Dyno sheet for C230K

[John Jones Jr.]

As per the title. This is on behalf of Abbas (Abbaso) from South Africa. I've posted it as he can't post attachments at the moment.

From what I understand he's fitted the same larger crank pulley as I fitted to my car a while back. I'm sure he'll be along to explain what's what etc but judging from this dyno sheet he's gained about 30BHP+ at the flywheel.

[Abbaso]

Thanks JJR
Yes its the same larger crank pulley as yours. The German co. claimed 35 ps and 45 nm of torque.
Car has a 2.5 inch mandrel bent exhaust with 3 boxes and an M5 maf.
Here's a pic of another dyno that i used while stock to measure the difference.
Edit
Can't seem to load pics

[John Jones Jr.]

Here's the photo's.

RED - no modifications.

kW 134 @ 5500rpm. 179bhp
Nm 238 @ 4500rpm. 175ft lb

BLUE - with modifications.

kW 154 @ 4500rpm. 206bhp
Nm 308 @ 4000rpm. 227ft lb

[John Jones Jr.]

Abbas,

We need the full modification spec of your car, well I'd like it anyway as a reference point if you don't mind.

1. Over size crank pulley. Tick
2. BMW E60 M5 Maf. Tick.
3. Maf relocated?
3. Modified Exhaust. Tick. (a photo would be good)
4. ECU standard or remapped?
5. Plugs?
6. FRP, 4bar?
7. Air Filter?
8. ?

[Abbaso]

Abbas,

We need the full modification spec of your car, well I'd like it anyway as a reference point if you don't mind.

1. Over size crank pulley. Tick
2. BMW E60 M5 Maf. Tick.
3. Maf relocated?
3. Modified Exhaust. Tick. (a photo would be good)
4. ECU standard or remapped?
5. Plugs?
6. FRP, 4bar?
7. Air Filter?
8. ?

Yes maf is relocated with oem slk pipe.
Ecu is standard
Plugs standard
Stock filter
4 bar fpr
63 mm mandrel bent exhaust.
I will try and get underneath this weekend to get a photo of the exhaust.


Anybody remapped or piggy backed Ecu and got genuine increase in power? What would I expect from an Ecu retune. I've checked afr and all seems good. Starts of in the 14.4 then drops to 11.3 higher in the rpm range.

Please note these are 2 different dynos the first was a hypermeter and second a dastek dynamometer. the second pic is the initial dyno I started with before doing any mods

[John Jones Jr.]

Abbas,

I've been looking into ECU remapping and been in contact with several tuning shops, their claims vary greatly, anything between 15bhp to 39bhp and corresponding torque increases. I would think it reasonable to expect 15-20bhp on a non modified engine and maybe improved drive-ability. Personally, I'd be delighted with a genuine 20bhp. The respected U.S. tuning company Eurocharge claim 20bhp. See here:http://www.eurocharged.com/products/mercedes-tuning/c-class/c230/c230k-2-3-performance-engine-software-w202-detail
As for a piggy back ECU, I can't assist but KrumB on here has experience and might be able to help, worth contacting him as he's very helpful.

[KrumB]

Hi everyone,

Here's what I currently use:

1. Custom engine pulley – 220mm dia.
2. Custom kompressor pulley – 87mm
3. Belt – 6PK1387/8
4. New Fuel Pressure Regulator @ 4bar – Bosch 0280160575
5. New spark plugs – NGK BKR7E
6. New MAF – Bosch – 0 280 218 062 - haven't relocated it
7. Aftermarket intercooler - 550/140/65 mm @ 57 mm in/out
8. Ported S/C
The ECU is remapped. At that time I have only changed the crank pulley.

Currently the engine is running lean and hopefully this weekend I'll be mounting the piggy-back (SMT6)

I'm probably forgetting something so do not hesitate to ask...

I knew it.. :)

I use the stock airbox and filter with a small modification. I removed the silencer and the rubber 90 deg hose coming from the BOV. (sounds cool)
The exhaust system is stock. Just cleaned the cats.

[Abbaso]

Hi Krum thanks for the input.
What boost at the fpr are you at currently with both the kompressor and crank ?
Do you have a pic of aftermarket intercooler? How hard was it to mount?
In regard to the bov I just loosened 1 of the 2 hex head bolts to get that cool sound:)

[KrumB]

Here's me blog. Part of it is in bulgarian ( the important one I know) but I guess you can translate it with google.

http://mercedesdata.wordpress.com/

If it's not clear enough just tell me and I'll do it.

Currently the boost is somwhere between 0.9 and 1.0 Bar

[Abbaso]

Here's me blog. Part of it is in bulgarian ( the important one I know) but I guess you can translate it with google.

http://mercedesdata.wordpress.com/

If it's not clear enough just tell me and I'll do it.

Currently the boost is somwhere between 0.9 and 1.0 Bar

Perfect. Thanks

[John Jones Jr.]

Top man K-B. Keep us updated when you can.

Blagodarya.

[KrumB]

Haha I just saw how it looks through google translator....LOL

Sorry!!! :D:D

[John Jones Jr.]

What's that, your blog or me trying to say thanks in Bulgarian? :D

[KrumB]

My blog through google. LOL
Your Bulgarian is perfect.

P.S. I should probably start a thread with regular updates.....what do you think?

[John Jones Jr.]

Oh, yeah the blog! :D No, K-B it's not difficult to work out & the photos are very good. I'd be delighted if you did start a thread, no doubt Abbas too and maybe other Kompressor owners would also. So, what are you waiting for? ;)

One thing I wasn't too sure about after reading the blog is, what was the original BHP & Torque figures (yours is a C200k right?) and how much exactly did you gain with just the crank pulley change & remap?

[Abbaso]

Oh, yeah the blog! :D No, K-B it's not difficult to work out & the photos are very good. I'd be delighted if you did start a thread, as no doubt Abbas and other Kompressor would too. So, what are you waiting for? ;)

One thing I wasn't too sure about after reading the blog is, what was the original BHP & Torque figures (yours is a C200k right?) and how much exactly did you gain with just the crank pulley change & remap?

...+1

[KrumB]

If I'm not wrong I gained about 15 hp and about 20 ft-lbs at the wheels. The power band shifted also. I got max HP at 4800 RPM instead of 5300 RPM. The max boost pressure was around 0.75 Bar.

[John Jones Jr.]

If I'm not wrong I gained about 15 hp and about 20 ft-lbs at the wheels. The power band shifted also. I got max HP at 4800 RPM instead of 5300 RPM. The max boost pressure was around 0.75 Bar.

Excellent, K-B as it's good to have real world factual info. But, I'm a little surprised it was only 15 & 20 for both pulley and remap as I would have hoped/expected more even if yours is a 200K. Am I wrong? Can you take advantage of the power band moving down 500rpm, will you be looking at other mods so?

I know, so many questions hope I'm not being a pain in the ass! :D

[KrumB]

I have doubts that the remap was not done accurately. I also think there should be more hp but...
I'm currently preparing for the piggy-back ECU so if I'm lucky we'll have results tomorrow evening. :)
As for max power being at lower RPM it's quite pleasant. I don't have to rev the engine when overtaking and moving around in traffic. :)

P.S. Next mont I'll start preparations for turbo setup.... :))))

[John Jones Jr.]

Looking forward to that.

[John Jones Jr.]

Abbas,

Here's the I.C. that K-B fitted, now back in stock as last time I looked they hadn't got any. They seem like good value too. If you look on K-B's blog there's a big difference in temps with this new I.C.. Surely, it has to be one of the best value power modifications possible?

http://tuning-parts.bg/air-intercoolers/80/

[Abbaso]

[QUOTE=John Jones Jr.;182916]Abbas,

Here's the I.C. that K-B fitted, now back in stock as last time I looked they hadn't got any. They seem like good value too. If you look on K-B's blog there's a big difference in temps with this new I.C.. Surely, it has to be one of the best value power modifications possible?

Thanks John
A mate of mine has one that looks exactly like that laying in his garage. I will measure it up and see if it's the same. If it is I will make him an offer. We've had bad weather this weekend and was not in the mood to tinker with the car. Will try maybe later in the week to get pics of the exhaust. The welding ain't too good but well worth the 200 $ dollars spent.

[KrumB]

Hi,
Just a little heads up....
You will have to cut a bit from the lower bumper mounts right next to the bolts so that the I/C can go 3-4 cm upwards.
When you see it you'll understand what I mean. It's a tight fit.

[John Jones Jr.]

Hi,
Just a little heads up....
You will have to cut a bit from the lower bumper mounts right next to the bolts so that the I/C can go 3-4 cm upwards.
When you see it you'll understand what I mean. It's a tight fit.

Good to know, cheers. Any issues with connecting the pipes?

[KrumB]

No drama there. :) :)

[Sulaco]

I assume those numbers are projected HP at the crank? If stock HP is 175 at the crank, 134 kW would mean 179 hp.

Martattack once put his stock, m104 powered C280 on a dyno and was getting 157hp at the rear wheels.

[Abbaso]

I assume those numbers are projected HP at the crank? If stock HP is 175 at the crank, 134 kW would mean 179 hp.

Martattack once put his stock, m104 powered C280 on a dyno and was getting 157hp at the rear wheels.

Yes it is.

[John Jones Jr.]

If stock HP is 175 at the crank

Stock is 193PS/190BHP.

[John Jones Jr.]

stock, m104 powered C280 on a dyno and was getting 157hp at the rear wheels.

That would seem correct if you accept 20% drive train losses. Stock @ crank = 194BHP less 37BHP (20%) = 157BHP. Then again what's the exact drive train power loss for that particular car on a given day (ambient air temp & humidity vary) or on a particular chassis dyno (don't imagine every dyno is the exact same), is 20% correct? Or, should it be 17.5% or maybe 25%, maybe add another 5% on top of those percentages if it's fitted with an auto box? Who knows? One thing for sure I don't.

If I take my C230K manual (stick shift) as an example and presuming it hasn't lost any ponies from new (190BHP) I would be happy if the chassis dyno figure at the wheels was 20% (38BHP) down, giving 152BHP @ the wheels, not that it makes much difference what the drive train power loss is as there's darn all I can do about it except, maybe fit a lighter prop & drive shafts, installing oil coolers to both g/box & diff along with fitting lighter alloy wheels and better free flowing exhaust system.

In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is, I'd take chassis dyno power figures as only an indication of what power is being produced at the crank, nothing more. And it's a well accepted fact that some dyno opeators will tell you a figure you want to hear.

[Abbaso]

In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is, I'd take chassis dyno power figures as only an indication of what power is being produced at the crank, nothing more. And it's a well accepted fact that some dyno opeators will tell you a figure you want to hear.[/QUOTE]

You can say that again.

[Sulaco]

Terrified of putting my C43 on a dyno. I'm certain I'd be sick to my stomach with how low the real numbers are.

[John Jones Jr.]

Sulaco, I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest may even be more that you reckon. If there's nothing wrong mechanically and you are happy the car is driving well just rock on :cool: If you do end running it on a dyno, do it twice on different dyno's, that in theory should give you a better picture on the real power being made at the crank. Anyway, would you really notice or be upset if it made 275 instead 300BHP @ the crank with 260k miles . Doubtful imo. BTW, did you ever do a compression check for the hell of it?

[Sulaco]

I'm very happy with it, but I know with it being a 1500kg car with an awful slushbox transmission, 270,000 miles, and 14 years old? I'd prolly hit 220hp at the rear wheels if I'm lucky!

[Adam-F]

Hi, everybody!
Forgive for my English. I write through the translator :D
Here that is established on my car of C230K:
1 . Custom a crankshaft pulley on 215мм
2 . Custom compressor pulley
3 . Driving belt 6PK 1400
4 . Fuel 4bar regulator
5 . Air K&N filter
6 . Compressor Porting
7 . Control and ECU reprogramming
8 . BOV HKS Super Sound
9 . Exhaust system direct from a collector with one resonator and the Lorinser muffler
10 . Interkuler size of a kernel 550*230*65. Input and output 65
With the received result it is happy. But nevertheless there is a wish to go further and to get still a big rise in power. Compressor photo after a porting. And peak value on the sensor


http://d.a.d-cd.net/ccf1f18s-960.jpg
http://e.a.d-cd.net/6cf1f18s-960.jpg
http://f.a.d-cd.net/ecf1f18s-960.jpg
http://d.a.d-cd.net/3cf1f18s-960.jpg
http://h.a.d-cd.net/8b42e58s-960.jpg
http://cs419326.vk.me/v419326530/69b9/uwdaOT_-8HM.jpg

[John Jones Jr.]

10 . Interkuler size of a kernel 550*230*65. Input and output 65




Hello, Adam F.

Wow, now that's a big inter cooler. What power (PS/BHP) does you engine produce?

[John Jones Jr.]

10 . Interkuler size of a kernel 550*230*65. Input and output 65




Hello, Adam F.

Wow, now that's a big inter cooler. What power (PS/BHP) does you engine produce?

[Adam-F]

Hello, Adam F.

Wow, now that's a big inter cooler. What power (PS/BHP) does you engine produce?

Exact values unfortunately aren't present. The stand where can be measured to be on removal 850км. Most interestingly how many gives out the motor. In the near future I will try to make measurements of dispersal 0-100, 0-200

[John Jones Jr.]

Exact values unfortunately aren't present. The stand where can be measured to be on removal 850км. Most interestingly how many gives out the motor. In the near future I will try to make measurements of dispersal 0-100, 0-200

Ah, o.k.

What do you mean by ''how many gives out the motor'' ?

[Adam-F]

I mean PS/BHP value

Through the translator there can be problems with transfer :D

[John Jones Jr.]

Yes, I understand, no problem. But, are you asking the PS/BHP for your car?

[Adam-F]

Previously we expect 250-260 PS

[Adam-F]

Did car check with stronger rival. Subaru Forester of 2,0 Turbo, 4WD, MT. 240HP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlVxqT_y7_0

[John Jones Jr.]

Previously we expect 250-260 PS

Excellent.

[Adam-F]

Excellent.

thanks

[Abbaso]

See you've got the magic 1 bar. Well done

[Abbaso]

Hi JJR
I've been reading and came across a company called dyno spot racing (dsr) they seem to have made a clutch less supercharger pulley... The threads were like 6 years old..

[John Jones Jr.]

Very good Abbas. Any details as I'd be interested to know how they over came the potential wiring issues and assoicated ECU issues with the clutch delete.

[Abbaso]

I mailed them asking if they still make the pulley unfortunately thy do not. I will reply and ask him if he's willing to share how they got about with the clutch delete issues. Unless if there's anybody in the San Jose are here on the forum that could possibly go have a chat with them

[Adam-F]

Hi, everybody!
Yesterday there was a miracle to which I can't find an explanation. Competed with stronger opponents. Our car went very well. After I looked in memory of the sensor at the maximum pressure of a komprresor. о_0 I was surprised. the arrow showed value of 1,2 bars. In confirmation of the words I will show a photo a bit later

[Adam-F]

http://cs419326.vk.me/v419326530/6c54/rQ67V6jTxb8.jpg

[Abbaso]

http://cs419326.vk.me/v419326530/6c54/rQ67V6jTxb8.jpg
That's twice as much boost I currently have. Would love to see what kinda bhp that amount of boost transfers to dyno.

[KrumB]

HI everyone,

That most likely is a peak value. This occurs between the gear changes. Right at the moment when the butterfly valve opens to release the excess pressure.
It looks good. :)

[KrumB]

Hi again,

Something you MUST do:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r170-slk-class/1328419-supercharger-bypass-mod.html

I've installed it before and removed it for some reason that I can't remember of......now it's back on the car and it's well worth it! :)

[John Jones Jr.]

Adam-F, good to see that 1.2Bar.

Abbaso, thanks for for trying to get the info.

K-B, great info & very interesting. Now, on the to do list. :D

[KrumB]

Hi Adam-F,

What kind and size of belt are you using?

[Abbaso]

Adam-F, good to see that 1.2Bar.

Abbaso, thanks for for trying to get the info.

K-B, great info & very interesting. Now, on the to do list. :D

I sent an email to dyno spot asking how they got around the clutch issues but he hasn't replied.
Yeah K-B very interesting makes sense as well. Gonna give it a go as well.

[Adam-F]

Hi Adam-F,

What kind and size of belt are you using?

Hi!
Belt compressor installed 6РК1400 can be even less put. But then tightening

[KrumB]

Hi

I've found something interesting on the web:

http://www1.snapon.com/Files/Diagnostics/UserManuals/MercedesBenzVehicleCommunicationSoftwareManual_EAZ 0025B41C.pdf

Cheers :)

[John Jones Jr.]

Good man Krum.

Wow, that certainly looks very comprehensive. Anything that we should really take note of, especially in relation to losing boost @ WOT?

[Abbaso]

Yep no doubt very comprehensive indeed. I've got car soft 7.4. Was checking the live data feed parameters on the download you sent KrumB. For cam hall effect sensor( little sensor of the side head.) Says 8t constantly changes between 55 and AA. With carsoft it changes between 85 and 170. So I think i can safely say its working. Your download also helped me with checking maf reading at idle. 4cyl should be btwn 8 and 15. Mine is at 8.
So very helpful indeed.
Thanks

[KrumB]

Good man Krum.

Wow, that certainly looks very comprehensive. Anything that we should really take note of, especially in relation to losing boost @ WOT?

It gives a clue on how the load is calculated and the relation between load and recirculating air flap opening and closing....

...we see where will that take us... :))

Cheers :)

[John Jones Jr.]

That's going to be interesting Krum if you do work it out, it would be really great to hear. What's the present state of play now. You've got a piggy back ECU working correctly now, right? Are you still getting boost loss at WOT?

Cheers,

John.

[John Jones Jr.]

Double post.

[KrumB]

Me and a friend of mine managed to download the ECU software now he'll be working on it....

[John Jones Jr.]

:cool:

[Abbaso]

Just thought I would revive this thread as I just received the 87 mm s/c pulley all the way from Bulgaria ;)
(Thanks Krum ) will post up a dyno once it's completed.

[John Jones Jr.]

Please do Abbas.

[Abbaso]

Pulley has been installed now using a 1390 belt which was a mission to get on along with the 4 bar fuel pressure regulator Haven't got it on the dyno yet to measure but I did check AFR's the same day I put it on and a couple days later once everything settled in.

Initially afr was at 12.6 higher in the rpm it's now settled 13.1 in the same rpm range. After speaking to a tuner he says it's ok but they usually set it near 12.6 just to be safe.

Oh yeah and you can definitely feel the increase in torque lower down but bigger intercooler is desperately needed now as it seems to get heat soaked after just one run. But at night it feels much better.

[adik590]

Just thought I would revive this thread as I just received the 87 mm s/c pulley all the way from Bulgaria ;)
(Thanks Krum ) will post up a dyno once it's completed.

Can you share a link to 87mm pulley in Bulgaria. Is it possible to order?
Thanks

[Abbaso]

Can you share a link to 87mm pulley in Bulgaria. Is it possible to order?
Thanks

Bought it off a fellow Club 202 member real stand up helpful guy. Krum. Do you have the crank pulley installed?

[adik590]

Yes, the crank pulley is installed