More C43 transmission trouble

[mis-u-jerr]

Hey guys,
I need some group expertise here...
Yesterday my 1999 C43 (722.631) went into limp home mode. I "rebooted" (turned car off/on) it was OK for a bit, then it started surging & searching for gears and the CEL went on. Got it home. Took it in to an indy shop today, the guy said that the ATF was a little low, topped that off and read the codes. Nothing definitive so he wasn't sure what to do. There were a bunch of codes that related to limp home mode, but the significant ones were:


116 - Engine starts with a delay
Shift linkage adjusted incorrectly
Adjust shift linkage
Plunger of starter lock out is stuck Replace electrical conductor plate

151 - selected gear not attained ATF oil level
Shift pressure regulating solenoid valve
Command or regulating, shift control valve

He wrote:
could be a number of things: MAF, transmission conducting plate, or needs a transmission overhaul.

So basically he said that he didn't know what it was. Since I do want to get this fixed with a minimum of pain, I figure that I either have to go to a MB only shop (he does Porsches, BMW, MB) or go to a high volume stealership (i.e. Smythe) that might have seen this before. I really don't have any confidence that a stealership would do a better job, and like this guy might just start replacing random stuff to see if it fixes the problem, on my dime of course (do techs even troubleshoot any more??)

So I guess that I am just looking for suggestion/other options to get this fixed without chasing a bunch of very expensive wild geese. And with the thing only being worth $10K now, is it even worth spending $6K on a new transmission (if it comes to that?)
Thanks for your help.

[JRE320]

Take it to a MB specialist and they would tell you what's wrong with it. From there you can decide what you want to do it.
Make sure you don't take the car to Topline in Burlingame coz they do know how play the guessing game. You know what I mean. There's a MB specialist called Mercedes Only in Fremont.
They're very knowledgeable in MB alone and very reasonable.
They'll even call you first and will advise what parts need to replace and even give you the price. Good luck.. ;)

[mis-u-jerr]

Hey thanks for the tip JRE!

[timmyj51]

Is that one of those crappy five speed trannys? This MB is
FULL of complaints about them. Thank my stars I've got the
reliable old four speed.

[mis-u-jerr]

I posted this on another thread and thought that it might be more appropriate here...

I found a place in Burlingame (no, not Topline :) that works on MB transmissions so I am going to give it a shot. I'll report back with findings.
Oh, the place is Peter Schmidt (sp?) Transmission. Recommended by my brother's neighbor's son (how 'bout that connection??) that works on MB's.

[jnolte]

dropping the pan can tell you alot, you gotta be religious about that fluid change

[mis-u-jerr]

Yeah, he actually recommends changing every 30K! But he also said that if you have never changed, don't start at say 100K. He has seen all kinds of problems start up after the gunk has been cleaned out. That is apparently the only thing keeping things together :p

[JRE320]

Originally posted by mis-u-jerr
I posted this on another thread and thought that it might be more appropriate here...

I found a place in Burlingame (no, not Topline :) that works on MB transmissions so I am going to give it a shot. I'll report back with findings.
Oh, the place is Peter Schmidt (sp?) Transmission. Recommended by my brother's neighbor's son (how 'bout that connection??) that works on MB's.

I heard about Peter Schmidt a long time ago when I still own a 2.3 16V. They been around. ;)

[timmyj51]

Originally posted by mis-u-jerr
Yeah, he actually recommends changing every 30K! But he also said that if you have never changed, don't start at say 100K. He has seen all kinds of problems start up after the gunk has been cleaned out. That is apparently the only thing keeping things together :p




Can't believe a mechanic'll tell anyone not to bother changing their
tranny fluid after 100K! I'd change it, and I doubt anything'll
get worse.

[xvvvz]

>> if you have never changed, don't start at say 100K. <<

Are you sure he wasn't talking about flushing the fluid? I have heard this about flushing the fluid but not about just changing the fluid.

[benztec]

check for fluid in your tranny control module. passenger side floor up front. these transmissions are more notorious for the condutor plate leaking than anything else. most indy shops know this and sell a trans and just fix a small problem. the fluid wicks up the wiring from the trans connector back to the module. all sorts of codes are the result.

[xvvvz]

The replacement connector benztec is talking about is A 203 540 02 53 and should run you less than $20. You might also consider putting the MB magnet into your tranny fluid pan. The part number for that is A 169 371 00 03.

I have posted in another post about this potential problem along with another potential fluid wicking issue at the camshaft sensor. If you search, you should find it. It had links to good tutorials on how to replace the parts. I will be doing the tranny one myself as soon as the parts come in and I have some time (the MB magnet had to be ordered).

[mis-u-jerr]

Thanks for all the advice guys! Sorry, yeah, I was talking about flushing, not just changing. Said he has seen all kinds of slippage & stuff after the gunk is flushed out.

Had another disconcerting thing happen on the way over. It "freewheeled" a couple times, basically spinning like it wasn't in gear. Then it came back to it's senses...

Yeah, the first thing he did was check the control module, said it was dry.
So the searching & surging, not finding first and fifth, they thought was a valve body issue. They are going to replace a couple of those. But if the freewheel is bad, might as well go for a rebuild. So it looks like I am hooked into these guys if I have to do a rebuild, because I will already be into them for a grand from the valve bodies...

Thanks everyone, I will keep you apprised of the sitch...

[mis-u-jerr]

I'm FN screwed... They dropped the pan & saw chunks... their guess is the freewheel. Which is kinda weird because I think that is what went when I took it in under warranty at 40K... Arg... Looking at $4K now... Almost 1/2 of what the car is worth!

[JRE320]

Sorry to hear that. My E320 cost me $5,000 with Topline that's why I don't recommend them. It actually cost like $3500.
:(

[benztec]

no, not the connector. that is only part of the fix. the real problem is the conductor plate inside the tranny on top of the valve body. it's around $200. after replacing you need to pull out your module and separate it and clean all the fluid off of the board and hope for the best. if codes remain than a module will be needed. best bet is pay for an hour's diag at a dealer so you know the real cause. check the module first for fluid.

[mis-u-jerr]

OK, so I gave them the go-ahead to do it. We worked on the price a little and they gave me the price of what they claim is their wholesale price for a re-be trans - $2600. But with labor, tax, fluids, still comes out to about $3600.
Afterwards, I thought, wait - I am NOT getting a whole new rebuilt, they are rebuilding mine. Shouldn't they just charge me for parts used?? Which I am guessing is way less than $2600...
just a wonderin'...

[Polestar]

Paying a repair bill that's 40% the value of the car might sound crazy to some, but our 202's are worth it. Worth it in terms of the quality of car we get to drive. I test drive new cars frequently-just to see what's out there-and they never come close to the driving experience I have in my C280 Sport.
Good call and good luck.
BTW-when I think of transmission replacement I think of ADSITCO.COM.
They provide a fully rebuilt tranny for my car for 2600 with core deposit.

A loving tribute to the W202 HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYSpIpO0_44&feature=related)
Be sure and notice the stretched W202

[mis-u-jerr]

Yeah, I figured if I didn't what then? I have a reeeally big paperweight and $4K. What do I do with that, buy a used Hyundai?? :rolleyes:
So I bit the bullet & did it. Was just thinking about after the trans is re-be'd, what else can go wrong... But after all the warranty work, it hasn't been that bad for the last 60K miles, so I decided to go for it.

Here is some additional info that I also posted to MBworld...

From the "C43 Transmission issues, possible cause” thread:
http://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219239

there were two places mentioned, I called both. The first comments are from the OP (Kropf), and then mine:

Phoenix Remanufactured Transmissions
http://www.phoenixhardparts.com/
(Busy outfit sells on eBay also. Member of BBB with lots of complaints, but all 'resolved'. Up to 4 year warranty parts/labor/shipping.)

1-800-399-5540
1-623-936-1500

My quote for a 722.631 was:
$1495
$295 torque converter
$300 shipping (both ways)
$750 core charge.
(Fluid would be extra)

$2840 - $750 = $2090

However, it would be 7-10 biz days to build, then ship out, so looking at two – three weeks minimum for downtime. Also, he runs though an eBay shop and "THE AUCTION IS ENDING, YOU HAVE TO BUY NOOOOOWWW" (emphasis added by me, but that is how it felt.)

The other place mentioned was
Silver Star Transmission
http://silverstartransmission.com/index.htm
in Oklahoma I think.
OP's comments:

(Smaller outfit, BBB accredited with no complaints, only 1 yr warranty. "All 722.6 trans include updated (new angle) gear sets and update valve body" "OEM parts" "#1 remanufacturer of M-B trans.")

My quote for a 722.631 was:
$2295 including torque converter AND fluid
$500 core charge.
About $260 shipping (one way, they pay the other way)
2295+260 = $3055

$3055 - $500 = $2795

If I put my order in last Friday, they would possibly get it done Tues, ship out 3-5 days, maybe get it by Fri/Monday

So even with no tax on parts (coming from OK) +$700 labor (local guy's quote) that is only $100 less that doing it locally.

So my totals are looking like this:
re-be my trans:
$2575
Nine qts at $11 ea (9 seems like a lot??)
$99
Total parts = $2674
tax = $220.61
labor = $700

Total = 3594.61

Oh, the place is:
MZF Transmission service, also known as Peter Schmid

http://peterschmid.com/
I'll let you know how close they stay to that estimate.

So just adding in more data for those in need, hope that this helps.

[Polestar]

Great Info-Thanks.

9 quarts seems right.
Your C43 has a different 722 transmission. How different, I don't know, however my '99 C280 uses the 722.606. Without emptying out the torque converter I've taken 8 qts. BTW, $11/qt seems like a good price-at least the last time I priced tranny fluid.

[allirroz]

Originally posted by Polestar
Great Info-Thanks.

9 quarts seems right.
Your C43 has a different 722 transmission. How different, I don't know, however my '99 C280 uses the 722.606. Without emptying out the torque converter I've taken 8 qts. BTW, $11/qt seems like a good price-at least the last time I priced tranny fluid.

Your tranny took in 8 quarts without draining the torque converter?

I just had mine done that included the draining of the torque converter and it took 7.3 quarts to refill . Book( Owners manual) says that , total consumption is 8.5 quarts which I assume includes the trans oil cooler -about a quart or so of which I was unable to drain.

EDIT: this is also on a 722.6 - 99 c280

[Polestar]

I'm relying on the word of a mechanic-and one I don't usually use-but I supplied him 8 liters of fluid and he said he used every drop?
If he did, it's probably over filled

[allirroz]

Originally posted by Polestar
I'm relying on the word of a mechanic-and one I don't usually use-but I supplied him 8 liters of fluid and he said he used every drop?
If he did, it's probably over filled


no shit sherlock!

[mis-u-jerr]

Sorry for another long post, just trying to get as much info out there as possible.

Got the car back Friday, seems OK, have 1st & 5th back :)
The culprit appears to be a washer on the output shaft broke & broke free. That is probably the chunks they saw in the pan. There was potential for pieces everywhere so I told them to go ahead with the rebuild.
The transmission is so complex; I guess I can't expect that everything would be perf (can I??) But seems OK so far AND under budget :eek: $3577 out the door. The girl who rung me up said wow you got a great deal!

I have some seemingly unrelated problems though... Engine is not running great. Not all the time but once in a while it runs really rough for about 10 sec like it is missing or something (no codes though.) I spoke again with the mechanic that referred me to MZF; he said that they have to tilt the engine at such an angle to get the trans out that sometimes a vacuum hose pops off or something. However, that wouldn't be intermittent though, it would run like crap all the time.

Also, seemingly reeeally unrelated, when I push down on the brake pedal, there is initial resistance when first pressed then it is OK. Bent some linkage putting it back in?? I have no idea if one is even physically close to another.

Another weird thing is the oil light has come on about three times, just when I am going straight down the road. Oil level is OK though, right in the middle.

I’ll drive it around the rest of the weekend and see if it fixes itself :rolleyes: and I will let y'all know...
Thanks.

[SLCPUNK]

Originally posted by timmyj51
Can't believe a mechanic'll tell anyone not to bother changing their
tranny fluid after 100K! I'd change it, and I doubt anything'll
get worse.

Changing it is fine, having it "flushed" (ie, pressurized) could be bad. Often times all the gunk is holding the failing clutch packs together.

[Polestar]

Originally posted by SLCPUNK
Changing it is fine, having it "flushed" (ie, pressurized) could be bad. Often times all the gunk is holding the failing clutch packs together.



The claim I've heard by mechanics who do not recommend tranny change after high miles: the new fluid will disolve gunk build-up which, in an older tranny, keeps it working.
In my experience, 1 in 5 mechanic's advised me against fluid change after 100K mi.
Personally, I want it changed. I changed mine immediately after purchase @ 77K mi., and have done so twice since; current mi, 107K

[mis-u-jerr]

OK, one more post on this before I fade back into lurkerdom...
I did take it back in because it was running like crap. Solution - the air cleaner wasn't on all the way! He just banged it down some and it went to running smooth right away. No problems since!
:D
Thanks everyone for your help & advice!
Take care, Greg.