latley,I took it out on the highway for about 3 times 30 mile rides,no leaks so far.and added a quart of mobile 1,it was low.

[OzC36]

kaiserh,

Damn!

Only experienced techs should attempt the forward cover gasket seal. See below:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M104HeadGasket

And also related:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M103TimingCoverReseal

[rman]

i had a slight leak right below the oil filter housing. cost me $11 to fix it...

it was the oil pressure port, i had to get an updated gasket, cap and bolt.

[kaiserh]

Originally posted by OzC36
kaiserh,

Damn!

Only experienced techs should attempt the forward cover gasket seal. See below:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M104HeadGasket

And also related:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/M103TimingCoverReseal

thanks for the links,
I go back to work tomorrow and I will keep an eye on,I know where the oil comes from.
My mechanic is a master mechanic and also the co=owner of the shop,he has over 18 years of experience,so I am not sure if I want to go somewhere else.I like his attitude.

I'll update soon.

I took the pic from the link you provided
and I know this is not a 104 but I think the yellow circle is where I saw oil.



http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9063/leakoz5.jpg

[OzC36]

Yes, that is a pic of the M103 engine. However, it is very similar to the M104 engine with regards to the front cover design and seal repair.

The area that you indicated that the oil is leaking from (chain tensioner area) is absolute classic M104 engine oil leak. It is very difficult to determine whether the leak comes from the forward R side of the engine head or from the front cover seal.

Many repair centres recommend that you repair both items (head gasket and front cover seal) any time there is a leak in this area so that the job only has to be done once.

[kaiserh]

I just checked under the hood and it is leaking from above the circle mark,I called the guy at MB Star,he said it is the head gasket.it will cost me 1k, he asked me if it was burning oil,its not,and the car is not overheating.he also mentioned something about Valve guide.he advised me to drive the car around and to see if it burns gas.I only put 1 qt of oil in last 2k miles.
what should I do? go to a different mechanic ? or get the headgasket done.or should I just drive around for anothe 1k mile to see what happens.

thanks

[OzC36]

It seems like a pretty good call in that if the head has to come off to replace the head gasket...then any other work that should be done on the head should be done at that time.

If you find that the motor is blowing blue smoke, or using oil (that is not just solely attributable to the head gasket leak), it would be a good time to replace the valve guides.

Get your mechanic to quote on the cost of the extra work and get him assess your vehicle as to whether it needs the extra work.

Now for the cruncher!

Oil is CHEAP! You can drive your car forever with a small oil leak from the front cover or head gasket...providing that you check the engine oil level and replenish regularly. Also, you will have to put up with oil stains on your regular parking spot.

Apart from that who gives a damn!

[harryt]

I say, IF you plan on keeping this car long term...

Get it ALL done. I had my headgasket done, even though the leak was elsewhere... as my mechanic found out later.
But reguardless.. at least it's done and I won't have to worry about it for awhile now for a long time. My car hasn't EVER leaked oil on my garage floor anymore.

Like I said.. long term it's worth it.. short term it might not be.

[kaiserh]

I've only had the car for under 2 years (almost),I like it and like keep it as long as I can,I haven't even paid half of it yet.
I plan to keep it for a few more years,I only have 84k on it.drive about 5k a year.

I understand Valve guide replacing is around 4k ? Is it necessary to changing it ?

My mechanic says everything else looks good.I will need brakes soon,previous owner owned from 2003 to 2006,had 6k worth of work done,I have all the reciepts.

[OzC36]

With such a low mileage engine, I would think it to be impossible for the valve guides to be worn. Unless of course the engine has been run on the wrong type of engine oil or completely starved of oil at some time in its' life.

Try this test. Select second gear and drive down a longish hill at idle. This will suck oil past the valve-guides into the combustion chambers if they are bad. At the bottom of the hill, select Drive. Then give the gas a bootful and hold for a few seconds at least. Have a friend drive behind you to observe.

The amount of "blue" smoke from the exhaust indicates any wear on the valve guides. Don't worry about black smoke (unburnt fuel).

My bet is that your valve-guides are perfect.

[kaiserh]

Mechanic only mentioned the Valve guide,if I want to keep the car for a long time,he never told me there is an issue with it Car runs perfect.
The current leak is very small, smaller than what I had before I got it fixed,judging from the amount of oil on the pavement. some
days there is no oil on the pavement,some days drop or two.

I am thinking ,drive around like this for atleast another 1k miles
and check the oil every day and see how it goes.I will call him later today and ask him again why he mentioned the valve guide.
just be on the safe side.

[kaiserh]

I did call him the other day and he said he reason he mentioned the valve guide,if he was going to do the head gasket job,then I should get that done too,so I don't pay labor twice.

he also asked me to bring the car to the shop again,he wants to double check the job he did,he did not want charge me for something I don't need.which is very cool, I took the car back to him today. and I will find out tomorrow.

[OzC36]

Your mechanic sounds experienced and also sounds like a pretty good dude.

If he needs to do more work on the head gasket or timing cover, make sure you give him the "Wikka" links above. They contain some good and very useful information from other very good technicians.

[kaiserh]

He called me earlier today to inform me that there is a leak from the newly installed gasket,and he will replace it,it is part of their warranty. He will call me when it is ready.

[kaiserh]

I picked up the car,he re-did the job,its not leaking anymore and I will keep an eye on for a while.he not charged for it.

On the way back from the shop and small rock from the highway,chipped my front windshield,its about half an inch and round.
I called my insurance,they think this can be repaired and they will send a repair company to my work to fix it,no charge.

things keep happening to me.,