Is this sacrilege? I want thought from the 202 community

[zmatt]

Talked to my fabricator today, mostly about intake related things and he brought up motor swaps. He says I should do an LS1 swap. They can be had for cheap around here, he has done the swap into random cars on several occasions, and maintenance on an sbc is much cheaper than a Mercedes engine. The motor and tranny should cost around $1500 if we shop around.

The pros are obvious.
-350hp easy
-more power is also easy
-stupid reliable engine
-cheaper than turbo or AMG swap
-still sounds like an AMG V8 for the most part

Cons
-not Mercedes
-I'm not a huge fan of OHV V8s
-going to need some custom parts such as mounts, fuel pump, not sure how to make the gauges work
-probably a lot of scorn from the community

For easy power its hard top argue with it, and as Kentucky power I can't deny the allure of Corvette power, but I wanted to see what you guys thought. If i decided to go down this road then I wouldn't make a major move until when my tax rebate comes in, so plenty of time to back out.


The cheap, reliable power and a 6speed would make getting into track work, especially drifting much easier. I could also toss on an AMG body kit and have myself a poor man's C55.

[zmatt]

wow 22 views and nothing? I'd expect at least a flame by now.

[Ontru]

I think you should go for it. Practicality and power outweigh it not being a Mercedes engine and LS1's are being swapped into everything nowadays.

[SD202]

DO IT NAO. I have wanted to see this done for a while. its been talked about amongst the "community" without a doubt everyone ive talked to is all for it why would you flame someones desire to custom fabricate something unique? I want to see this completed.

[95mbC280]

It's an awesome thought. But 1 issue, how would you deal with the rear end?

[zmatt]

Custom drive shaft. What we would have to do most likely is weld the end form the oem driveshaft on so it connects to the diff. In the future I would replace the rear with something that has good LSD options like an S14 rear end. But I couldn't afford to do both at the same time. The rear end would be expensive and a good LSD is over a grand.

[Sulaco]

Wait.

The bottom line depends entirely on exactly what w202 you're doing this to.

If you respond C36/C43 you will rightly die a horrible death one day at the hand of a rabid w202 devotee who has lusted for one of these rare, numbered, splendid machines.

If you're driving your average C220/C230/C280 then I say go for it. Cheap hp is cheap hp. I'm not a fan of anything GM, but I am a fan of cheap thrills. The w202 chassis is actually VERY good with high amounts of power. When given lots of hp and some lower suspension, the thrills come easy. Just talk to Speedybenz. He's a former professional racer and he went with the w202 for a reason.

But seriously, I can't stress enough how badly you SHOULD NOT do this to a C36 or C43. If that's what you have, SELL IT, and just buy a dead w202 with 1/5th of the profits from the sale. Hell, I have a fair-condition 95 C280 parts car I'd sell you for $400. It would make the PERFECT platform for an LS1 swap.

Otherwise, just search craigslist for a pre-update w202 with a blown head gasket. Can be had for less than a grand in most cases!

[zmatt]

I don't own an AMG, if I did then I wouldn't be worrying about power too much. Although a 55 swap in a C43 is not a bad idea. I'm doing this too a C230K.

[Sulaco]

Then I say go for it. However, if it's a good 230k, I'd still sell it and buy a dead w202. You could sell the 230k for 4-5k. Buy a dead C280 for 1k and spend 4k in a supreme LS1 swap and break even in the end! Plus you'd be pushing 400hp!

[triod3signs]

I say go for it!

[MikeD]

To have a powerful and fast w202, the money is worth it. I only wish I could add HP to my c280

[zmatt]

Yeah, I was thinking of also throwing in an LSD if quaife gets their unit finished, or swapping in a different rear end with an lsd and taking it drifting. When you have a benz on the track people tend to take notice.

[Markland556]

Where are you that you can get an LS1 swap for $1500???

Cheapest iv found is $4000 with the T56 6 speed tranny.

Pm me with more info! Id happily pay those prices and ship it here... Its for my little Nissan 240sx

[zmatt]

Thats what he said we could find one for. I talked to him about it more and after the fab work needed it would be a lot more expensive, he neglected to tell me that. I think i am going V8 swap. I can get a M113 and all the parts I need for much less and it all bolts in. I've put everything else on hold to save for it.

[Yujin]

You ARE completely mad...

[nhmercracer]

My thoughts exactly. What do you think is going to happen to my C280 when I get sick of dealing with MB's PIA ECU lockdown BS?

I used to make 500+ hp with my 455 Olds motors, with cast cranks and stock rods. I was involved in a Volvo Bertone Coupe / LS1 swap long ago. And these days, you can have an OBD11 V8 swap easy. The hardest part will be reverting things like the power windows back to a non-canbus system. But, there is plenty of hotrod wiring stuff to choose from. Should make the project feasible.

But as Sulaco so elegantly put it, don't destroy a desirable model.


Wait.

The bottom line depends entirely on exactly what w202 you're doing this to.

If you respond C36/C43 you will rightly die a horrible death one day at the hand of a rabid w202 devotee who has lusted for one of these rare, numbered, splendid machines.

If you're driving your average C220/C230/C280 then I say go for it. Cheap hp is cheap hp. I'm not a fan of anything GM, but I am a fan of cheap thrills. The w202 chassis is actually VERY good with high amounts of power. When given lots of hp and some lower suspension, the thrills come easy. Just talk to Speedybenz. He's a former professional racer and he went with the w202 for a reason.

But seriously, I can't stress enough how badly you SHOULD NOT do this to a C36 or C43. If that's what you have, SELL IT, and just buy a dead w202 with 1/5th of the profits from the sale. Hell, I have a fair-condition 95 C280 parts car I'd sell you for $400. It would make the PERFECT platform for an LS1 swap.

Otherwise, just search craigslist for a pre-update w202 with a blown head gasket. Can be had for less than a grand in most cases!

[zmatt]

You ARE completely mad...

My other car is a 1976 Fiat spider, and the old man wants to get a 911 as a project car as well.


My thoughts exactly. What do you think is going to happen to my C280 when I get sick of dealing with MB's PIA ECU lockdown BS?

I used to make 500+ hp with my 455 Olds motors, with cast cranks and stock rods. I was involved in a Volvo Bertone Coupe / LS1 swap long ago. And these days, you can have an OBD11 V8 swap easy. The hardest part will be reverting things like the power windows back to a non-canbus system. But, there is plenty of hotrod wiring stuff to choose from. Should make the project feasible.

But as Sulaco so elegantly put it, don't destroy a desirable model.

Getting all the electronics on the benz to work with something else will be a huge pain, and as time goes on it only gets harder the more integrated cars get. If it was OBD1 then it wouldn't be so bad. But when an ecu reset causes the windows to malfunction its a can of worms that just isn't worth it. Besides id rather have an over engineered amg v8 than a cheap n dirty sbc. The main lure of the sbc was the cost, and it looks like he shot his mouth off on that one. And don't worry about ruining a desirable 202, im using my C230. No amgs will be harmed, except of course for the already dead one which is donating its heart, and in that case im giving her a new lease on life.

[nhmercracer]

Right. Removal of all the MB electronic systems, while keeping an OBDII managed engine system would be the goal. I merely used the Olds engine as an example. These were budget builds of around $2200. This did not include cost of the motor. I wanted to underscore the possibilities with this kind of swap. I don't believe any domestic V-8 swap is going to be inexpensive.

[zmatt]

anyone have an idea what version Bosch motronic ecu the c230k uses? My google-fu has failed me. I have found some software that lets you flash bosch ecus but it isn't completely tested and i want to see if ours is supported.

[nhmercracer]

Matt, I would head to one of the Volvo boards, there is more info there regarding the Monotronic.

[zmatt]

Well I figured it out, the M111 at least, uses the Motronic ME 2.1 ecu. It looks like the Galletto (http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/wiki/index.php/Galletto_1260_Flashing_Cable) Can work with it. And Tuner pro can tune the maps for it. I ordered a cable and when it gets in I will be on the dyno getting a new tune and numbers. My fuel delivery is fubar right now so i am loosing a lot of power it will be interesting to see how much I gain from the tune.