Quaife LSD has been ordered and installed!

[Denlasoul]

Differential has a leak, so found an opportunity to do an upgrade instead of a fix. ��

Been on my radar since the Club202 LSD Group Buy Thread from awhile back. Talked to Birds Auto UK, and had my local shop order the LSD. Will be here in a few weeks and will schedule the install then.

I will post pics and more details when available.

Stay tuned…

[kowalski]

wouldn't it be cheaper to replace gasket on diff than buying a qauife lsd?

[Denlasoul]

Of course. I would rather have the lsd diff, was planning to upgrade anyway so might as well do it now.

[jnolte]

Of course. I would rather have the diff, was planning to upgrade anyway so might as well do it now.

they make them for other model benz also?

[kowalski]

Of course. I would rather have the diff, was planning to upgrade anyway so might as well do it now.

i'd like to have one too but it's very expensive i guess?
how much are you paying for a quaife?
are you buying from UK or domestic?

[Denlasoul]

they make them for other model benz also?

Not sure, but can check for you.

[Denlasoul]

i'd like to have one too but it's very expensive i guess?
how much are you paying for a quaife?
are you buying from UK or domestic?

About 1600usd for LSD, 230 for install kit, then install itself. Buying from UK through a domestic dealer.

Also having diff cover powdercoated.

edit: no powdercoating is being done. decided against it.

[RemoLexi]

I thought they never made one for the small diff casing that C43's use?

[Denlasoul]

I thought they never made one for the small diff casing that C43's use?
I talked to Kevin Bird and his suppliers in the US. My understanding is that my housing is a 210 and Kevin builds the LSD specifically for the C43 on behalf of Quaife. I have the p/n which he has used on other C43s, if you wanted it for comparative purposes.

I'll keep you posted when it arrives. This is the information relayed to me directly from Birds.

[anf6789]

Jnolte they indeed do. Here is my friends shop Powerhaus Performance's twin turbo cls55 with a lsd for reference.
http://youtu.be/L2sRdKEydrQ

[Denlasoul]

Finally arrived. Going into shop after the holidays. Will get pics and opinion up soon…

[jnolte]

NICE

[Denlasoul]

Car is in shop. Forgot to take a picture of the LSD, but asked the shop to take one in not too late. Hopefully, they can pull through so I can document things on the site.

Also, here is information from Kevin Bird @ Birds UK: "The drive ratio does not change. The Quaife device merely changes the standard bevel differential case for a Quaife unit. You will retain the final drive housing, crownwheel and pinion and original bearings." Apparently, Kevin Bird has the market on the C43 LSD and possibly for other MB models. My shop had to buy direct from him, even Quaife USA could not get this kit.

More to come.....

[kowalski]

ask your shop if they had to modify diff casing?
any drilling or other type of modification necessary?

[Denlasoul]

Differential was taken apart.....

edit: bearings were shot, had to replace them.

[RemoLexi]

I can't seem to open attachments on mobile version, but I'm curious to know if the quaife is a clutch type LSD or helical, wave ect.

[Denlasoul]

http://www.birdsauto.com/content/what-quaife-atb-limited-slip-differential

It says ATB which is Automatic Torque Biasing LSD, and I get the impression that it is helical. I am not to familiar on how it engages, but sounds like it does when torque is sensed as uneven.

[RemoLexi]

Yep. Helical, for daily driving & drag racing from stop light to stop light it's just what you want!

[RemoLexi]

If I remember reading correctly, the helical doesn't do anything on deceleration, but in road racing allowed faster turn-in because rear wheels never both lock up.

Vs. clutch type where some models allow up to 100% lock up on deceleration (2-way, 1.5way ect?) which is great on say a 911 Porsche with all the weight in the back where you need maximum stability, but turn-in could be compromised because if both rear wheels are locked at one speed it begins to scrub and slow you down. Clutch types also eventually need rebuilding.

Then engagement becomes an issue, I think both clutch type and helical, one can feel engagement which if not smooth isn't always good. Curios to see how the quaife feels in a C43! I'm sure it will be just what the car should have had from the factory!

[kowalski]

how much better will c43 be with this lsd installed?

the lsd is it 100% maintanence free besides doing regular oil changes in the diff?

[Vetruck]

The Quaife Diff is a just one version of a helix worm shaft/helix worm gear design. A few of the older more popular versions are the old Zexel Torson II, and the Eaton TrueTrac.

how they work is the axles fit into worm gears when slipped inside the carrier. Around those left and right side worm gears are a planetary housing supporting 3 worm shafts over each worm gears. Left and right setups are reciprocal opposites . The worm gears are long enough that each of the 3 lefts overlap each of the 3 rights inside the planetary housing. When power is applied, traction from the wheels makes for grip to be balance so the worm gears and worm shafts do not spin. The entire planetary housing simply rotates somewhat as one with the axles. When the traction level drops off lets say the right side and the wheel slips, the worm drive setup rotates the side moving faster and counter acts the power to transfer over to the other worm drive to provide more power to the wheel with grip. Consequently the side slipping starts to in essence reverse direction and slows the amount or percentage of power to that wheel until grip returns.

You will not feel it engage nor disengage like a Detroit Locker for example. A cone clutch type can be upped or downed in amount of lockup by use of spring pressures. The greater the spring the more it locks or is close to lock. The harder it need to be pressed has in corner grip in order to 'unlock it' so to speak.

Any car would pretty much benefit from a worm type helix carrier.

Coming from a Roadrace background, the reason why NASCAR became such an interest to me is the simple rule we have to use a spool (solid locked up) rear axle carrier. This is virtually unbreakable. The fact the circle track races only go left make the use of staggered wheels left to right a useful tool in getting the car to turn under power. Its a combination of xweights and stagger that get the car in motion. We could not use a spool in a road race car without massive inside wheel slip and excellerated tire wear.

[Vetruck]

Now back to the helix worm setup- The reason why the Quaife (or others like it) work so well in a corner is because the weight of the car transfer onto the outside drive wheel. This is the dominate wheel because of weight pressure, thus under the 50/50 distribution, the inside wheel starts to become the one that skips, as pressure is released and the wheel starts to loose traction the worm gears simultaneously (as described in the above post) stat to somewhat slow or reverse rotation of the side moving faster (which is the inside wheel- this progressiviely increases as the car turns tighter) and the outside wheel is given more percentage of power and movement in path compared to the inside wheel.

[kowalski]

when the lsd is installed how does it cope with ESP on c43?
the esp is an anti sliding safety device on c43
do both engage when car loses traction?

[Denlasoul]

Per Kevin Bird:

"The Quaife will not affect the ESP system on your car. Given that the traction will improve dramtically, then you will see less instances of ESP activation. However, when you lose grip with both tyres, ESP will intervene as normal."

[RemoLexi]

All ESP looks for is which of the 4 wheels spins faster, meaning slipping and shuts down power, so if the LSD eliminates unnecessary wheel spin, ESP doesn't see any of the 4 wheels misbahaving. There are 4 wheel speed sensors, one on each wheel.

[kowalski]

which LSD is the better one of the two brands?
quaife or wavetrack?

which one gives the best performance of the two?

[Denlasoul]

Going to pick up car.....

[Denlasoul]

Got car..... W O W.

Light rain outside right now. Took a left at 40mph and gunned it. Heard a little skid and I took off around the bend. No ESP light flashing! Took another left and did the same thing, slight flashing of the ESP maybe half a second. Took off again. Lastly, I did a dead stop to 60mph. No slipping or flashing at all. Took off like it was dry out. The LSD definitely makes a difference.

To answer some questions: they had to grind down a bit of the housing to fit the LSD properly. There was alot of space, so structure is not comprimsed.

No real maintenance, just do diff fluid change every so often. Lifetime warranty.

One hiccup was that my bearings needed to be replaced and labor took longer than expected. So my budget was off by a bit. No biggie, I would rather have it done correctly than have it hacked into place.

Big thanks to Rich (logistics) and Jesse (install) at Eurosport Park Ave (http://www.rentonautorepair.us/), in Renton WA. Did a great job.

Also thanks to Kevin at Birds Auto (http://www.birdsauto.com/) in the UK. He is the sole provider of this LSD and has been more than helpful in answering my questions.

More pictures to come. EPA was able to take them along the way for me.

See you in the left lane.

[RemoLexi]

Now all you need is a 5.4!

[Denlasoul]

Now all you need is a 5.4!
Yup. Need more power now. Maybe forced induction…

[predrag1]

How much were you able to get the dif for?

[RemoLexi]

Den- did you ever hear about the guy on myMBonline years back that turbo'd his C43? Max Hughes did the work I remember. But then everything on myMBonline died away.

[Denlasoul]

How much were you able to get the dif for?
2000 w/o install.

[Denlasoul]

Den- did you ever hear about the guy on myMBonline years back that turbo'd his C43? Max Hughes did the work I remember. But then everything on myMBonline died away.
Vaguely remember. I'm sure I could find out information though.

I have seriously considered turbo. There is a turbo shop down the street from my home. Maybe I will swing in one day.

[RemoLexi]

It was a rear mount, replaced the muffler box. He used an electric oil pump to run oil supply, and being that the turbo is soo far back, he didn't need an intercooler at all. I think it spooled well too (being soo far back and all)

[predrag1]

Or even better....have you heard of "silence"? He had a supercharged c43 and he blew his motor.

For 2k plus labor that you paid for this, you could have had a 5.4 thrown in...

Either way, its a nice mod that id want to do at some point

[Denlasoul]

Or even better....have you heard of "silence"? He had a supercharged c43 and he blew his motor.

For 2k plus labor that you paid for this, you could have had a 5.4 thrown in...

Either way, its a nice mod that id want to do at some point
That is one of my hesitations. Seems like there are issues and not many people can figure them out without killing the motor. I will likely start at 55 swap.

Pricing is all relative. I hope to get a good engine, but replace all the crap parts and do all the performance (custom headers, etc etc). That ends up costing more, but I would rather have it done right then scratching my head later trying to figure out what went wrong (like all the others with problems).

Having the LSD is nice. Grips well and can easily handle any power upgrades. It is actually pretty inexpensive if you can get the power to the ground more efficiently. I'm still playing around with it and getting used to how it kicks in. After many years of not having one, it is like getting used to a different car.