C43/CLK55 Conversion

[Pagz]

I've been eyeing up this project for years now hoping a damaged rhd one would turn up locally but no luck ,UK is usually rusty,to many miles and to far to ship, Finally one(actually two at once with A-pillar damage and similar millage) turned up across the ditch in Melbourne Australia,I had to get one of them...but which one to get?.

Of the two Australian registered MY2000's available one was 05/00(MY2000 code 800) and the other 09/00(which is actually a code 801(2001)),I didnt realize this at the time, but looking at the EPC and WIS wiring diagrams the CLK55 changed from ME2.0 to ME2.8 at 06/00 along with wiring changes to the CAN and various other modules. With VERY limited info on the condition of the two I made a call to pick the one with a dusty engine bay(possibly from a dry less rusty location), Green coolant instead of pink(possibly newer MB,or approved stuff) and the one with lower km's, which just so happened to be the 05/00, which on the surface looks to be a more suitable donor than ME2.8 as all C43 including tiptronic are ME2.0.


Onto the good stuff...

By the time everyone clips the ticket it really does cost arms and legs to import but still much cheaper than a non damage one locally.
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A quick check with SDS reveals regular service history through Mercedes, all modules without fault except sunroof hall sensors. Once we installed a working battery and fresh gas the engine runs smoother than my current 4.3
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Extremely happy there is next to no rust anywhere. +1 Aussi weather/desert.
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[Pagz]

Clk55 17" Lite weight spare wheel fits over the stoptech brakes and is 5kg lighter than the C43 mono spare... win.
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The 208 or 210 cluster does not fit the 202 perfectly, even though the front-on cut out is the same, the housing are suited specifically to the surrounding dash shape. A quick fix for this is to take a 202 housing and marry it to the gauge part of the 210/208 cluster which is near identical to the 202,the trick is to make a jig to hold it and use a cut off wheel/mill for best control. finish off with super matte chalkboard paint and epoxy to mate it all up...Boom!
The only give away is the lack of clock buttons on the right, I hope to make some tidy blank-off's for these.
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[Pagz]

The complete strip down with intent to use the 5.4, 722.636 trans, 4 finger prop shaft, larger 2.82 diff,axels and outer flanges, TCM,ECM,ESP,EIS etc plus some wiring(Trans/EGS loom is same part number as tip C43),spot welded trans tunnel add on(for tip shifter),boot cutout for larger 220 diff case like on C55 202.

There are a raft of other parts that are common to the C43 tip and ones that may or may not be but have 202 part numbers like the radiator with internal trans cooler(not sure if I will use this yet due problems with later variants of these), cable ducting and insulation around the tiptronic tunnel is same,the suspension is all C43 except the rear springs,I didn't realize the sway bars are "Eibach" and AMG branded. Major changes in the CLK55 compared to C43 are things like interior lighting modules and steering wheel functions. looking through the wiring I don't think these should be too much of a problem but there will plenty of challenges ahead.
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[Pagz]

Trans tunnel looks to be the same as non tip 202/208,I have cut out the spot welded part that holds the tip shifter, you can see from under this part is just like the the cutout for the larger diff fitted to the standard 202 boot floor used in 208 55/202 55.
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Rear subframe(208 part #), I'm yet to know if this will bolt directly into the C43 as the part is specific to the 208 55 only however earlier 208's use the 202 frame so first assumptions point towards a fitment, I was hoping not to have to unbolt all of the suspension and diff however the lower ball joint boots have split and like every mercedes in creation the diff leaks from the rear cover so will sort these issues prior to install.
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[RemoLexi]

You should have got the 5.4L W211 komp for parts instead, and gutted it of its electronics instead. The amount of
Labor to swap ETC, ME from a 208, I don't know what on earth you would gain!

[RemoLexi]

Also from those pix, it looks like the harmonic balancer campaign hasn't been completed. The large Allen bolt
Was replaced with a 27mm along with a new harmonic Balancer.

[Pagz]

Hey Remo,

The HB actually looks really good and runs true for 14 years!, will use the C43's new idle and tenionser pullies and get a new HB. Everything on the engine looks original except the cam cover gaskets!.

Does the CAN system on a 211 work with early 210/208/202 body modules? pretty sure it doesnt.

[KrumB]

Pagz, You're one crazy ....man! :) Hats off!!! :) :)




EDIT:
I'm waiting for you to charge it. :P

[Pagz]

Hobbies can get away on you sometimes =)

You'll be waiting some time for the charger haha=P , I think na 5.4 with 711.670 trans will come first! ;)

[kowalski]

Pagz you're one krazy kiwi, daem, I bet it cost you a lot to import the clk to kiwiland from down under?
you now have lots of therapy work getting it all working correct on your c43.

the clk55 looks to be in great condition, what are you doing to the gutted clk-body when you're done with the c43?

that 300 cluster does it work with the electronics in your c43?
can you take a few snapshots of the display and cluster, i wanna see how it sits after you put it on.

is it better to source an engine from a 2001-2002 car with ME2.8 electronics than a 2000 car using ME2.0?
in my country there are only high mileage cars from 1998 -1999 at the junkyards, I don't want to buy an engine from early years.

I wish you best of luck with your project.
if you don't want the 55 engine I'll take it from you for free

[RemoLexi]

No the 202 modules I'm assuming won't communicate with 211 modules, It would be mind blowing to swap all chassis harness along with modules, cluster, shifter module assembly, and so on.

[Pagz]

Hi Dennis,
Yes sure it cost as much to import it as it did to purchase it!,I had grown tired of waiting for one to turn up locally, It has been nearly 3 years since I begun looking.

Because It was purchased sight unseen I was a bit surprised,apart from the a-piller damage It was in better condition than the C43 in nearly every aspect!, The chassis will be sent to a scrap dealer in the next few weeks.

The 208/210 cluster is functional in the 202 and displays temp,clock,distance,odo,warnings like "lights on" when you forget to turn them off and also system faults when they happen ,however you cannot use the majority of LCD functions/settings unless you run the steering wheel,steering angle sensor with extra wires and any other parts needed, I intend to run the 208 controls/airbag wheel however I would like the to get the steering wheel SlammedC has in black leather and paint the airbag to suit. 208 colours are not very suited to the 202.
I will take a few more shots for you, the only give away they are joined together is a fine line around the gauges, which you cant see unless up really close.
Also nearly all outer lcd on 208/210 cluster suffer from ribbon failure as they are glued to the cct board, mine had been repaired by using spacers to apply more pressure to the ribbon and was working 100% until I pulled it apart alot now I need to clean the ribbons and reattach them.

I know for sure that the euro CLK55 started life as ME2.0 in 99 and from 06/00 was ME2.8,I have not researched these dates on the 210. however If your donor 208/210 has ME2.0 then I'm confident you will have the same engine harness plugs as your C43, I believe ME2.8 uses various different parts like the throttle body etc which means more parts from your C43 would need swapping over like engine harness and any other sensors/actuators specific to ME2.8.

I feel millage plays a minor part in the M113 condition, its whether or not they have been run on synthetics or lessor grade oils for extended periods. My C43 has only done 94000km's but I have an engine ticking noise that does not sound like lifters and gets louder with RPM, the service history shows the oil was not changed between 30,000 and 60000 and then topped up with 3.5L, the oil cooler has also been replaced or seals replaced, ...Very suspect indeed - this is one of the drivers to replace it with the 5.4, I cant wait to get it out and check the 4.3 internally.

Thanks Dennis, It should keep me entertained for some time ;);)

EDIT: clk55 ME2.0 ECU is upto ident F136789 except code 801 and from ident F136790 with code 800.(but wiring diagram detail shows ME2.8 happened around 06/00 ) the clk55 I have is code 800 F158434
210 E55 with ME2.0 was for upto 30/6/00, after that is ME2.8, ECM's starting with A026/029 were ME2.0, A031/A113 are ME2.8 as far as i can extract from EPC.



Regards,

[Pagz]

Remo,
There was a damaged e55k for sale here recently,ironically it went for around what I payed for the clk55, I didnt buy it as I thought trying to mechanically retrofit all the modules and extra engine parts plus wiring would be hard work, I'm glad you confirm it! ;)

[RemoLexi]

I've had a w203 C55 / 55k swap lurking in the back of my head!

[Pagz]

That sounds much more doable!! ;)

[Pagz]

Dennis,
Heres a shot of where the housings meet, When cutting the housing I lost around 1mm of hieght due to finishing and blade movemnt etc, the cone shape angles mean the more you loose in height the more you expose when finished. slow and steady is key.

Its not perfect but close enough vs effort....

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[kowalski]

Dennis,
Heres a shot of where the housings meet, When cutting the housing I lost around 1mm of hieght due to finishing and blade movemnt etc, the cone shape angles mean the more you loose in height the more you expose when finished. slow and steady is key.

Its not perfect but close enough vs effort....

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thanks for sharing.
gives your car a different looks with the fejslift speedo

the newer facelift clusters for clk and w210 AMG cars seems to be inferior in build quality compared to our c43 clusters?
i've never seen a c43 cluster with faded lcd, i've seen many fokked up lcd displays on the other cars.

if you had bought my prefacelift w210 AMG cluster and swapped some of the parts between clusters you still would have had the original looks but with a 300 scale instead of the 280.

while you're working on your project don't forget to take important snapshots and share them with us!
good luck and god speed.

[RemoLexi]

Paul so your trying to swap many of the critical module off the 208 into the 202?

[Pagz]

Dennis,
Not a problem!

Yes sure it looks more updated,this is one reason to go with the newer cluster and also has tiptronic display, I prefer it over the white it matches well with sports interior!. VDO make clusters for many manufactures, even the bmw boys get faulty lcd's from similar failures,apart from cost I dont understand why VDO glue the ribbon rather than using proper connectors, it is the only part that fails luckily it can be repaired.

Thanks ...I will keep my point and shoot camera on me as much as possible! ;)

One more shot front on:
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[Pagz]

Remo,
As you know I've sort of gone out on a really big limb here by making assumptions from the EPC/WIS and what is currently installed in the ME2.0 CLK55 and code 809 C43,so until it actually happens I can only make these sort of assumptions/unknowns:


1. When ME2.8 comes in around 06/00 ESP,TCM,DCM's and SAM(plus other sensors etc) also update, I assume this is due to CAN system/data changes so not ideal for 202 ME2.0 moduels.

2. ME2.0 CLK55 has SAM specific to 208 55 only, I assume due to added features like command ,lighting etc that 202 did not have, normal 208 uses 202 SAM. may need to use this not sure yet.

3. My 809 C43 ESP module is A 025 545 61 32 , the clk55 module I have is A029 545 70 32,This number does not show up in my 2012 EPC when searching with clk55 VIN, however when you search on the part number it comes back as used in tiptronic 202's/C43 and the Clk320/430. so they are same module.

4. ME2.0 CLK55 ESP sensors are same on C43 with esp.

5. 208 Interior control modules OCP ,LCP, TAC/AAC are major differences in individual construction but tie into other systems in a similar/same way. hopefully no issues there.

6.TCM in Tiptronic C43 vs ME2.0 CLk55 is A021 545 88 32 vs A021 545 89 32.. both egs51.

7. Multifunction steering wheel needs updated 5 wire angle sensor and wiring to cluster so that horn and fucntions go via cluster(also horn needs one wire to EIS)*EDIT - and also updated CLK55 indicator arm to hold 5 wire plug.

8. Stoplamp switch update with correct plugs.

9. ME2.0 CLK55 TCM harness is same as tiptronic C43,drops in along with stoplamp plug pin.

10. CAN from cluster to Radio to utilise multifunction steering wheel to radio commands

Without a doubt the best swap for the ME2.0 CLK55 is to an original Tiptronic C43, the ME2.0 CLK55 is basically a two door tiptronic 202 C55. So swapping is of course harder into code 808/809 C43 but at least i have fully working CLK55 to use parts from.

Plenty of hurdles to come I'm sure! ;)

Regards,

Edit - will make the parts list into a more formal list shortly,currently on holiday and my vb disconnects my wifi when I run EPC =)

[RemoLexi]

But what will you gain swapping all of those modules? The type 6 tip tronic really wasn't much more craze over vs. typ6 gate

[Pagz]

Totally agree dude..Tiptronic is not necessary at all, Only swapping what is necessary to run the clk55's TCM,ECM,ICM,steering wheel,Drivetrain and engine,only reason I want the tip is to complete the system over the CAN so the ICM and TCM are happy and also to match the updated park/EIS locking wire.

As much as everyone says C43 ECM is fine I prefer to do it right and run the clk55 maps with the 5.4 rather than C43 ECU(In my mind anyway), I don't want to go through flashing or tuning modules.

In the beginning to keep it simple I was intending to try use just the CLK55 ECM,TCM EIS with the gate shifter ,however looking into it there are to many unhappy campers, it's very unlikely the clk55 TCM anolog input terminals designated as not used for the gate shifter would work if I wired the gate to it.

I mention swapping the ESP module because I think it is likely related to the 2.82 Diff ratio or the tiptronic system... your view?

Cheers,

[kowalski]

pagzie are u fitting the complete clk55 rear axle/diff on your c43?

[Pagz]

Hey Dennis,

Yes plan is to run the clk55's A220 2.82 diff with matching axles,outer drive flanges and 4 finger prop shaft ..AFAIK same as the C55 has.

Zayed suggested keeping the C43 drive system,I think this is fine if you swap the engine only, however if I run the CLK55 ECM I dont think I can run the C43 TCM with tiptronic so need the CLK55 TCM which is set to 2.82 diff.

Another option he mentioned might work was to run the 808/809 E55 TCU with C43 ECM to get 2.82 ratio, however I think that would only be suitable for the C43 ECM.

Regards,

[kowalski]

hey bud

this will be an trial n error modification.
you'll be the first to do this.
i hope everything works out and only will be bolt on for you without headache.

good luck and keep us updated with text and pictures.

[RemoLexi]

Why would you worry about the gear ratio, pretty sure C43, CLK55 ect all had a 2.82, so you can swap the diffs and the ETC or ESP modules won't even know!

I believe you can code C55 202 software into your stock ME. It wouldn't be any different then CLK55 software.

[Pagz]

Hey Dennis,
I'm looking forward to the challenge!, I have always wanted the newer ICM and 5.4 engine, the plan is to make a factory look install out of it.

Yes sure thing, plenty of pics to come ;)

Remo,
Pretty sure all C43's are 3.07? ( 202 housing - 185mm crown)

Yes exactly the reason I want the CLK55 ECM,I'm sure it will be same as C55 tuning seeing as they use possibly the same exhaust,the CLK55 front portion and cats are all 202 C43 parts,the rear muffler looks like a modified C43 one to suit the bumper(just cut and welded down the outer side).
I have read the C55 uses a different centre muffler, Ironically the CLK55 centre muffler is different part number(#208) to C43, It should fit the 202. I will compare them later this week.

I've had a look through the ME2.0 ECM on C43 and there is no option to code anything in developer, I think it maybe only possible on ME2.8?....

[RemoLexi]

You're right. 3.07 it is! Then why would you want the 2.82 ??

Pretty sure you can change the variant coding. You need to contact Beckman.

[Pagz]

Remo,
Some say the 2.82 is only needed for top end, however I think MB would not put that in the CLk55 if it adversely effected bottom end to much.

The main reasons I want to run the 2.82 is because the C55 does and to keep CLk55 modules happy.

Other thoughts that make me want the 2.82 are the larger 4-finger prop shaft...I can only assume MB runs this for higher torque applications,why bother running it on the M113 5.4 if not matched to the torque of the engine? it also saves me swapping the trans output flange.

I will check again on the coding. Thanks for the heads up I will contact Beckman and find out what they know on ME2.0

Cheers

[RemoLexi]

Yea I am pretty sure you can code the 2.0 ME to 5.4 mapping, leaving all the other modules alone. I would think the 3.07 with a 5.4 would be more peppy then with a 2.82.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the driveline would handle it- I've only seen 1 incident of a 4-finger driveline snapping in half (113k heavy modded, drag raced)

[Pagz]

I had a better look through the ECM coding ,the initial script says something like " only code new modules" - so it appears you can only change it when the module is new??... there are options like transfer the coding, download and view coding ,use VIN to find coding or enter coding manually from factory data. As I was viewing this on the C43 I did not try to enter the CLK55 VIN and hit enter,hmm though I doubt it would have worked?.
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I did however finally figure out the major differences in the C43/CLK55 exhausts. Only on comparing them side by side does it become evident - the CLK55 centre muffler is identical to C43 externally and internally, however the dogleg part of the pipe steps some 15mm more to allow clearance around the larger Diff, this of course matches in with the Rear muffler.
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The rear muffler is slightly different than I first thought,apart from the obvious cutout to match the CLK bumper and dogleg to clear the diff, Unlike the C43 the exhaust tips are dead straight,the tips are higher up (which match in with my C36 kit much better) and the muffler body is dead straight. The C43 muffler body has a slight angle as you can see in the pics. The CLK55 mufflers fit so the plan is to use this with the conversion.
The burning question is what does the C55 use? its likely to use the 208.374 centre muffler...but what is the rear? maybe a one off set of ~60 just for the C55?. I'll have to ask the local C55 owner to check the part# next time he's under there.
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[Pagz]

Here's a few shots of the 5.4, Really happy with how the internals look ,with extended oil changes this must have been run on synthetics its whole life, my C43 is gold/brown and has much less km's,yuck.

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[RemoLexi]

Are you in SDS simulation mode?

Ill try to find out for you how to change the coding.

On my C36 we had a custom code provided by Beckman, but we did NOT have to send out the ME to unlock it. I have not coded a C43 ME to 5.4 spec, though I know several master techs @MB that have including one who was a shop foreman (and was his own car) it's was a simple task

[Abbaso]

Here's a few shots of the 5.4, Really happy with how the internals look ,with extended oil changes this must have been run on synthetics its whole life, my C43 is gold/brown and has much less km's,yuck.

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Looks good glad you got a good motor for the swap.
Good luck

[Cm60K]

Here's a few shots of the 5.4, Really happy with how the internals look ,with extended oil changes this must have been run on synthetics its whole life, my C43 is gold/brown and has much less km's,yuck.

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Hey Paul,

The first thing, if you want to swap 4.3 with 5.4, the only thing you have to swap is the Engine,

its NOT possible to change the ratio from 3.07 to 2.82, cause ECU & TCU should to be married with all ratio signals from the speed sensor & RPM,,

if you want to make your C43 as an original C55, you will need to swap everything,

(ECU/TCU/all Engine & gear harness/keyless infrared switch/steering lock/gear assembly/driveshaft with flanges),

which side you want to path with....??

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Remo,
Good point, I had not been back into simulation since I purchased, The reason I obtained a developer key in the first place was after I noticed how many more options there were in the simulator haha.

Looking back into it ,for some reason simulator only brings up ME2.8...even when you input my C43 VIN etc it comes back with 202.033 - ME28 It is slightly different menu's/options than I described ME2.0!

Would your 97 C36 have been ME2.0? Do you know if it was easier to convert to manual seeing as the I6 did come with manual options?

Was trying to avoid bringing this up as I'm sure its a much larger worm can=),a manual C55 is my ultimate goal.
The 711.670 NSG510 manual 6 speed trans uses a 2.47 rear end, I was hoping in the long run the 2.82 would be a better suit if I ever change to it, one thought was to build a plug in module that simulated what the TCM wanted to see from the speed sensors ,valves and temp...I'm sure its possible with time haha. Coding out would be the preferred option.

If you find out any more from your MB guys let me know!.

[Pagz]

Just arrived in the mail this morning!... I could have done with this years ago...

This confirms the C55 uses the 208.374 centre muffler, but ironically the A202# rear muffler does not show up in EPC =) .

The Sub frame is A202# and does not show up either but I'd bet its a clk55 sub frame... All other parts seem to be related to 208 CLK55 except that funny A208# air-air trans cooler?...which again doesn't show up in EPC..

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[Cm60K]

W208 sharing more than 70% parts with W202,

CLK55 center muffler & rear muffler almost 99% the same, and can be swappable easily,,

I think CLK55 using the Radiator cooler room (as trans. cooler), but not soo sure about that....!!

ZAYED,,

[RemoLexi]

On my 97' C36 I want to say its ME2.0

All we did was code it to ignore faults via CAN from the ETC, since the type 6 was no longer there. That way, the ME didn't light up the check engine light causing me to fail emmisions test.

With the ETC coded out and removed, at that point you can swap any diff ratio you want, because I don't think ESP would be able to tell. Mine was an ASR car.

There's nothing measuring driveline speed, I believe traction control only focuses on the yaw rate sensor and looks to see if any of the 4 wheels are fluctuating speed.

So again, Beckman can provide the custom coding to teach your ME 2.0 to ignore ETC communication as well as 5.4l mapping. Once you achieve that, you can slap any diff you want and any transmission that you can fit.

[Pagz]

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[Pagz]

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[Pagz]

Zayed,
I trial fitted the CLK55 mufflers they do fit however not sure if the tips would be too high for C43 bumper.

CLK55 uses a #202 radiator that combines trans cooler on right side, these have been known to fail in the 2002 - 2006 MB, I am not sure if this is susceptible to the same problems. It looks like I could run the cooler lines and radiator in the C43.

Cheers,

[Cm60K]

On my 97' C36 I want to say its ME2.0

All we did was code it to ignore faults via CAN from the ETC, since the type 6 was no longer there. That way, the ME didn't light up the check engine light causing me to fail emmisions test.

With the ETC coded out and removed, at that point you can swap any diff ratio you want, because I don't think ESP would be able to tell. Mine was an ASR car.

There's nothing measuring driveline speed, I believe traction control only focuses on the yaw rate sensor and looks to see if any of the 4 wheels are fluctuating speed.

So again, Beckman can provide the custom coding to teach your ME 2.0 to ignore ETC communication as well as 5.4l mapping. Once you achieve that, you can slap any diff you want and any transmission that you can fit.

97 may got ME1.0, isn't....??

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Thanks Remo,
So there could well be an easy way out for the manual setup on the C43!!, I will definitely have a chat with Beckman!

Cheers,

[Cm60K]

Yes Paul, CLK55 rear muffler needs a little twist & top rubber mount bracket job to fit, soo easy,,

CLK55 uses exactly the same C43 Radiator, but with C43 will not need the cooler holes for cool the trans.....

ZAYED,

[Pagz]

Zayed,

You have fitted CLK55 mufflers before?

Yes the rear muffler top hanger needs "tweak" maybe 10mm to make it sit perfect, did you also modify the rubber hanger?

That makes sense, EPC show the CLK55 radiator fitted(updated) to C43 but does not show cooler lines to use the internal cooler. The CLK55 one is in a new condition, I will use this but retain the original C43 trans cooler.

Regards,

[Cm60K]

Yes sure, i fitted CLK55 muffler in my friends C36, around "4" years ago,

as i remember; we twist the muffler bracket & customized with lowered the top hanger to avoid touching the bumper, but honestly, not sure how many mm we lowered it,,

trans. cooler is not a big thing, it depend to your optional to cool the trans....:D

ZAYED,,

[Sulaco]

Neither of my C43's have the transmission cooler attached to the radiator. Just FYI (one is a 98 the other a 99).

My 1994 C280 and 1994 E320 both had the attached transmission cooler.

[Pagz]

Looks good glad you got a good motor for the swap.
Good luck

Thanks yes big sigh of relief when i removed the cam cover ;)

[Pagz]

Zayed,
Thanks, I may run a spacer too just in case the tips are too much heat for the bumper!

Sulaco,
Thanks for the info, I think I will keep the C43 cooler the way it is and plug up the holes on the CLK55 radiator, the C43 radiator I have has finer fins but they have been damaged by another owner whilst removing the viscous at some stage so would be nice to change it out.

[RemoLexi]

Paul you get my message on your info page? I am soo bummed all my hard work is wasted. My poor ole' blue. =[

[Pagz]

Yeh dude you should have got a response through? I'm bummed too it was a really nice 36,was my old flywheel still in it?

[RemoLexi]

I'm using the club202 Mobil version and can't figure out how to send private messages. (Or I'm just retarded) I can only reply.

But yea the flywheel/clutch is still in it, was set up for oversteer so that's exactly what it did, snapped around backwards, crossed 2 oncoming lanes and ended up a tree.

[kowalski]

did you crash your c36?

[RemoLexi]

No I sold it a few months ago, ill post a sep. thread.

[Sulaco]

the C43 radiator I have has finer fins but they have been damaged by another owner whilst removing the viscous at some stage so would be nice to change it out.

if you end up with a spare C43 radiator that doesn't leak, I'm in need of one...

[Pagz]

Sulaco,
Sure will let you know if I decide to sell!.

Interesting thought for you guys, how much lubrication do valve guides need? they need some to prolong there life...but not too much or fouling and consumption occur.

I didn't think too much of it whilst looking at these exhaust ports...
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Then I saw these two and was like daaem!!!... my ocd means I'm going to have to do a seal job even if this is normal leakage ...they are not leaking equally^^
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[RemoLexi]

We were just arguing on valve lubrication with a customers extended warranty company! (10' Audi 2.0T engine failure)

What are you worried about with those exhuast ports? You think valve seals are leaking? (I would argue with you on that)

I wouldn't worry about any of the internals on a 113. Unless you have money burning lava out of your wallet!

[Pagz]

Hit the nail on the head there, I think it looks minor too!!... but they are not leaking equally...seriously though I dont know if I can stop myself from replacing them haha(especially since the engine is out of the car)

I read very little about valve seal jobs on the M112/M113 , rings seem to be another story,imo I think dino juice and extended intervals kill them quickly.

The C43 blows a small amount of blue on startup ,there is evidence of oil on the lower threads of half the spark plugs, I will have the engine out for a look this week seals could be leaky and/or ring wear getting up there. ICM shows some monkey ran it for 30,000km's and then topped it up 3.5L. I use to get similar oil on the spark plugs of the c230 turbo..about 2 threads up when the rings would not bed in. anything below that burns off.

No surprise the spark plugs on the CLk55 had no oil on the threads, the engine has been really well maintained.

[Pagz]

Another question I cant fathom...why when sealing the upper pan to crankcase did MB design it so that some of the bolt holes are inside the sealant?? There must be a good reason surely....please

[RemoLexi]

Not sure what you mean by some bolt holes inside the sealant?

Paul, throw that engine in and don't touch it. It's easily a 400k miles before you will find ring wear.

Blue (possibly white) smoke on startup is normal with all the 113's we have, parking the cars in and out of our shop (extended stay vehicles) its carbon buildup from the engine not getting a good blast down the highway, just short start/stops aren't very good for the engine

[Pagz]

Ok ok ok deep down I know your probably right =P but I'm definitely doing sump sealing,front and rear seals and checking chain stretch(when my locators finally arrive) ...Still debating the valve seals but I dont have the right compressor for it with heads on.

I've heard the sticky rings issue before too most recommend a good thrashing!. I don't think this is the case on my C43, my money is on a worn chain causing my low rpm grumble and ticking noise in the higher rpm...will be super interesting to go over it when it's out this week.

When running the new bead of 5970 around the upper oil pan, there is 9 bolts which are oil side of the seal and the rest are outside, I guess I will need to seal the bolts otherwise it will leak from the bolt holes like my C43 does!

Also do you guys use 5900 instead of 5970 over there? I can get 5900 so much cheaper here just wondering how comparable it is to the genuine MB stuff.

[Pagz]

arh, disregard, I didn't realize the bolts lead inside the lower sump

[RemoLexi]

What's 5970 / 5900?

We use the MB sealant that requires the MB sealant gun.

[RemoLexi]

And a lot of the "ticking noise" is weak cam followers. I've had that on my c36, it would especially get loud at the track where running through constant turns dried up the valve train as well as oil losing viscosity.

[Pagz]

According to epc 5970 is the MB sealant. unconfirmed but I've read some MB dealerships use 5900 in place of this, I guess this was not the case for you?

Still waiting to here back about the caulking gun, when I purchased 5970 from MB last time I used a large washer to mount the 50ml cartidge into a regular 300ml gun, it worked ok but the proper tool would be much better.

Hmm weird thing about my ticking noise is it gets quieter as the oil thins up , is only audible above 2500rpm and it gets louder until rpm limit. The grumbling noise <1500 is always there. Clk55 didn't sound anything like this.

[RemoLexi]

Ill check the p/n when I get to work tomorrow. I have the p/n on the gun also, ill snap a pic for you

[Pagz]

Awsome ,thanks!

[Cm60K]

As i know; [[59xxx & 69xxx & 89xxx & 99xxx]],

all these #s refers to the companies which they got a contract with MB to producing all kind of sealant components.....

ZAYED,,

[RemoLexi]

P/n on the gun is 112 589 00 25 00

Silicone I forgot to check as I've ran out the other day.

[Cm60K]

P/n on the gun is 112 589 00 25 00

Silicone I forgot to check as I've ran out the other day.

If you mean an original MB sealant,

it comes with "003 989 98 20/10"

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Remo,
Thanks! One of the local dealers finally got back to me and I've ordered the caulking gun, it is the same part number you have!

Zayed,
That's the stuff, in WIS it is also referenced as Loctite 5970, which would be great if sold locally but no...only over in UK..

A little more detail on the CLK55 conversion,
I pulled the C43 motor, there is zero oil from the valve seals at 95km's,even if the seals on the 5.4 are minor they are beginning to fail so will definitely do them.

Now that the C43 is stripped and dash is out I've had the tunnel add-ons side by side and it is easily doable,the updated sound deadening and cable trays all slide right in. The diff recess should fit fine also, ironically the sound deadening above is pre-cut for this diff recess in the boot,so MB knew this would be fitted to the CLK55/C55 boot well before 98!.
1877

The prop shaft uses same diameter flexi's but with the 4-finger, I find it hard to see how this would be any more durable than the 3 finger,maybe its not for durability but rather less flex!.
1878

Even though the shaft and spline size is same, the universal is larger in the CLk55.
1879

[Pagz]

Also,epc is a bit vague with which 202 uses the internal trans cooler,part search shows ti was fitted to 093 C43, C43 direct search shows not fitted. what I do know is there is not enough room to bolt the upper hose in my 99 C43. Maybe only few late 202 had cut out for this. Given the C43 cooler is perfect for the job I will install blanks on the internal cooler.
1880

[Cm60K]

Paul,

Prefer if you can go with separator trans. air cooler, to avoid big headache from oil water mixture could

happen in future....

ZAYED,,

[SLAMMED_C]

a lot has happened here Paul!!
congrats on the CLK55 donor car, its been a long time coming!!
Just curious to know if that CLK55 rear subframe will fit?
I would run a separate trans oil cooler as well.. the one in the rad is sufficient, however an aftermarket cooler core would probably do more good to cool than the stock small one. and you have no worries about leaking coolant into trans fluid (although i think that was only on a few of the older rads).

[John Jones Jr.]

Just got around to reading this thread now, great stuff Pagz. You may or may not be aware but there are several of these transplants carried out by members on http://www.mbclub.co.uk/ and also a couple done by Merc specialists on their own private cars. Might be worth a read up on.

[Pagz]

Ross!, HELLO=) hows the family?
It has been a long time coming thats for sure!, the subframe is a really interesting one, I sat the C43/CLk55 side by side , they messure up the same...wierd thing is the non amg 208 does use the 202 subframe, however the clk55 has a unique part number...but I cant find any differences in it. next visit I will have a better look to confirm. EDIT - I wonder if the subframe comes fitted with rear diff mounts from new? If so this could be why the CLK55 has 208 subframe part number as the diff rubbers are same size but W208 AMG part number instead of IIRC A129 or A202 parts in the regular 208/202's.

Zayed, Ross, As for the trans cooler I totally agree, my parents 2006 S320cdi one failed last year and caused a tranny rebuild(they purchased this car new in 2006). Ironically though, is this concept really any different to the C43 external cooler? imo it just the same only external?....I do like the fact the coolant heats the trans fluid to operation temp, I've not had much luck with good running temps with air-air stuff, its the way the termostates work by allowing some bypass at all times.

John, thankyou for the link, Over the years I have read and followed nearly every build I can find from US,UK and various other places including translating ones from germany^^...I never came accross solid info on swapping everything from tiptronic CLK55 to non tip C43, I dont think it happens too often however plenty change diffs, engines and trans's from amg 55's and the information is out there...its just not all in one spot and is often missing important detail.

[RemoLexi]

Sounds like my TDi transmission build.. No info!

[John Jones Jr.]

John, thankyou for the link, Over the years I have read and followed nearly every build I can find from US,UK and various other places including translating ones from germany^^...I never came accross solid info on swapping everything from tiptronic CLK55 to non tip C43, I dont think it happens too often however plenty change diffs, engines and trans's from amg 55's and the information is out there...its just not all in one spot and is often missing important detail.

The one guy that I'm fairy sure could assist you is Olly, http://www.prestigecarservice.co.uk/. He(C55 Black) is a sponser of that site and I'd say there's little he doesn't know about doing that conversion, his W202 C55 has just about been max'ed out as as far a modifications go from what I understand. Helpful guy even if it's not practical for you to be a customer. Imo he's worth shooting off an email to.

[Pagz]

Thanks John,yes seen more than a few topics by that name =) will flick him an email! cheers.

Remo,
Its a bit like the LCD W210 cluster...I've seen it fitted many times to various 202 but very few mention it actually doesn't fit the 202 dash...haha.

[winks911]

WOW,
I admire the way you are going about this,Its similar to y swap except mine was a 2000 with tip so everything worked well. I'm about to install a Quaife clk55 diff on my c43/c55 with a renntech supercharger I'm not sure if the rear diff is a straight swap except for the tcu programming or do I change the axles as well?
Keep up the good work.

[Cm60K]

Which diff. ratio you want to go with....??

ZAYED,,

[RemoLexi]

I've plugged in a 210 cluster in a 202 before and it fit directly ....

[Pagz]

Winks,
Thanks!,Have you a link for your project? I'd be interested to read!.
I would like to reply with 100% certainty however I have not fitted the CLk55 rear yet,I am hoping to in the next few weeks.
In the interim,Im confident that Mechanically the CLk55 diff will bolt into the W202 subframe,The rear diff mounts are specific to CLK55 - they are same size but could be harder I suspect.
The CLK55 and C55 run a small cutout above the diff to allow the larger 220 diff to fit so im sure you will need this also.
I think you will need to change the CLK55 axles in to suit the diff, and also maybe the outer drive flanges to suit the Axles, the flanges are a different part for some reason but fit into the W202 bearing carrier. I intend to swap the CLK55 rear end complete so will not be disassembling this.
I am not sure if the diff input flange shifts slightly with the larger housing(Zayed,Remo?),If not you could possibly just change over the 3 finger input flange from your C43,if the diff flange does shift you may want to change over your trans output flange to 4 finger type and run the CLK55 prop shaft.

Edit, Can you check if your tiptronic C43 has the boot cutout,you will be able to see it from above by removing the electrical cover in the boot.. wouldn't be suprised if they used the boot made for the CLK55 in the 2000 model C43.

Remo,
W210 cluster plugs in electrically and also is the same shape as the dash cutout, however sticks out the bottom alittle when installed,heres a shot side on..
1882

Cheers

[RemoLexi]

When you speak of diff input flanges are you talking about the axle flanges ? 6-bolt? Then yes, when I installed a larger diff, the axles bolted up fine but the slightly wider diff size took up some of the large amount of side to side slop the axles normally have. No mechanical failures resulted afterwards at all.

[RemoLexi]

After reading carefully! Yes! The input flange shifted off to the side slightly!! Make sure the driveline and diff are lined up!! I had to find out the hard way! I had a shutter at first and then found this,

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/C4D476FE-02D8-49C2-9001-157F19354F54-2604-000000903E83BDAB_zps982a8a41.jpg

[Cm60K]

when I installed a larger diff, the axles bolted up fine but the slightly wider diff size took up some of the large amount of side to side slop the axles normally have. No mechanical failures resulted afterwards at all.

Good info. Remo,

Do you install the larger diff. from CLK55, if yes, how you deal with ECU/TCU reprogram....??

E55/CLK55 will direct swap to the C43 subframe, including side flanges & axles, this is an easy mechanical thing,

the point that we have to worry about is the TCU, how to let TCU to accept 2.82...?>!<?

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Remo,
Thanks,wonder why they change the axles and outer flanges on the CLK55 if not nessasary?. I will take lots of measurments on my next trip.

Zayed, if the original car is an ME2.0 C43 tiptronic, could he use the ME2.0 CLK55 TCU? or would there be a conflict with the tiptronic 631 vs 636 trans?, people say they are same ratios but im not so sure...

Regards,

[Cm60K]

631 & 636 sharing the same ratio, and all internals are the same either, not necessary to go with 636, unless if you want to put CLK55 driveshaft,

if you have ME2.0 with Tiptronic, that means you have an ESM controller in the Tiptronic shifter itself, then you can modified the ECU to use a CLK55 TCU with 2.82 diff....

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Zayed,
Fabian mentioned there is additional clutch pack in 636? is this true?.

So Tiptronic C43 ECU would need flashing to run ME2.0 CLK55 TCU?

Regards,

[Cm60K]

Paul,

When i opened these "2" gears, i didn't see any internals difference between them, the only difference i noticed is the cable wire at the back of the gear (that holds the shift position when the car is off), that is not a big thing, and the V/B part # is updated in the 636, to match the last software of the TCU with an ESM/Tip. shifter,,

if you have Tip. C43, you can use CLK55 TCU without flashing it, also you can use CLK55 ECU/TCU with a key switch together to make it work easily......

ZAYED,,

[Pagz]

Zayed, Remo,
Do you guys have any experience with timing checks on the M113?

On the 113.984 WIS says the used chain timing calls for 25 ATDC @ 2mm lift on the intake valve both sides of the V.

When I test this I am using my dial gauge onto the centre of the top of the rocker directly above the lifter, I'm doing this to remove lash from the lifter...Is this acceptable?

The readings I get are 31 ATDC both sides, which I would have thought if chain stretch was apparent there would have been noticeable difference in values between the two sides. (when I go direct onto the valve its about 35 ATDC)

Now what is interesting, when you install the cam locking plates you install the right hand first, then when installing the left hand you need to turn the cam sprocket anticlockwise some ~2-3 degrees to allow the locking plate to bolt down.(yes never turn anticlockwise)

Now assuming there is no chain stretch due to the fact the values are equal both sides, Is it more than likely the play is coming from guide rail and/or idler pully?.

Your thoughts?
1904

[DRBC43AMG]

I have also just read this thread. Great project and I'm subscribing to follow progress.

[RemoLexi]

Cm60k, I have never dealt with the etc coding at all, I coded it out completely and ran a manual 6-speed. After the etc was removed I can put any ratio I want.

Paul, as far as timing with the 113 I can't say I've ever had to do one at all. That's answer enough right there!

[RemoLexi]

I used a diff from a R129. It required fabrication and removal of the rear subframe. Unfortunaly I have no pictures, and after I sold the car it was wrapped around a tree, damaging the rear subframe.

[Cm60K]

Cm60k, I have never dealt with the etc coding at all, I coded it out completely and ran a manual 6-speed. After the etc was removed I can put any ratio I want.

Manual gear doesn't need any code, and its good idea...:rolleyes:,,

i wish if i can get any ratio with auto gear, but seems like TCU got A big mouth & always say to me; EVEN NOT IN YOUR DREAMS.....:mad:

ZAYED,,

[AMG KC]

Putting the 55 engine in the C43 would have to make it pretty bloody fast wouldnt it? What sort of zero to 100 times would you get from just swapping the engine only?

Are you looking to change the diff cause you want to add LSD or because you dont feel the C43 diff will hold up to the extra power?

This is a swap i would possibly consider doing later on down the line if an E55 comes up are the right price...

[Sulaco]

The stock c43 diff can handle it no problem. Lots of c43s out there with 55 engines. You dont even need to swap ecu or anything. Ive actually never seen anyone properly measure performance metrics on a c43/55. Ive been curious myself. My car currently gets 0-60 in 5.6, but what would another 50 hp do?

[AMG KC]

How much extra torque is there? Add to the fact the car is smaller and lighter as well as having a higher diff ratio, it should almost be a flat 5 seconds.

[AMG KC]

391 ft/lbs i found, so thats quite alot more torque over the 302 or whatever the C43 has standard.

[Pagz]

DRB,
Cheers!, Currently waiting for a free weekend to start assembly so hope to have updates soon.

Remo,
Thanks, what interests me about the timing chain is there are more than a few instances on the net where an M113 timing chain has been repaced due to low rpm grumbling noises apparently caused by stretch(well that's the reason they give), but no where do you find people actually checking to see if they may need a replacement soon. I wonder why WIS gives a value for used chain 2mm lift?(in the case of M113.984 its 25 ATDC)...I can only assume the value is a maximum?

Would the ECU flag the difference in cam pickup vs crank pickup with stretch?

Few people also mention these engines get more powerful with age,maybe its just the chain stretches/retards and the power moves further up the power band^^.

KC,
I'm only changing the diff because I want the complete C55 system,the CLK55 TCU will be looking for 2.82, people say it is not nessasary to change the smaller C43 diff if you intend to run the 5.4 engine only(because you are not changing the TCU).
It wasnt nessasary to change the gearbox in my turbo 202 either but I found alot of metal fillings on the magnet after very short distance^^.

[RemoLexi]

Yea the cam sensor will pick up stretch and set off cam position codes. Not going to lie, but I stubbornly refuse to believe chain stretch issues on a dual-row.

I've done over 15 chains on the 104 series, and yet to find one stretch.

It is however a common issue on the M271 motor (done about 5-8 of them) which is a single row, 1.8 kompressor.

[Pagz]

From what I see around the net single chains wear very quickly!.

My concern is that when I test at 2mm lift I have 6 degree's stretch above the value WIS gives and when the cam locks are in place the chain between the cams is considerably slack, enough to see down the guide rails. Is this normal?.

I'm obviously stubborn as well^^.

[RemoLexi]

I don't have a clear answer on that, could the gear in between be worn? It's the gear that would be a balance shaft on M272's (which fails all day long)

Also I'd imagine drenched in oil some of the slop it taken up.

[Pagz]

Good point, the oil would make a fair difference!

Interesting you mention the idler gear, which is same as balance shaft on M112 as well?....does the M113 pully run on a race or journal bearings?

Have you ever done a 2mm bead reseal job on the timing cover?, tricky to get tidy? WIS is fairly exsplicit to avoid damage from clogged oil ways. I've seen the nice machine they use at the factory, I'd imagine doing it by hand is no where near so perfect^^.

[Pagz]

Guys,

How do you check the camshaft number? Do you have to remove the sprocket to see it?...WIS says it's on the sprocket flange but it ain't there as far as I can see.

I ask because I checked the exhaust valve timing last night, the value should have been 35 BBDC but instead I got 25 BBDC, 10 degree stretch!? but hold on shouldnt it also be 6 degree off like the intake was...ironically the 31 on intake and 25 on exhaust lines up with specs for the M113 5.0L's.

Does anyone know why my part numbers like the timing case, flexi plate, water pump etc do not show up in EPC?.. they only show up as used parts when I google them.

[Cm60K]

Paul,

When you put your Vin #, all these part #s not appears....??

ZAYED,,

[RemoLexi]

It's been a while since I've done a front cover on a 113, I don't remember anything difficult. I also don't remember the bearing on the roller unfortunately.

[Pagz]

Zayed, When I enter VIN all parts show up but none are the same part numbers for the water pump, timing cover, flexi plate. When I search the part numbers without VIN they do not show up in EPC.

Remo,
Thanks, hard to tell from EPC but looks like the pully comes with a bearing race installed into it(assuming because there are no replaceable bearings or shells shown)

I'm starting to think that I have zero chain stretch and the cams are different spec to what WIS shows for the 113.984.

I'm going to pull the cam gears off tonight and see if there is a number on the cam flange.

[AMG KC]

Are the camshafts the same in the 55 engine as they are in the 43 or are they abit wilder?

[Pagz]

KC, the cams are different parts in EPC, so I woudl assume they are not the same design.

Remo, have you ever replaced cams on early M113 due to wear? I think the rest of my timing checks out but suspecting cams now, Also note in EPC it says do not use old stock of these cams...interesting

[RemoLexi]

Never heard of any cam issues..

[Pagz]

Seems very rare, only once on a C43 somone mentioned the dealer changed the cams under warrenty to repair a ticking noise so not really comparible.

If only my cams had numbers on them.

[AMG KC]

Does anyone know the lift and duration on both types?

[Pagz]

Sorry I dont have specs for you on these.

Remo, Zayed
looking in through the water pump ,the seal between the timing cover and block is split...looks split right through too not just surface, I would guess this eventually leads to milk?.

Have you come across this before?...

Have decided to do the valve seals from above so don't want to remove the heads or timing case.

1947

[RemoLexi]

Never seen that seal there, but I have to admit I never looked!

Yea you should be fine doing the seals with the heads on, you can force compressed air to hold the valve up in place, or with the cams out you can bring the piston up and the valve won't be able to fall in as it will lay on the piston.

[Pagz]

Replacing the seals behind the timing case requires disturbing the front portion of the head gaskets, I decided to just go through with a complete clean up of the timing system and take heads are off.
Bore looks good... apart from sucking out any carbon bit's I'm staying well away from that area.
195819591960

Of most interest was the guide rails, whilst not heavily worn I wouldn't have expected the clips on the upper rails to be split, or any areas that were worn through on the rails.
19611962

[Pagz]

Left rail, worn through a little at the base there, Makes you wonder what extended intervals on minerals would do to this engine!. I can see some wear on the load side of crank and cam sprockets,very little on the idler.
1963

Couple of shot's inside...amg cast into the underside of the piston,weights added to the crank for proper balance.
19641965

Other parts to be replaced will be the tensioner(didnt hold oil well) and the oil pump check valve,which had drained dry.

[AMG KC]

I must say it all looks very clean in there on the whole. How many klms on that engine?

[Pagz]

Very clean for 148km's, It looks to have been run on mobil1 at 18 - 20km interval from new. Even with synthetics I still feel that's too far between but lets not start that topic ;)

[AMG KC]

I used it in my Corvettes years ago but switched to Castrol when someone in Australia decided Mobil 1 should be about $80 for a 5ltr bottle of 5w30... Jumped from about $45 a bottle over night here.

I changed it about every 4,000 miles, but then it was no Mercedes Benz no matter how hard you pull.

[Pagz]

Yes not cheap stuff that's for sure!, I try to buy a few when its on special ;)

The C43 enigne has been run on minerals for some of its life it looks no where as clean inside, looking forward to checking the timing system on my next visit.

[AMG KC]

Mine has full service history and all state Mobil 1, so ill stick with that with this one.

[RemoLexi]

Yuck M1 here in the states sucks!

I run Pentosyn 5w40 & redline 15w50 in the Porsche

[Pagz]

Small update - Installing tip shifter tunnel add-on

Original gate setup
1970

Original add-on removed and hole cut for tip add-on
1971

Primed,painted, Installed with steel structural rivets and mb chassis seam sealant.
1972

Updated Insulation,cable tray and shifter from clk55, all fits well.
1973

Removed gate shifter harness and installed tip harness, replaced EIS,Steering lock,ESP ,TCU and ECM from CLK55. Locking system works with CLK55 key, though we are some time off starting the engine. Few more wiring changes to do.
1974

[RemoLexi]

Well, not to scare you or make you rip your hair out or anything, but this weekend for me consisted of removal / rebuild of a 722.6 on my wife's ML350...

So maybe a good idea since you have your dot6 out, open up and inspect the silent-slow self destructing gearbox!

Here's what happen to mine,

Out.
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/272B9EA7-09B6-45E6-B89D-25F12FF8A276-40135-000008D617A9011A_zps435667dd.jpg

All of this, including the valve body, front and rear planets, drums, all scrap metal!

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/4DB945B6-C0B0-4830-816C-072C69A26A94-40135-000008D636C869D6_zpsfeb24462.jpg

Here's a shot of the failed bearing/sprag, you can see behind the C-clip the ball bearing is wasted,

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/F5CA7A02-EC56-4A23-8B6D-AF4978E33FA9-40135-000008D6764BB48C_zps986a4484.jpg

So the shavings got into the clutches, causing complete loss of gear movement. Revs like in neutral.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/F2CBF364-8BF1-47B6-97E6-3F846E7E6C26-40135-000008D65C9AC7FD_zpsc3b12243.jpg

[Pagz]

Ouch I don't envy you!

I plan on staying well away from the insides of mine aside from a pilot/filter/fluid change,If It dies I will consider other options then!

What's it going to cost?

[Pagz]

Fitment is pretty good,maybe 1-2mm higher than the original but within tolerance.
1978

[AMG KC]

What rear end ratio will you end up with?

Is your car left hand drive?

[SD202]

clean job on that shift gate swap. you have great dedication to making this a complete swap. No cutting corners here! love it man

[Pagz]

KC, your from Australia right?
The larger CLK55 diff is 2.82

SD202,
Thanks man, I hope to make it as close to factory as possible!,It's really great having all the parts from the clk I never would have guessed so many parts changed with the 2000 tiptronic 202/208,it's definitly not a project you could do without a complete working donor. Next job is to install the cutout above the diff, should be far easier than the tip tunnel ;), this also uses the updated 202/208 cable tray behind the seats to clear the recess.

[AMG KC]

Im in Australia mate yes.

Did the factory C55s have that ratio or the same as the C43? Im just wondering what impact that may have on acceleration.

The gear ratios in the transmission must be pretty high compared to the likes of the GM 4L60, with a 3.33 rear end in a Corvette i was turning about 1,900rpm at 100kph, im quite abit above that in the C43, so 5th must be pretty near 1:1 in the 722.6 trans.

Im very keen to hear some numbers once you get this rig mobile, the extra 80 odd ft/lbs of torque should get it off the line very quick.

When you say "tiptronic", is it actually tiptronic or is it like the other Mercs with that shifter, where clicking - makes it shift to the next lowest gear below the one youre in, and clicking + makes the next gear available and does nothing til its ready to shift, or does it actually shift up instantly on demand like a tiptronic semi auto style system? For example if you were doing 20kph in second and clicked + twice, will it shift to 4th or stay in 2nd til its ready to shift?

If its the latter, i will be reasonbly glad ive got the full gated shifter there, although if it can be shifted up and down manually on demand, that would be fine. Occationally i like to lock back to 3rd, which i can do with mine no problem from any gear, however in my mum's W203 if im in 3rd and click -, it kicks down to second when all im wanting to do it prevent a shift to forth.

[Pagz]

KC,
We are same as you guys, rhd!.(please tell me you have been to NZ =P )

The factory 202 C55 uses the exact same CLK55 2.82 Diff, clk55 axels/hubs,clk55 4 Finger prop shaft, 722.636 trans ,the part number are different for the subframe but I suspect only because the bushes are harder/different part #,clk55 frame is visually identical and any other lower spec 208/202 share exact same subframe #. I have posted an original parts catalog of the C55 further back in this thread note the subframe number is not found in EPC i would suggest only because back then it was 202 frame with V8 mounts added which now updates to CLK55 subframe. the C55 comes with 722.636 gate shifted or tip, all they do is change the way the parking lock interfaces with the trans, ie via the EIS/brake pedal to the trans or direct from EIS to the tiptronic shifter and update modules to suit.

Since they wiegh the same,the car will have the same specs as the CLK55,so somewhere just over 5 seconds to 100, I have driven CLk55's before they feel much quicker than the C43 especially down low.

Tbh the tiptronic is awful, I'm only running it so I can keep the rest of the system happy! It is as you described kind of a "semi tiptronic" . it will change up when it needs to without request and you spend most of the time trying to anticipate when it will drop that gear you requested several seconds ago.
I would prefer the shifter to drop into a manual mode and instantly only change up or down on request, some guys in Germany have achieved similar to this through custom tuning and different valves and trans's.

For me I dont want to touch the auto,I just want to convert to manual.

[AMG KC]

I havent ever left Australia, no real interest in travel. I know youre RHD there yes, but i see there in a couple pics it looked like your car was a lefty, i didnt look at the pics on a computer. I know your regs for LHD vehicles are very lax compared to ours in Australia, where a lefty has little chance of seeing rego until it is a certain age.

When you say the 722.636, what does the C43 have? Isnt it the same? I havent driven a CLK55 or E55, but they do have significantly better performance figures.

If i am to go with a swap later on in time, ill quite likely just grab a good condition 99 E55 and swap the engines between the two, then sell the E55 as an E43. W210 E55s here are not that dear to buy compared to C43s.

[AMG KC]

Are you going to put the 2000 C43 wheels on? I noticed on the 2000 model i saw here they are 17" versions of the 5 spoke AMG wheels the later CLK55 had.

[RemoLexi]

The 722.6 out of a tip car is much more updated throughout vs. the non tip C43.

Has a different valve body, lots of sprags, bearings, clutches are all updated.

Paul since yours is out, assuming its in healthy shape, I would advise reading clutch wear w/SDS out of the clK55 etc. you may want to open it up and tighten up some tolerances, there's tons of guys on MBworld who have done so with 211/55's. there's also aftermarket upgrade drums / clutches you can install such as the K1 drum responsible for the 1-2shift!

In my case, I have damaged planets, drums ect. So I had to buy a used dot6!

[kowalski]

would a tiptronic transmission from a 2002 E55 AMG fit a 99 C43 AMG without tiptronic as a replacement?
manumatic shifts would still be the same as before with factroy gearbox
i was merely thinking when and if the 722.631 gearbox internally explodes in shrapnel, would the tip gearbox fit and perfectly match the c43 ECU shifting?

finding a matching number facelift E55 engine and gearbox would be great for C55 mod

[Pagz]

KC,
Fair enough! My partners Australian and her sister is in Melbourne,parents in Brisbourne so we travel over often!.;)

From what I understand Australian regs are very tight for imports(actually anything automotive related) , we have a quoter system for special imports maybe 200 - 250 per year, so it is possible to bring in a C43 or other low volume perfomance/classic/LHD/collectable etc however you must keep the vehicle for 2 or 4 years(think it's 4). Nothing complies prior to 2005 here due to impact and emmissions. Alternatively wait until 20 years old and you can import anything within reason.

C43 has a 722.631, I cannot comment on what internals change,however I know improvements are made between the 98 - 00 in the 722.631. the tip C43 still runs the 722.631, this doesnt mean its identical inside as Remo has mentioned. As for the 722.636, I have been told it has the same ratios but one more clutch pack...I dont know this for sure.

I did consider doing the same and swapping the 43 into a 55, however decided against it when I wanted to run the 55's ECM and trans as you need the rest of driver autherisation system, that and the fact you will get much less for a converted 55-43. when I purchased the CLk55 in Melbourne, there was a second one for sale with same 160km's, went for 3750Aud. you'd be better to pick up a 98/99 E55 for this price surely?.

The wheels on the tip C43 are updated like the clk55 but I plan to run these BBS's soon:
1982

[Pagz]

Remo,
Is the 722.631 tip in C43 simply updated for better life?, or is it updated because of the way the tip system works? from the list of local C43's tran's numbers I have here I can see revision increments from 98 to 99 models. ie all MY98's had "00" and our MY99's had "11" or "31", the C55 here has gated 722.636 with "01".

Good suggestion,I will try plug in this weekend and take a look - lots I didnt realise I can do with SDS!.

edit - in 99 for cost reason's mb stopped using a drain plug on the converter, so my 99 C43 has the drain and the CLk55 doesnt. Assuming they are the same? Do you think its worth using the C43's converter or just go with the CLK55?

[Pagz]

Dennis,
Having not seen the trans out of the 2002 E55 I can only assume its much the same as the other 722.636, If so then it should bolt in no problem, just need to remove the blank and install the park shift locking cable wire?

As for ratio's, not sure.

[kowalski]

Dennis,
Having not seen the trans out of the 2002 E55 I can only assume its much the same as the other 722.636, If so then it should bolt in no problem, just need to remove the blank and install the park shift locking cable wire?

As for ratio's, not sure.

hey bro
what is the blank on transmission?

[Pagz]

Hey,
Back of trans beside output flange is where the interlock cable enters, on tiptronic models this is blanked off as the wire goes direct from EIS to the shifter gate so does not need to go to the trans.

[RemoLexi]

Correct! Dot6's made for tip tronic had the cable interlock blocked off, so it's NOT a direct bolt in for a 99' and older.

The valve bodies are also different, something about a certain valve spring that was updated in size.

Paul, do not install any torque converter until you can match the flex plate bolts!!! I had a run-in where a tq. Converter with drain plug didn't bolt up to a later model flex plate! Sucked having to remove the trans again!!

[RemoLexi]

Speaking of torque converters, the one you would want is a factory 211 E55 one, it carries a W240 maybach p/n ;)

[Pagz]

Remo,
Thanks for the heads up I will check this -I will likely just run the CLK55 one. I have ordered new bolts for the flex plate so will check those too, whilst looking in EPC i noticed the flex plate updates the same time as the crank(assuming this is the 1:11 compression update) From what I can gather this is 203/209/211 time as I cannot find any engine numbers for 202/208/210 even close to what EPC stats have the updated crank. Maybe a very limited market got some with 1:11 compression very late in the piece?.


I'm failry confident you could remove the blank and install the interlock on a tip trans!...What I'm unsure about is if they have removed or changed any other parts that lock the selector arm inside.

what are the differences in the converter and trans on 211 E55?

[Pagz]

A rather large box of M113 5.4 parts turned up yesturday from pelicanparts, amongst them was a crank pully. I'm not sure why, but there are plenty of cheap M113 4.3 pully's about by MB or aftermarket ....but I could only find genuine expensive MB 5.4 ones!...so it cost me a limb, it is completely different casting to the 4.3's one, also much different rubber to the original 5.4, I hope I dont have to replace that in my life time again.

[Pagz]

Remo, Do you ever have trouble with the converter input seal infront of the pump? just whilst I have it off is it worth replacing? I dont really have the right drift to do it so dont really want to if its not nessassary.

[AMG KC]

Pagz, do i hear you correct at three thousand seven hundred and fifty for that CLK55??? If you know of another one come up with a good engine and trans, i will take it straight away. Ive got 7 acres of land up north of Brisbane so ive got plenty o space to put a partly wrecked car ;)

Ive seen a good condition 98-99 E55 as low as $14,000 was in reasonable condition. Around $20,000 is common. Id be happy enough to flog it back off for around 12 grand, im not sure if id swap the rear badges to say 43 or not.

Id be interested to know stall speeds on those various converters.

[RemoLexi]

If you are not planning to open up the type 6, I wouldn't bother messing with the orange input shaft seal / tq. Conv. Seal. I have yet to see one leak! I'm placing a bet you will launch your .6 before that seal decides to leak! (Though not trying to curse you!)

For the shift cable interlock, I think the hole isn't drilled for the pin for the locking arm. I will take a few pics when I get to the shop this weekend. I have a .6 on the bench blow apart.

Stall #'s on the tq. conv. I am not certain of, a wise tech did once tell me the W240 was the way to go. This was years back in my dealership days. I was a green tech didn't bother asking more questions. Aftermarket converters are availible, but I've heard they put on major wear to your .6!

[AMG KC]

Well they could depending on their specs, i had a 9" lockup type 3,200 stall in my 94 Corvette, but i did that during trans rebuild. Stock was 12" lockup and around 1,500 stall, f***en useless on an LT1 with a 112°LSA cam in it.

The smaller diameter gave a far greater torque multiplication factor, somewhere around 2.8 times was their figure, not sure what the stock gave but probably around 1.5ish at a guess.

I would expect he told you that because the W240 is a reasonably large heavy ( and bloody ugly ) car, quite likely having a higher stall speed. Youd want to be sure the diameter is the same or smaller though..

[AMG KC]

What sort of hot rod parts can be had for these trannies?

[RemoLexi]

Somebody makes a K1 drum that holds more clutches, it strengthens the 1-2 shift. I have to look it up who made that but it was mainly to strengthen for high horsepower figures.

I would only assume that low hp #'s like 400 range (5.4L) and a strong built trans would just last much longer!

[AMG KC]

Yes id expect if its a good part it should last a very long life, but its not the horsepower figures thatll kill it as much as it is the torque.

Since the throttle plate shuts briefly during that shift id expect the life to be really quite long, in my 95 C180 im up over 354,000 without a hitch on it's 4 speed, its had 200,000 of shifting first to second under near full load every time.

[RemoLexi]

Apologize, the high tq. Figures would do more damage then HP.

[Pagz]

KC,
You heard right ;)... the one I got was up first and someone bid furiously against me to $4750aud, the second one went for $3750aud, both with lite a-piller damage, they are the first rhd clk55's I've seen damaged in 2 years. Have seen a 99 E55 at one stage not sure what it went for,Keep a look out on pickles,I'll let you know if I find anything else!.

[Pagz]

Thanks Remo, seal stays as it is ;)

[Pagz]

More updates:

Factory cutout for diff recess
1985

Cutout, the pressed in area's required cutting to allow the recess to fit flush, the clk boot doesn't appear to have this. the metal is so soft you could almost beat it with a soft mallet to the desired effect.
1986

Riveted in place
19871988

Complete with cable tray from the clk55(built to suit recess)
1989

[Pagz]

clk55 complete rear end in, fits perfect - the clk55 changes are different bushes but otherwise its a 202 frame.
19941995

Quick coat of fisholine on all for preservation
1993

[AMG KC]

Can you get the correct 3.07:1 gears to fit it?

Mate if you see anything that cheap, either E or CLK or whatever else i can take a direct swap 55 engine from, let me know, ill grab it!!

[AMG KC]

clk55 complete rear end in, fits perfect - the clk55 changes are different bushes but otherwise its a 202 frame.
19901991

Quick coat of fisholine on all for preservation
1992
Cant see those attachments, can you upload them to photobucket instead so they automatically load on the page?

[Pagz]

Sometimes the attachments bug not sure why, I'm attaching as I assume they are loaded locally on club202, hopefully this outlives photo hosting sites and there's less dead pics in future!

I have heard there is a large case diff with 3.06...I cant recall which model it is from though.

[AMG KC]

Itd be ideal if there was a straight swap in LSD for the standard rear end in the C43, its strange the C36 had one and the others dont.

Does the CLK or E 55s have an LSD?

I think itll be a bit of a handful getting off the line with the 55 engine and stock diff with no LSD.

[Pagz]

C36,C43,CLK55,E55 none ever had lsd afaik.

The ESP brakes the spinning wheel for lsd effect, of course not as good as the real thing though still much better than totally open!.

Edit - do some mechanical lsd's cause understeer?

[Mike51809]

When my c230 was made someone opted for the LSD, my data card shows it and the 2 marks left on the pavement prove it

[Pagz]

the 2.3 leaves marks? =P

What year is yours?, some 4 cylinders run the smaller 124 diff iirc. same as some 190's etc, maybe your option was a similar clutchpack style to the 16v 190 back then?.

[AMG KC]

C36,C43,CLK55,E55 none ever had lsd afaik.

The ESP brakes the spinning wheel for lsd effect, of course not as good as the real thing though still much better than totally open!.

Edit - do some mechanical lsd's cause understeer?
The C36 does indeed have an LSD from all ive been told, very long time since i drove one, they were asking $68,990 for it at that time, so i bought another Corvette.

It would have to be a very tight LSD to cause understeer, id be more concerned about power-on oversteer.

My 95 C180 will spin both wheels evenly too... In the wet!!

[RemoLexi]

Both the 97' US spec C36's I've had, no LSD. I believe the ASR was in place to correct traction.

And I have yet to come across anything in the US with LSD.

Only my 211 E55 had it installed after later on as a upgrade.

I always had my eye out for a BMW E30 325is 3.73 LSD because they looked very close in size as well as someone telling me the axle bolt patterns were the same, all I'd have to do is fabricate the diff mount points and convert my driveline to U-joint instead of rubber disc. Just a rumour.

[Pagz]

As far as I know C36 started out with ASR, at some stage this incorporated braking of the spinning wheel to mimic an LSD, later when ESP came along( C43 onwards) it incorporated all that plus yaw control.

EPC doesnt show any lsd diffs for C36, only ASR is mentioned with the diff part numbers which iirc is a sensor slot on the diff housing?.

[AMG KC]

The one i drove never had traction control, i thought they all wouldve by then but this one didnt, no button for it either. It had abit of trouble spinning the wheels for long anyway, it just seemed to want to take off instead. Was quite fast once it was moving.

[AMG KC]

Both the 97' US spec C36's I've had, no LSD. I believe the ASR was in place to correct traction.

And I have yet to come across anything in the US with LSD.

Only my 211 E55 had it installed after later on as a upgrade.

I always had my eye out for a BMW E30 325is 3.73 LSD because they looked very close in size as well as someone telling me the axle bolt patterns were the same, all I'd have to do is fabricate the diff mount points and convert my driveline to U-joint instead of rubber disc. Just a rumour.
3.73:1 will be abit high!!

[RemoLexi]

3.73 would be good for the 5-speed manual,

I ran a 3.69 before along with a 6-speed manual and boy that was fun! But in the hands of the inexperienced, well, that's why that car is now parting out!

[AMG KC]

Yes i was going to say would be fine for a manual, single or double over drive, but the auto would leave you revvin the s*** out of it on the highway!!

I helped swap out my mate's 91 ZR1 to 4.10:1 from the stock 3.54:1, i reckon it was the best money ever spent on the perfomance of that particular car.

[Pagz]

later MB 6-speed manuals in the higher torque application run 2.47 rear,2.82 should be perfect for the C43 then? ;)

[Mike51809]

Mine is a 99 but with the extra boost she is a blast to drive! I need to dyno it, it has 245's on the back

[AMG KC]

I wonder if its an over drive 6 speed in those at all then?

Id be interested to know some gear ratios for their boxes.

Probably way too much effort to get a bloody 7 speed in there!! If that could be done, youd then have full tiptronic control.

[AMG KC]

Id have to assume the likes of the CLK Black Series and CLK DTM have an LSD, i passed up the chance to test drive a Black Series a couple years ago. As far as i know, there are zero CLK DTMs in Australia, and only one in New Zealand.

[Pagz]

here you go 400nm and 510nm variants
20012002

[AMG KC]

later MB 6-speed manuals in the higher torque application run 2.47 rear,2.82 should be perfect for the C43 then? ;)

With a 55 engine maybe, but i wouldnt want it any taller with the 43 engine in there!!

Id have to guess 1st in those 6 speeds would be a lower gear than the autos by quite abit, and possibly even 2nd as well, if they are using such a tall diff id say 6th is a 1:1 ratio, or 6th would be damn near useless.

[Pagz]

as you say only one dtm here I believe, I have seen it twice and for sale recently! nice looking car.

[AMG KC]

here you go 400nm and 510nm variants
20012002

Just saw that after my edit, so 6th is a .8ish in both. Huge gap between first and second!!

[AMG KC]

as you say only one dtm here I believe, I have seen it twice and for sale recently! nice looking car.

Bet you wish you had half a mil to grab that eh??? ;)

Ive heard two numbers in regards to CLK Blacks here, 30 or 35, which is about half the number of C43s ( including 98 thru 00 )

[Pagz]

If I had that much disposible than yus please! ;)

I havent done too much homework on those ratio's, I figure if it comes from an engine with similar torque curve then I cant go too far wrong...or can I??... that and the fact there is only one to choose from^^

[AMG KC]

Itll do the job, ill just wait til someone goes nuts and figures out how to get a 7 speed auto in there ;)

[Pagz]

I think space could be the main hurdle, the newer 6-speed manual/7 speed auto looks bigger!?.

Just in case you guys ever replace your timing chain idler pully,its a left hand thread with an oil gallery up one side..dont ever forget that!.lol=(

[RemoLexi]

Yea I knew that ... Terribly sorry I feel as if you didn't !

[RemoLexi]

Hell with that though, Paul you should join the Volkswagen community!

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/CDF6B547-0EC9-4935-BFC1-74680C246C81-597-0000001AC557A904_zps348bf32e.jpg

[Pagz]

Yea I knew that ... Terribly sorry I feel as if you didn't !

Kind of felt like it had a nut on the back, you know that sensation when it turns but doesn't get any looser?...well I soon lost that sensation and another one which lasted much longer came along shortly after2016

Nice whip man!, I do wonder sometimes why I bother with mb

[RemoLexi]

Yea there's no thread left in the block huh! That's reverse thread too, so I have no idea what you can do ...

Join the dark side! ;)

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m478/remolexi/65729D1E-26B0-40D8-B1AA-C6ADFCAA46CD-597-0000004CBEC11CE4_zpsf336eefc.jpg

[Pagz]

Looking nice and flat there;)

Yeh there's an easy fix, a new block xD

I'm devising a way to mount it up to my mill and take it out to LHT 18x1.5, then make a C shape insert with LHT 10x1.5 to mimic the 4mm oil gallery. the only complication is removing the hex(22mm) bung in the V of the block to make sure no swalf is left over...it looks like it can be removed anticlockwise but I'm not so sure??. Also the carrier bearing was surprisingly worn on the load side, you could flip it 180 degree's but I think i'll just replace.

[RemoLexi]

But LH thread would mean the rotation of the chain would constantly remind it to come loose..

[Pagz]

Idler sprocket rotates anticlockwise?(its on the outside of the chain so opposite to crank direction)

I removed the large oil gallery bung on the V of the block, had to beat on it a bit to get it free but it is threaded and comes out smooth once you break the seal. this gives full access to the area behind the idler pully and there looks to be no way swarf can get anywhere else(some relief haha)

[RemoLexi]

Pic of the idler gear please,

Yea if it sits at the middle of the V it would turn counter clockwise, so a LH normal thread would natrually come loose. No?

[Pagz]

Yip sure, will snap some tonight

Left hand thread should mean it will tighten if spun anticlockwise, which should be a good thing for the anticlockwise pully!.

Turns out that left hand bolt has an fairly accurate torque spec in wis of "58Nm(+/-m 4.6Nm)", it is 3/4's of an alloy thread with an oil gallery up one side haha. A banjo would have been a better option but costs more i guess.

[RemoLexi]

It would turn the same direction as you would turn to loosen the bolt, hence it would come loose.

Otherwise I don't think MB would have spent the time to put a reverse thread there .. Or I'm I missing something altogether.

[Pagz]

your missing;),being left hand thread(reverse thread) the bolt turns anitclockwise to tighten, so the anticlockwise pully direction is trying to tighten it!

[RemoLexi]

Yep. I'm done.

[Pagz]

lol

That's ok I've started to implement,I'll try not to drill right through^^
202320262025

[Dearlove]

well first off, f*** you, i was doing so well, selling all my unnecessary car parts, thinking of selling my c36..... now, well now after reading all this i want to either sell my c36 and buy a c43 or turbo my c36.... thanks, thanks a lot :p

But good job

[KrumB]

:) Dearlove, have a look at the below links in case you haven't seen them. You may find some useful info :) :
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/251302-190e-3-0-12v-turbo.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/174080-300e-12v-turbo-project.html

P.S.
Sorry for the offtopic!

[RemoLexi]

It seems soo many people are slapping together turbo kits from random dismantler yards! Awesome!

[Pagz]

well first off, f*** you, i was doing so well, selling all my unnecessary car parts, thinking of selling my c36..... now, well now after reading all this i want to either sell my c36 and buy a c43 or turbo my c36.... thanks, thanks a lot :p

But good job

Sorry to create such dilemma's =P

Go with C43/55 ;)

[Sulaco]

So what rwhp are we talking after this 55 swap?

[Dearlove]

Yeah I'm a user of peach parts too.

Would love to do the c43/55 thing. But they still cost heaps and my c36 is worth bugger all

[Pagz]

It's only another ~50hp/110Nm more,Maybe try test drive a clk55 and see if you like the increase over the C43's performance as they are similar wieght;)

leave your C36 engine just as it is!, if your keen on turbo etc go C280/320. I suggest save your pennies and find a nice C43 =)

[AMG KC]

I personally like the C43 over the W203 AMG variants due to the noticably better build quality, and its still got that awesome single wiper...

Not sure how they compare handling wise, my C43 is great but only marginally better than my slightly lowered 95 C180. Although even with 354,700 on the clock compared to the 43's 113,000 its still way better on fuel... Which has alot to do with the hard acceleration i tend to do whenever i can...

If a cheap 55 car comes up here with a good engine ill be grabbing that for a swap. I reckon the W202 is one of the best rounded medium cars on the road today...

Pagz, id still be interested to see a "seat of the pants" comparison between the rear end ratios of the 43 car and the 2.82:1 youre putting in from the 55 car, i know on a C4 LT1 Corvette that makes a significant difference ( albeit the closest there is 2.73:1 used in some convertible autos and the 3.07:1 optional performance ratio, base auto coupes got a pathetic 2.59:1... You could pull 95 in first gear, but it felt slowwww... ) I reckon that 2.82:1 with a 43 engine would really kill the fun.

[Pagz]

I prefer the 202 build quality over the 203 also, cant say it handles any better personally but people report the 203 is better in the corners. My father has a 06 C270dci, nice but I cant stand the bulge shape in the dash ;)

The stats on the CLK55 208 /C55 202 are ~5-5.2(have even heard of 4.9 under ideal conditions), so the 2.82 doesnt really kill peformance as such, I do somtimes wonder if the 5.4 with the C43 diff would cause the traction light to be on near perminantly though? =).

I dont think you would ever want to run the 2.82 with the C43 engine, it lacks the extra torque down low!?

[AMG KC]

Its very simular to the LT1 in that respect yes, not alot of grunt straight up, it really feels like it could use a higher stall converter.

I dont think so much the zero to 100 time will improve but more so the 1/4 mile time and speed with the stock 43 ratio and 55 engine.

[Pagz]

Some small updates, things have been a bit slow having to repair my left hand thread fail, and also waiting for parts!

Cleared out the carbon from the heads and EGR,replacing the hardened original MB stem seals with CFW oem ones, lapped in the valves with fine grit as there was minor pitting and added the coolant nipple for the C43's external trans cooler,that plug is very tight to remove as you cannot spin it!. Also replaced two of the lower spring retainers as they had burrs from sharp spring edges.
20402041

Thread repair effort,I won't make that mistake again in a hurry :)
20422043

Chain in with new guides and sprockets, I popped down to the local MB dealership to have it pinched and also to pick a litre of FE 75 85 to add to my exisiting spare litre for the diff, took them forever but eventually I left with free pinch and diff oil... when does that ever happen haha.
2047


Everything is really to go back together now just need the time, glad I have the mb corking gun it provides some much needed control especially when doing the front timing cover.

[Pagz]

observation between two cylinders, you can see where the HG has lifted or not made contact, the liner has pulled away from the casting here also but very hard to see in photo without enlargening it!.
2045

[AMG KC]

Ill have a look at this in the next couple days ;)

[Pagz]

You've found yourself a donor?

Im getting there slowly, takes alot of time to put these back together clean and proper!, seeing as this is my first one I can say it took far longer than expected. still need to do the rear cover, sump and oil pump!
205120522053

[SD202]

love all the work youre doing here pagz! cannot wait to see this finished.

[AMG KC]

No mate i just havent had time to get to look at your pics!! Im always keeping an eye out, and if one came up at the price you paid id be buying that straight away.

[AMG KC]

Have you got that rig mobile yet Pagz or what? ;)

[Pagz]

Thanks SD202!.

KC,
As of 5pm yesterday ..YES!! =D(huge relief), Very very happy with the outcome,Was a bit shocked how much smoother the clk's 722.636 was compared to my original 631,the auxiliaries on the CLK were also much smoother compared with the C43's with 60K less millage so I used all the clk aux... I suspect the C43 has 94kkms of city driving!.
The 5.4 really should have been standard fit for the C43,theres no comparison between the engines performance wise and the 5.4 sounds MUCH nicer too.

One of the odd parts I replaced was the tunnel insulation which came from Germany(one of the two left in the world according to mb the date on it was 8/99 - who replaces this anyways lol), the tiptronic CLK one is identical to the tip C43 but I guess the Ausi heat had caused it to go brittle and start to delaminate, I took my original and cut it to suit the new shifter but it didnt fit right as the new tunnel sits higher up. having fitted the new one I'm really glad I did as it really fits snug.
2103

The clk's Radio(looks same but diff part number) and CAN from the cluster were fitted to allow the multi-function steering wheel to integrate with radio,the pins just slot into existing plugs,also things like the steering angle sensor,the indicator lever(identical except has larger holder for 5 pin plug)need to swapped out too for the clk ones,I love how the Germans make there looms and everything is color coded for which hole it exists on. most of it bar the stoplamp switch was plug and play,I could have used the esp loom to avoid it all together but way to much work. note the cable trays are updated for the tunnel and to hold the interlock wire from the EIS(this is done EIS to brake pedal to rear of trans on the non tip models where as just between EIS and shifter now) .I have a black insert for the shifter on order and also the updated pocket/tray which does away with the foldable ash tray so will be more usable,this area is more shallow on the tip models due to the higher tunnel so would need to purchase the shallow coin/spectical holder if i keep the original ash tray.
21042105

[Pagz]

Engine ready to go in,some parts replaced were all seals/gaskets,all one use stretch bolts,water pump,crank pully,both tensioners,oil check valve,all timing sprockets guides,chain and belt(initial checks show 3-4 degrees more advance now but I expect it to be slightly more with oil in the chain),all fluids including diff and trans pilot bush,filter and magnet(pre 2001 had no magnet).
210621072108

...and it fits!
21092110

[Pagz]

All in! ;)
2111

2140

[kowalski]

Thanks SD202!.

KC,
As of 5pm yesterday ..YES!! =D(huge relief), Very very happy with the outcome,Was a bit shocked how much smoother the clk's 722.636 was compared to my original 631,the auxiliaries on the CLK were also much smoother compared with the C43's with 60K less millage so I used all the clk aux... I suspect the C43 has 94kkms of city driving!.
The 5.4 really should have been standard fit for the C43,theres no comparison between the engines performance wise and the 5.4 sounds MUCH nicer too.

One of the odd parts I replaced was the tunnel insulation which came from Germany(one of the two left in the world according to mb the date on it was 8/99 - who replaces this anyways lol), the tiptronic CLK one is identical to the tip C43 but I guess the Ausi heat had caused it to go brittle and start to delaminate, so I took my original and cut it to suit the new shifter but it never really fitted well as the new tunnel sits higher up. having fitted the new one I'm really glad I did as it fits perfect.
2103

The clk's Radio(looks same but diff part number) and CAN from the cluster were fitted to allow the multi-function steering wheel to integrate with radio too,the pins just slot into existing plugs,also things like the steering angle sensor,the indicator lever(identical except has larger holder for 5 pin plug)need to swapped out too for the clk ones,I love how the Germans make there looms and everything is color coded for which hole it exists on. most of it bar the stoplamp switch was plug and play,I could have used the esp loom to avoid it all together but way to much work. note the cable trays are updated for the tunnel and to hold the interlock wire from the EIS(this is done EIS to brake pedal to rear of trans on the non tip models where as just between EIS and shifter now) . have a black insert for the shifter on order and also the updated pocket/tray which does away with the foldable ash tray and will be more usable,this area is more shallow on the tip models so would need to purchase the shallow coin/spectical holder if i keep the original ash tray.
21042105


nice work Pagz, congrats!
how was the testdrive?
did you get any punchy speedgazm from the new engine?

the auxiliaries you used from from the CLK which you say was much smoother, what did you use instead of using the similar parts from c43?

when the TIP shifter gate is done, show us some nice pictures along with the new illuminated speedo and steering wheel

the final recipe was the CLK55 engine, CLK55 transmission, did you use the complete rear axle from CLK55?
transmission, you only swapped the 4 bolt end flange from CLK55 to 3 bolt end flange from C43 to fit your rear axle?

thanks

[Pagz]

Hello Dennis ,Thanks! - The test drive was really good plenty of speedgazm!!=D

The clk's alternator and a/c pump bearings were much much smoother, also the power steering pump had less play so I used all three!(all have same part numbers as C43)

The final recipe was all CLK55 parts - The engine,trans,prop shaft,entire rear axle drive/subframe,centre muffler and rear muffler everything just bolts in but of course you need diff recess for clearance!.
There are many many other clk parts i used, I will write a list at some stage!.

I will snap some interior shots once the parts arrive and I have repaired the cluster ribbon!

Cheers!

[kowalski]

Hello Dennis ,Thanks! - The test drive was really good plenty of speedgazm!!=D

The clk's alternator and a/c pump bearings were much much smoother, also the power steering pump had less play so I used all three!(all have same part numbers as C43)

The final recipe was all CLK55 parts - The engine,trans,prop shaft,entire rear axle drive/subframe,centre muffler and rear muffler everything just bolts in but of course you need diff recess for clearance!.
There are many many other clk parts i used, I will write a list at some stage!.

I will snap some interior shots once the parts arrive and I have repaired the cluster ribbon!

Cheers!

allright brotha sounds great, thanks

when you take your car out for long drive check the gas consumption and mileage how much gas she sucks compared to c43 engine?
now that you have a bigger engine, on normal driving, consumption must be similar or less/higher to c43 engine?

[SD202]

yes! glad it all went smoothly! get some of those sound clips as soon as you have a nice clear day to go out and really give her a good test. I bet youre overcome with joy everytime you press the pedal down down! haha

[RemoLexi]

Nice!!! So now when you hook up to SDS you have to select a CLK55?

[Pagz]

Dennis,Sure np I will get some gas consumption figures when I bring her home, I have seen figures around 9.8l/100km open road for the clk55, I got 9.7/100 with the 4.3 but I will confirm!

SD202, I must say I had a rather large smile the first time I stabbed the pedal - i recommend all c43 owners install 5.4's;)! , even after driving clk55 prior there's something really refreshing about having that extra power in the 202. I will need to get a decent mic for my camera some time then I can get some nice audio for you=)

Remo, Cheers - I used the clk VIN when using SDS but might also work with C43 vin?, everything except CAN to DCM 3/4 works so no rear window actuation, apart from the obvious clk has 2 doors I'll check to see if I have disconnected the CAN somewhere with all the wiring changes or if its coding/program issue need to check which modules the DCM's comm with.

[AMG KC]

Im getting around 10.5-11ltrs/100klms from my C43, on the highway doing a 450klm trip i did get 9.4ltrs/100 with a few WOT overtakes and AC on all the way. ( EDIT: That was with the old MAF, which i reckon was running it a touch lean )

New spark plugs will be going in tomorrow too.

I must say its way more grunty since i put in that new MAF though, putting a couple new Michelin Pilot 255/40 on the rear tomorrow cause the current ones have had the dick now. I doubt itd be drivable with a 55 engine at the moment!! When i go ahead though ill be keeping with the same rear end ratio as the 43 comes with rather than the taller 55 rear end, id expect WOT in first should get you to about 70-75kph now? Mine shifts to 2nd about 60kph, which isnt bad cause going WOT at a steady 80kph cruise puts it right in the sweet spot of 2nd gear.

Last week or so its developed another seemingly very minor issue, fuel gauge sometimes reads almost empty just after the engine starts, the low fuel light sometimes comes and goes. Not sure if the sender is rooted or if its a loose connection somewhere, cause stopping the engine and restarting will fix it every time.

[kowalski]

w202 had troubles with fuel gage sender, your might be faulty, i think there were 2 senders in fueltank

[RemoLexi]

Any and every European car has fuel gauge issues.

Paul, as far as coding the rear windows, it can be done but developer is required if I'm not mistaken. Certain modules get locked and you can't change coding in them without developer, if I'm not mistaken EIS would be where coding needs to be changed I remember being told it wouldn't provide power to any rear door module (since clks don't have rear doors) and the EIS is your first power up point.

Or.... Convert rear windows to manual roll haha problem solved!!

[AMG KC]

w202 had troubles with fuel gage sender, your might be faulty, i think there were 2 senders in fueltank

Yeah mate i did a search after that post, seems reasonably common!! Thanks ;)

[Pagz]

KC,your consumption sounds about right!, I think around town is much higher though? xD

I saved the Clk's fuel senders for this reason,let us know how you get on with the repair!.

Remo,Thanks for the info I will start with the EIS coding! ..I will have to swat up on my german seeing as that's the only language developer's in(talk about mine field^^)
Mate suggested the same thing "oh well you'll just have to install manual winder's" haha ...NOOoo!!

[RemoLexi]

To be honest, before I sold my blue 36 that was next up on the list. It's was $40 for all 4 manual windows plus shipping from the Brits.

In your case you still have the fronts auto, who cares about the rear? You use that thing as a taxi or something? ;]

[AMG KC]

Just hard wire the rear switches to the relays for the rear regulators, youll lose auto but you aint got that now, so who cares ;)

I probably wont bother with the senders for a while, ill track down and gather the parts though.

Next stop i reckon might be poly bushings in the front, im getting some clunks over low speed bumps. Does anyone do a poly bushing kit for the C43?

[DRBC43AMG]

Next stop i reckon might be poly bushings in the front, im getting some clunks over low speed bumps. Does anyone do a poly bushing kit for the C43?

You can get a full set of poly bushing from K-MAC http://www.k-mac.com.au/
but expect a rougher ride and perhaps some squeaks when driving. The kit offers adjustment of camber on both front and rear suspension. Not cheap stuff but probably worth it. I have a full set but I never have gotten round to installing the stuff...

[kowalski]

Yeah mate i did a search after that post, seems reasonably common!! Thanks ;)

i think this shop has the best prices in UK?
http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/fuel-tank-sending-unit

[DRBC43AMG]

Pagz, I've just read the thread from page 1.
I am impressed with the work you have done and the result achieved. It's nice to see people trying out things which really work. I'll be doing the 55 conversion some day in the future, perhaps with a overhauled gearbox with stronger internals and a Quaife LSD. That should get things moving, and some bigger brakes to stop better. As I live in a country where one finds plenty of mountain roads, I manage to cook my brakes when going down mountain passes.
By the way, is there a reason for not going the secondary cats and central muffler delete as most owners of 43's do?

[AMG KC]

You can get a full set of poly bushing from K-MAC http://www.k-mac.com.au/
but expect a rougher ride and perhaps some squeaks when driving. The kit offers adjustment of camber on both front and rear suspension. Not cheap stuff but probably worth it. I have a full set but I never have gotten round to installing the stuff...

Awesome ;) Thanks for that!! Im not overly concerned about the cost if it is a top quality product.

The ride is quite soft as it is compared to the way my 94 Corvette was with the Corvette Challenge race car front spring and 84 rear spring, it was VERY stiff. Sat very low and very flat around the turns. Id rather have the better handling though, its got a long way to go before its even close to a stiff ride!!

[AMG KC]

i think this shop has the best prices in UK?
http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/fuel-tank-sending-unit
No idea mate, im in Australia, but ill compare that with German Auto Spares when the time comes :)

[Pagz]

Remo, Were you looking to save wieght? Lets talk more about this after some failed SDS wizardry! having owned two doors I like my taxi four doors just fine thankyou haha=P.

KC, I once had some custom nolathanes made for the front,later when I finally went back to the oem bushes I was shocked at how much smoother the ride was, I'd never go back to solid but if you like the extra responce the solid bushes will help.

DRB, thanks!.. I'm really happy with how it turned out so far,it has been a bit tough as my garage was to small to house this project so for space I have been driving 2.5hrs south each time I needed to work on it, I had to plan weekends well ahead and any mistake ment waiting till next visit,I dont think I will do another project this way;).
are there options to install higher temp pads in your MB calipers?. I really like the smooth refined sound of the factory exhaust,I have had many custom exhausts on all sorts of cars and my usual outcome is alot more cabin noise ..It seems also the older I get the more I just want smooth,powerfull and where nobody notices I'm flooring it^^however..Seeing as I now have a spare set of down pipes and cats from the clk55 I am very temped to modify and swap them out knowing I can always just bolt the cats back;).

[AMG KC]

Yeah i know the difference because ive done these swaps on other vehicles before, but i didnt really buy this car for soft smooth ride!!

[AMG KC]

What is the recomended torque spec for the wheel studs?

[DRBC43AMG]

I torque all mine at 110 n/meters

[Pagz]

Yep DRB's right WIS specs 110Nm!

[AMG KC]

Thanks blokes ;) ill have a check of mine later, i rarely trust the tyre fitters to get it right.

[AMG KC]

I have a new quest ;) The E60.... Will that 6 litre fit straight in my C43?

Can only imagine it would create a serious monster ;)

[nd4spd13]

Wow, what a thread. Pagz unreal work. The dedication to go through with all this is astounding, but thank's for actually going through with it all!
I started gathering parts a couple years ago to do an EGS-52 swap on my c43, but stopped when I learned of the trans tunnel modification. I've still got a facelift 210 cluster and black and white 210 steering wheel with controls plus I think 2 extra TCUs sitting around as reminders. Watching it all fleshed out in your pics it seems a lot simpler and also infinitely more daunting. Is the part you cut out of the trans tunnel marked at all? Or is that just where you decided to cut? Is all the raised front portion necessary to transfer, or could one just swap the part directly under the Tip shifter?

Next up should be command and paddle shifters. Paddles are where I originally got the inspiration to do mine.

Again fantastic work. Looks prime! :cool:

[AMG KC]

Even if you go paddles itll still be a full auto shift, with basically no control over upshift, and very poor control over downshift. When you push down gear on the shifter, it will drop you to the gear below the one youre in, which is pretty useless for the most.

Say youre in D, trans is in third, you want to preven it shifting to forth, you hit downshift, you shift to second. If only they made that one downshift press in that situation lock out forth and fifth instead of throwing you directly into the next gear below, it wouldve been much better and more useful.

The gated shifter allows you to select any gear any time with ease on the downshift, upshift is still full auto.

[Sulaco]

This thread is porn for me. Ooommmmgggggg please make some videos. There's a shocking lack of YouTube videos of w202 55 conversions. I want video of you smoking hoodlums by the end of the week!!

[nd4spd13]

Now that he's running EGS-52 he has a multitude of TCU tuning options that allow gear holding, downshift throttle-blipping, and faster shifts.

[Pagz]

Wow, what a thread. Pagz unreal work. The dedication to go through with all this is astounding, but thank's for actually going through with it all!
I started gathering parts a couple years ago to do an EGS-52 swap on my c43, but stopped when I learned of the trans tunnel modification. I've still got a facelift 210 cluster and black and white 210 steering wheel with controls plus I think 2 extra TCUs sitting around as reminders. Watching it all fleshed out in your pics it seems a lot simpler and also infinitely more daunting. Is the part you cut out of the trans tunnel marked at all? Or is that just where you decided to cut? Is all the raised front portion necessary to transfer, or could one just swap the part directly under the Tip shifter?

Next up should be command and paddle shifters. Paddles are where I originally got the inspiration to do mine.

Now that he's running EGS-52 he has a multitude of TCU tuning options that allow gear holding, downshift throttle-blipping, and faster shifts.

Again fantastic work. Looks prime! :cool:

Thanks man,Unfortunately I have EGS51 :(, upto 06/00 CLK55 is EGS51, this is an easier installation into C43 than EGS52 I noticed nearly all body modules update with EGS52 along with alot of wiring harnesses,mainly things like common interior light connection points become plugs instead of solder, but also updates to plugs like the engine harness/TB etc. also updates to ESP and sensors. looking back now maybe extra hard work and EGS52 would have been better but I cannot confirm if body modules would have played along.

The tunnel mod is fairly straight forward,you'll need the whole add on,cable trays and insulation to complete the oe finish.

A good quality air die grinder with carbide burr makes lite work of the spot welds, just take it slow to not remove any of the metal you want to retain and make sure your wearing plenty of protection and the car is well masked off with drop sheets,think millions of needles =D.

The hole I cut was traced off the factory hole that was cut from the CLK, when you remove the CLK/C tip add-on use a cut of wheel to remove about 50mm more than you need from the tunnel, then when you grind out the welds to seperate the add on you will be left with a template for the cutout on the C43.

The radio looks same on the CLK55,but it has different part number and has a CAN from cluster to radio to allow the multifunction. you could try install CAN from unpdated cluster to your C43 radio but I have not tried this so cannot garrentee.

I had a good look through a C63 last weekend,so much more of a cockpit and makes me want paddle shifters also, however unless you reprogram your TCU I think might be a bit slow with standard touchshift speeds ;)

[nd4spd13]

Thanks man,Unfortunately I have EGS51 :(, upto 06/00 CLK55 is EGS51, this is an easier installation into C43 than EGS52 I noticed nearly all body modules update with EGS52 along with alot of wiring harnesses,mainly things like common interior light connection points become plugs instead of solder, but also updates to plugs like the engine harness/TB etc. also updates to ESP and sensors. looking back now maybe extra hard work and EGS52 would have been better but I cannot confirm if body modules would have played along.

The tunnel mod is fairly straight forward,you'll need the whole add on,cable trays and insulation to complete the oe finish.

A good quality air die grinder with carbide burr makes lite work of the spot welds, just take it slow to not remove any of the metal you want to retain and make sure your wearing plenty of protection and the car is well masked off with drop sheets,think millions of needles =D.

The hole I cut was traced off the factory hole that was cut from the CLK, when you remove the CLK/C tip add-on use a cut of wheel to remove about 50mm more than you need from the tunnel, then when you grind out the welds to seperate the add on you will be left with a template for the cutout on the C43.

The radio looks same on the CLK55,but it has different part number and has a CAN from cluster to radio to allow the multifunction. you could try install CAN from unpdated cluster to your C43 radio but I have not tried this so cannot garrentee.

I had a good look through a C63 last weekend,so much more of a cockpit and makes me want paddle shifters also, however unless you reprogram your TCU I think might be a bit slow with standard touchshift speeds ;)

Really? I always that that tip = egs52? By what your saying, egs52 didn't directly correlate to Tiptronic nor Speedshift, they were all separate updates? That all seems odd... You have confirmed that the CLK TCU you installed said egs51 on it, yes? Is there any indication in the TCU numbers whether it is Tip enabled or not?

Thanks for the help. I spent a few too many hours looking up scrap CLK55s around my area ;) It's remarkable you can find a few here for barely more than it would cost to source a 55 engine alone.

[Pagz]

Even if you go paddles itll still be a full auto shift, with basically no control over upshift, and very poor control over downshift. When you push down gear on the shifter, it will drop you to the gear below the one youre in, which is pretty useless for the most.

Say youre in D, trans is in third, you want to preven it shifting to forth, you hit downshift, you shift to second. If only they made that one downshift press in that situation lock out forth and fifth instead of throwing you directly into the next gear below, it wouldve been much better and more useful.

The gated shifter allows you to select any gear any time with ease on the downshift, upshift is still full auto.

As you say its not perfect for all situtations but I really like the touch shift/w gear selection on the dash,especially tapping down a gear. I have driven the touchshift before for short durations and didnt think much of it initially however having used the gate for a year or so now then changing I think tip is far better for all round driving. I'm not sure about others but I always find myself looking at the gate to check which gear I'm in or if it's back in D!.


This thread is porn for me. Ooommmmgggggg please make some videos. There's a shocking lack of YouTube videos of w202 55 conversions. I want video of you smoking hoodlums by the end of the week!!
It's on my list ;), I would like to get a dyno run overlayed with my old turbo setup, also a run down the 1/4 etc. atm I'm refreshing usual suspension suspects!

[Pagz]

I have a new quest ;) The E60.... Will that 6 litre fit straight in my C43?

Can only imagine it would create a serious monster ;)

You would have a hard time fitting that old brick in ;), think quad cams!