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Vetruck
08-16-2012, 08:37 AM
Been on here for a day- this website seems dead- lack of activity. What is the popular tech website (aftermarket wise- I am a suspension guru) for w202's?

I come off a board website called TGO that is written up in hot rod magazine as the #1 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird website in the world- I am their suspension tech guru and happen to be a former NASCAR Supertruck crewcheif as well as raced Vettes my entire life- currently starting on a 911 Widebdy Porsche racecar. I think ill be bored here- any help pointing me where to go?

zmatt
08-16-2012, 08:44 AM
For W202's this is it. We're a small community. There are larger general Mercedes forums but this is the biggest one for 202s.

Vetruck
08-16-2012, 09:13 AM
So really no one is doing anyting with them. It appears the only guy I have seen with any real modification to his car is this SpeedBenz. I see his name on a few sites. Is he still around? It appears not. THese cars need help in the suspension bigtime. They have the typical notorious Mercedes push. Such a trick little rear 5 link, but the geometry needs attention. I will study it more and collect data on it with my gauges sometime in the next few weeks- I have my hands full all of a sudden picking up another racecar this weekend- so the project garage will filled with that and something else and this little car will just be fitted with Konis for now until I can get the geometry sorted for lowering it

560
Let me introduce myself-My 2009 NASCAR Supertruck team in the winners circle at Toyota Speedway. I am the tall guy 2nd from the right holding the helmet. I ran this team as Crewcheif as well as have raced Camaro's, Vettes, and now Porsches for many years.

Dean

zmatt
08-17-2012, 08:25 AM
As far as suspension mods go some people will install KW coilover systems but that's about as advanced as it gets. Any help and expertise you can bring would be great.

Vetruck
08-17-2012, 09:56 AM
As far as suspension mods go some people will install KW coilover systems but that's about as advanced as it gets. Any help and expertise you can bring would be great.

Have you seen coilovers on the rear of a c220 or c280? It does not look like room for the coil. The shock sits very tight near the chassis upper shock tower mount and I believe their is no way the coilover spring would not rub against it. THis is why I am choosing to go the lowering route of what I have seen Speedbenz do. I will fab my own adjustable swivel spring perches and use Hypercoil race springs. Since this is a little c220- Ill start with a 500lb front and a 750 rear. Speedbenz shows a 600lb front on his V8 and an 800lb rear- springs are a cheap experiment and alot of the manufacturers will trade them in on rate changes within a reasonable amount of purchase time.

I have a new 911 widebody coming on Sunday from Santa Rosa to OC that I will be taking apart the next few weeks to start getting ready for race season next year, after that I will get to the Merc. I am doing interior parts on it first, then suspension, wheels, and finally possible a little body modifications using a few different mix and match kits. I am looking at the S-tuning front clip. and Prior Design rockers and rear clip but if I decide on those I will do a little glass wrok to clean them up and take off some of the space age crap.

Since the car is older, most people unless very familiar with 94-00 w202's do not know or remeber what a Brabus w202 was. Easy to make a little classy mockup of one with my own personality to make it an exotic little car. Almost finished with the brabus interior stuff so when the valet opens it they really think its something different when the inside has touches of custom also- but very classy touches- not tacky. Going with a chrome center console that sould be here very soon as well as the pedals, alum floor plate, lock pins, etc. Had custom bereber floormats from Llyods made and they turned out beautifel and look 10 times better than the factory Merc mats- had them custom embroidered also. It'll be a fun little grocery getter when I get finished with it. Here's a shot of one of my other daily drivers- I call it Vetruck (vette truck) that is a 152 mph NASCAR in disguise and will carry 4000 lb payloads in the bed(yes its still a truck with a complete custom front suspesion with altered geometry mount points I hand built). I do not drive anything stock, not even on the street.
562
I'd eventually ike to spray the Merc the same color (Pewter Pearl Metallic) when I do the body stuff- I acquired this car for a song- got lots of financial room to work with since I practically stole it on purschase

edit addition- And, I have decide to just go Koni Yellows. You can't go wrong with good ol Konis for everyday street use. I have my hands full on enough aftermarket take apart race shocks sending out for rebuilds every year- I made that mistake on Vetruck running 8 of them but really have no choice on that heavy monster

zmatt
08-17-2012, 03:28 PM
Have you seen coilovers on the rear of a c220 or c280? It does not look like room for the coil. The shock sits very tight near the chassis upper shock tower mount and I believe their is no way the coilover spring would not rub against it. THis is why I am choosing to go the lowering route of what I have seen Speedbenz do. I will fab my own adjustable swivel spring perches and use Hypercoil race springs. Since this is a little c220- Ill start with a 500lb front and a 750 rear. Speedbenz shows a 600lb front on his V8 and an 800lb rear- springs are a cheap experiment and alot of the manufacturers will trade them in on rate changes within a reasonable amount of purchase time.

I have a new 911 widebody coming on Sunday from Santa Rosa to OC that I will be taking apart the next few weeks to start getting ready for race season next year, after that I will get to the Merc. I am doing interior parts on it first, then suspension, wheels, and finally possible a little body modifications using a few different mix and match kits. I am looking at the S-tuning front clip. and Prior Design rockers and rear clip but if I decide on those I will do a little glass wrok to clean them up and take off some of the space age crap.

Since the car is older, most people unless very familiar with 94-00 w202's do not know or remeber what a Brabus w202 was. Easy to make a little classy mockup of one with my own personality to make it an exotic little car. Almost finished with the brabus interior stuff so when the valet opens it they really think its something different when the inside has touches of custom also- but very classy touches- not tacky. Going with a chrome center console that sould be here very soon as well as the pedals, alum floor plate, lock pins, etc. Had custom bereber floormats from Llyods made and they turned out beautifel and look 10 times better than the factory Merc mats- had them custom embroidered also. It'll be a fun little grocery getter when I get finished with it. Here's a shot of one of my other daily drivers- I call it Vetruck (vette truck) that is a 152 mph NASCAR in disguise and will carry 4000 lb payloads in the bed(yes its still a truck with a complete custom front suspesion with altered geometry mount points I hand built). I do not drive anything stock, not even on the street.
562
I'd eventually ike to spray the Merc the same color (Pewter Pearl Metallic) when I do the body stuff- I acquired this car for a song- got lots of financial room to work with since I practically stole it on purschase

edit addition- And, I have decide to just go Koni Yellows. You can't go wrong with good ol Konis for everyday street use. I have my hands full on enough aftermarket take apart race shocks sending out for rebuilds every year- I made that mistake on Vetruck running 8 of them but really have no choice on that heavy monster


The coil over kits available have the rear shocks and springs separate since the spring can't fit on the shock's perch but it is still fully adjustable and considered a coil over kit by the manufacturer.
http://thmotorsports.com/kw_suspension/kw_variant_2_coilovers/15225018/i-68532.aspx

I think they are referred to as such since the front is still a true coilover and its more or less synonymous with fully adjustable suspension now a days.


I have a new 911 widebody coming on Sunday from Santa Rosa to OC that I will be taking apart the next few weeks to start getting ready for race season next year, after that I will get to the Merc. I am doing interior parts on it first, then suspension, wheels, and finally possible a little body modifications using a few different mix and match kits. I am looking at the S-tuning front clip. and Prior Design rockers and rear clip but if I decide on those I will do a little glass wrok to clean them up and take off some of the space age crap.

There are a few decent body kits avalible, most are copies of the AMG kits but I have seen others from good names like Reiger. There is also a member who is working on a DTM inspired kit.


Since the car is older, most people unless very familiar with 94-00 w202's do not know or remeber what a Brabus w202 was.

The Brabus tuned versions are worshiped around here. There is one in the US with a bored and stroked V8 making something like 425BHP. I'll see if i can dig up a thread on it. Unfortunately I talked to Brabus USA two weeks ago and they don't modify out of production cars so we wont see any more made.


nd, I have decide to just go Koni Yellows. You can't go wrong with good ol Konis for everyday street use. I have my hands full on enough aftermarket take apart race shocks sending out for rebuilds every year- I made that mistake on Vetruck running 8 of them but really have no choice on that heavy monster

I run Konis on my Fiat spider and I love them, great shocks. It seems a lot of people match those with the H&R lowering springs. Both Eibach and H&R make sway bar kits as well. I imagine a thicker rear sway bar will help with the push from the front end by making the rear stiffer.
http://thmotorsports.com/eibach/eibach_anti_roll_kit/2532320/i-54011.aspx
http://thmotorsports.com/hr/hr_sway_bars/707492/i-239727.aspx

I've tracked my C230K a few times and my impressions are it understeers with the power off but can easily go into power oversteer which is pretty controllable. Others have used them for drifting with good results.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EUuT3ow4BQU/TsKDyZWJQQI/AAAAAAAACGo/rsYnlRSjp8I/s1600/w202_red_drift_1.jpg


IMO what this car needs the most in the handling department is the selection and tunability that other imports get from the aftermarket and we badly need an affordable off the shelf limited slip differential. You can only do so much with an open diff and its one of the reasons the M3 handles better I think. At least the steering is good.

Vetruck
08-17-2012, 06:28 PM
THose rears in that KW lit are call weight jackers, not coilovers. No wonder I could not find coilovers for the rear of these cars even though I see them listed- marketing idiots in my opinion (I see so many parts fabricator vendors, etc that are good with metal but know nothing about suspension geometry- bunch of copycat idiots- UMI products is a good example of this. I have publically humiliated them a few times).

I am never a fan of mechanically locking up a suspension with larger swaybars- its a bandaid fix to poor roll center engineering. These cars are designed to push for luxo box safety ratings. If the dcar were loose from the factory, too many novice drivers would ass around the car in a panic and induce side or rear impact causing low crash test ratings. THey have to make the car stay in forward motion for impact and airbag deployment. Problem lyes where there is no adjustmetn for racing type/ spirited drving specs. Ill ave to play with the car and see where I need to alter the roll centers to get it to rotate better as well as reduce positive roll rates so as to retain smaller swaybar for mechanical grip. I am not looking for a racecar, but if I can correct the geometry easy enough it then a positive byproduct and will make heads spin. I am a whiz at chassis dynamics.

Please don;t tell me you distroy your car drifting, there is not a drift car alive that has not had to replace front and rear bumper carnaige to gain spectator cheers...lol. Our local small track venue here in So Calif is full of these visually challanged cars and shoestring budgets of glory. https://www.facebook.com/#!/amp.motorsportspark

zmatt
08-17-2012, 09:33 PM
THose rears in that KW lit are call weight jackers, not coilovers. No wonder I could not find coilovers for the rear of these cars even though I see them listed- marketing idiots in my opinion (I see so many parts fabricator vendors, etc that are good with metal but know nothing about suspension geometry- bunch of copycat idiots- UMI products is a good example of this. I have publically humiliated them a few times).

I've never heard that term before....


I am never a fan of mechanically locking up a suspension with larger swaybars- its a bandaid fix to poor roll center engineering. These cars are designed to push for luxo box safety ratings. If the dcar were loose from the factory, too many novice drivers would ass around the car in a panic and induce side or rear impact causing low crash test ratings. THey have to make the car stay in forward motion for impact and airbag deployment. Problem lyes where there is no adjustmetn for racing type/ spirited drving specs. Ill ave to play with the car and see where I need to alter the roll centers to get it to rotate better as well as reduce positive roll rates so as to retain smaller swaybar for mechanical grip. I am not looking for a racecar, but if I can correct the geometry easy enough it then a positive byproduct and will make heads spin. I am a whiz at chassis dynamics.

good point.


Please don;t tell me you distroy your car drifting, there is not a drift car alive that has not had to replace front and rear bumper carnaige to gain spectator cheers...lol. Our local small track venue here in So Calif is full of these visually challanged cars and shoestring budgets of glory. https://www.facebook.com/#!/amp.motorsportspark

no not the benz. I was just making the point that can oversteer and do so controllably.

Vetruck
08-17-2012, 11:11 PM
Here's something just like it for a Camaro that utilizes Coilover struts (not shown) up front, but convention spring weight jacks in the rear with separate shock mounts
http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=20/CA=67

They are for scaling a car or setting cross weights on conventional type springs.

This is what that "SpeedyBenz" guy has on his car, they are swivel type weight jacks/ or called adjustable spring perches. in NASCAR we call them weight jacks (as well as Indy) Indy cars have hydraulic incockpit adjustable units- very expensive trick shit

zmatt
08-18-2012, 07:49 AM
Oh yeah ground control, those are pretty popular in the japanese import scene form what I understand.

Denlasoul
08-18-2012, 02:14 PM
Hi Vetruck,

speedybenz is an old school Member here on the Board. I do not believe he is very active and possibly has gone on to other things. He has not responded to any of my emails in awhile.

Anyway, if you would like a little more infor about the suspension he built, the best person to contact would be c55mo. He speedybenz sold him a complete suspension setup.

I see you are a suspension guru. I'll be talking to you soon. ;)

Vetruck
08-18-2012, 11:12 PM
Thank you for the info. What I have learned in the last few days of questions and internet research I am leaning towards going back now to the Ksport kit assuming the fronts are coilovers and the rears are weght jackers. I was opting to stay away after physically inspecting the rear chassis area seeing there is no adequate room for a rear coilover, but with Zmatts info on the KW's that they use weight jacks, I will assume Ksprt will do the same. Ksport should be pleanty adequate for a spirited street use and I can change to whatever spring choices I desice to get good spring length and ride quality- hopefully I can go to larger coil length barrel springs for a more consistant rate through suspension travel.

I'll order them next month and if they are not what I expect I will return them and go the next route.