What is the problem?? WONT START

[SnowwhiteMerc]

ok guys i need help asap on my issue, here is whats going on, on monday i woke up to go to school and when i went to leave, it didnt want to start on the first turn,i took out the key, i gave it a couple seconds placed it backed in and it started, went to school, when i went to leave from school turned on just fine, on Tuesday woke up to go to school and the same thing happened to where it was just wanted to start but it just didnt till about 3 min of intermittently trying to start, on Wednesday surprisingly no issue started on first try, on Thursday back to the same thing except it took long than 5 minutes of trying, on friday, no luck, it just does not want to start, ... a side note when it did turn on thursday i noticed, it sort of felt like it wanted to stall for about 2 seconds than it came to a steady idle,

THINGS THAT I KNOW SO FAR FROM TRYING TO TROUBLESHOOT,

1. NO CODES COME UP WHEN I SCANNED
2. FUEL PUMP IS TURNING ON =, I HAD MY DAD TURN THE KEY (NOT TO IGNITION) AND I HEAR THAT DISTINCT NOISE THAT IT MAKES
3. NO OIL IN MY PLUGS
4. NO CEL ON
5. Serpertine belt moves along the pulleys when trying to turn it on,


:(:(I want to fix this issue today, but because no codes came up i have no direction, i read on it being the CPS but i dont know, im not a mechanic, although im good with my hands and have high level of logic

[SnowwhiteMerc]

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202-c-class/1419105-1998-c230-wont-start-sometimes-help.html
is the thread that lead me to believe this is my issue, i will do a DIY for the forum to give back, when the sensor comes in monday morning, i cant seem to find a DIY on our W202'S..

[melk]

Definitely sounds like classic crankshaft sensor failure in my experience...

[SnowwhiteMerc]

Definitely sounds like classic crankshaft sensor failure in my experience...

hey thanks for responding melk, seems like your pretty familiar with these cars, do you know exactly where the CPS is located, from the link i posted on the previous comment i did look at the diagram ( around mid page) that a poster posted, but when i looked for my CPS i found that it seems to sit around 3/4 to the end of the engine block, its the only plug i seen with 1 bolt that holds it down, any direction would help, thanks

[melk]

I've changed the CPS on my Jeep, where it was located on top of the transmission bellhousing. But as far as this goes I'm really not too sure, sorry! Good luck and keep us updated...

[melk]

you can dig through here and see if you can find it:

http://www.everythingbenz.com/z/mtype/w202-202-mercedes-schematics-drawings

[SnowwhiteMerc]

you can dig through here and see if you can find it:

http://www.everythingbenz.com/z/mtype/w202-202-mercedes-schematics-drawings

thanks melk, http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/19N/type/111/subtype/974/group/15/subgr//vers//imgno/9 this is the closets i got to it, ill be on tomorrow letting you know the results of putting in the new switch

[SnowwhiteMerc]

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/252022-99-c280-cranks-but-will-not-start.html more info on this matter and helpful information.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

Actual pics and installation instructions w202 members!!!! :) on jc98c230 post, click on pdf file and save!!

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202-c-class/1527826-1998-c230-stalling-crankshaft-position-sensor.html

[SnowwhiteMerc]

so i changed the crps and the car is still doing the same grrrrrr:(

[Scary-Larry]

My 98 C280 had a very similar problem, and it was my crankshaft sensor that had gone bad. The car would stall every now and then upon cold start, then one day at 2:00am on the highway coming back from NYC the gas pedal stopped working and the transmission was shifting down really hard. The car shutdown in the middle lane on i95 and I had made the awful mistake of actually going 55mph- I was just able to get into the breakdown lane with the breaks and steering hardly working (since there was no power). I thought it was the fuel pump at first like you suspected in your situation, but it was in fact the crankshaft sensor.

In your situation, I am surprised that you are still having the problem.

This might not be it, but the MAF sensor could be the problem. The first time it broke on my car, it was stalling on cold start sometimes and lacked performance or boosted performance. When the MAF sensor actually went dead, the car would not start at all or would hardly start. I honestly doubt that this is the case for you since you didn't have symptoms of unusual performance or gas mileage.

Somebody here claimed it was the head gasket, but I don't see how that could be: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202-c-class/1419105-1998-c230-wont-start-sometimes-help.html

I will post if I think of anything else, good luck man.

[melk]

Damn man, sorry to hear it didn't fix it for you. What's next do you think? MAF seems to cause all sorts of issues with these it seems.

How hard was the install btw?

[SnowwhiteMerc]

My 98 C280 had a very similar problem, and it was my crankshaft sensor that had gone bad. The car would stall every now and then upon cold start, then one day at 2:00am on the highway coming back from NYC the gas pedal stopped working and the transmission was shifting down really hard. The car shutdown in the middle lane on i95 and I had made the awful mistake of actually going 55mph- I was just able to get into the breakdown lane with the breaks and steering hardly working (since there was no power). I thought it was the fuel pump at first like you suspected in your situation, but it was in fact the crankshaft sensor.

In your situation, I am surprised that you are still having the problem.

This might not be it, but the MAF sensor could be the problem. The first time it broke on my car, it was stalling on cold start sometimes and lacked performance or boosted performance. When the MAF sensor actually went dead, the car would not start at all or would hardly start. I honestly doubt that this is the case for you since you didn't have symptoms of unusual performance or gas mileage.

Somebody here claimed it was the head gasket, but I don't see how that could be: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w202-c-class/1419105-1998-c230-wont-start-sometimes-help.html

I will post if I think of anything else, good luck man.


thank you for sharing scary-lary, unfortunately my situation is a little different after,going back and fourth to the shop, (the mechanics there where very helpful in giving me troubleshooting steps, and the last step i did was spray some starting fluid in to the air intake valve and boom the car started and quickly dies out, meaning that there is in deed a fuel problem, the car has since been towed to my local mercedes mechanic a great guy by the way, and he is going to troubleshit the exact problem so i can avoid spending money that is not needed to be spent, i bought a fuel relay and a cps and it did not resolve my issue, i will follow up on this thread and state ; exact issue and resolution, along with pricing of parts and labor.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

Damn man, sorry to hear it didn't fix it for you. What's next do you think? MAF seems to cause all sorts of issues with these it seems.

How hard was the install btw?

im actually working on a diy melk so look out for it today

[Scary-Larry]

thank you for sharing scary-lary, unfortunately my situation is a little different after,going back and fourth to the shop, (the mechanics there where very helpful in giving me troubleshooting steps, and the last step i did was spray some starting fluid in to the air intake valve and boom the car started and quickly dies out, meaning that there is in deed a fuel problem, the car has since been towed to my local mercedes mechanic a great guy by the way, and he is going to troubleshit the exact problem so i can avoid spending money that is not needed to be spent, i bought a fuel relay and a cps and it did not resolve my issue, i will follow up on this thread and state ; exact issue and resolution, along with pricing of parts and labor.

I'm glad to help and it is the least I can do. The first time I blew the MAF sensor my friend's father, who was helping me fix the problem, did the same thing- he sprayed some starting fluid (or choke cleaner...something like that) into the intake and my dying car came from 500rpm to 5,000rpm. Then we took it to a garage and they did some test of their own to find that it was the MAF sensor.

I really hope your issue is resolved quickly and most inexpensive at this point. I know it is a real nightmare to go through this kind of thing due to costs, time, stress, worries, and getting a ride from others. When my car was out of commission, I had to drive my housemate's Mom's Toyota! And it had Beanie Babies on the dash! It was really nice of her to let me drive it; she was very kind.

Please let me know what the outcome is and if you have any questions. Good luck.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

I'm glad to help and it is the least I can do. The first time I blew the MAF sensor my friend's father, who was helping me fix the problem, did the same thing- he sprayed some starting fluid (or choke cleaner...something like that) into the intake and my dying car came from 500rpm to 5,000rpm. Then we took it to a garage and they did some test of their own to find that it was the MAF sensor.

I really hope your issue is resolved quickly and most inexpensive at this point. I know it is a real nightmare to go through this kind of thing due to costs, time, stress, worries, and getting a ride from others. When my car was out of commission, I had to drive my housemate's Mom's Toyota! And it had Beanie Babies on the dash! It was really nice of her to let me drive it; she was very kind.

Please let me know what the outcome is and if you have any questions. Good luck.


definitely will do, do you know of any diy on the fuel pump in case it is it?

[Scary-Larry]

In the event that the fuel pump has gone bad, this is all the information I can provide on the topic:

My friend's father and I did change the fuel pump before the MAF sensor and it was a bit of a job. If you do this, I recommend you change the fuel filter while you are working with the pump just to save stress in the future (depending on the mileage).


First we got the car in the air (we just lifted it by the rear passenger's side wheel). he then removed the plastic protection cover covering the fuel pump and filter.

There were some hoses connected to the pump that carried the gasoline; be careful not to spill out the fuel tank and take note of where the hoses go to. It is hard to explain which hoses went where since they are all the same color, so tracing them to their original locations is important in this step and I recommend that if you do this yourself that you have someone experienced with such help you out since it is quite dangerous and confusing. Don't forget that some of the hoses there are just for the fuel filter.

After taking the hoses off the pump, the device was unscrewed off the chassis that it was connected to. We then had traced the power cable for it into the trunk area in which it was plugged in. The trunk carpet floor can be simply removed and there is another platform that covers the electrical area that the pump and other components are plugged into.

Removing, and later replacing, the fuel pump will require re-fitting in this annoying rubber gasket that seals the hole for the fuel pump wire. Upon tracing the wire into the trunk from under the car will reveal this seal.

Make sure that the hoses are properly inserted into the correct plugs including the fuel filter when you place a new pump onto the chassis. As annoying as the seal is for the cord, make sure it is fitted to prevent moisture from getting into the electric area. Don't forget to replace the plastic shield as well- mine was ruined one day from a bottle rocket some little brats put in the street one late night, but if it had not been there I could have had a car fire or been killed. Also, make sure the hoses are fitted tight with the braces and if the hoses are brittle or cracked, you should get new ones and can easily get then cheap since they are general hoses and not OEM only.



Hopefully you will not have to do all this, but if you do I wish you luck and please make sure you have someone with you when you do this.

These images are not so good, but they are better than nothing I suppose:
Fuel lines:
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/045
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/045/vers//imgno/2

Fuel pump:
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/030


And if you ever have to look up any diagrams for future problems: http://mb.ilcats.ru/group/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate and if the link does not work then use this: http://mb.ilcats.ru/group/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/ and click on the '+' next to 'Шасси 202.' for the list of subtopics.

This video shows, in length detail, how to change it on a Ford (which is quite different from our Benz's, but in similar concept for this job). He had to take some more steps than we would in his job since the original fuel pump didn't match the setup for the new one. He also didn't go into the trunk for the electrical plug, but I just want you to at least see the concept of the job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2TrjxYLyj4



Please feel free to ask any questions. I hope this is helpful.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

In the event that the fuel pump has gone bad, this is all the information I can provide on the topic:

My friend's father and I did change the fuel pump before the MAF sensor and it was a bit of a job. If you do this, I recommend you change the fuel filter while you are working with the pump just to save stress in the future (depending on the mileage).


First we got the car in the air (we just lifted it by the rear passenger's side wheel). he then removed the plastic protection cover covering the fuel pump and filter.

There were some hoses connected to the pump that carried the gasoline; be careful not to spill out the fuel tank and take note of where the hoses go to. It is hard to explain which hoses went where since they are all the same color, so tracing them to their original locations is important in this step and I recommend that if you do this yourself that you have someone experienced with such help you out since it is quite dangerous and confusing. Don't forget that some of the hoses there are just for the fuel filter.

After taking the hoses off the pump, the device was unscrewed off the chassis that it was connected to. We then had traced the power cable for it into the trunk area in which it was plugged in. The trunk carpet floor can be simply removed and there is another platform that covers the electrical area that the pump and other components are plugged into.

Removing, and later replacing, the fuel pump will require re-fitting in this annoying rubber gasket that seals the hole for the fuel pump wire. Upon tracing the wire into the trunk from under the car will reveal this seal.

Make sure that the hoses are properly inserted into the correct plugs including the fuel filter when you place a new pump onto the chassis. As annoying as the seal is for the cord, make sure it is fitted to prevent moisture from getting into the electric area. Don't forget to replace the plastic shield as well- mine was ruined one day from a bottle rocket some little brats put in the street one late night, but if it had not been there I could have had a car fire or been killed. Also, make sure the hoses are fitted tight with the braces and if the hoses are brittle or cracked, you should get new ones and can easily get then cheap since they are general hoses and not OEM only.



Hopefully you will not have to do all this, but if you do I wish you luck and please make sure you have someone with you when you do this.

These images are not so good, but they are better than nothing I suppose:
Fuel lines:
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/045
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/045/vers//imgno/2

Fuel pump:
http://mb.ilcats.ru/part/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate/group/47/subgr/030


And if you ever have to look up any diagrams for future problems: http://mb.ilcats.ru/group/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/023%20translate and if the link does not work then use this: http://mb.ilcats.ru/group/class/1/ccode/F/cat/44W/type/202/subtype/ and click on the '+' next to 'Шасси 202.' for the list of subtopics.

This video shows, in length detail, how to change it on a Ford (which is quite different from our Benz's, but in similar concept for this job). He had to take some more steps than we would in his job since the original fuel pump didn't match the setup for the new one. He also didn't go into the trunk for the electrical plug, but I just want you to at least see the concept of the job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2TrjxYLyj4



Please feel free to ask any questions. I hope this is helpful.

thank you scary larry, for taking the time out of your day and writing that, it is much appreciated sincerely, if the mechanics price is outrageous ill will most likely do the job myself and make a DIY for us to go off of , i know another member is in the process of making one about a fuel pump, once his parts come in, hopefully he gets to it before i do, so i can reference off that, but the information you provided is definitely a plus, once again thank you

[Scary-Larry]

thank you scary larry, for taking the time out of your day and writing that, it is much appreciated sincerely, if the mechanics price is outrageous ill will most likely do the job myself and make a DIY for us to go off of , i know another member is in the process of making one about a fuel pump, once his parts come in, hopefully he gets to it before i do, so i can reference off that, but the information you provided is definitely a plus, once again thank you

It was my pleasure, let me know if you have any other questions. If it is the MAF sensor that went bad, I believe that job is much easier.

This person has an SLK230 and I believe it is the same engine you have (or close enough). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZrFv77l9nQ

It seems to be a decent price in some places too: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=C230+MAF+OEM&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=3


Let me know what happens.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

It was my pleasure, let me know if you have any other questions. If it is the MAF sensor that went bad, I believe that job is much easier.

This person has an SLK230 and I believe it is the same engine you have (or close enough). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZrFv77l9nQ

It seems to be a decent price in some places too: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=C230+MAF+OEM&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=3


Let me know what happens.



awesome most definitely will do, hope i get a call tomorrow from him letting me know exactly what it is..keeping my fingers crossed lol will update info tomorrow

[timmyj51]

Check the fuel pump relay before you replace the fuel pump. The relay's often the culprit with non-starts.

[RemoLexi]

You guys are going to throw parts at it and never fix anything

Engines need 3 things to run, it's basics.

-Got fuel? No I don't mean you think you hear a buzzing or your dad says it does, get a cheap fuel pressure gauge and test the fuel pressure. Normal is 3.5bar (50-55psi)

-engines need air, I am sure you didn't park on the moon so that's out of the question.

-do you have spark? Probably not. Not having spark can be easier tested, while cranking spray a little brake clean or starter fluid and see if the car fires for a split second, if not then you have no spark. No spark can be many issues such as crank sensor, cam sensor, coil is burnt, and so on.

So find out first which of the three you are lacking first, then let us know. Don't randomly throw parts at it, you will waste more money then the car is worth.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

hey whats up guys, Happy to report i did get my car back with a new fuel filter, and fuel pump, the issue was the FUEL pump this is the fuel pump that was put into my car, http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=h143lb55fmg31qrovkavwk55&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1316343@C230&year=1998&cid=fuel%20pump@fuel%20pump&gid=6256@Fuel%20Pump,%20Electric,

customer pricing on this OEM pump was $ 266, when i went over and showed him the autohauzaz.com pricing he knocked it off $30 more bucks,(i didnt debate with him, i just nicely brang it up) as for labor, he stated he rounded up to 2 hrs of troubleshooting, and removing and installation of the fuel pump and what not, , i think it was alot less, but i didnt care i just wanted my baby back lol his labor rate is $85 bucks an hour, he charged me $100 for the whole job, new hose and clamps a couple more bucks.. $377 was the total, im happy with the the way the car responds now, i can tell it needed this for awhile, i calculated the wait for the part, stress of hitching rides giving gas money ,towing the car to one of my buddy's garages ($60) and just running around getting on the little stuff like hose clamps, would have prolly been around $250, the waiting for the part is the worse

things that i noticed improved were i use to have a slight bog when coming to a stop or waiting at a stop, that is now gone, i had a slight jerk, from first to second while the car was warm now that is now gone, i am in no way saying this is the solution to your guys problems if you have something similiar to what i just wrote, but this was all a plus for me, no more hitching rides to college, now i can get to the gym and also go see my lady friends:) stress free. :)))))

[Scary-Larry]

hey whats up guys, Happy to report i did get my car back with a new fuel filter, and fuel pump, the issue was the FUEL pump this is the fuel pump that was put into my car, http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=h143lb55fmg31qrovkavwk55&makeid=800016@Mercedes&modelid=1316343@C230&year=1998&cid=fuel%20pump@fuel%20pump&gid=6256@Fuel%20Pump,%20Electric,

customer pricing on this OEM pump was $ 266, when i went over and showed him the autohauzaz.com pricing he knocked it off $30 more bucks,(i didnt debate with him, i just nicely brang it up) as for labor, he stated he rounded up to 2 hrs of troubleshooting, and removing and installation of the fuel pump and what not, , i think it was alot less, but i didnt care i just wanted my baby back lol his labor rate is $85 bucks an hour, he charged me $100 for the whole job, new hose and clamps a couple more bucks.. $377 was the total, im happy with the the way the car responds now, i can tell it needed this for awhile, i calculated the wait for the part, stress of hitching rides giving gas money ,towing the car to one of my buddy's garages ($60) and just running around getting on the little stuff like hose clamps, would have prolly been around $250, the waiting for the part is the worse

things that i noticed improved were i use to have a slight bog when coming to a stop or waiting at a stop, that is now gone, i had a slight jerk, from first to second while the car was warm now that is now gone, i am in no way saying this is the solution to your guys problems if you have something similiar to what i just wrote, but this was all a plus for me, no more hitching rides to college, now i can get to the gym and also go see my lady friends:) stress free. :)))))

I'm really glad that the problem is solved. The price of $377 at the garage sounds pretty decent also. It is a really good thing that you got new hoses and clamps too. Now that you have the car back and the performance is renewed it must be such a good feeling. You know where to go if you have any other questions.

[SnowwhiteMerc]

I'm really glad that the problem is solved. The price of $377 at the garage sounds pretty decent also. It is a really good thing that you got new hoses and clamps too. Now that you have the car back and the performance is renewed it must be such a good feeling. You know where to go if you have any other questions.

definitely man i drove the whole way home with a smile, and when i noticed the bog was gone, i was super happy, the mechanic serviced my car since the first owner, it now has 118,455 miles on it, im trying to keep up with the preventative maintenance as much as i can, it relieves stress in the future:)

[Scary-Larry]

It is so relieving to get the job done, especially at a good price. As long as you keep up with the maintenance you could run the car forever. It isn't like some other cars that get a cracked block after 150xxx miles or something like that. Have fun at the gym!

[Scary-Larry]

I beg your pardon?

[jc1kz]

Ignore it scary larry...that is just stupid gibberish from some anoying dumb-f@#$%K even using the language translater it is gibberish......