I've heard rumors the 190e 5spd Getrag manual tranny will bolt up to our cars, is this true???

[vixen_w202]

I was helping a buddy on his 1968 BMW 2002 1.6L today, and when we took a break for lunch he mentioned he ran across that it might be possible to do a manual swap in my car using the getrag 190e 5spd transmission. When I got home, I looked them up and you can pick them up for relatively cheap. I've decided I'm going to leave the motor on my car stock, but I would like to at least switch over to a manual to have a little more fun with what power I have. It is also really frustrating in my car because whenever I do some spirited driving, the auto box just can't figure out what gear it wants to be in....and I would really like that control back. It's also scary when you're driving at high speeds around corners and the transmission decides to downshift....that one time almost had the back end slide out of control on me. So for how I drive the car, I want to do this for enjoyment as well as safety. I talked to another bimmer friend today and he says if I go that route I will have to change out my gear ratio in my differential for a higher one otherwise my car is going to be very slow.

I have local euro buddies who are willing to help me once I commit, but I did wanted to confirm from others before I seriously thought about this and start heading this direction if indeed this will bolt on.

Thanks


P.S. Also, is there any possible way to convert our transmissions to sort of like a semi-auto? I've seen it done on domestics...

[jc1kz]

I'm no expert, far from it, but I know our cars have a trans ECU... so going manual you might want to see what other parts are needed, definitly the clutch pledals, probably a new/different drive shaft, the harness for manual trans.....etc etc etc....good luck on the venture if you decide to take it on....Actually member RemoLexi is doing something along this line auto to manual conversion

http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?17871-Remolexi-More-MODS!!

[RemoLexi]

I have this all done for the last 15k road miles ...

96' and older do no have an ETC (electronic trans computer)

You will need everything including the flywheel, clutch set, gearbox, driveline needs to be extended at a driveline shop, yes the diff needs to be replaced otherwise this all is gonna drive wack.

You will need a floor shifter assembly, shift links with all new bushings and clips, floor pedal assemblies for the clutch and brake pedals and I don't think w201 are the same, you will need clutch master and slave cylinders. There's a line that taps into your brake fluid reservoir and that line is somewhat expensive $40 per foot (because it's for brake fluid) you will need a hard line from the clutch master cylinder to the slave.

All of these I had to source and gather worldwide. Gearbox alone was $1200 so if you can get a complete package it's much cheaper.

Oh and since your in CA I would call BAR and ask them before you do anything if they will allow you to set and appointment and inspect your car/ issue you a carb legal sticker otherwise your fucked an wont pass smog.

[nd4spd13]

Why not just use the parts from a 202..... :confused:

[RemoLexi]

You can.

Just that we don't have any manual 202's in the states.

Also, I am not 100% sure when the year split occurred, but the crank sensor pick up was different for 96 and older (again I am not 100%)

[vixen_w202]

I'm willing to do this, but I need to know exactly what type of getrag from the 190e I am looking for, what years to search/pull from so I'm not getting one that won't link up, what kind of aftermarket flywheel I should get, what slave cylinder I need, what interior parts I'll need to source, what gear ratio I should upgrade to or diff I should swap out for, etc. I have a ton of driveshaft shops in town, so getting that altered won't be a biggie.

[RemoLexi]

I wouldn't even want that old ass gearbox to be honest. Get one out of an SLK230k instead (00-01')

But I can't say for sure if the flywheel out of an SLK has the same crank signal notches.

[Dearlove]

the 190e only had one kind of getrag

[RemoLexi]

If you are not mechanically inclined enough to understand how all of this works and what parts you will need, your euro buddies probably won't give a rats ass about figuring all of this out. This is not something for backyard-bob to construct, you're going to need a lift, professional tools ect.

[vixen_w202]

Thanks for the encouragement asshat. I have enough brains to understand that this will take more effort than putting my hand into my underwear and scratching my balls. As a matter of fact, you might have been slightly inexperienced like me once....so why don't you try to give a little encouragement and say take it slow, talk to more experienced forum members and do your research rather than show me how *unworthy* I am for such a project.

Go fuck yourself. I don't need your approval to do whatever the hell I want to my car. I'm still going to do this even if it takes months to plan.

[vixen_w202]

Look after I wrote that I'm sorry just I come here for advice, help and encouragement when doing stuff to my car. Just because someone is new and slightly inexperienced does not completely make them incapable to do larger and more complex projects later on. I am still learning, but I am slowly becoming less reliant on needing people to assist me on projects.....

[RemoLexi]

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. But I never told you to 'go fuck yourself'.

Like i said, just know how it all works together beforehand. Not everything off a 201 fits a 202.

[Pagz]

Good lesson! When pissed off turn off computer and come back next day..there's many times I wish I did that xD

If your keen to do a manual conversion the easiest way would be to import all the parts from a LHD manual W202, any other gearbox is going to require custom work,so instead of the car being off the road for 2 months it will be more like 9!. When I had my 230k connected to star there were options to select manual trans instead of auto(I assume for models which came with both trans), pretty sure some of the BMW's are setup like this
also. You would have to do some homework on this to make sure you don't need the manual's ECU as well because the factory manual C280's were really rare!!.

[RemoLexi]

That is correct: For the C230k You have the option to select coding in the ME and tell it if it's manual or automatic. Basically if manual is selected, the ME ignores all CAN signals from the ETC as if its not there at all.

For my 97' US spec C36, there was no option in ME to select manual or auto like the C230k due to the fact C36 were never released manual. I had to have custom variant coding done to comply with CA smog laws and to not have a check engine light with ETC fault codes. My ME does not communicate at all with my ETC which is still plugged in but doing nothing.

Vixen has a 96' US spec C280 with a 4-speed auto from what he describes, those DO NOT have an ETC at all.. Those have vacuum solenoids and are very easy to bypass.

[Pagz]

Cool, it was so long ago now I wasn't sure If I was just seeing things!.

Ah yes ,Completely forgot the pre-updates were VDO and vac operated! you will need the three tooth Flywheel.

was the C36 the only I6 to get updated electronics?

[RemoLexi]

Paul, in 97' all the US spec 202 got a type 6 5-speed auto with updated electronics. C220's were replaced with N/a C230. C280's were still inline 6 until 98'. C36 in 97' had the new electronics, drive by wire instead of the full-cable, and the new steering wheel (same as C43)

In 98' that's when all of the updated bumpers, tail lights, door cards, switches and overhead control panals were changed.

In my 36 I bought all new updated door panals because they are much nicer & tinted my tails to look like the 98' +

You guys in NZ got the updates at the same time but we in the states register our cars differently, for example a production date of 08/96 would be registered as a 97'

My C36 is 05/97 and is still 97', but a C43 with a date of 11/97 would be a 98' already and have all the updates and be fully titled as a 98'

[RemoLexi]

But I am baffled as to why you had a C230k that was a 97?! We didn't get C230 kompressors until 99-00. In 98 all of our C230 were N/a but wore updated bumpers

[Dearlove]

little topic, when did the keys change? '97?

[RemoLexi]

I really thought I have seen late 96' models with DAS 2. I wish someone would come forward with a picture of their ignition lock for me to see but nobody even seems to know the difference between DAS 1, 2 and 3 being the smart keys.

97 for sure all had DAS 2 switchblade keys

98+ all had DAS 3

[Christopher]

my 96 and 97 has the same switch blades, and my 96 c36 inline 6 doesnt have etm its vdo vacuumed

[vixen_w202]

You know guys, I've thought about this alternative as well....because it would utilize an option either more available or using the transmission I already have:

In a lot of domestic drag/street cars, specifically using the 700R4 transmission.....there are shops, kits and companies that can take that particular auto transmission and make it a permanent semi manual. I know this because on my still incomplete 1967 Pontiac GTO project car, we had a local performance tranny shop build us a 700R4 with a manual valve body. What I sorta like about this idea is it offers the manual input of a manual transmission by keeping it in a specific gear, but not having to worry about a clutch. I have no idea if this could be done on my transmission, but honestly the main reason why I've stayed away from manual cars is because I have some health problems that make it difficult for me to drive even without a ton of driver interface devices, and several doctors have advised me against having a fully manual car because of this very reason. To me, having a semi-auto transmission would provide me the best of both worlds. I even could get a drag racing ratchet-style shifter to control the gears at speed:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-81120/overview/

Just so I don't get trolled....I already know my tranny kinda has a *semi auto* feature where you can throw it down to 2nd and then up to 3rd and then drive...but that's still kind of detached to me and when I'm driving aggressively it's kinda difficult/annoying to throw the gears down and up with that annoying shift gate plate.



Before I got into imports/euros I dipped my foot into the water with domestics, so some of the technology I'm talking about it from that realm. It'd be cool if I could do something more like this though.

[Dearlove]

the 5 speed auto that came on the 97+ cars can be made into a 'fully manual' box too

[RemoLexi]

Theres nothing more fun then being able to heel toe into a turn and come out with some oversteer.

[zmatt]

I don't know about the I6 models, but you can pop in a 6spd from an SLK into the C230k. The 4spd autos are 4Gtronic and are not electronic, too old for that. If you want to go manual in an I6 you may want to look into the gearboxes from 190e 2.6 or 300e's. They did have manuals but are very rare. I have seen 2 manual 300e's ever. Given the BS with the electronics it would probably be better off to ditch the ecu and go standalone. Either way it's not easy.

[RemoLexi]

What BS with electronics ? On a 96 and older you just said it yourself it's 4Gtronic and not electronic.

On a 96 and older the ME (ECU) does not control transmission at all nor will it know if you put manual instead of auto.

97' + you can to code the ME but still not that hard

[vixen_w202]

This is kinda off topic for this thread, but lately I've started a bunch of threads and I didn't want to spam with another.

Financially I'm slowly starting to get closer to the ability to do this conversion, but I won't do it unless I do it right. I want a limited slip diff, but I know finding one from the right car is not going to be easy. I'm trying to keep costs to do this under 3-3.5k, and I remember RemoLexi said something about there being diffs that could possibly used from non-benz cars. I have no idea how intensive this might be....but if I could get a limited slip without blowing my budget while doing this it would make me really happy.