Fitting a E60 M5 MAF to a C230K, any comments or experiences?

[John Jones Jr.]

Guys,

As per the thread title.

Anybody done it or know of anybody who has?

Any idea what I should expect or is it even worth doing in the first place?


I've now relocated my MAF up closer to the throttle body, haven't noticed any differences except the slight 'flat spot' that was there before between 3000-4000 RPM is now more pronounced. I'm wondering will a M5 MAF cure this or is my current MAF on it's way out?

[KrumB]

Hi J,

I'm using exactly the same MAF (Bosch 0280218062) and the car runs perfectly even without moving it closer to the throttle body. I changed it myself and after a few days went to a MB dealer to adopt it and they said it's not needed.
It's a perfect solution.
Cheers
Krum

[dokotela]

dont know if its gonna sort out your troubles...check what error codes are thrown....if its O2 upstream..then its most probably MAF.

just did this mod literally 2 hours ago.
anyway, heres what i found on an untuned C230K with a kleemann crank pulley and 63mm(2.5")exhaust.
with my stock MAF overfuelling like crazy on idle and on part throttle, i dyno'd the car and the air fuel ratio was between 14.5 and 12.9 at WOT. on switching to the E60 M5 MAF, at WOT the air fuel ratios were lower, more like between 14.0 and 11.5.....but no more overfuelling at idle and part throttle. so i figured i could live with this until my SC mod is complete...and got the bosch 4bar regulator on back order from germany....very cheap...approx $60-$70.
as well, the MAF is about $90-$100 for the M5 and more like $250 for the C230K directly from bosch.
also i believe that the MAF will go through some adaptation over the next 2 days or so, so i'm excited about the power prospect cos prior to the change i got 170-180kw at the fly and 330-350nm working on a 20-25% drive train loss.
post MAF change, i instantly hit lower which i sneered at initially and then asked my mech to run it again. to my surprise the power was up and even higher on the 3rd run.
i'm currently at the same power but the torque had now jumped to 350-375nm depending on the drive train loss. that's exciting

[John Jones Jr.]

All good & positive news, cheers guys.

Two questions.

1. Can I buy just the M5 MAF on it's own without the MAF housing?

2. Do I need to change to a 4bar pressure reg, as I'm only fitting an over size crank pulley?

[dokotela]

yes the hot wire is available without housing...thats how the original bosch is sold these days
and no u dont need to change to 4 bar regulator with crank pulley only

[dokotela]

yes the hot wire is available without housing...thats how the original bosch is sold these days
and no u dont need to change to 4 bar regulator with crank pulley only

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks Doc.

I think I'll take the plunge and order one now.

[KrumB]

Try this one:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Ralf-Luecke-Exclusivteile/Luftmassenmesser-/_i.html?_fsub=228208019&_sasi=1&_sid=446368539&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

[KrumB]

Try this one:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Ralf-Luecke-Exclusivteile/Luftmassenmesser-/_i.html?_fsub=228208019&_sasi=1&_sid=446368539&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks K-B. I did order one, pity I didn't see your post first as the one I ordered, a Bosch one also, was a €31 more expensive. Life!

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks K-B. I did order one, pity I didn't see your post first as the one I ordered, a Bosch one also, was a €31 more expensive. Life!

[John Jones Jr.]

Here's a possible point of interest.

I decided this morning to refit the MAF fliter/gauze that I had removed while relocating the MAF, as in the back of my mind it might have some bearing on the air flow in relation to the MAF itself. I just gave the car a quick blast and the 3000-4000rpm 'flat spot' wasn't present, nor any other flat sport for that matter? I suppose it's very possible the MAF is designed inconjunction with the filter/gauze present and it has an effect on the air flow passing the MAF?

I will do another longer drive soon just to double check.

[dokotela]

It's probably the dirt that was affecting it. Use some MAF cleaner and u should be good

[John Jones Jr.]

From what I can tell Dok, I checked it twice and on both occasions it was spotless, no even the slightest smear of oil either.

[John Jones Jr.]

Went out for another drive just now and got the engine up to fully working temp, did about 20 miles, no 'flat spot' ! Happy days. Wonder will I notice any difference with new M5 MAF? Doubt it but, there might be a better AFR across the rev range? What do you think Dok?

[KrumB]

It'll be great if you can measure the AFR before and after. I'm very curious.

[John Jones Jr.]

K-B, I'm curious too. I'll see what I can arrange. Wonder would the local Merc specialist (don't really know the guy) be able too, then again he's no rolling road.

Another thing on reflection of this evenings drive, after refitting the filter/gauze along with the MAF relocation I'd almost swear that there's an improvement in throttle response. Now that could just me wishing for an improvement but for sure there's no 'flat spot' now.

[Mike51809]

The gauze and screen is there to stabilize the air so the sensor can get an accurate reading and that could defenitly be why you had a flatspot

[John Jones Jr.]

Howdo Mike.

Yes, I was thinking that alright that's why I replaced it and so far it has done the job. I'll be taking the car for a long run on Saturday, I should know for sure if it's solved the problem, at present all is good.

[dokotela]

Went out for another drive just now and got the engine up to fully working temp, did about 20 miles, no 'flat spot' ! Happy days. Wonder will I notice any difference with new M5 MAF? Doubt it but, there might be a better AFR across the rev range? What do you think Dok?

if your fuel quality is up to standard, then i doubt that there will be an increase in power. you will have lower air fuel ratios for sure which is actually more of a guarantee than anything at this stage, u need to test cruising a/f ratios to see whether the car will actually be heavier on fuel or not. i'm currently doing the longer experiment, just filled the tank and checking what mileage i get out of it.

glad your problems are sorted though. i personally think you should maybe test a/f ratios before and after crank pulley install cos chances are u might not need the new MAF. but if u did the sc mod as well, then it would probably be a different story

[John Jones Jr.]

You're right about testing AFR before & after but I don't have an AFR gauge, so it's all seat of the pants testing (which generally means I ain't really got a clue of what's happening!). Will do a couple of MPG checks (tank to tank) now that you've mentioned it.

[John Jones Jr.]

Dok, a few question for you if you don't mind.

I fitting my new over sized next week, should I fit the M5 MAF too?
What I'm concerned about is the engine running too lean ( I've no way of checking the AFR) and I've have read some horror stories on one or two SLK sites (of course among positive stories also) about just fitting the over size pulley.

Are you fairly sure I don't need to up the fuel pressure and run cooler plugs?

Also, how necessary is it to have the engine remapped?

Thanks in advance.

[KrumB]

I did exactly that.
Don't worry. The increase in pressure should be about 0.3 Bar and the ECU is retarding to compensate to the lean mixture so harm happens to the engine. ( the anty knock sensors come into play)
Cheers

[John Jones Jr.]

Great to hear K-B. Would you expect the M5 MAF worthwhile with the over sized pulley?

[KrumB]

J
Never compared but no complains from the BMW MAF from me so far. In fact I think it works better with the ECU than the OEM one in cases like ours.

[dokotela]

Dok, a few question for you if you don't mind.

I fitting my new over sized next week, should I fit the M5 MAF too?
What I'm concerned about is the engine running too lean ( I've no way of checking the AFR) and I've have read some horror stories on one or two SLK sites (of course among positive stories also) about just fitting the over size pulley.

Are you fairly sure I don't need to up the fuel pressure and run cooler plugs?

Also, how necessary is it to have the engine remapped?

Thanks in advance.

If you have a good MAF, then I see no reason to fit the M5 MAF. As krumb pointed out, the knock sensor will prevent detonation by retarding our timing.

You don't need to up the fuel pressure. But fitting colder plugs would help for performance.

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks again K-B.

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks Dok.

Any idea of what cooler running plugs to get?

[dokotela]

It's 1 number up on the Bosch plug...can't remember exactly. 7/8

[KrumB]

I use NGK BKR7E

@ 0.8 mm

They're ment for water jet engines so don't surprise! :)
Work great for us!

[John Jones Jr.]

And again many thanks, Dok & K-B.

[adik590]

Will they fit our cars?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251254698883?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
W202 C230K 1999 AT

[John Jones Jr.]

I think the standard plug should be NGK BKUR6ET , Beru 14FGH-7DTURX0 or the equivalent BOSCH (don't know the number, sorry). I'd reckon the ones on eBay will do but they are a colder running plug.

[Abbaso]

Hi guys just thought I'd thank you guys for starting this thread. And thanks to K- B for the Bosch part no. On the Maf. Went to Bosch direct and met a mate of mine that schooled together and he gave it to me for like 50$!
4 bar fpr is on order from Germany at like 45$

[John Jones Jr.]

Wow, only $50! You should have bought several & resold them. Abbas, why are you changing the FPR?

[Abbaso]

Yeah i was kina shocked myself at the price the local spare shop wanted like a 100$..Don't wana take the chance of running lean once the pulley is fitted( still waiting on delivery) . But will check afr's once pulley is fitted. If all goes well might get the s/c pulley machined down as well. Spoken to a guy who has machined a mini cooper s/c pulley sez if the clutch can be removed he can do it.

[KrumB]

Hi,
You're welcome. :)
The s/c pulley is not connected to the clutch.
Looks like this:
http://mercedesdata.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130211-235333.jpg
http://mercedesdata.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/20130211-235319.jpg

The lowest you can go is 87mm.

[John Jones Jr.]

Ah, K-B your still kicking about. Reckoned you'd gone off and got a BMW or something! ;) Any news on your car?

[John Jones Jr.]

Yeah i was kina shocked myself at the price the local spare shop wanted like a 100$..Don't wana take the chance of running lean once the pulley is fitted( still waiting on delivery) . But will check afr's once pulley is fitted. If all goes well might get the s/c pulley machined down as well. Spoken to a guy who has machined a mini cooper s/c pulley sez if the clutch can be removed he can do it.

Post up a photo of the new FPR install when you do it, I'm thinking of doing the same as but have not investigated fitting one yet. Also, I'm thinking about getting the S/c pulley machined but not down to 87mm (see K-B's post), maybe just to 90mm. What's the original diameter, 94mm?

[KrumB]

BMW? Haha everithing is too easy there. :) :) :)

I checked the AFR ratios and I'm running a bit lean mid RPM. Around 14.1-14.5 and intake temp is a bit high 55-60 DEG C (25 ambient).
So I decided to change the IC with a bigger one. The other thing that's on my mind is a piggyback ECU and a extra fuel injector. I friend of mine that helps me with the car offered me a SMT6 ECU.
We'll see what happens. :) :) :)

How's your car doeing?

[KrumB]

Yes. Original the diameter is 94 mm.

[John Jones Jr.]

Interesting about the AFR, I presume the only reason for that is the machinied the S/c pulley along with porting the S/c?

Yeah, thanks for asking. My car is flying, just waiting on a new Cam solenoid/magnet (see my other thread). I did have a slight problem, actually it was a dangerous problem as I lost all boost pressure twice, once while overtaking several cars in one hit, pulling 80+!!! The boost pipe was coming adrift on sudden WOT even with new heavy duty screw clips. Now I've fitted some T-bolt clamps & all seems o.k.. I'll be changing the CPS just in case, worth doing imo, changed the FPR also, got a genuine M-B (Hella) one for €9.

[KrumB]

Yes the combination of the machinied the S/C pulley and the porting the S/C gives quite a bit of pressure. :) I've got 10 psi @ 2000 RPM, 12 psi @ 3000. :)

That thing with the pipe...not good. You will have no worries with the T-bolt clamps!

[Abbaso]

Post up a photo of the new FPR install when you do it, I'm thinking of doing the same as but have not investigated fitting one yet. Also, I'm thinking about getting the S/c pulley machined but not down to 87mm (see K-B's post), maybe just to 90mm. What's the original diameter, 94mm?

It's easy as pie. Remove the vacuum pipe then circlip holding down the fpr and it's off. There's a Bosch 4 bar regulator that will pop right in. About the s/c pulley was also thinking of not all the way down to 87mm
Would never sacrifice power for reliability.

[Abbaso]

[QUOTE=KrumB;181998]BMW? Haha everithing is too easy there. :) :) :)

I checked the AFR ratios and I'm running a bit lean mid RPM. Around 14.1-14.5 and intake temp is a bit high 55-60 DEG C (25 ambient).
So I decided to change the IC with a bigger one. The other thing that's on my mind is a piggyback ECU and a extra fuel injector. I friend of mine that helps me with the car offered me a SMT6 ECU.
We'll see what happens. :) :) :)

Do you have any pics of the inter cooler and was it a mission to install?
I've spoken to a tuner regarding the piggyback chip and he advised to rather go software reason he says is that they only tune in open loop and our ecu's might revert back to normal when in closed loop. Well something to that effect I'm not yet clued up on the open and closed loop tuning. The SMT6 is a perfect power chip right?

[John Jones Jr.]

It's easy as pie. Remove the vacuum pipe then circlip holding down the fpr and it's off. There's a Bosch 4 bar regulator that will pop right in. About the s/c pulley was also thinking of not all the way down to 87mm
Would never sacrifice power for reliability.

That easy? I never really looked at mine, that's great. Abbas, have you got the Bosch part number?

[John Jones Jr.]

I've got 10 psi @ 2000 RPM, 12 psi @ 3000. :)

That thing with the pipe...not good.

10psi @ 2000! Wow, that makes real life driving very interesting & no doubt easy too.

As for the pipe, well it means I'm getting good pressure quickly! :D

[Abbaso]

That easy? I never really looked at mine, that's great. Abbas, have you got the Bosch part number?
Yep that easy JJR Bosch part no. 0280160575

[Abbaso]

Is that at the fpr or vacuum off the s/c?

A question is there a hole on the firewall where I can connect the boost gauge inside the vehicle? For test purpose i just run It outside and into the window. Was thinking of mounting the gauge in the glove compartment try and keep it oem as possible.Don't wana be drilling into her to connect boost gauge. And finally if I get the s/c pulley machined wana connect a wide band digital afr gauge int g compartment as well.

[John Jones Jr.]

Yep that easy JJR Bosch part no. 0280160575

Top man.

[John Jones Jr.]

Was thinking of mounting the gauge in the glove compartment try and keep it oem as possible.Don't wana be drilling into her to connect boost gauge. And finally if I get the s/c pulley machined wana connect a wide band digital afr gauge int g compartment as well.


Now that you've mentioned this, actually I was thinking the same long term. Boost pressure, AFR, In/out temp & Oil Temp/press. Using dual gauges for the last two, total three gauges.

[KrumB]

Perfect Power SMT6

All piggy-back systems rely on the exiting ECU to provide the fuel and ignition to an electronically fuel injected engine. Therefore, they are also bound by the limitations of the existing ECU.

Fuel is typically modified by changing the load sensor or lambda sensor signal. Ignition is done by delaying or advancing the crank angle sensor's signal. The piggy-back system tricks the ECU into thinking that it is running under different conditions thereby allowing for a different output.

Feature Benefit
Throttle Sensor learning feature Fits to any throttle position
RPM Calibration To suit your installation
High RPM range Ideal for racing
Fuel map with 128 sites Smooth Programming
Ignition Map with 128 sites Fine Ignition resolution
Injection Map with 128 sites For extra (boost!) injection
0 - 10 volt Analogue range Allows tuning of most models
6 Amp injector drive Handles 6 x 16 ohm injectors
Various ignition outputs For the most stringent applications
Selectable Trigger points To suit your application
Programmable Cylinders It works on any amount of cylinders!
Selectable polarity To Suit your application
Can handle interlaced signal For 4 cylinders ignition output tuning
Balanced Inputs Inverted Outputs
Missing Tooth Signal For up to 2 teeth advance/retard
Ignition output limit Limits max. advance and retard
Fuel High Low Limit Prevents overdriving the ECU
Small Size Fits Anywhere
Low Battery Drain Simple Installation
Self Checking Test Available For Extra Confidence
Map Switchable While you drive!
All Inputs Protected No mishaps!
Crystal Controlled For Stability
Encapsulated For Moisture and Dust
Easy Tuning Software DOS or WINDOWS
Low Component Count High MTBF
10 MIPS computing To facilitate quick engine response
Signal Conditioning To prevent miss trigger
Engine profiles (library) Easy set up
Lambda Signal Tuning Modification of Lambda Senor Readings
Proportional Nitrous Control Less waste of power in nitrous injection
Adjust Dwell Time For very basic standalone applications
RPM or Airflow or Analogue Defection or Temp Switch/Set Point For CAM switch and similar applications

[KrumB]

You don't need to drill anything. Under the fusebox there's a tunnel you can put your both hands though it. :) You just need to disassemble the top of the fuse box (without taking off any fuses). :)

[Abbaso]

Top man.


You don't need to drill anything. Under the fusebox there's a tunnel you can put your both hands though it. :) You just need to disassemble the top of the fuse box (without taking off any fuses). :)

Sweet!!
Thanks