Head Unit With BOSE audio?

[qqbennyqq]

hi i just recently bought a pioneer deh-p8500mp . i was wondering if the stock amp will s till be activated.. once i add this head unit and will the sound sound better? one store tried to rip me off and told me i needed to rewire.. i dont know if its true.. but what will the effects be? anyone instal headunit in addition to the bose system?

[jnolte]

yo

I had the same proble. I had a Pionner deck also. I had a diffrent year than you but its pre face lift also 1995. I went to 4 diffrent audio store...4 DIFFRENT ONES! Every time they told me they needed to rewire to the bose amp or it wont work. so finally one of my freinds knew the shop manager of the Good Guys install shop. We asked him he said NO, you dont have too but it is suggested. If you dont it will pull power from your deck and not the amp, but if you get it wired it will pull power from the amp. I just had them hook it up real fast and it was getting power fromn the deck and it does sound better. The deck has more range for sound then the stock amp it just isnt as good of sound when you have it FULL blast as if you has id hooked to the amp.

[J Irwan]

Hey man

This has been ask may times
No offense but next time use the search function and you should fine the answer

The answer is easy route yes you'd still need to use your Bose Amp, or you could run a new wire from the headunit to each of the speakers (this is more paint in the butt, since you would need to take apart the interior lining and carpet to run the new wires).


And another thing is that all Bose speaker is 2 ohm configuration, with this being said, that it is not recommended to power up Bose system directly with Aftermarket HeadUnit.
Therefore utilizing BOSE amp is the way to go, since the BOSE amp has built in crossover for each speaker (front tweeter, front mid, rear door mid, rear mid on the rear deck and the bass unit).


I even have a thread with all part number for the necessary adapter and wiring harness that you'd need..

thread 1 (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=759&highlight=Bose)


And here a thread that even has the pic of the above part described, pic courtesy of pnsji

htread 2 (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2029&highlight=Bose)


And J Nolte your reply confuse me, and not really provide a solution.
Man next time be concised and clear :p



Regardz,

[qqbennyqq]

ok so after dealing wit the people that tried to tell me rewire.. i went back to my original source... they just hooked everythin up normally and my system sounds crzy clean dont know why,, like suepr good i guess the bose.. is like i dont kno.. just that it seems like i need another noise filter.. i already ahve one but that hissing sound is loud and they messed up the part where when i pull out the key my head unit resets.,, crap need to fix

[jnolte]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
ok so after dealing wit the people that tried to tell me rewire.. i went back to my original source... they just hooked everythin up normally and my system sounds crzy clean dont know why,, like suepr good i guess the bose.. is like i dont kno.. just that it seems like i need another noise filter.. i already ahve one but that hissing sound is loud and they messed up the part where when i pull out the key my head unit resets.,, crap need to fix


EXACT same thing happened to my w202, i got it hooked up the same way too! I had that hissing sound and my deck would turn off and reset! I think the hissing sound is from not rewiring the amp.

[J Irwan]

Okay

Here is the thing:

Most aftermarket headunit these days, they produce high output wattage.

Which is good.

And off course you could connect the speaker level output from the HeadUnit to the BOSE amplifier, and it will sounds okay.

But the problem is this, all amplifier should accept the input from the headunit as signal only.
The fact that you feeding the BOSE amp this high output signal from HeadUnit is not healthy for the BOSE amp.

This is why I recommend you to get Hi-Low line converter to reduce these output before feeding it to Bose AMP.
It also has adjustment for each channel (FR, FL, RR, RL) for input sensivity. You can tweak this input sensivity adjustment and this will solve your noise problem ;)

the manufacture of these is Pheripheral Electronic and the part number is VEN4.5

http://gilbreth.ecn.purdue.edu/~nkumala/pnsji/cd400/harnesswithven45.jpg



Also the problem with the headunit reset when you pull out the key is because they connected the constant 12V wire from the headunit to ACC wire from the car.
Which I can't believe they could make such a simple mistake.
If I were you i'd take it back.
Also did you purchase this wiring harness, or you let the shop splicing you original harnes in the car..?



Regardz,

[qqbennyqq]

thanks... the thing is.. i had a high low converter before.. beforei installed the headunit i had subs and amp already so i needed one.. now the high low is just not connected with anything.. and the rca is goin straigt to the amp from the headunit. my freind told me about the power thing too.. he said its easy to fix im not sure.. though. and i have a question is that where is the bose amp? and if i keep it like this you said it would be bad for the amp, will it break? because right now my sound is alot cleaner than before

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
thanks... the thing is.. i had a high low converter before.. beforei installed the headunit i had subs and amp already so i needed one.. now the high low is just not connected with anything.. and the rca is goin straigt to the amp from the headunit. my freind told me about the power thing too.. he said its easy to fix im not sure.. though. and i have a question is that where is the bose amp? and if i keep it like this you said it would be bad for the amp, will it break? because right now my sound is alot cleaner than before



Before I can answer and help further, please clarify

If you going directly using RCA to the Amp in which I am assuming aftermarket Amp, is this amp only to power subwoofer or other speaker..

I am confused by this statement " the high low is just not connected with anything..". Can you be more specific what do you mean by this.

Since I don't want to guess, and in order to help further I need to understand exactly what is your current setup and what is connected to what ;)


The bose amp on behing the trunk lining on driver side (On your left when you open and face the trunk)


Regardz,

[qqbennyqq]

ok i use to have stock headiunit with a amp and subs.. yes teh aftermarket amp is just for the 2 subs.. so inorder to hjook up the amp to the stock headunit i needed a high low cconverter.. .. but now i changed the headunit i do not need it anymore .. so i disconnected the originall rca comin from the high low and i just ran another rca from headunit to amp// so now the highlow is like just stitin there

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
ok i use to have stock headiunit with a amp and subs.. yes teh aftermarket amp is just for the 2 subs.. so inorder to hjook up the amp to the stock headunit i needed a high low cconverter.. .. but now i changed the headunit i do not need it anymore .. so i disconnected the originall rca comin from the high low and i just ran another rca from headunit to amp// so now the highlow is like just stitin there


Whe you said you change headunit,
Were you on OEM headunit, then change to aftermarket one or the other way around..?

From wha't you decribe you might be referreing to "RCA to line converter"
Please take a look at the pic of "hi-low line converter" it has speaker level as input and output (no RCA connectors involve here)

Does this mean you're connecting the speaker output from the headunit to the bose amp without "hi-low line converter"..?

Here is the thing:
For now just disregard the aftermarket amp and the subwoofer.
Youre right to connect this amp using the RCA (by the way does this new headunit has 3 pair of RCA's : Front, Rear, Non Fading Subwofer output..? )
Bose AMP will accept speaker line input not the RCA input.

This speaker input will come from the speaker output of your Headunit (if you don't want to do any modification or extra work. I'll explain later ;)).

As I have mentioned above these speaker out from the headunit is a highoutput channel, and if you feed these to the BOSE AMP as input, it will shorten your BOSE AMP, and also it has that "noise" problem you describe.
The purpose for that hi-low line converter so that you can adjust the input sensivity (in this case you might to tuned in down before it goes to the BOSE amp).



Now another solution is to make make a custom RCA to speaker level cable. (This will involves a RCA plug/connector and some soldering) or you could buy RCA to speaker line converter.
IF you go this route you're not using the speaker output from the headunit.


Regardz,

[qqbennyqq]

thanks so which means , right now im feeding my headunits output to the imput of the bose amp.. therefor the my speakers are now handling the power of the headunit and the bose amp.. dats why its so loud .. dats good but just the hissing sound,,. and its goin to kill the bose amp.. but i dont think teh bose amp is that good so i guess ill just leave it liikke this to avoid spendin any more money .. i just need to fix that power problem now,, which when i take the key out of the car the pioneer headunit has complete no power.. so everything resets,,

[qqbennyqq]

and by the way.. after i had the pioneer deh-850mp installed my fm and signal became really weak like really really weeak.... but the antanee goes up like ussual when i turn on the radio. my cousin had same problem on his w203 same radio same place installeedd.. dont know if its the radio or that place just sucks...

[x15jq]

Myabe u didndt get the antenna adaptor. Its the same one that works for a VW, i had weak signal on my 203 until i insalled it.

[qqbennyqq]

doesnt the antanne adapter come with the headunit i saw it.. like its about 1 feet long right?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by x15jq
Myabe u didndt get the antenna adaptor. Its the same one that works for a VW, i had weak signal on my 203 until i insalled it.



That what I was going to say, probably the antena is not hooked-up

If you have a shop installed it for you then maybe you could take a look at the invoice as what kind of hardware they put in your car.

and please please read again my post from the top carefully

Based on 2 link I gave you earlier there are 3 things you need to install aftermarket headunit, and still using Bose AMP and stock Bose speaker without messing around with cuttting/splicing OE wiring harness
1. VW/Audi Wiring Harness (and yes it is the same for MB)
2. Radio antenna Adapter (see above again for part number)
3. Hi to Low Line converter (see above again for explanation)


Hope this helps.


Regardz,

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
doesnt the antanne adapter come with the headunit i saw it.. like its about 1 feet long right?


The antenna adapter never come with Aftermarket headunit

Aftermarket unit has about 10" black wire for antenna, but this connector won't match with any Eurpopean radio harness (i.e BMW, MB, VW, Audi), there for you need to buy this "radio antenna adapter" so that you could plug the antenna to the headunit.



Regardz,

[pnsji]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
doesnt the antanne adapter come with the headunit i saw it.. like its about 1 feet long right?

I would recommend you reading my thread about how to install Nakamichi Head Unit. It should be the same as in your case.

And No, it does not come with one.

[Nazrat]

Has anyone tried hooking up the line-level outputs from an aftermarket headunit to the input on the bose amp? This is essentially what you'd be doing with a speaker to line level converter, right?

Thanks,
Tad

[pnsji]

Originally posted by Nazrat
Has anyone tried hooking up the line-level outputs from an aftermarket headunit to the input on the bose amp? This is essentially what you'd be doing with a speaker to line level converter, right?

Thanks,
Tad

I actually tried it before and the system makes some noise because the output voltage of the head unit does not match the input voltage of the bose amp.

In my thread http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2029 , depending on what year is your car, you would need or would not need the converter.

The converter is to match the output of your headunit to the bose amplifier.

[qqbennyqq]

ok the way the store installed mine was after they removed my stock headunit .. 2 things were cliped togehter and 1 was cliped to the harness and then to the headunit. it does make the noise from the speakers. but it feels alot more powerful and cleaner.

[pnsji]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
ok the way the store installed mine was after they removed my stock headunit .. 2 things were cliped togehter and 1 was cliped to the harness and then to the headunit. it does make the noise from the speakers. but it feels alot more powerful and cleaner.

With the converter, it will sound as clear as what you hear right now.

It is still not correct.
Let's say the volume goes from 0 - 50.
Probably, right now at volume 5, it is already LOUD -> because the voltage is not correct -> hence the noise.

With the converter, you adjust it so that at volume 25, it start getting LOUD.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by qqbennyqq
ok the way the store installed mine was after they removed my stock headunit .. 2 things were cliped togehter and 1 was cliped to the harness and then to the headunit. it does make the noise from the speakers. but it feels alot more powerful and cleaner.


I am not sure I am following, 2 things from where were clip together..? ....

If I were you I'd take your car to a shop who knows what they're doing, especially the one that has been dealing with Mercedes a lot.


Basic wiring there will be 4 main wiring (aside from the speaker wires) that will need to be connected in order for the headunit to have power.

1.Ground (usually black from headunit wiring)
2.Contant 12V+ (usually yellow/red depending on headunit-brand)
3.illumination (usually yellow/orange depending on headunit and brand
4.Antenna/remote (usually blue thin wire (thinner than those #1-#3) and this should be connected to powered up the antenna motor/antenna booster in your car depending on what kind of antenna you have (pre 97 or 97-up W202).


Then following these 4 above.
There will be:
5.Radio antenna and connect to the radio antenna connector from the car, and for this you'd need the radio antenna adapter (this radio antenna if for radio signal)
6.The speaker wires (4 pair=8 different wires)

And as I have explained earlier the function of this hi-low converter to adjust the input sensivity.

Also LOUDER doesn't necessary mean the signal is CLEARER.
Beside louder it might introduce a lot of noise in the sound quality.

Regardz,

[qqbennyqq]

ok finaly.. my freind pulled out my headunit after i went to best buys to get the keys for pioneer headunit.. tehn he said everythin was connected right. so we assumed its the harness thats mesed up .. so he ended up connectin the yellow wire with the red wire.. so that wya when we pull out the key radio still on.. i guess its like the new mb style and its better than havin no power at all.. so now i can listen without my key on .. just gotta watch it or it wil ldrain battery

[x15jq]

hey when I put a panasonic headunit mp3 iin my 99 clk 320 with BOSE, i did not use the convertor. I did notice the volume went to 40 and it started to distort at a mere 25-30 tho.

I did not have ANY hissing noises or anything, but i really didnt think the sound improvement was worth it.

To top it off, on my convertible, the amp is hidden well i cant find it, on coupes its just like your w202's (since the clk is based off the 202) but on the convertible the amp is MIA lol

So Im not sure what to do, I have a rockford 12 and a 500S ampr ight now, puts out sick bass I have it tapped on the rear stock subwoofer output.

Only disadvantage is that it is directly linked to the headunit, and i cant independantly adjust the volume. All i really wanted was louder crisper sound, everyone says changing the headunit would give me crisper highs, but i wasnt getting it with the panasonic. Perhaps I need to rewiure and get all new speakers? I feel the bose system isnt that bad, but im not sure what i did wrong

p.s I do all my installations myself and the only thing I could think of was the 4 channel line level conv.

[x15jq]

on mb install swap the red/yellow there reversed. This will allow it to turn on when the key is in position 2.

[qqbennyqq]

well from my past experience with headunits.. panasonics sound quality wasnt as pleasing as the pioneer.. for sq i think alpine and pioneer does the best.. but panasonics graphic is very good. and sony is just in between..

wait what do you mean they are reverseed?

[vas2vas]

did you check both fuses for the audio system.... one for acc (hot only on ignition) and a separzte one for the constant 12v from battery for memory.... had the same problem in my old bmw after putting an aftermarket HU and it was b/c the fuse had blown......

[J Irwan]

To those who wants to know what it takes to install aftermarket headunit in W202/W208/W210


READ this thread thoroughly..



If there is some detail that you don't understand, Ill be glad to help..



For other problems/issues make sure you do search , thorough search...on the forum.

If the information has been posted before you WILL FIND It if you 're willing to search for it..



Regardz,

[714guy]

here are some cliff notes for those who dont know whats goin on when installing an after HU with the stock bose system.

Basically inorder to get a aftermarket HU into the car while using the Bose amp and speakers you need :

- aftermarket HU ($$$)
- v/w audi harness($15)
- hi/lo converter($15-40)

tools

- mercedes radio keys(to remove the HU) or you can try using the keys that come with your new HU those work sometimes.
- crimper tool or soldering iron
- crimpers(red butt ends) or shrinking tube
- wire cutters

the job itself is fairly easy, i'd say on a scale of 1-10 its a 5

the basic steps

- remove stock HU
- connect the Hi/lo converter to the harness and HU harness(look at one of Pnsji article very detail and idoit proof)
- connect the harness to the car
- tune hi/lo converter
- still back enjoy and pat yourself on the back
- Thanks Club202 for all the helpful info and promise next time you'll use the search option and promise you'll have more faith in Club202's resources. :D

[jnolte]

Okay after searching and reading many posts on this there is one thing that i am confused on. The Hi Lo converter. In pnsjis thread How to Install a Nakamichi CD400 he uses a Hi LO converter in the pic for a 1999 C280 with bose. Now in his thread he types u only have to use it for 1994-1997 w202 with bose. SO the question is for a 1998 w202 with bose do not need to use a hi low converter or was it a mis type? \\thanks

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by jnolte
Okay after searching and reading many posts on this there is one thing that i am confused on. The Hi Lo converter. In pnsjis thread How to Install a Nakamichi CD400 he uses a Hi LO converter in the pic for a 1999 C280 with bose. Now in his thread he types u only have to use it for 1994-1997 w202 with bose. SO the question is for a 1998 w202 with bose do not need to use a hi low converter or was it a mis type? \\thanks


If you're planning to use Bose amp, then get the Hi-low conventer...


why...?

this is more fundamental knowledge on car electronic..

all amplifier is design to accept signal from the headunit.
(some have built in hi-low converter, that's why certain amp can accept speaker level input)

And almost all aftermarket, has high output wattage these day.
And if you feed these(high output wattage) to your amp, if will fry your amp and who knows what other complication . . sooner or later..

Also there is no way to rewire Bose Amp to fit aftermarket headunit..

that is just bull, what are you trying to accomplished by re-wiring.


Bose Amp on my car has 7 channel
and is configured specifically for specific bose speaker.
2 front dash (with specific freq program), 2 front door midbass speaker,2 rear door midrange , 2 rear shelf midrange, and 1 rear shelf bass unit.

And if you're planning to use aftermarket speaker, then get Aftermarket amps, or connect your aftermarket headunit to the aftermarket speaker directly... (bose speaker rated at 2ohm)

Aftermarket headunit is rated at 4 ohm impedance, so does 99% of car speaker.


It is very important to understand the concept before playing around with car ICE , especially car electronic getting more and more complicated these days.

The last thing you want it to have short in your electrical system.

Regardz,

[714guy]

Originally posted by J Irwan
If you're planning to use Bose amp, then get the Hi-low conventer...


why...?

this is more fundamental knowledge on car electronic..

all amplifier is design to accept signal from the headunit.
(some have built in hi-low converter, that's why certain amp can accept speaker level input)

And almost all aftermarket, has high output wattage these day.
And if you feed these(high output wattage) to your amp, if will fry your amp and who knows what other complication . . sooner or later..

Also there is no way to rewire Bose Amp to fit aftermarket headunit..

that is just bull, what are you trying to accomplished by re-wiring.


Bose Amp on my car has 7 channel
and is configured specifically for specific bose speaker.
2 front dash (with specific freq program), 2 front door midbass speaker,2 rear door midrange , 2 rear shelf midrange, and 1 rear shelf bass unit.

And if you're planning to use aftermarket speaker, then get Aftermarket amps, or connect your aftermarket headunit to the aftermarket speaker directly... (bose speaker rated at 2ohm)

Aftermarket headunit is rated at 4 ohm impedance, so does 99% of car speaker.


It is very important to understand the concept before playing around with car ICE , especially car electronic getting more and more complicated these days.

The last thing you want it to have short in your electrical system.

Regardz,

good explantion J Irwan, hit it right on the dot.

[pnsji]

Originally posted by jnolte
In pnsjis thread How to Install a Nakamichi CD400 he uses a Hi LO converter in the pic for a 1999 C280 with bose.

I would request you to READ the thread carefully!
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2029&highlight=cd400

[jnolte]

Okay in the article it states that for 94-97 bose u NEED Hi low converter but says nothing for 98+ with bose. But after reading what J Irwan wrote i see that i need a Hi LOw converter for the 98+ with bose system.


SO if u have bose system ANY year 1994-2000 get a Hi LOw converter or your bose stock amp will fry and bad sound quality.

If you dont have Bose which means no stock amp, u dont need to get one.

thanks for setting my mind on the rite path!

[pnsji]

NO!

I posted "For '94-'97 Bose system, you need a line converter. I used ven 4.5 in the past"

Means 98 and newer does NOT need converter. The 98 and newer bose system is different than the older bose system.

Edit:
I talked to J Irwan about this. He confirm that converter would be the way to go due to his experience with clk320 system.
I installed in 99 c280 and no problem... but I could check again.

[J Irwan]

okay

here is the deal,

The reason pnsji installation is worked well without the hi-low converter, is this:

He tried to install the hi-low converter, but the adjustment didn't give him where he wants it to be.
so he decided to take it off and the system sounds fine..


the reaon for this, is coincidently the headunit that he was installing has a matching output (within acceptable range) for OEM bose input (this is rare but can happen given the right brand and output rating)..


That's why I recommend to use hi-lo converter for aftermarket headunit installation... for any headunit installation

Guys like pnsji know when to decide when he needs it or not, because he has the knowledge and he tested before....finalized the install..


Here is another example of similar hi-low converter..

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DHboJUPSiDl/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=11&g=751&I=142CFDK6&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

Like I mentioned earlier the purpose for this is to adjust the output sensivity (input for you Bose amp) so that the sound is not distorted and the sound noise is minimal..

And since this is for general audience is probably safe to recommend this for most installation...


I hope this clear the confussion..



Regardz,

[pnsji]

I lock this thread. If you have a specific question that you can find the answer via search, go ahead and post it.

For Elvir, There is no use of asking questions if you are not going to follow up. Just like the thread about help in the ash tray, you NEVER follow up.