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00kompressor
10-29-2003, 03:04 PM
does anyone know what is the brightess bulb that the factory wiring can take?
thanks for any help. ;)

nokia8860
10-29-2003, 05:36 PM
To be safe it should be the OEM recommendation.

It only cost a few bucks more to add relays to really give your higher wattage bulbs the juice it needs to shine, no pun intended, if you are thinking of putting in higher than OEM bulbs.

00kompressor
10-29-2003, 06:51 PM
with the relay installed what is the highest watt bulb it can accept?

1998K
10-29-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by 00kompressor
with the relay installed what is the highest watt bulb it can accept?


It' depend of relay and cable size you'll install. Someone that have already done this work (other car) utilized relay sized for 12 A (one relay for each couple of bulb) with 1.5 mm cable size. I'm also interested to do this modification (my goal is 100 W bulb) but I'd like to have before more information/confirmation from a car electrician. My basic question are:
1) Are the factory cable already provided with relay? I think no, but I'd like a confirmation. Does the cabling is separated from left bulb and right bulb?
2) Does the modification will influence the "bulb out" module. i.e. do I have to change also that size cable?
3) Where can I take the 12V power? from front fuse box? I want to mantain as much as possible a factory cabling passage!

Hoping my question are clear, may be I'm boring, but I want to be sure before any electrical modification!

Hoping someone more qualified may help me and 00kompressor!

hi

nokia8860
10-30-2003, 01:41 PM
Usally most cars headlight power goes thru the light switch. So you would want to add a relay to each bulb.

They are also wired seperate, hence a fuse for left low beam and right low beam.

I do not believe you will have a bulb out indicator for this modification. FYI, unlike when I switched out my fathers E39 halogen to e-code hid/angle eyes that triggered a bulb out, when I swapped out my halogen bulbs for my current hid setup there is no bulb out indicator.

If this presents a problem for you there is a simple fix which I have applied to my fathers E39. A 1watt 1ohm resistor hooked up with a relay in line with the positive terminal of the low beam. Basically in the off position the computer will sense the resistance of the resistor which will make it think there is a bulb that is operative. When the power is switched on the relay cuts the power to the resistor reventing over loading the resistor with the current needed to power up the lights.

You can take the 12v from the fuse box. Find an empty slot to use and you can make it look very factory.

Hopes this helps.

1998K
10-31-2003, 12:23 AM
Thanks a lot nokia8860 for your detailed reply. To look factory, in my intention, is to maintain working the "lamp failure" feature also after the modification (i.e. to signalize the 100W bulb failure), your explanation seems to permit it but, it's not so clear to me, sorry for this! Does the relay you refer is the one that is installed for the 100W modification? Or is a further, dedicated one?
My worries comes after seeing the W202 electric circuit (the russian link I've posted in another post) in which there is indicated cable connection for main beams: for low beam bulb cable comes from "exterior lamp failure module", instead for high beam bulb cable comes directly from fuse box. But it's referred to old H4 bulb, mine in separated in H7-H1, and may be circuit is quite different with also H1 high beam cable that comes from same "exterior lamp failure module".
Hoping my explanation is clear, I was thinking to add relays and increase sections of all the cable, so also to those from "exterior lamp failure module".

But may be that, with your suggested modification it's not necessary maintaining the feature of bulb out indicator! Please confirm.
I take 12v from fuse box with 1.5 mm diameter cable from an empty slot. Do you suggest to utilize a relay for each bulb or for each couple of main/low beam? Consequently please how much fuse size will be? I'm quite sure to install relay after fuse and as much as possible near headlamp, in order to command relay directly from factory bulb connection (i'm wondering a configuration with a relay for each bulb). With this modification, it seems that factory fuse size for main beam should be decreased!

I know, may be I seem too boring.
Hi

bobcat
11-01-2003, 04:35 AM
Please do NOT put 100w H1 or H7 bulbs in your headlight...



I have a set of original W202(model year 1998) headlights in my basement.... :(

I replaced the original 55w bulbs with four 100w bulbs made by Hella. All four H1 connectors (high beam and foglight) melted from the extreme heat after just 2 days... guess MB connectors are not made to tolerate 100w bulbs... :(


photo provided upon request... :)

nokia8860
11-01-2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by bobcat
Please do NOT put 100w H1 or H7 bulbs in your headlight...



I have a set of original W202(model year 1998) headlights in my basement.... :(

I replaced the original 55w bulbs with four 100w bulbs made by Hella. All four H1 connectors (high beam and foglight) melted from the extreme heat after just 2 days... guess MB connectors are not made to tolerate 100w bulbs... :(


photo provided upon request... :)

This is one of the major reasons why you do not put higer wattage bulbs in your headlights without using relays. Remember relays will take the strain off your OEM wires and draw current directly from the battery.

1998k: Use a relays for each bulb. Your stock fuse should remai the same and you should use a 25-30amp fuse for your relays.

I do not belive you will have an exterior light failure because I am using xenon bulbs that have no filament that would give a resistance to "fool" the car in thinking there is a bulb.

You are on the right path in your thinking of how to hook up the relays. I hope I was able to answer your questions. Please let me know if you need further help.

GDawgC220
11-01-2003, 07:23 AM
how would you go about wiring a relay to the stock setup now? thanks for your help.

-G-

nokia8860
11-01-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by GDawgC220
how would you go about wiring a relay to the stock setup now? thanks for your help.

-G-

Click here as the site has been up for almost a year now and the database is full of stuff (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=647&highlight=relay) :D :D :D


OT: wow almost a year!!!!!! 12-19-2002!!!!!!! woo hoo woo hoo

bobcat
11-01-2003, 08:17 AM
I did use a relay which provided power to the 100W bulbs.
(but kept the original MB connector to plug in the bulbs)

unfortunately, that not only melted the connector, which
I somewhat expected, it also was too hot for the housing... :(
(the reflective part around the housing had a dark burn mark
directly above the bulb, the reflector itself also melted...)

On the other hand, this could be cause by the fact that
the highbeam lights were on for at least 2 to 3 hours per
night. (my daily return commute was 3 hours each way at night
on dark, almost-traffic-less rural highways)

my currently set up is orignal MB xenon headlights(parts for C43
bought from the dealer's part dept) , with the highbeams and
foglight beams coverted to HID. (6-HID setup)

nokia8860
11-01-2003, 10:49 AM
bobcat: and the OEM is the best way to go :D

Melting of the housing is not uncommon as other veh that attempt higher wattage bulbs do melt the housing as well. So while it does take prolong exposure, such in your case with the highbeams, it is a possibilty when running hotter bulbs

1998K
11-04-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by nokia8860
I do not belive you will have an exterior light failure because I am using xenon bulbs that have no filament that would give a resistance to "fool" the car in thinking there is a bulb.
.

Dear nokia8860, I've read somewhere that W202 equipped with xenon feature have been up-dated as computer/programm, in order to recognize this! To avoid "bulb out" feature!

Thanks a lot in any case for all your input that I've appreciated a lot, but, after seeing Bobcat posts, I'm quite sure to do nothing. I'll utilize same 55W bulb as PIAA or other similar European brand!

Hi

1998K
11-10-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by bobcat
[b]


photo provided upon request... :)

I missed this! Please it'll be much appreciated.

For your information, I'm studing this link

http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/relays.html

It seems that, a well done connection directly from the battery/alternator will make difference, avoiding voltage drop. It seems that over wattage bulbs (i.e. 100W) are not so necessary if a good cabling is assured to the headlamp bulbs!

Without melting problem! ...hoping!

1998K
11-24-2003, 03:31 AM
to Nokia8860 or other expert member.

Yesterday I performed some test, as suggested in http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/relays/relays.html

I measured about 0.9 V of voltage drop in my low beam, so I utilized a relay for a temporary test. No voltage drop with bigger cable section (10 gauge), it seems that this make more light.
Please I'm wondering to define location of relay installation and new cable passage into headlamp, maintaining tightness of it!

If dimension will permit, may I install relay into headlamp between bulbs and rear cover (that black plastic cover)?

Unfortunately bulb out feature is on (relay load is too small to avoid it!):(

Thanks for any help

1998K
11-24-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by nokia8860
If this presents a problem for you there is a simple fix which I have applied to my fathers E39. A 1watt 1ohm resistor hooked up with a relay in line with the positive terminal of the low beam. Basically in the off position the computer will sense the resistance of the resistor which will make it think there is a bulb that is operative. When the power is switched on the relay cuts the power to the resistor reventing over loading the resistor with the current needed to power up the lights.


Please nokia8860, be so kind to clarify me this! Mine "bulb-out" is always "on"!

I'll appreciate a lot

jnolte
11-24-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by 1998K
Please nokia8860, be so kind to clarify me this! Mine "bulb-out" is always "on"!

I'll appreciate a lot

where is NOkia??? I havent seen him on forever? He made this site but hes MIA!!

nokia8860
11-26-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by 1998K
Please nokia8860, be so kind to clarify me this! Mine "bulb-out" is always "on"!

I'll appreciate a lot

i will post back with the instructions.

nokia8860
11-26-2003, 10:41 AM
This is what I did to my fathers E39 when I upgraded his stock lighting to HID/Angel eyes and the bulb out feature was triggered.

Purchase 2 bosch 87a relay, its the one with the middle pin as the 87 doesnt have the middle pin. I bought mines at Talbotco (http://www.talbotco.com). (the owner is familar with BMW owners buying this relay for this purpose.)

Nex use a quality sand block 1 ohm 1 watt (you can use anything that is less than 10 watts).

Turning over the relay from top to bottom left to right the pins are 87, 86, 87a, 85, 30.

Connect the relay between 86 and 87a, then to ground.

Connect the pin between 85 and 30, then to +.

Remember this is inline to what you are doing already.

1998K
11-27-2003, 12:41 AM
Thanks a lot nokia8860 I've appreciated a lot your efforts to help me.

To take advantage of your help, please be informed that in my headlamp up-grading, I'm planning to increase cable section (gauge 10) also for internal headlamps cable! I think it's better.
Do you think I've to utilize some special cable to resist to high temperature? I'm looking for cable that I've utilized to connect amplifier (gauge 10 as I said)

Hi:)

nokia8860
11-28-2003, 01:23 PM
You can change all the wires in your headlights to 10 gauge but its really not needed. Adding the light relay as you have found, is all you need for better lighting.

1998K
11-30-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by nokia8860
You can change all the wires in your headlights to 10 gauge but its really not needed. Adding the light relay as you have found, is all you need for better lighting.

Ok, half work has been done. Left side is improved with relay. I can see the difference respect right stock side.
My question about gauge 10 cable inside headlamp was related not as a "resistance" matter of that short cable, but as I intend to utilize 100 W bulbs (H1 high and H7 low) I was wondering about "melting" problems of stock internal headlamp wires and connector: after reading bobcat post!:rolleyes:

Please I've installed relay in engine bay area (under washer bottle for left side to be clear), do I've to protect them and relevant contacts? Or that relay are designed to work in that condition?

Thanks a lot for all the help I've found here.

:)

BenzMeister
12-03-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by 00kompressor
does anyone know what is the brightess bulb that the factory wiring can take?
thanks for any help. ;)

The brightest bulb I have found for my 99 C280 is Sylvania Silver Star, they are 55W 12 volt, but their H7 and H1 are brighter then any other stock watts bulbs. I did try H1 !00W 12V on the highbeams but they kept are blowing the fuse. Try the Silver star I think you will like them.

http://www.sylvania.com/home_us.htm, here is the web address, they have an online store that is running a special on Silver Star headlights and turn signals ST bulbs, I also bought a pair of ther rear turn signal silver stars, man they are bright.

:)

GDawgC220
12-03-2003, 03:27 PM
After a few weeks of using the Philips Vision Pluses, they burn white now. Much more light on the road as well, so I can see further down the road, which is good. Well worth the $30 i spent for the pair.

-G-

1998K
12-03-2003, 11:52 PM
I've heard very good comments about FRAAL. It seems is a german brand. Actually I'm looking for them.

1998K
12-10-2003, 11:05 AM
question for nokia8860 or other kind guy.

considering modification with relay and gauge 10 cable (so melting problem should be avoided) do you think I can have some problem with stock generator utilizing 100W bulb for low and high beam?

Obviously light are on only with running engine.

Please your information on the matter will be much appreciated.

Hi

nokia8860
12-10-2003, 11:09 AM
I dont see a problem with you stock generator and you should be fine.

Now be sure to post pictures of your changers so others can benifit :)

oh and happy lighting!

1998K
12-10-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by nokia8860
I dont see a problem with you stock generator and you should be fine.

Now be sure to post pictures of your changers so others can benifit :)

oh and happy lighting!

your reply was so fast!

So you belive that stock generator will not be over carghed and it will charge correctly the battery.

Thanks a lot for this.

About picture posting, please I apologize because my poor potentiality: I do not own digital photo, at the moment work is still in progress, and I'm lookin for a friend that can help me some photo (after that I ask some help for my first post).

Apologizing for this I'm full available for any "written" :( description/help for everyone that ask me.

Hi

nokia8860
12-10-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by 1998K
So you belive that stock generator will not be over carghed and it will charge correctly the battery.


yep :)

1998K
12-10-2003, 11:50 AM
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

nokia8860
12-11-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by 1998K
I do not own digital photo

Thats ok. Buy a disposable camera and when you are done send it to me and I will convert it to digital :)

1998K
12-15-2003, 06:55 AM
HEY NOKIA8860,,

I have performed some few post of mentioned modification.
I've it on floppy and,...ehm,...how to say! I'm embarassed!

It'll be my first picture:embarr:

how to post?

I've done a search but can't find!

nokia8860
12-16-2003, 07:13 AM
email them to me

1998K
12-17-2003, 10:28 PM
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http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/album06/Mvc_003s.sized.jpg

http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/album06/Mvc_004s.sized.jpg

http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/album06/Mvc_005s.sized.jpg

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