Custom clutch + FW

[Pagz]

Performance section is really ....REALLY dead these days:p

Anyways heres what im upto at the mo...

The stock dual mass clutch didnt appear to handle the increase in hp to well,apart from the slippage at ft...the spring mech inside the DM has lost its centre point since i last checked it back in the day i last removed the transmission.ie the holes dont line up and need to be forced to,so its not slack,just showing signs of weakening!.

After reading a bit on DM FW on turbo desiel trucks,cars coming apart with increased torque/hp we decided we would make a custom single mass item with an aftermarket pressure plate and disk to help keep it all together...when it finally goes together^^.

There isnt to many after market clutches out there for the MB,Spec was the only one i could find,they recommended a stage 3+ for the HP i run and the best drivability(better than stage3).
I ordered the clutch and told the company it would need to have a sprung centre as i planned to make a single mass FW to replace the DM.

they confirmed it was sprung...and sent me this =)
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_403_full.jpg

So after a small battle they told me to send it back to spec,and they would make a custom disk with sprung centre and send it back to me asap!...so i played patient,as they were doing it at there cost........36 days later i email spec and find out they have no idea what happened to my disk,as the company i went through didnt fill out the correct paperwork lol...damn why did i play patient.

The guys at spec found the disk and had it made then shipped to me within the week!,frickn yay=)
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_404_full.jpg?090813-


So iv drawn up the FW ready to be made,its going to be a combo alloy 7075 with a steel face,which should wiegh approx 25% lighter than stock.
will get some picks up as we build it =)


Ross,price is on the way,im due there this morning,they were ment to give me it before the end of last week!!.

Cheers all,
Paul

[Logic]

i know this is going to be a stupid question, but what does the springs do compaired to the one with out them? do the springs do something when it spins?

[SLAMMED_C]

NICE!! must have cost a lil bit! but worth every penny as long as no fitment issues or troubles once installed.. *fingers crossed*

gotta get that beast running right man.

[Nelson Lago]

wow man you got lucky (in a way) i didn't anyone made an aftermarket clutch.

Logic the springs he's talking about are on the clutch, thay absorb some of the torque on engagement so theirs no chatter, making it a smother shift, at least i think that's the springs 23k is referring too

[c280nz]

yea boi!
bout time sum1 posted somethin in here, i hang in mercedes shop forum performance paddock now, as theres like 4 or 5 of us on there with turbo m104s now, common as :rolleyes:

man im stocked for u that they actually finally sent u back the clutch with springs :bunny:
i say make the fw as light as possible, just carve more out, ul neva regret how quick itl rev, i mean hey if i could get away with running no flywheel what so ever i would! dont worry bout the engine, when shes fcukt just thro it out and stick a new one in :D

how much did the clutch cost? if u dont mind me askin, i need one, as anythin past 7 pound and she lets go. just pm me if u dont wana throw figures round out here.

(my post was bigger than ur original one, opps)

[Pagz]

Yip the springs are there to absorb vibration and make engament smoother,it also helps with transmission wear and noise!.

might have to check out mercedes shop ay!

LOL just throw out for a new one...er well it wouldnt be that expensive actually^^....you know as well as i do mine will not be that light =P



I think the kit cost $855usd,i used UltraRev.com as they did paypal..so no need for wire transfers(~1400nz incl shipping) and comes with a new thrust bearing and location tool,if you got one for urs it would be a similar price i think(if it was 3+)...
so not very cheap....the other option would be to custom fit one,but i think its much easier to make a custom FW to suit a pressure plate and disk already designed for the 202.


Oh and iv thrown out the oil cooler project...as we farked the front cover...its very porous and full of oil...so need a new one or second hand...new is $491 cost^^

Man i spent along time with the dremel on this one haha,there was a second mount ment to be welded beside it for a return...
the guys called me up and said it doesnt look good,the pockets of air and oil just blow the weld everywhere...the weld on the left was an attempt at welding the pin hole where oil was seaping from the cast,pic says it all =)
the only way to install an oil cooler is to relocate the filter and make a custom cap to take and return it from the original filter housing...which is a cheap way imo...as you end up with a chamber full of oil,and you would need to modify the oil drop valve when the filter is removed.

RULE: NEVER weld any part to the M111 but on the sump.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_405_full.jpg?090813-258

Laters


Oh and Ross the boss is away this week....so i have to wait till next week to start the FW...will get the price when hes back i guess!....the flange is still there too!.

[Pagz]

"but worth every penny as long as no fitment issues or troubles once installed.. *fingers crossed*"

Iv had thoughts of assembling the whole thing going to start it and finding it wont disengage properly...or it shudders and is a complete pita to drive....iv started praying to the car gods early^^

[c280nz]

whos making the flywheel, cos i reckon my mate will make it for cheaper as a perky, get a quote first and let me know.

why cant u just use the turbo oil feed to go to the oil cooler then back thru the turbo?

shit that clutch is expensive! i hope it holds the hp your laying down.

if ur welding to cast you have to weld to a large chunk of it not a strengthing fin, but that sucks about thefront cover, just get it patched, dremel it tidy and paint it, dont spend excessive mula on it

[Pagz]

I use a little business called Burr engineering...they get a lot of work from our company.
they made pretty much every machined part on the car like the intake manifold flange etc,and always seem to charge a decent price for the work!.
I was planning to use endeavor engineering in Tauranga as they specialize more in FW stuff...but i can call into burr on the way home from work to sort issues...tauranga is a pita.
I will get a price though and get back to ya!...there is a fairly huge amount of work involved in the flywheel....i may or may not have gone alittle overboard with design...lol:p

Using the turbo oil feed really isnt an option as any oil taken from here will have to be returned to the sump which equates to a drop in oil pressure over the whole system.
if you were to take it from here it would need to be a very small amount,which would possibly be inefficient at cooling the system.

The pipes really need to come off straight after the pump,through a thermostat/cooler and back to the engine...in -10 pipe!!.

man i hope that clutch does the job too...im not sure how much more failures i can take lol


I should have taken a before welding shot of that front cover,i had made two small flat mounts out of 16mm alloy plate,i ground them to perfectly suit the shape of the cover with a large dremel and also ground away the thin supports on the cover so that we could get the torch in around to weld it...when i ground away the support to the left in the pic i noticed a small puddle of oil which kept puddling even after i wiped it away(the cover was thoroughly washed prior to) ...i told the guys to put a spot of weld on there to stop oil when it was installed back under oil pressure...it wouldnt weld at all...nor would any of the thick casting...it had to many pockets of air or oil...and blu weld all over the torch...we all new it could happen...but i just had to try lol.
So theres no easy way to fix this,it will slowly leak oil if its re-installed.

One option would be to buy a brand new cover and weld onto it in the hope that oil was the cause of our problems....but its an expensive guest^^

All in all i think it might have to be plan B...install a 90 degree thermistor and bring the electric fans in earlier.

went on mercshop,got some intereting very stuff on there ay=)

[omegabenz]

I am not sure, but can't you buy an oil filter housing that is already cast with the oil cooler line hook ups? I know its not w202, but the m119 euro oil filter housing is about $350 or so. That might be the better way to do it. Are there any oil passages on the block that you can tap into? Like the old 560SL euro cars send oil to the cooler from the block, and then it returns to the oil filter housing. I think I have that routing correct, but maybe check out the EPC.

Im sure you have done this already though right?

[c280nz]

yea im not sure how much of the stuff on there would relate to your car, but theres people there that seem to know there merc tuning,

i was meaning to plumb the oil line from the block thru the oil cooler, then thru the turbo and dump into the sump like its ment to anyway, but i guess like you say it wouldnt be enough flow to be effective,
keep your fw simple, u shud just make it out of mild steel and get more taken out instead of using different metals combined,
if ive learnt anything so far its over complicated= cock ups.

yea and omega said, i was thinking the same, why didnt you just drill and tap another oil line, but i poresumed u would have had your reasoning for doing what you did

[Pagz]

The reason i was planning to make it out of 7075 is that we can make it to the exact size of the original fw and still only be around 25% lighter with the added wieght of the ringgear,timing gear and steel face...doing it this way does require a few more screws,though the only real difference between going steel or alloy is screws on the friction surface,and a few hellacoils.
but i know what you mean simple is always better for this stuff!

Im still debating remaking the timing gear vs cutting it of the oe fw,it may be better to make it as it could be deaper for better fixing,will see i guess

Omega,yeh iv been though all the ways you can do it...none are easy!...though i never thought there was another cover made that housed oil returns!...i will check that thx.

[Pagz]

Theres hope yet!
the 2.3L M111 vito van uses an oil-water cooler mounted to the rear of the oil filter housing,the housing has a different part # to mine.

It looks like the cooler bolts directly upto where i was trying to weld on those mounts!...part 29,32,17,14 are the bits(its a bypass valve if oil cooler gets blocked but needs to be there so oil is diverted to the cooler) i was going to custom make it make mine work!...but didnt know were even made for this engine!!

So next is to do a shit load of research on the vito engine and see if we can get just the front cover!!!...i dont think theres room to do the water cooler though,my FPR and manifold inhibit that area so air - oil will be the likley outcome.



http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_406_full.jpg?441419-261

[Pagz]

Hey Ross,do you ever get Vito 230 M111's at your work?...i would say there fairly rare as most would go D power =)

[Pagz]

Hey Logan,
Did your FW face have a tapper towards the centre?
mine does by quiet a bit(~ 1.5mm+ )so that woudld mean the outer edge of the disk would be clamped harder than the centre,which is ok for the factory thin flexi disk which have springs on the outer to allow it to conform to the tapper...but if i had have put the spec in there only about half the disk would have made contact as its so rigid!...i questioned the spec guys on why they designed a clutch kit that is possibly rated for more torque than the fw it capable of handling and also how they expected there solid disk to work with a tappered fw...........lol,i got no evidence they ever knew that but they said "we are confident it will still work ok"....how well was anyone guess^^
So i doubt if they have ever even see the fw they make this kit for...which goes for alot of aftermarket parts these days i bet!.

If you did have this tapper,did you take that into account when you designed the new fw?

Im thinking ill just use the highest measurement and make the new one dead flat,i just dont want to end up with a scenario where you push the clutch hard in and theres still a reasonable amount of friction

Oh and have taken a gamble and ordered the Vito front cover,theres no going back if its wrong lol.

Anyways,
Laters bro,have a nice weekend.

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey Ross,do you ever get Vito 230 M111's at your work?...i would say there fairly rare as most would go D power =)
we actually never got the Vito in Canada!.. at least ive never ever seen one.. EVER!
im pretty sure it was a europe only vehicle.
sorry mang.
but if it is the same block I dont see why the front cover wont work.

[c280nz]

heyo,
im not sure if my standard one had a taper?, but i do know the new FW we made was flat.
and you say that the standard dual mass couldnt handle the torque? how do you know?
i thought that the dampners in the dual mass flywheels would just "bottom out" and not be an issue with more torque, hence just be less effective?
is this correct paul

a small taper woulnt be a bad thing tho, as it would just give more clamping pressure at the very outside, hence handle more torque,
i would make the new one the same as the old one with a taper

[Pagz]

Yo,

Yeh your right about the dmfw,it would just bottom out when it hits the stops!...i guess mine was getting on a bit hence why the springs were slackening!?.

It is kind of wierd though that mine went from perfectly centred to at least 3-4 mm off centre angle after we started running the extra hp...it wouldnt have done more than 5k since i had the gearbox out!

The guys at spec recommend running the flywheel dead flat!,which would suit there rigid disk better.
but yeh i would have thought a tapper would have been best to,maybe it will be best to do it flat as thats how most are built....hmmm

Cant believe everything you read...but heres some stuff i found on the net...
Interesting about the noise when disengaging under slight load...i used to here that on mine!,i just thought it was normal!

"Premature failure of a dual mass flywheel can be caused by a variety of things other than normal wear and tear. The flywheel is engineered to handle a specific load, so if the engine has been modified to produce more power (turning up the boost pressure, for example), or adding a turbocharger or supercharger to a naturally aspirated engine, or nitrous oxide, the engine may produce more torque than the stock dual mass flywheel can handle."

"Overloading the drivetrain by pulling more weight than the vehicle's maximum towing or hauling capacity can also overtax a dual mass flywheel and lead to premature failure."

"Even if a dual mass flywheel does not experience a spring failure, the service life of most OEM dual mass flywheels is typically about the same as the clutch, which means the flywheel usually needs to be replaced when the clutch wears out. If you simply bolt in a new clutch, chances are your customer will have flywheel problems at some point down the road because of the weakened springs in the flywheel. That's why many experts recommend replacing a dual mass flywheel when changing a clutch - especially if the flywheel has more than 80,000 or 90,000 miles on it. The flywheel should be considered a wear item just like the clutch, and should be replaced when a new clutch is installed."


Its probibly just another part im replacing which wasnt nessessary LOL


Laters Bro

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
we actually never got the Vito in Canada!.. at least ive never ever seen one.. EVER!
im pretty sure it was a europe only vehicle.
sorry mang.
but if it is the same block I dont see why the front cover wont work.

Np man!,i went out to a second hand MB parts place today as they had a Vito M111!...but it didnt have the oil cool dammit! =)

So iv ordered a new one which cant be returned!...so it better fit =P

[Pagz]

Hmmm

"The dual mass systems are designed to transmit less engine vibration to the driveline, and give a better more car like driving experience. They also reduce some of the jarring and stress on the transmission and remainder of the drivetrain. They work fine as long as the engine remains unmodified and the vehicle is not used/abused beyond manufacturers recommendations.

As soon as you start to increase the engine power over stock, or load the vehicle beyond design parameters, you run into problems. Dual mass flywheels are tuned systems and must be matched to the engine torque curve, engine resonant characteristics, vehicle load curves (including axle ratio/tire size calculations). They work by having a set of springs inserted between two rotating masses (thus dual mass). The springs are sized to soak up some of the resonant vibration from the diesel engine under load conditions. A dual mass fly wheel generally also contains an over torque friction release, so if it gets suddenly overloaded, rather than damage the springs, it slips. This works fine as a safety valve, but if it does it much it burns up. In short, overloaded they burn up and the springs get destroyed and they are worse than if it were a single mass FW.

The single mass part WILL tend to transmit more engine pulse (vibration) tot he drivetrain, and will seem a bit rougher. But it is straight forward to design a single mass flywheel and clutch package for pretty much any engine torque curve and vehicle loading combo you can come up with. Drives more like a TRUCK, but has much better reliability at extreme use levels."

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Np man!,i went out to a second hand MB parts place today as they had a Vito M111!...but it didnt have the oil cool dammit! =)

So iv ordered a new one which cant be returned!...so it better fit =P
so its an oil cooler for the engine oil.. like the newer AMG cars? is there a seperate cooler that fits behind the bumper.. of just cooling fins where the cooler is at the filter housing?
sucks you couldnt get it second hand.. hope the new one fits!

[Pagz]

Yip,its an oil - water cooler,looks to be feed off the water jacket at the rear and front of the block judging by the shape of the pipes in that pic!.I plan to run an oil-air still though.
Thanks bro im hoping lots=)

I got a price for that flange,but im not going to tell you lol,even i was shocked,you'd be better off buying a new car!!!;)


logan,Iv given in=P....decided to be wise like cough*^^.... and go all steel,so much cheaper,so much stronger,so much less chance of malfunction due to cruching at the mounting point.

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
Yip,its an oil - water cooler,looks to be feed off the water jacket at the rear and front of the block judging by the shape of the pipes in that pic!.I plan to run an oil-air still though.
Thanks bro im hoping lots=)



logan,Iv given in=P....decided to be wise like cough*^^.... and go all steel,so much cheaper,so much stronger,so much less chance of malfunction due to cruching at the mounting point.
ahem il pm u my address for sending the beers:D

u going to get it tapered? or just go flat?
they shud be able to make it pritty light, just carve heaps out of the back to make it lighter,
and re-use the ring gear and magnet itl be cheaper, and save costs.

random note, my present job is buying some bigger injectors, ive already bought a fpr, and im shopping round on ebay, prolly go for 440's,

paaaaaa eace bruda

[Pagz]

hahaha...mmm heiny?=D

it was balancer bob that finally tipped me over when i asked if he could grind and balance the alloy item...he was hard against using any alloy to bolt against the crank...its just not tough enough to avoid crushing over time hence why you see aftermarket companies providing a steel disk for the bolts to clamp against the alloy...so steel is the only way really!.

I need alot of convincing some times^^ =P

have drawn up the plans,will take material from the front and rear until we get it around the "right" wieght?!?...or the weight i feel is enough to gain some performance but still rob enough hp to fight vibration...books say no more than 30% less than stock to avoid excesive vibration but who knows every aplication is so different..
Another interesting thing is you could have two flywheels that weigh the same but operate totally different depending on how far out the mass is from the centre! =)hmmmm

Yip will reuse the ring gear for sure(new is another $125).
Was planning to remake the timing gear,but to save we're going to mill off the welds and reuse it too!.

Ah yeh,hmm from memory my oe are high impedance 280cc items.
so i guess your will be high impedance too?whats the oe cc on the 280?

Remember to first set the fpr with the vaccum disconnected lol...back on that first turbo setup i installed,i wound it up to stock pressure and went for a drive...wondered why the fuel lines were making a tapping noise hahaha....DOH^^
it wasnt until i reinstalled the frp on this setup and ran the fuel pump with the engine off that i finally clicked...in my defence the manual was in japanese =D

Peace

[c280nz]

im glad you have seen the light!
gota save costs so u can spend the benjamin's on other toys,
(man ive got the american lingo dialed) :D

yea the further out you cut the material from, the less rotational mass, so i reckon try and take the 30% from as far out as possible,

i have found yes my one does have more vibration if i let the revs get to low in a to higher gear, e.g. below 2krpm in 4th or 5th, but this is more because of labouring the engine i think.
but ur gona find traction is more of an issue with the engine free'd up and reving quicker, esp in first and second, 265s help but not that much..... :eek:

my standard injectors are 210cc, high impediance,
i steped it up to 310s but there still too small, so next step.

remember this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H2BOGGUbm4

i gota go dont wana miss shortie street :p

[Pagz]

lol

haha yeh i remember that at 8.30!...hated it^^,only ment one thing =D

Yeh bout the traction,really need lsd at some stage,its a pain atm if i need to get up an uneven driveway it easily picks up one wheel.

lol shortie street.^^

hmmm can you give me a run through on your ignition and fuel system?...are your running the injectors of the stock ecu still but altering mas input signal?

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
lol

hmmm can you give me a run through on your ignition and fuel system?...are your running the injectors of the stock ecu still but altering mas input signal?

yea thats correct :(
i havent got the cash down the back of the couch 2 spend on fast and furious style "stand alone engine management systems"
haha:p
but really i shud go stand alone, but i dont really have the electrical skills/time(to learn) to wire it in myself, and i like doing asmuch myself as i can,
i just quietly tinkering when i get the chance now-erdays.
just couldnt get enough fuel with the current injectors so need to go larger, that is using the factory fuel maps,
im lookn round on ebay at the mo for the larger ones, shud cost about 200 usd for 8, 440cc/42pound which isnt to bad, i only need 6 but the v8 guys seem to drop injectors like there hot, and it is often cheaper to buy 8 than 6 :confused:

[Pagz]

Hmmm i feel ya(tryin my lingo on =P) im no pro on engine programing,but you probably need to start altering ignition timing at some stage too!,altering the maf signal would become more coarse the further you push the pressure up or enlargen injectors?...0.o

does the Apexi have a pressure sensor?...

either way i guess it would depend how large the mas sensor window was ...eg 1 - 5v window over 5 pounds may be ok,but 1-5v over 10 pounds becomes much more coarse.

Can you tell me how the apexi works?...does it take the signal say 1- 5v and alter it based on its own pressure pickup?

The wirings not to hard,i could always help out with that!,its the dyno tuning which is a pita,especially if your not close to one!
theres also the other issues like you'll have to keep the stock ecu and run the stand along on the engine,i havent sorted my ASR,and ABS lights yet lol.
prolly best to try run stock ecu and maybe go piggy back?...kinda like that other guy with that turbo M111 with greddy managment?...totally not sure how they hooked that in though ^^

man long day excuse the messy post=P
got the vito front cover....booooya =D...will get a pick up at some stage.

[Pagz]

Spot the difference =)

stoked as!

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_418_full.jpg?102421-273

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_419_full.jpg?102421-273


now for the fw !!

[c280nz]

there seems to be a few additional oil lines on that filter housing for ya!
well at least somethin has gone right, ditto on the stoked as

yes you are correct on needing ignition timing, it is important for tuning but you can get away without it, all you have to do is stop pre-ignition/detonation, either by running less ignition timing, cooler plugs, less boost, cooler charge, higher octane fuel,
they all help, im using the cooler charge and cooler plugs and the correct a/r ratio to try and prevent detonation at this stage, and so far all is going ok,

i am usng a greedy emanage piggyback, it has ignition control and it has an optional boost port, and you can also wire the standard injectors into it also, but i am just using the maf voltage modifacation at present,
i really really shud get the rest wired in, i have a friend that is a auto electrician, i shud really get him on the job!
current tuning is based on revs and throttle position and adjusts maf relative to these

my problem is if i do all that then i can run more boost and have to get a heavier clutch,
put it this way, below 8pounds maf modifaction works fine, above this i need a new clutch first, then more wiring for tuning above this, so my next step is a little more drawn out and im waiting for some time/inspiration.
thats were im at.

im not sure if as you say with bigger injectors the tuning may get more coarse, if it does i will have to do the -injector wire in- i was talking about

[Pagz]

Ahhh for some reason i thought you went with the apexi add-on!(hence the coarse tuning)...sweet so that piggyback should do everything you'll ever need once its all wired in!...will be better than stand alone with your setup as you will still run the bulletproof oe base maps!


Im still alittle confused about how the piggyback works the OE ecu just with TPS and MAS intup/output.

I mean like,if you have an oe map...the ecu wants to see a valid mas and tps input within its operating settings(min and max map values)...so i guess you can only alter the signal within its operating window??...if so wouldnt the mas operate outside its operating window with added boost being a stock C280 mas...or does it happily read above 14.7 atmo? 0o help this hurts^^

[Pagz]

ah just read this....mmm google =D

http://blogs.superstreetonline.com/6204615/editorials/stand-alone-ecu-vs-piggyback-ecu/index.html

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
Ahhh for some reason i thought you went with the apexi add-on!(hence the coarse tuning)...sweet so that piggyback should do everything you'll ever need once its all wired in!...will be better than stand alone with your setup as you will still run the bulletproof oe base maps!


Im still alittle confused about how the piggyback works the OE ecu just with TPS and MAS intup/output.

I mean like,if you have an oe map...the ecu wants to see a valid mas and tps input within its operating settings(min and max map values)...so i guess you can only alter the signal within its operating window??...if so wouldnt the mas operate outside its operating window with added boost being a stock C280 mas...or does it happily read above 14.7 atmo? 0o help this hurts^^
u even confused me here with your explaination haha,

yes this is correct it alters the signal from th mas between 0-5v, i have been running my maf in a larger housing, hence incresing the air flow for the same 0-5v reading,
and yes u get the best tuning by fine adjusting the voltage between this, and once you hit the 5v reading it simply dumps in as much fuel as the map says it can at that rpm range,
so for example if i run a smaller maf and it got to 5v at only 2000rpm it would still curve the fuel up as the revs go up, the standard computer uses rpm tps airflow and air temp as the main determinating factors for fuel input, and if u peg one of them out it uses the others to influence the curve, just the same as if u put ur foot flat it then goes of the other sensors,


what i like about the standard ecu is when crusing it uses the standard o2 sensor in closed loop for maximum fuel economy,
my car uses no more fuel now(if not less) than it used to before turboing

u article says to use a stand alone, as i sortof already know,
but i really cant validate spending that much more $$$ on my car at present, as a standalone wiring and tune will prolly be an extra 2-3k......
maby one-day

[Pagz]

haha

Ah peg was the term i was looking for,and all makes sense now!
Yeh its definitly a good idea running closed loop!,mine is very thursty atm,however the motec is capable of closed loop,and i have a new O2 sensor i plan to run it on when we get it back for tuning!...hopfully its not to involved in setting it up!.

Yeh cost of ecu is a pain i look at it like if i hadnt have spent it on the motec i would have had to give half to her earlier this year anyway LOL...but yeh if you dont plan to run too much more boost theres really no reason you would need a stand alone,just get your ignition tied in,change the clutch and tune,should be sweet....oh and take me for a drive =P....must be making good hp to slip the clutch!!

do you have much engine movement under power?...im thinking of using the V8 mounts,there quite alot harder and look identical!.

[Pagz]

ops

[Pagz]

Man shouldnt have given me the number...expect txt questions at any random time ^^
thanks but all good on the timing ring gear....we cut the old one off and have machined it to suit!...it will work ok

Yeh every second day i call in to see where its at...if they would have just stayed on the job and done it it would have been all good...but instead every time it got hard it was shoved to one side and left for a week....then we forget where we were at at what was the original concept...anyways so late last week i redrew it for about the 6th or 7th time and got them to draw it up on some flashy software...the weight comes out at 9.7kg,and thats without the machining around the upstands to hold the pressure plate,or the machining around the lower skirt where the timing bolts on...so it should be close to 8kg when its done...just shy of the 20% lighter 7.6kg target(without ringgear,timing and minus extra spec wieght)

not much detail in the pics,its was mostly done to show overall weight and to get an indication of final design.
there drawing up the mill program tonight damn i hope they werent kidding....i need to have this thing back together at the end of this month for a shot at having it going for use at mates wedding early next year!!l =S


http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_422_full.jpg?043318-316

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_423_full.jpg?043318-316

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_424_full.jpg?043318-316

Laters,
Paul

[c280nz]

a flexy disc is the disc autos use in front of the torque converter that only has the timing segments and ring gear on it, its pritty light,
i was meaning use one in front of the flywheel then you can cut alot of the weight off the back where u have to extend out for the ring gear.
because these flywheels are wide its one way of just having two flat plates, then the flywheel just has to be alot thinner,
i am taking my engine and gearbox out at the moment and are contenplating changing my flywheel when its out,
im sticking a new motor and clutch in,
i hope you followed that, i just read what i wrote and i cant even understand it haha

[Pagz]

Ah yeh now you mention it i did sketch a design like that...but wasnt sure it was going to be much lighter...however i guess if you put the ringgear and timing on one it prolly would have been!

LOL....i did have to read that last part a heap^^
huh...new engine 0.o
Whats the deal with a new FW?...making it to suit another pressure plate?...or making it heavier?^^

[c280nz]

im meaning i may cut myne down even lighter and run the flexy disc,
- im not planning on towing a boat or caravan so i should be alright :-P
im also changing to a sprung clutch center and geting a higher rated pressure plate to handle the jandal
i bought an auto 280 engine for $500 and it come with the flexy,
and me and my engineer friend (were i do all my work) are going to look at it when it comes out to see if we can carve more off the flywheel and use the disc for timing and ring gear to save overall weight,
new engine in because i think i either fried my rings or cracked a ringland running too lean, i have bigger injectors to go in with the new engine

my current engine is still going, just has lots of blowby, and it has to be running perfect when it comes time to race my friends 202 which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo,
(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance) :D


me and a few mates are talking bout hiring out manfeild for a day when all our cars are finally going ǝɯosǝʍɐ :confused:

[RemoLexi]

Hey Paul!

looks to me your still going with your 202 project - looking great!!!

hey im planning to swap a 5-speed into my 280 im building the motor on right now (check members gal.) and so im going to be needing a clutch kit and a flywheel.

any reccomendations ? should I stick with OEM or would it be possible to get what your getting ?

ive got a 104 (i think the flywheels would bolt up from 111)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
im meaning i may cut myne down even lighter and run the flexy disc,
- im not planning on towing a boat or caravan so i should be alright :-P
im also changing to a sprung clutch center and geting a higher rated pressure plate to handle the jandal
i bought an auto 280 engine for $500 and it come with the flexy,
and me and my engineer friend (were i do all my work) are going to look at it when it comes out to see if we can carve more off the flywheel and use the disc for timing and ring gear to save overall weight,
new engine in because i think i either fried my rings or cracked a ringland running too lean, i have bigger injectors to go in with the new engine

my current engine is still going, just has lots of blowby, and it has to be running perfect when it comes time to race my friends 202 which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo,
(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance) :D


me and a few mates are talking bout hiring out manfeild for a day when all our cars are finally going ǝɯosǝʍɐ :confused:


lol lighter,there must be next to nothing left on it already?=P
ah crap,so are you getting oil in all the cylinders??,or only a few?



(which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo



(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance) :D

LOL



Manfield would be cool as,could be scary along side a rotor 202 hehe.
What does it cost?...i think the eurosport guys might have hired that last year,was like $1600 for the day if i recall

[Pagz]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
Hey Paul!

looks to me your still going with your 202 project - looking great!!!

hey im planning to swap a 5-speed into my 280 im building the motor on right now (check members gal.) and so im going to be needing a clutch kit and a flywheel.

any reccomendations ? should I stick with OEM or would it be possible to get what your getting ?

ive got a 104 (i think the flywheels would bolt up from 111)

Hey bro,
thanks!,couldnt get enough of the 202 huh =P
Kinda depends on what your plans are...If you run n/a then i would just go with a stock clutch setup,maybe go a low stage spec kit.
Unless you want a lighter flywheel,stick with the OE,but if you plan to run much higher hp then a single mass could be a better idea...however the M111 uses a different FW to the 104,Logan(c280nz) would be the man to speak to.

get heaps of pics on the trans change!...its often spoken of and never done here would be good to finally see how much is involved! =)


Paul

[RemoLexi]

good to know the 104 FW is diff from 111.

yep, ive already got enough pics up in members gal. motor ripped apart. ;)

i want to boost the motor like 1/2 bar

[Pagz]

Fark thought it was never going to be completed^^

all balanced ready to go...only concern is the shitty spec clutch disk which was way out of balance and has a 110 thou wobble...:s
that may lead to poor disengagement 0o ...i dunno,im over it.


The guys did an awsome job on the flywheel...all surfaces are flat and only required minimal balancing.


PICS!


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580425_large.jpg?153420-331

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580426_large.jpg?153420-331

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580427_large.jpg?153420-331

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580429_large.jpg?153420-331

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580428_large.jpg?153420-331

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580430_large.jpg?153420-331


Have taken a week off next week to assemble the engine and get it all going...wish me luck hehe:s


Paul

[c280nz]

wow,
everything u do is so bloody impressive/expensive,
wot a car ballr
so u got to get custom flywheel bolts 2?

thatl be sick, il get back to you on the type of steel i used, but i can guarantee it wont be anything like u used, prolly just mild steel, it hasnt warn bugger all tho, how much that setup weigh?

[c280nz]

had to make a new post instead of editing, have to get to 2229 posts,
used 1040 apparantly,
done 10k and pritty much looks like the day it went in, clutch is standard material and was about 1/3 worn,

ul be saaaaweeet as tim tams in ur jim jams,

...haha dont worry even i think im a cock

irralavant side note
i think ive found a second hand low ks manual box in aucks for $500, my one is starting to get a bit noisy so out with the old in with the new,

one day il make my own topic and stop being massivly off topic in ur ones, telling my life story.

[Pagz]

LOL


Na no custom bolts!....but if i had time:p
havent had a bill for the flywheel yet...mmm=D

Flywheel: 10.01kg
Pressure plate: 5.01kg
Clutch disk: 1.63kg.

If i recall stock was about 21.3kg,so where about 22% lighter overall.


lol as rippin me hard today,only 2229?:D

Sweet as 1040 is just slightly softer than 1045,so it should be all good,especially running a composite clutch disk!,after some lengthy talks with comp clutches iv removed that metal friction material,its now kevlar which should be much more drivable and wont eat the 1045!,they also uprated the pressure plate from 1510lbs to 3650lbs,didnt even know you could do that?...could even be done to the stock item i would think!
apparently the rivits holding the spring mech on the disk were loose so they have been repressed,lol @ spec


haha,its ok bro nobody surfs the peformance section these days anyways might as well fill it with something^^



PICS...its like early xmas at my place^^

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580431_large.jpg?310021-332

Oil fittings ready to go!,just so happens they had a program for -10an fittings on the lathe :cool:

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580432_large.jpg?310021-332

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580433_large.jpg?310021-332

laters

[c280nz]

dont pay the bill for the flywheel, just claim uve got no money from the global recession, :eek:
every1 else seems to haha

i only asked about the bolts because the thickness of your new flywheel where it bolts to the crank seems very thin, my standard one was very thick and had long flywheel bolts so i made my new one with a thick center to use the same bolts.

yea the performance section shud be renamed, pauls section :D
i wish theyd open the forum up to new members this is dieing slowly.

did they double spring your pressure plate? i want to uprate my pressure plate just like you did and i was under the understanding all they do is double spring them, who did it and how much was it?
i was gona just run standard material but try and get them to spring my stock clutch disc center.

im also looking into these phantom grip lsds, a guy over on mercedesshop has put one in his w210 e class turbo (same motor and diff as myne)
if it works out il let you know.
beached as bro

that things gona hold up nice tho!
spec seem pritty usless!

[SLAMMED_C]

damn son!.. that flywheel looks good. guys did great work machining.
whats the point of this new front cover again?.. oil feeds for an external cooler was it? those an fittings turned out great too.. gotta love a lathe!

[omeyhomey]

Spec makes amazing products, you can't go wrong with them.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
dont pay the bill for the flywheel, just claim uve got no money from the global recession, :eek:
every1 else seems to haha

i only asked about the bolts because the thickness of your new flywheel where it bolts to the crank seems very thin, my standard one was very thick and had long flywheel bolts so i made my new one with a thick center to use the same bolts.

yea the performance section shud be renamed, pauls section :D
i wish theyd open the forum up to new members this is dieing slowly.

did they double spring your pressure plate? i want to uprate my pressure plate just like you did and i was under the understanding all they do is double spring them, who did it and how much was it?
i was gona just run standard material but try and get them to spring my stock clutch disc center.

im also looking into these phantom grip lsds, a guy over on mercedesshop has put one in his w210 e class turbo (same motor and diff as myne)
if it works out il let you know.
beached as bro

that things gona hold up nice tho!
spec seem pritty usless!


Haha reckon,havent they sorted the new users yet? 0o

oh true so you werent takin the piss=D used the OE bolts the mounting thickness is same as stock,so the 280 is really thick huh,wierd 0o

Not sure exactly what they did to the pressure plate,i did ask but somhow missed a decent responce...they probly just opened it up,check the pressure was good and refitted,charged me $195.I would assume they changed the spring or doubled it,will have to ask again.
Was pretty shocked to find the clutch didnt feel any heavier than stock,certainly has more bite tho.

Yeh if you can run the stock friction material with a sprung centre,uprate the pressure it should be all good!...I try out the new clutch setup yesturday,works well...alittle jittery in reverse but its very early days yet have only got about 80km on her.

Very interested in the lsd,even with only 22% less mass on the flywheel the wheels want to let go on pretty much anything now^^...is the phantom grip a real lsd,or a few springs sandwitched in the diff?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
damn son!.. that flywheel looks good. guys did great work machining.
whats the point of this new front cover again?.. oil feeds for an external cooler was it? those an fittings turned out great too.. gotta love a lathe!


Yo,
Vito front has oil in and out on the rear of the oil filter housing,Iv used some spare -10 fitting to plumb it straight back in for now,need to order the cooler and thermostat as funds allow,was in hot weather this week,definitly need a cooler!,and will have to design a vent for the hood too!
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2943/3161/7356580445_large.jpg?292414-339

[Pagz]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
Spec makes amazing products, you can't go wrong with them.

They may make some nice products for other cars,but the items i got for the 202 were along way from acceptable for the cost,the pressure plate is nothing more than a glorified SAX item,panted blue and labeled with a budget spec sticker....i was shown an identical SAX item unpainted for 1/3 the cost.
secondly,the clutch disk face was so poorly aligned before riviting that it would have caused vibration.
the sprung centre,which is made by some other company needed re-pressing to properly lock it together.
the friction material was also warped 110 thou and is incredibly stiff,this may have made poor disengagement.

[c280nz]

i like your impressive loop oil feed tubes.
my engine came with a water to oil cooler in the filter housing, to keep the oil cool.
ive taken my clutch into the shop and it is geting sent to auckland at the mo, and ive got to talk to the guy about sprung center and pressure plate options.

yea phantom grip is just a spring block, but kleenman sell the same sortof kit, and there ment to be ok

[Pagz]

Hmm so all 104 have the oil to water cooler? 0o...nice!.

all good,wheres it being sent in aucks?

Just wondering,because a spring block simply adds consistant pressure would it have negative effects in normal driving/corners when its not needed?

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
Hmm so all 104 have the oil to water cooler? 0o...nice!.

all good,wheres it being sent in aucks?

Just wondering,because a spring block simply adds consistant pressure would it have negative effects in normal driving/corners when its not needed?

im not sure were in aucks, i just dropped it in2 my local clutch shop, do you have any recomendations?

no not all m104 engines have the water/oil cooler, my standard engine did, and my replacement engine didnt, so im swaping it over from my old engine at the mo (waiting on gasgets etc,)

yes the spring block is exactly as you described, it will slowly wear out during normal driving, but this is the same as all clutch type lsd's

all i want one for is when i dump the clutch so i can go round and round till im dizzy :D
oh and drifting round manfield on biscuits, holla at the redneck

edit: just looking back thru the pictures on this post man u do everything so nice and tidy! its all perfect, you would get on well with my friend who helped with all my work, he is a ott perfectionist like yourself, i am jelous of his and your workmanship
he built his own twin paddle clutch for his sr20 powered hiace, the thing is literally a on off switch, ud rip the ass off the crank b4 that thing would slip :cool:

hows the car going and driving? i needa day off to work on my car like you had!
l8rs

[Pagz]

Yo,
back to work today,signaling the end of my week on the car...gutted it went way to fast^^

Heard back about the clutch yet?...I used the guys at morning side,clutch.co.nz,they were recommended to me by my balancer,who is highly recommedend by many,so i took his word as hes been pretty much spot on with everything he's said in the last few years.

hahaha ah man you not gunna track the 19's? :D

Classic sr hiace huh!,i bet its on off lol,and with zero wieght in the back pretty scary at times?^^
yeh I think maybe alittle ott at times haha,its my downfall...i just try to make it how i would want to buy it,and workmanship goes to the guys at Burr,i just make sure its how i like it^^,i do do as much as possible myself though would try it all if i had a cnc lathe/mill =)


The new engine is running nice,was a bit nervous when i first started her up,as the book says timing is 20 ATDC,where as i built it at 30 ATDC(which is what i kinda remember removing it at ^^) ,i turned it over quite a few times by hand before i used the starter to pump oil,about 4 turns and it fired up.Runs much smoother than with the JE pistons...however each time i start it up from cold in the morning it runs alittle rough,but no worse than the first time i started it...that could be a number of things like i bridged the fuel pump and drained the tank....well i thought i did,but after i put 20L in and check the gauge it was 2/3 full lol,so theres some good and really crap fuel in there,i took the spark plugs out and they have a fair amount of carbon on them so maybe the ecu needs retuned fuel maps when is cold as well now we actually have some compression when its cold^^...if its not any of those things i really hope its not my engine building haha...but it runs nice once its slightly warmer.

First day i got it going i took it for a drive to paihia...and went through the worst road works,fresh watered down tar with just enough stone to cover...did about 2000000kms of damage in under 400m lol....stoptech kit jammed up 3 times,theres gouges under the caliper and on the outside of the rotors,removed most of the paint from the rear of the front gaurds,added at least 50 fresh stone chips to bonnet and doors...so much stonage that i had to remove the wheels and clear out the suspension...i removed 1.8Kg or tar covered stone from around the springs and shocks LOOOOL....that sh!t was grinding up everything^^


So next mission is to get it certed,wofd,regod for this summer...fark more $ i dont Have^^






Laters

[c280nz]

back to work today,signaling the end of my week on the car...gutted it went way to fast^^


****ha bugger ah time off goes so fast u normally end up busyier when your off work than when ur at work, u end up needing a holiday at the end of your holiday, well thats how it is with me,

Heard back about the clutch yet?...I used the guys at morning side,clutch.co.nz,they were recommended to me by my balancer,who is highly recommedend by many,so i took his word as hes been pretty much spot on with everything he's said in the last few years.

****nah not yet i rung them today and there gona let me know what the go is and inform me of costs and ideas before they do any work on the clutch, may need to get the flywheel machined slightly in the middle to fit the clutch disc springs in :-s

hahaha ah man you not gunna track the 19's? :D

**** id take like a few sets of tires including the 19s with me :-)

Classic sr hiace huh!,i bet its on off lol,and with zero wieght in the back pretty scary at times?^^
yeh I think maybe alittle ott at times haha,its my downfall...i just try to make it how i would want to buy it,and workmanship goes to the guys at Burr,i just make sure its how i like it^^,i do do as much as possible myself though would try it all if i had a cnc lathe/mill =)

*****^^ that is exactly what i was thinking but didnt say it in the last post and thought id let u say it to make sure iz right, u pick what gets done and have a standard to do things to and the guys do the work how u want it, no one in the real world has all the gear to build the hole thing themselves, but i know what u mean by if u had a mill! i think the same thing, but ud also need 12 months and $5000 worth of tools and learning material to get good on it ah.

The new engine is running nice,was a bit nervous when i first started her up,as the book says timing is 20 ATDC,where as i built it at 30 ATDC(which is what i kinda remember removing it at ^^) ,i turned it over quite a few times by hand before i used the starter to pump oil,about 4 turns and it fired up.Runs much smoother than with the JE pistons...however each time i start it up from cold in the morning it runs alittle rough,but no worse than the first time i started it...that could be a number of things like i bridged the fuel pump and drained the tank....well i thought i did,but after i put 20L in and check the gauge it was 2/3 full lol,so theres some good and really crap fuel in there,i took the spark plugs out and they have a fair amount of carbon on them so maybe the ecu needs retuned fuel maps when is cold as well now we actually have some compression when its cold^^...if its not any of those things i really hope its not my engine building haha...but it runs nice once its slightly warmer.

****high performance vehicles with large turbos etc are always tempra-mental especially with stand alones, because u never spend the time on the dyno and in different temps/environments/fuels etc that the factory guys put into the factory ecu. i hate starting engines for the first time, it feels like your stomach is flying away with butterfly power

First day i got it going i took it for a drive to paihia...and went through the worst road works,fresh watered down tar with just enough stone to cover...did about 2000000kms of damage in under 400m lol....stoptech kit jammed up 3 times,theres gouges under the caliper and on the outside of the rotors,removed most of the paint from the rear of the front gaurds,added at least 50 fresh stone chips to bonnet and doors...so much stonage that i had to remove the wheels and clear out the suspension...i removed 1.8Kg or tar covered stone from around the springs and shocks LOOOOL....that sh!t was grinding up everything^^

***i once came thru the desert road and a tar truck had been leaking from about wairaru till about the middle of the desert road, a long strip of tar, and to fix it they just layed stones ontop to cover it up, it must of just happened, i had stones everywhere and tar dripping off my car for ages, id go out the next day and there would be piles of tar from running off the inside of the guards, and so much tar on the inside of the wheels they were out of balance, i was over it.

So next mission is to get it certed,wofd,regod for this summer...fark more $ i dont Have^^

*** beta book the cert in, thats about a 2 week job at the best of times

man i got fancy with the editing on this one

feuw *looks around for a rona and runs out to the lemon tree*
l8rs

[Pagz]

ha bugger ah time off goes so fast u normally end up busyier when your off work than when ur at work, u end up needing a holiday at the end of your holiday, well thats how it is with me,

Zackly!!!

****nah not yet i rung them today and there gona let me know what the go is and inform me of costs and ideas before they do any work on the clutch, may need to get the flywheel machined slightly in the middle to fit the clutch disc springs in :-s

We built this fw so it was possible to have the springs on either side,lucky we did as the offset centre ended up having to go the opposite to stock to clear the thrust bearing guide,so springs are inside the flywheel rather than the pressure plate,is is possible to remove metal and make it fit yours?

**** id take like a few sets of tires including the 19s with me :-)

Dont forget some decent pads!...work mate made a mess of his SS brakes last time^^...meh its a holden aw

****high performance vehicles with large turbos etc are always tempra-mental especially with stand alones, because u never spend the time on the dyno and in different temps/environments/fuels etc that the factory guys put into the factory ecu. i hate starting engines for the first time, it feels like your stomach is flying away with butterfly power

hehe yeh.
we did cut the tuning alittle short last time tho,i will install the O2 and idle control before next tune i think!.

***i once came thru the desert road and a tar truck had been leaking from about wairaru till about the middle of the desert road, a long strip of tar, and to fix it they just layed stones ontop to cover it up, it must of just happened, i had stones everywhere and tar dripping off my car for ages, id go out the next day and there would be piles of tar from running off the inside of the guards, and so much tar on the inside of the wheels they were out of balance, i was over it.

Ouch^^

*** beta book the cert in, thats about a 2 week job at the best of times man i got fancy with the editing on this one feuw *looks around for a rona and runs out to the lemon tree* l8rs

Hahaha had my heiny in hand when i red this^^,lately been tryin steiny pure,not bad...

Cert cost 400 - 450+gst,so iv got some second hand upper control arms,going to modify them to make adjustable so dont have to cert it again after!!
adjusting the top means it wont lose much track width and will look staunch too :cool:

Awsome colour posting^^...forgot the option was there...rainbow was tempting:p

Laters bro

[c280nz]

make 2 sets of those top arms and il make sure you neva run outa pure's for a year :D

yea bout the track, ive got better pads, but i really need to get a big brake kit, pads alone dont really cut it.

um i need some advice about the clutch,
i rung my shop 2day and they told me they cant make my one into a sprung center,
and ive been looking around the merc parts catalogue and have found one sprung center, so i mite ring and price that one,
do you think your clutch shop would be able to make myne sprung? it was clutch.co.nz ah, who did you deal with in there?

[Pagz]

Hehe,ill make the prototype first and see how it goes,I cut the ball joint off this morning,it will need minor machining possibly a grove for a circlip,either that or we pull the nilon out and weld the socket on.
Going to reuse the oe bush if i can get away with it,it seems they cannot be removed so will need to weld onto the arm rather than weld a complete new arm onto the bush housing.

Yeh they will be able to make a sprung one for sure,they will probly be able to make yours sprung,but i would think it would cost almost the same as a new one!.
I used Neil at clutch.co.nz,seemed to be ok ish

[c280nz]

i rung up neil, and he can make myne sprung,
so i will probebly send it up to him,
i dont know were i can get a new sprung one from?
any idea?

and he can also make my pressure plate heavier aswel

[Pagz]

Awsum!...i should have just uprated my oe too....ffs lol
By new I ment custom making one complete with new clutch face. If they are going to make yours sprung they possibly only reuse the friction material i would think? 0o

[c280nz]

i hope they put on new friction material, but il make sure i ask them to, my last clutch would of probebly only lasted me 20k
going by how much wear it had on it after 10:)

[Pagz]

what causes a clutch to wear fast,is it to much slip?...or a heavy pressure plate that causes high stress on engagement?
or is it a combination of friction material,pressure plate and driving...i mean like....if you ran the oe disk with a heavier plate with the stock engine...would is wear faster than with the lighter pressure plate even though both arnt slipping?...


the guys at clutch said not to slip the kevlar clutch,they said it will heat up very quickly...i regret not asking why that was such a bad thing...maybe there referring to the heat cooking the crank seal or somthing...i dunno.

man im tired...not sure i made a point here^^


google^^

[c280nz]

haha 2 late at night ah,
i think they dont like them slipping because it can cook the surface of the clutch pads, and they get heat glazed.
like brake pads, once glazed they dont work very well anymore,
and i think what wears a pad out is the combination of load/slipping, just like brake pads

[Pagz]

Ah ok forgot bout the glazing thing,yeh that will be what they ment!,whats happened with your clutch and fw?
Have done a few more K's on the engine now,been in to try sort the fault codes looks like the BAS/ASR light will need to be pulled theres no way it will every be happy again ^^

As for the new clutch setup its smooth if you engage it it a positive way...you can slip it ok but theres a point where it will begin to shudder...its all about technique^^

No smoke at all from the engine...alittle black when at wot but cant get to tuners till late jan now!.

Installed engine mounts from the V8,much less engine rock!,also had pmw remake the heat shield and the header tank and aircon pipes in alloy around the turbo as they would have eventually been ripped by engine movment.

Have run out of time on the camber arms the movable plate will be done in Jan all going well.

flippin head liner material has pulled away from the roof 0o...grrr,think its cos i put a car cover on after washing it a few weeks back,was pretty damp!.

Anyways im broke,havent bought any xmas prezzies yet^^...dammit,cars^^

Have a good ny!

Laters,
Paul