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View Full Version : new/upgraded harmonic balancer for our cars ?



C280Sportster
10-28-2003, 05:25 PM
After reading about all the harmonic balancer problems 1998-2000 V6s (and V8s ?) have been having, I've been wondering if there exists some type of improved balancer for our engines.

Can any HP be gained here ?

Renn 208
10-28-2003, 05:42 PM
is that only for 98-00? cause I want to make sure that I'm not in danger of the crank pulley flying off and taking out a good chunk of my car sometime in the future.

As for performance upgrades...Speedy, didn't you have a purple Crank pulley on the C280?

C280Sportster
10-28-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Renn 208
is that only for 98-00? cause I want to make sure that I'm not in danger of the crank pulley flying off and taking out a good chunk of my car sometime in the future.

As for performance upgrades...Speedy, didn't you have a purple Crank pulley on the C280?

What year do you have ? The number on the bad harmonic balancer is 112-035-00-00.

Yes, Speedy did change his, didn't he...Hmmm. Where can we order a lighter crankshaft pully with a new balancer on it ?

speedybenz
10-28-2003, 07:16 PM
I am thinking that the V6 could use just a light weight alum pulley like I had, but I would see if you could get it made say 12% smaller so that it would underdrive all the accessories so you not only get to remove 6 pounds off the crank but reduce the speed of the water pump, Alt, etc.

But the V8's are not balanced as well internally so they need a Harmonic Balancer. But It may be possible to have a workable balancer that would be slightly smaller to underdrive the accessorys. I have seen something like I am talking about for the new 4.6 Corbra Mustangs.

Something to look into for sure.

Jeff

sf280
10-28-2003, 07:25 PM
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=63512

Lots of good stuff on that thread. Looks like there is an updated part, and yes, mine went out and it was like 2 grand in damage - thank god for my Starmark Warranty

C280Sportster
10-29-2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
I am thinking that the V6 could use just a light weight alum pulley like I had, but I would see if you could get it made say 12% smaller so that it would underdrive all the accessories so you not only get to remove 6 pounds off the crank but reduce the speed of the water pump, Alt, etc.

But the V8's are not balanced as well internally so they need a Harmonic Balancer. But It may be possible to have a workable balancer that would be slightly smaller to underdrive the accessorys. I have seen something like I am talking about for the new 4.6 Corbra Mustangs.

Something to look into for sure.

Jeff

Where can I order the crank pully you had and is it safe ?

Does the harmonic balancer bolt on to the crank pully. What I'm planning is to replace the balancer before it goes bad and do the pully at the same time. Speedy, I was planning on getting evo's underdrive pullies, but with a smaller crank pully I wouldn't need those, right ? Unless someone can't make a smaller crank for the V6s or MB's updated harmonic balancer won't fit.

I've read that every pound you lose from the crank pully weight, you gain 3 HP, now I'm not sure I believe that.

So, if I can save 6 pounds from a crank pully, that's 18 HP...sounds great.

Here is a random link I found (for subarus) : http://www.imprezars.com/pulleys.htm

they say:
"Most authorities agree that 85% of the gains of an under drive pulley come from losing weight, not the reduction in size. According to a recent article in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine, each 1 lb lost from the pulley is the equivalent of a 2.7hp increase at the crank. These three pulley sets are composed of a lightweight crank, power steering and alternator pulley with a combined weight that is 4 lbs lighter than the just the stock crank pulley alone, at only 1 lb 11 oz for the entire 3 pulley set vs 5 3/4lb for the stock crank pulley."

In this case they not only have a lighter crank pully, but the other pully weigh less (and are smaller) as well. I'm still not sure about the power gained, notice how they don't tell you the weight of the crank pully alone and they don't tell you the overall real HP gained.

Here is another:

"Here's a great value in a lightweight crank pulley from the CNC specialists at Autospeed Performance. Weighing in at only 1.5 pounds (vs. 5.6 pounds for the stock pulley!), this CNC-machined pulley is Type 3 hard-anodized for ultimate longevity. The lightening holes are added after the black anodizing to give it a sweet two-tone look.

Note that this is NOT an underdrive pulley. It's stock size, so your accessories will turn the same speed and work just as well. Horsepower increase will vary by gearing, but in first gear the effect would be like shedding 65 pounds of weight from the car.

Note: The factory crank pulley incorporates a harmonic dampener, and the billet aluminum pulley does not. Removing the harmonic dampener may have an effect on the lifespan of the engine."

Hmm, this speaks for itself. The NOTE part is interesting.


I'll keep doing more research.

speedybenz
10-29-2003, 08:28 AM
I got my pulley from Klemann but I don not think they have anymore. It did make the car a little quicker, not earth shattering but quicker.

I would take your stock pulley off and put the updated part on and then send the old one to a company that will make you a new pulley that will underdrive the whole system.

Almost any machine shop could also handle this job.

I noticed no increase in vibration that would cause the engine to have a shortend life span.

Jeff

ricerokets4life
11-27-2003, 06:58 PM
i just got my crankshaft pulley replaced a couple days ago. it cost $100-200 (i dont know exactly because they mixed it in with a maintenance for a total of $900) with labor. the mechanic supposedly put the new, lighter, OEM pulley in, something like the 30 or 35 series?? i saw the old one though and it was heavy as anything.

moebiusgold
11-29-2003, 07:55 AM
The thing about going to a smaller vibration damper is as follows:
Of course these are my opinions but they are based on mostly SB chev non flywheeled (of course) sprint cars and a bunch more american v-8's. The damper is for torsional vibrations not out of balance vibrations per say. It may be an externally balanced setup (not for max perf applications though). So, they don't make any "shaking vibrations" but the crank is litterly twisting one end relative to the other at its natural frequencies. Just like a bell ringing but the sound is overwhelmed by everything else until things twist enough to get mechanical parts out of time enough to cause power / valve clearance / etc. problems. In top fuel dragsters the cranks are twist something like 30 Degree. Camshafts are ground to compensate for this.
Off track. If you want the crank (and lots a other parts) to last, use the best damper you can buy :D
Remember, these vibrations are present all of the time but WE can't feel them! The harder you run your motor the more this is happening. No combustion knock is good at this point too, it's one of the hammers hitting the bell.
By best I mean the lightest largest Dia. (important for for inertia, goes up with 4X the dia., which is the avaiable counteracting or calancing force) highest dampening medium unit that will fit. The rubber, urethane, or silicon fluid is where the energy is taken out.
I put 120 races on a fluid damper (6.5 In. Dia.) crank shaft before it finally started cracking. By then I had replaced most all of the other engine components multiple times. People run with out a damper but they toss their stuff bout once a season cuz its shot.
That one of many problems with sprint car racing. Weight is everything and we're talking about ~6 Lbs. here.:(
When I first saw the Damper on my 280 SEL years ago I thought OMG this is huge:( . When I change the crank seal years later I find out that it is Aluminum! MB caught me off guard again!
I can put it this way. I worked for GM once upon a time but I like the way MB's are engineered.:D :D