Starting issues

[taz069]

I am starting to hate this!!!!! I"ve got a code p-04441 or can't remember. It applies to the purge valve under the windshield washer jug or the bank 2 o2 sensor. Since the code was read I did pull the exhaust and punch the cat's out{it is the of the 4 wire pre heated type)
!! The code did not go away!! Now my crank position sensor is within tolerance per ohm reading. But as far as i know the plug wires and the coil packs have never been changed. Honestly the car will start the first time right on the key being turned. The second is a bugger!!!!!!!!!!!! Ngk wants 125$ for 3 wires!!! Not counting boots'!!! Any thoughts'''' Thanks all!!!!

[Vetruck]

Hi David. Basically the bank 2 o2 sensor is the one after the catalitic convertor. What it does is simply reads stotch above and below 14.7:1 fuel ratio. it counts how many passes above and below the stotch line. It wants to remain close to flatline and not change as much as the front "bank 1" o2 sensor is sensing. By gutting the cat it is actually not changing as much because the cat is not getting the gasses hot to fire off unburned fuel- thus the "bank 2"is more reading the same as "bank 1" o2.

As for starting issues- does the car start and run the first start and stay running? or is it stalling then not restarting?

My issue recently with my car not starting properly was attributed to it starting and dying a few times then would stay running. I found out my "green" relay in the truck had worked itself loose (vibration). Once I firmly plugged that back into place I never had any more issues with it.

Dean

[taz069]

Thanks V. Sorry for the late reply tis the season for buying other things for the family. Soo my lil c280 is kinda of bookshelved again. I did check the fuel pump relay and it seems secure, I did remove and reinstall just for good measure. Now after the holiday going to purchase some plug wires and new coils. Seeing the only maitainece that has been done to the car seems to be me. And that is sad for a 96 being neglected by the previous owner. Any how. Merry Christmas to all. And thanks again V.

[taz069]

I think I found the problem!! Coils not grounded good!! When I had the head rebuilt I sand blasted and stripped the valve cover down to bare aluminum. And I put a couple coats of clear high temp paint on it. Last night I ran a ground wire to all three coils using eyelets that I crimped on, I placed each eyelet under each coil and bolted the tail to the block. As of last night the lil c280 started 15 plus times and not one hickup. Will be unhooking the battery this afternoon to reset the computer. Maybe I finally found the culprit!!!

[Vetruck]

Pesky little gremlins- glad you found it. That is one of those things that is easily overlooked painting something and messing up conductivity.

[taz069]

Now for the other problem! !! In rerouting my 3 plug wires I found someone else rewired the coils!!!! With speaker wires! !!! G f'ing d I am pissed! Thank god I can solve the problem! The asses didn't even use a crimp tool!! If this was a shop job I'd kill em! Gonna try and send some pics of the coil plugs!

[Mike51809]

You are having a hell of a time with all that!

[taz069]

918

[mbsickness]

Wow. I'm surprised the car ran at all. Looks like a wiring harness failure and someone tried the cheap way out. Check the rest of your harness for deteriorating wires.

[taz069]

Yes sir they did a # on it. I did trace back the 3 wires that power the coils so far it is rotten. Just glad to be an electrician now, Hehe. I should have it up and running again in a day or so. Already have the 14 gauge wire and all other needed items. I'll be soldering some of this back together. Will keep you all posted!!

[taz069]

To all the wise guys out there!!!! I'M rewiring this as it was done! Here be my question? Is the center post the positive?? Or is the outside edge positive? When I say positive the lead that comes off the edu(brain) seems to be connected to the outside edge not the center post! Amy help!!!

[taz069]

Ok it is wired and running again!!!! I didn't see any other wires that were cracked, rotten or brittle. Maybe it will last another 100k. Have a good one.

[dzywicki]

I had to rewire my harness last winter so I feel your pain. I also had to do the throttle actuator and the lower transmission harness. When I tore everything down and saw the condition of the wires, I really had no idea how the car ran. The transmission harness is easy, the throttle actuator is a pain since it's soldered wire into a PCB.

[taz069]

Ok dz does the throttle actuator have much to do with the starting of the car?? Mine is being a booger again! Once it does start I get a rattling from the butterfly baffle on the intake i.e. the plastic tube runners. It is a vacumm operated device this I do know. I might have a vacumm leak and i just can't pin point it. Once the car starts after a few attempts and warms up it does fine. It can be turned off and back on no problems. That butterfly flapper seems to control how the car runs on partial throttle verses full throttle. It swaps positions via vacum pressure. Low pressure it is in the position for better low end response and high rpm it is 180 off for better high rpm air flow. But like i said it is making a fluttering sound. And it is audiable. But where is the throttle actuator and what purpose does it serve. Thanks bud.

[dzywicki]

Not sure about the actuator and starting. I do know I forgot to hook the actuator back to the main harness one time that I was testing. The car still started, but would not respond to the accelerator. There is a vacuum tube attached in there. The throttle seems to be part manual control (i.e. connected by a rod to the throttle assembly) and part electronic control. I do have ASR so it may be different. There is a valve in the intake that opens above a certian RPM and allows intake air to go to all 6 cylinders. Prior to that opening, I think it routs one intake to the front 3 cylinders and one to the rear 3 cylinders. It has an electric connector.
The actuator is easy to take off, but a bitch to repair the wires. The insulation on mine was completely rotten.

Here is my repair thread on benzworld : http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202-c-class/1676430-throttle-actuator-rewire.html

[taz069]

Holy cow!!!!! That was a bad looking mess. Will check on mine this afternoon. Seeing some of the same symtoms in mine. Partial,slow hesitation. Sometimes fine others not so good. You give it the gas and it just won't rev or go seems to be stuck in idle mode, after a few seconds it will set you back when it does catch. I put your benzworld pics in my favorites for future reference. I truely hope this is not another one of my problems but with everything else I have had to tackle more than likely so. Will keep ya posted. Thanks again.

[taz069]

DZ did your throttle plug cable look bad on the outside?? Cracked split just checked out mine and from the outside looks great. Cause i really, really don't want to remove the intake runners to get that booger out!! Would be a major pain in the arse!! Now the plug end is easy enough to get to. Might you have the point to point contacts that i can check with my ohm/volt meter?? If so would you know the proper values of each point of contact. Thanks bud.

[dzywicki]

DZ did your throttle plug cable look bad on the outside?? Cracked split just checked out mine and from the outside looks great. Cause i really, really don't want to remove the intake runners to get that booger out!! Would be a major pain in the arse!! Now the plug end is easy enough to get to. Might you have the point to point contacts that i can check with my ohm/volt meter?? If so would you know the proper values of each point of contact. Thanks bud.

My apologies for not replying to this in January. I typically go on benzworld. The wiring will all look fine from the outside. The only way to properly repair it is to take it out. You don't have to take the intake runners out. I came across the ohm readings for point to point somewhere on the benzworld site. There are a few places that have a diagnostics sequence to check resistance when the throttle is open/closed etc. I just replaced each wire and everything worked fine when I put it back. There are 2 tricky parts. Getting the plug out out from where the wiring goes into the throttle body. Removing the soldered joints at the printed circuit board. I removed the old wire by desoldering the joint tot he printed circuit board and then used a small drill bit on a dremel tool to get rid of the rest of the old solder. From there it was easy. I soldered new wires to the printed circuit board. Soldered into the plug end (I left a stub of wire to the connector). I used some silicone caulk in the hole to the throttle body since I had broken the plastic plug getting it out.