M104 engine

[freakygreek]

Hi all, newbie to the site from South Africa. I have found an engine that I love, and would like some feed back on before I do anything. I currently drive a 94 w202 C220 with 428.000 on the clock. My brother has the 99 w202 C200. My dad has the 01 w202 C280. That's the V6. I found a C280 with an inline 6. The M104 engine. What I would like to know is, how reliable is it, and what manual gearbox will fit the car???
I'm not an automatic box fan, and have the only manual in the family.

Any feed back would be extremely helpful.

[John Jones Jr.]

The common issue with M104's is failed head gaskets. It seems to occur somewhere between 100-150,000 miles judging by reports and engine wiring looms can start to break up, the insulation starts to degrade and bare wires touch! First signs can be a mis-fire. All 717 manual gearboxes should bolt up, even a Getrag from a 190E 2.3/2.5-16 from what I recall. The C280 M104 was available from the factory with a 717.441 manual transmission.

[freakygreek]

Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated. From what I have heard, it wasn't available in manual. My next question arrises with the gear box, will the 717 gearbox be able to handle the torque output from the engine???

[John Jones Jr.]

Sorry, can't advise you on what manual box to get. Personally, I'd take the risk with any box that just bolts up and go from there. Given the choice and you can't find the factory spec 717.441, I'd opt for a W202/W208 Kompressor if possible but whatever box you go for check that the speedo drive/signal is compatible. Anyway once you've got the car converted to manual it always easy to change gearboxes later (may need a matching flywheel, as I think the M104 engine is fitted with a dual mass flywheel) the diff too - the manual C280 has 3.67 ratio, auto 2.87. Bear in mind there may be electronic issues to overcome, like the engine E.C.U. looking for a signal from the autobox T.C.U.? Unsure about it but later W202's have this issue as far as I know. Try and find some info on that aspect.

[freakygreek]

Ok thanks. Yea, as I said, my 202 is already a manual box, however, I highly dought that, for argument sake my gear box fits on the m104, it won't handle the torque. Both engine and gearbox have done 429000km, without over hauls. I'll see what I can find on the detains of the info you have given me.

[Dearlove]

your box will fit a m104

[John Jones Jr.]

Ok thanks. Yea, as I said, my 202 is already a manual box, however, I highly dought that, for argument sake my gear box fits on the m104, it won't handle the torque. Both engine and gearbox have done 429000km, without over hauls. I'll see what I can find on the detains of the info you have given me.

So, what are you actually trying to do, convert the C280 you found to manual trans or fit it's M104 into your current manual C220?

Anyway, what's the difference between the C220 and C280 manual boxes... I'd suggest (don't know for certain) it's possibly only gear ratios rather than torque rating and ratios (and that might only be 5th gear). Even the diff ratios for both manual versions of the C220 and C280 (M104) are the same @ 3.67.

In theory your C220 gearbox and diff are compatible for the M104 2.8.

[freakygreek]

Initially I want to swap my M111 with a M104 engine. I believe it did come with a manual box, however I can`t find evidence that we got the manual in South Africa. If not, then maybe my current manual might fit, but i dono if it could handle the power of the M104.

Many thanks and appreciation for your help, knowledge and input.

[Dearlove]

I wouldn't be worried about the torque of a 2.8 m104

[John Jones Jr.]

I can`t find evidence that we got the manual in South Africa.

I've only ever seen one C280 manual and that was in Germany and saw one advertised for sale in the U.K.. Very possible there were special order only in RSA and other countries too.

[KrumB]

Hi,
M104 and M111 use the same gearbox to engine mount and the gearbox can handle the torque no problems.

Here's a research on the topic. It's in bulgarian but you can use google translator.....
http://forums.mbclub.bg/topic/35906-%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D 0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D 0%B8-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0/

[KrumB]

Hi,
M104 and M111 use the same gearbox to engine mount and the gearbox can handle the torque no problems.

Here's a research on the topic. It's in bulgarian but you can use google translator.....
http://forums.mbclub.bg/topic/35906-%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D 0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D 0%B8-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0/

[freakygreek]

I wouldn't be worried about the torque of a 2.8 m104

Thing is My current M111 has done 429000km from 1994. original gearbox and engine. That`s why I`m curious about the power of the M104 on my current tranny.

[John Jones Jr.]

Thanks Krum, that's good info.