Coilovers

[Dearlove]

just wondering if anyone has put coilovers in there car

done a bit of searching but all find is threads of people with H&R lowering springs that have done it for looks

[nelius]

yes cuz they are way too expensive. Most people just do cut springs and shocks. What are you looking to get of our car performance wise?

[JRE320]

I really don't know why people that I know who got coil over in the cars switch to regular H&R. They saying it's bcoz it's too bouncy and it don't coz too much.

[wichipong]

coilovers cost way too much than lowering springs so people tend to go for the cheaper route...

[JA5ON]

coilovers are great for a track car, but not so great for a daily driver, they ride harsh compared to springs

[Dearlove]

car is for 'running the hills' and have a bit of track time too, borderline daily driver (got the c36 for that)

just wanted them for their adjustability and ease of tuning

but yeah i guess if it's just lowering people are after why would they spend 3 times as much on coilovers

also, coilovers have springs too... ;)

[jnolte]

How can a w202 do coilovers they don't have the correct suspension

[JA5ON]

sure they do
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YELLOW-DPS-COILOVER-97-00-MB-C43-AMG-W202-SUSPENSION-/190506655759?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AC43+AMG&hash=item2c5b14e00f

[nelius]

How can a w202 do coilovers they don't have the correct suspension

what do you mean? lol

[Dearlove]

he means that the original suspension uses a split spring/shock

you just replace the shock with a coilover type and remove the spring

[jnolte]

I wouldn't trust a off/ rebranded item for such an important part of the car. Go with a reputable brand h&r?

[97C28O]

he means that the original suspension uses a split spring/shock

you just replace the shock with a coilover type and remove the spring

No you don't remove the spring.

Spring still stays on the car, usually a shorter version to accompany the shortened shock. The spring will have a threaded collar to adjust the height for our cars (same with the rear of my VW MkV). Some companies now use a adjustable shock body to adjust the height of the car without changing any rebound/dampening effects.

And no, coilovers do no ride stiff. For that reason, there are adjustable dampening, soft to stiff, it is up to you to choose from.

The only brand that make coilovers for our W202 is KW Suspension that I know of. KW Suspensions are great, but they are very pricey. I have KW Suspensions Variant 3 on my VW MkV and they ride great.

[JA5ON]

I have run coilovers on my Subarus and they run considerably stiffer than a strut and spring set up, coilovers on a daily drivin car for appearance reasons is overkill

[zmatt]

No you don't remove the spring.

Spring still stays on the car, usually a shorter version to accompany the shortened shock. The spring will have a threaded collar to adjust the height for our cars (same with the rear of my VW MkV). Some companies now use a adjustable shock body to adjust the height of the car without changing any rebound/dampening effects.

And no, coilovers do no ride stiff. For that reason, there are adjustable dampening, soft to stiff, it is up to you to choose from.

The only brand that make coilovers for our W202 is KW Suspension that I know of. KW Suspensions are great, but they are very pricey. I have KW Suspensions Variant 3 on my VW MkV and they ride great.

Bilstein also lists coilovers for our car.

[Dearlove]

No you don't remove the spring.

Spring still stays on the car, usually a shorter version to accompany the shortened shock. The spring will have a threaded collar to adjust the height for our cars (same with the rear of my VW MkV). Some companies now use a adjustable shock body to adjust the height of the car without changing any rebound/dampening effects.

And no, coilovers do no ride stiff. For that reason, there are adjustable dampening, soft to stiff, it is up to you to choose from.

The only brand that make coilovers for our W202 is KW Suspension that I know of. KW Suspensions are great, but they are very pricey. I have KW Suspensions Variant 3 on my VW MkV and they ride great.

then these are not true coilovers....

the rear cant convert to coilover without major mods, so the set up you explain is applicable there, on the fronts however you do remove the spring from the stock location

[Dearlove]

and for anyone that doesnt know, the word coilover is short for coil spring over shock absorber

[JA5ON]

the link I posted Are true coilovers, they are not hard to install and do not require major mods in the least

[Dearlove]

yeah, the ones you linked are a perfect example

[SD202]

How can a w202 do coilovers they don't have the correct suspension
was waiting for someone to point out that the W202 "coilovers" are nothing more than a lowering spring with a custom spring rate and sport struts with compression adjustment. The W202 cannot run a normal style coilover kit. its IRS and double wishbone up front. The kits come with a threaded spring perch that you put in place of your spring pad inside of the spring cup. And cost about half the price of the cars current value. The front would require modification to run if you buy a TRUE coilover kit one that is say universal for race applications KW and Bilstein offer these. You guys have obviously never seen The coilover kits currently offered for our cars in person I am assuming .. They look just like you bought a spring and strut combo unless you go with say KW v3's Full race dampening kit. then you're going to have to cut the spring cups off your chassis up front as well as cutting up the fender well to hold the pillow mount/ camber plate. PS. Coilovers ride STIFF AS F*** whoever said they dont. even when adjusted to full soft with dampening its nice and stiff . Got kw on my bros b5 a4 and they ride very firm even when not on full firm. just like a track suspension should.

[DRBC43AMG]

sure they do
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YELLOW-DPS-COILOVER-97-00-MB-C43-AMG-W202-SUSPENSION-/190506655759?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AC43+AMG&hash=item2c5b14e00f

Sorry I have to totally disagree. The suspension on ALL w202 are wishbones and not McPherson type struts. Coil overs fit McPherson struts only.
Concerning the link, the pictures are for a totally different setup. It says in the advert:
"...PRODUCT IMAGES
The product images displayed may not be specific to the make, model, and year car in this listing but are authentic Yellow Speed Racing parts. In addition, product images below may not reflect actual product shape, size, dimension, and color for this specific application. All product color details are provided in the specifications above...".

Even KW do not make coil overs for w202's. The spring and dampers are located and fixed separately

[Dearlove]

My R32 GTR (Nissan skyline) has double wishbone, same as this, and runs coilovers

i haven't had a good look under the car at the bottom of the shock attach yet, you could be right that they don't fit for some reason, and even when converting to coil over with mcpherson strut (190e) you dont need to cut off the spring perch

[c230]

I've been having this idea in my mind but would it be possible to replace the shocks with coil over type shocks?

[wichipong]

coilovers are expensive... 1000+ a kit... so if you're ready to spend that then go for it..

[Juju202]

H&R+spring pads+bilstein shocks combo is the best route. not only is it much cheaper than coilovers, but also handles fine. imo

[Dearlove]

oh no doubt it handles fine, i have that set up in my w201

however this car is for advertising my company = needs to be able to blow things off the track + still drive on the street when needed

[SD202]

oh no doubt it handles fine, i have that set up in my w201

however this car is for advertising my company = needs to be able to blow things off the track + still drive on the street when needed
coilovers are not going to help blow things off the track nor will any W202 for that matter. They are super reliable cars no doubt but. race cars. they are not.

[c230]

Well, you can find these from a vauxhall that go for about 250 dollars. It seems like they would fit the rear.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg24/scaled.php?server=24&filename=gaz3m.jpg&res=medium


They are super reliable cars no doubt but. race cars. they are not.

Well, this car is...http://www.drifted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ZJ6N0095-622x414.jpg

[zmatt]

coilovers are not going to help blow things off the track nor will any W202 for that matter. They are super reliable cars no doubt but. race cars. they are not.

not race cars?


http://www.gdtm.net/pokazuxa/DTMW202.jpg

I dunno about that. anything can be converted into a race car. It all depends on what your goal is and if you have the funds.



Sorry I have to totally disagree. The suspension on ALL w202 are wishbones and not McPherson type struts. Coil overs fit McPherson struts only.
Concerning the link, the pictures are for a totally different setup. It says in the advert:


That's not true, double wishbone can totally have coilovers. 90's hondas used double wishbone like mine and I had coilovers on it. Hell I've seen people run coilovers on the torsion bars on their old 911s, and on the solid axles on AE86 corollas. You can put coilovers on anything assuming you have the correct mounting hardware. I wouldn't rig a setup that isn't meant for you car though, the spring and shock rates would give you odd handling. Now whether or not they are offered is something else. lets get some KW V2 owners to post pics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Double_wishbone_suspension.jpg/300px-Double_wishbone_suspension.jpg

Pic of a coilover on a double wishbone setup.


EDIT:

I also wanted to point out that macpherson strut is not much more than a simplified double wishbone (or double a-arm) setup. It just uses one "a-arm" or wishbone instead of two.

[Dearlove]

SD202, have you ever driven a c36? considering its made for the road, with a few 'sacrifices' these cars will perform excellently on the track

thanks zmatt, pictures worth 1000 words

please people, if your not too sure about what your saying, please be careful what you say, can be very misleading for others

[zmatt]

No problem. Something to point about AMGs in general. The philosophy behind performance mercedes in general is to make an autobahn eater, not a track weapon. because of this the suspension is optimized for comfort and high speed stability, not quick corner. A good counter point would be BMW M cars. If you take an M3 and the AMG C class of the same era the C class will be a bit heavier, a bit more luxurious and have a larger motor with more torque. The BMW will be a bit lighter, a bit stiffer and will have a revvy engine with a meaty midrange. M cars also come with LSDs standard when AMGs tend not to. This gets to the heart of the different philosophies. Mercedes have always been luxury cars, AMGs are merely more powerful versions (save for a few exceptions such as the CLK DTM AMG which is a track weapon) BMW on the other hand has roots in motorcycle production and their cars focus more on handling.

This is one of the reasons you see BMWs in low level motorsport more often than benz's and why they have a better aftermarket following. Its a shame really because MBZ singlehandedly invented the sports sedan with BMW playing catch up with the M cars in the 80's. they really dropped the ball pushing that.


Now having said all of this there is no reason you cant turn a benz into a track weapon. The C class is obviously the best suited because of the size and weight and the same rules apply to our cars as any other that you want to put on the track. Remove weight and needless luxury, tune the engine, upgrade the suspension, install wider wheels with sport rubber, upgrade the brakes, and put in bucket seats with harnesses. The success of mercedes in touring car and endurance racing proves that the chassis are just as capable as any other and the multilink rear suspension in our cars is way ahead of its time. It shares it with the 190e which was the first road car to have it. The M104 and M111 engines are also pretty awesome. They are very stout and about the only disadvantage they have is that they don't offer the same aftermarket support as other ones. The M104 is likely every bit as good as a 2JZ.

The only thing keeping mercedes from being more popular in the tuning scene is because nobody wants to invest tuning them. Its a nasty cycle, nobody tunes them so no aftermarket parts are made and because no aftermarket parts are made nobody tunes them. That all changes if people actually decide to work on them.

[Dearlove]

well thats what im trying to achieve with my company, i have a 190e, w202 c180, w124 260e and c36, chose the c180 to promote the business only because the 190e isn't licenced

starting small, getting poly bushings made, sway bars, looking for someone that makes decent coilovers ect...

[zmatt]

good luck with that dude. keep us posted.

[SD202]

not race cars?


http://www.gdtm.net/pokazuxa/DTMW202.jpg

I dunno about that. anything can be converted into a race car. It all depends on what your goal is and if you have the funds.




That's not true, double wishbone can totally have coilovers. 90's hondas used double wishbone like mine and I had coilovers on it. Hell I've seen people run coilovers on the torsion bars on their old 911s, and on the solid axles on AE86 corollas. You can put coilovers on anything assuming you have the correct mounting hardware. I wouldn't rig a setup that isn't meant for you car though, the spring and shock rates would give you odd handling. Now whether or not they are offered is something else. lets get some KW V2 owners to post pics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Double_wishbone_suspension.jpg/300px-Double_wishbone_suspension.jpg

Pic of a coilover on a double wishbone setup.


EDIT:

I also wanted to point out that macpherson strut is not much more than a simplified double wishbone (or double a-arm) setup. It just uses one "a-arm" or wishbone instead of two.


SD202, have you ever driven a c36? considering its made for the road, with a few 'sacrifices' these cars will perform excellently on the track

thanks zmatt, pictures worth 1000 words

please people, if your not too sure about what your saying, please be careful what you say, can be very misleading for others


you're mixing apples and oranges when its comes to posting pictures of fully built DTM race cars. we're talking about coilovers on a daily driven street car with far less power and much more weight. And to answer you're question. No I have not driven a C36 but i have driven a C43 plenty as well as 210 E55 they are very fast cars IMO but still not close to what is posted above a true DTM race car. Also notice that the picture you posted of the suspension is not that of a W202 because there are not spring cups on the frame that would need to be cut off. Sorry if i misspoke i meant that on our chasis the double wishbone will not allow for true coilovers With deep enough pockets you can indeed put coilovers on any car and/or turn it into a race car . Its just not going to be easy to get true coilover suspension on a W202 without some fabrication. That is all i was alluding to, and that the public offered versions of W202s are not "race cars" unless built into them. and how is anyone being misleading. Im not talking about hondas etc. they are not w202s..... sorry for being so broad.

[zmatt]

I know there is a difference, and AMGs aren't race cars. You are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

My points are

1) 202s can be and have been race cars. The DTM car, while highly modified is still a 202 and still uses the same chassis. How hard core you want it to be depends on a lot of things such as time, money, goals, the race series and your skill. The DTM car had a 2.5L V6 that revved to 12k rpm, it was practically an F1 engine. But really all being a race car means if you race it. When I autox my 202 it's a race car. When you drift a 202, it's a race car. if you strip it down, and track prep it its definitely a race car. Something doesn't have to be DTM spec or even vaguely pro to be a race car.

2) Double wishbone suspension can use coilovers. To think otherwise is to be ignorant of how suspensions work. The 202 isn't setup that way stock, but there is no good reason it can't be. Also you don't need fabrication for coil overs on a 202, at least you shouldn't. Coilovers don't require a chassis mounted spring cup, I've installed enough to know that. Most cars that they make kits for don't have the springs over the shocks anyway and they do just fine, again just like in my Honda which also used double wishbones. I'm also aware that the suspension isn't a 202's, I posted it to demonstrate double wishbone can use coilovers.


I dont want to shoot you down dude, but I don't think you understand suspensions that well. A lot of cars don't have spring cups at all and manage. Hell I helped build an AE86 for the top class in autox this past year with a fully adjustable set and it doesn't have cups on the shock towers. Coilovers are self contained. End of story. The only mounting to speak of is the same on a regular shock. The bolt on the bottom and the shock tower mounts. The spring sits on perches that are integral to the coilover. This is why you can convert non coilover cars. People do it every day.

http://www.deutschnine.com/mm5/graphics/00000002/kw-variante-3-coilover-suspension-kit-03M.jpg

Just demonstrating coilovers are self contained. i know that isn't a w202. That doesn't matter.


http://www.superduty-hq.com/images/products/detail/solidaxle3.jpg

Hell you can put coilovers on solid axles if you want.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Vorshlag-Test-Pilots/Jeff-Larson-996-Porsche-911-C2/DSC2626/539924178_8UpCD-L.jpg

Coilovers on multilink, in this cash a porsche.


FACT: Coilovers can go on any car that uses shocks with shock towers, which is just about any car. Its that main reason its so popular. You can design basically one suspension kit for any car in the world and all you have to do is adjust the rates , dampers and rebounds to work well with the car. it makes life stupid easy on suspension companies and is the reason good suspension kits are available for just about every car, even stupid ones.

[JRE320]

H&R+spring pads+bilstein shocks combo is the best route. not only is it much cheaper than coilovers, but also handles fine. imo

Totally agree!!!!

[zmatt]

I agree as well. most people dont need more than lowering springs and shocks.

[SD202]

yeah you're absolutely right dude. I don't understand suspensions..... ROFL hahahaha not to shoot you down dude but I don't think you understand how forum threads work. You are coming back at me with unrelated pictures and talking about your Honda civic good for you ???? do you want a cookie....and not to mention reiterating what ive already said that coilovers can be put on any car with deep enough pockets. Think what you want about my knowledge/ experience but you're still just mixing up apples and oranges posting pics of fully fabricated solid axle, 4 link rear trophy trucks and fully built DTM race cars that most likely have thousands of dollars into them as well as a multimillion dollar support team standing behind em..... You're stuck on one little thing that I failed to go in depth to explain/ misspoke. Sorta like a nagging wife . But here let me reiterate myself even though you already have for me plenty. I was being very broad when I previously spoke for that I am sorry if i was in anyway misleading to anyone I'm sorry for that as well..... but the fact still stands. OUR cars (W202 chassis ONLY) out the box are NOT. and you CAN NOT mount TRUE race coilover suspension on w202's Double wishbone setup WITHOUT modification & $$$ due to space restrictions and current design. have u ever looked under the hood of a w202 ? or into your fender wells.... where would the pillow mount go ? op first order of business custom fabbed fender wells............but i digress . I'm well aware that TRUE coilovers do not need to set in a spring cup they are coil...overs...a self contained unit..... in fact I just installed a set of really nice Stassis ( made by KW) coilovers on my brother b5 A4. 1.8TQM I have also done coilover installs on EG & EJ civics. Done suspension on W203. W210s, E36 BMW, and a s10 chevy blazer oh and of course our beloved 202's. not to brag but im also a paraplegic paralyzed from the belly button down have been for 8 yrs. And Im still under there doing my own work on suspension that i dont understand etc.....Dont tell me what you think i understand..... Oh and Considering i was paralyzed in a off road racing accident I'de venture to say i know a little something about suspensions and racing maybe just a little... I'm well aware of what coilovers are and how suspension works. I don't mean to shoot you down dude but i dont think you understand what a race car really is. Just because you auto X or drift a car or street race for that matter does not make it a "race car" whose misunderstanding things now ? I can drift my bone stock 4 speed auto C280 does that mean i now own a race car ? HELL NO. according to you it does. If i take the 43 out and slide it around my neighborhood has it become a race car ? I dont think it has... but i guess we are all entitled to our own thoughts opinions and understandings of how the world goes round right ?

[zmatt]

really? going to use the fact that you are paralyzed to some how make your argument better? Please. comeback with real facts. I don't care how much you think you know, you don't have to modify shit for coilovers to fit on the W202. And as far as your claim of spending gobs and gobs of money. KW's kit is pretty reasonable for what it is. Google image search is a pain as searching for any pictures related to W202 modding is a crap shoot. But I don't have the time to pick apart your straw mans and your half arguments.


I'd like to request the mods close this thread. It's going downhill from here.

[SD202]

The mods don't need to close anything here. I'm not using it to argue really. I mean its a discussion board..... Just pointing out experience. There is nothing to argue other than how little you seem to know about your own car... other than what you've Googled....Anyhow, they are facts, sorry about it. The "self contained unit" would not clear the spring cup.... because W202's have those... and very little room to begin with. Don't forget about clearing the wishbone though, would probably have to move the pivot point where the strut mounts to the LCA . Other than that sure you could slap a nice 36 way fully adjustable race coilover right in there, no sweat. Or maybe some Chris King w/remote reservoirs you would have like 30 inches of down travel on a W202! No modification needed. You don't have time to pick apart my straws ? Yet you chose to do so previously... well I got nothing but time to waste when I'm on the internet. so be my guest.

[c230]

Just pointing out experience.

Racing cars is different from building cars.


Don't forget about clearing the wishbone though, would probably have to move the pivot point where the strut mounts to the LCA .

Building mustangs over the years the upper control arm of a 65-73 mustang reminds me of the lower control arm on the front of our w202s. Also, thinking about it I do have a 69 mustang and stock w202 springs, I'll see how the dimensions fit.

You can modify the lower control arm and this kit to make it fit where the spring would go. I would also reinforce the spring perch.

I already gave a solution for the rear, this would be the front.

http://i.imgur.com/4AL54.jpg

[c180essex]

im actually saving for a set of coilovers for my c180 im using a german make called ta technix there £600 because i like cars slammed when i get them fitted i will post pictures up springs and shocks i have atm i prefer coilovers just because i can go even lower than my current 40mm hopfully a 100mm drop onto my new jap wheels

[Vetruck]

Wow, reading some of these posts goes to show that ignorance is wide spread throughout car forums. Said that people can not find good tech in car specific foruns without people soewing uneducated responses and ego's.

Has anyone even looked at the cars suspension points and clearances? A quality coilover setup will not fit under the rear of these cars without rubbing the spring on the rear inner tower walls. Chassis intergrity at first glance looks decent, but you are also moving the load point off the spring pad can and onto the tower- duration cycles may oon fact crack or warp the tower under excessive coilover loads without reinforcement- I have seen this happen on many different makes and types of vehicles.

As for race cars? anything can be altered to be race worthy with alot of cutting and fabricating- I could make an ice cream truck fast (and have the reputation to back it I might add ;)- peop[le will get to know me in due time, but ffor now will let that rest). Question is, is the car in stock form worth all the time and money to make it track worthy? My opinion is hell no- As Zmatt put it very well, these cars are nothing more than luxo boxes- even the AMGs push hard and loose the frontend bite when pressed in tight transitions. I've walked away from AMG officials with their heads shaking going "who the f^&k was that guy". I would never pay $$$$$$$ for an AMG63 of any of the 3 styles- they were all terrible to short track. A Vette at half its price would eat one for lunch and even stock Vettes are no prize (great bang for the buck- but no prize on a road course).

Anyways, the best bang for the buck so far seems to be conventional shocks for these cars (I go nothing less than Koni monotubes) and the rear 5 link will take alot of work in parts additions to maintain proper geometry under moderate lowering of the chassis. Ill be addressing these points in due time on here when I gather more data in the next few weeks. Ill need to remove the rear springs and bump the rear 5 link suspension through its travel arch to see how much the upper 2 arms will need to be shortened and adjustments added to maintain the factory solid link specs when lowered.

You can call me Dean :)

[Charliebukol]

coil over is for mcpherson strut type ,
maybe they mean adjustable suspension for a arm type suspension which consists of a shock and spring with a threaded spring perch to adjust the height of the car body , and yes ,you can put coil over kits on any car but would it be worth it to choping it up and spend that much just to say you have coil overs