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View Full Version : C36 and C43 powerband



J Irwan
12-14-2003, 10:37 PM
Since we don't have benz discussion thread,

so I am just gonna stick this in here..

I got this for my Germany brochure

Below is

1997 C36 206kw(280 hpSAE or 276hp DIN-US) vs C43 225kw (306hp SAE or 302 hp DIN-US)


http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDPAucTfaBUcRLVIQ4FTB5GKdfa8SvoTGqgi*5yFDjJKAuoL ngRAJr0dN29!VezwYanJ32lHRArdXcHQc4wtxgyAjfijRXyDf5 TCyARs*8/C36%20only.jpghttp://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RQDXAuUT*J!4!OpoZ11R1w5YLkEeHB5HHT*L*v8RGDC4Kt5V9 12xnKpEaCIOmvKmNz*8E1iCXJcAz1AalldiPFFKIYQsz6QLSb9 idsTsjok/C43%20only.jpg


as you can see that low rpm the C36 with smaller displacement actually producing more torque I never know this.
I got bored the other day and went through these brochures.


I just thought other C36 owner might be intersted on these fact ;)



Regardz,

Eurosport
12-15-2003, 07:08 AM
nice graph :)
i think people underestimate the 36 in many ways

kameraguy
12-15-2003, 10:31 AM
LOL! I have the same book and was looking at the same thing :)

Yeah, the C36 may not be the newest or fastest anymore, but it's still a good example of the old ways of AMG.

C280Sportster
12-15-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Eurosport
nice graph :)
i think people underestimate the 36 in many ways

Well, there has to be a reason that the C36 is very close in performance to the C43 considering the engine and power difference.

This (power band) is probably part of the reason. But a few people are doing some research (speedybenz, for one) and finding out that the C43 is being held back by the computer.

I think there is a thread about it somewhere in these forums.

moebiusgold
12-15-2003, 08:04 PM
Don't forget weight. A 43 weighs almost 200Lbs more. I like this data sheet better:
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-e/mercedes-c43-amg.html
BTW a big flat spot in the torque curve (3k to 5 k RPM) is supposed to be a good thing.
The only stock C43 That I have been in was very deceptive because of this. Seat of the pants feel I would guess that my 36 was faster below 55. But smooth power is like quite HP. Very deceptive. I have known of many hotrodders (old, old school) that did a poor job of Modding, and just because they had done this or that and there was more noise, they thought that it was faster. Some were no faster and some were actually slower. For instance, intake (single plane or tunnel ram) and carb and headers tuned for high RPM but no head mods or the wrong cam, torque converter, etc. etc. They probably had more power somewhere (higher RPM than stock) but the band was not wide enough to be usable. Dyno's are a good start but there is no substitute for the Track.

speedybenz
12-15-2003, 08:53 PM
Well J the scales on the graphs for torque are different for the C36 and the C43, so it makes it look like the C36 is producing more power. Well the C36 does make more power from 0-1000rpm.

Plus I think the C36 is about 100lbs heavier than the C43.

J Irwan
12-15-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by speedybenz
Well J the scales on the graphs for torque are different for the C36 and the C43, so it makes it look like the C36 is producing more power. Well the C36 does make more power from 0-1000rpm.

Plus I think the C36 and the C43 weigh very close to the same?


I am not implying C36 engine produce more power than C43 engine does.

But I was suprised myself to find the power curve of C36 to have more torque from below 1500rpm.


I would think C43 will more torque the entire rpm range. :)

At 1500 rpm C36 and C43 has the same torque.
I don't know what Mercedes did wrong , but with the increase hp and torque and same weight, I'd expect C43 can walkaway from C36 easily.

But the real life performance is very similar..

Nevertheless, If I one a C43, Id be interested to put this H&S Elektronik chip on it

I was thinking of putting this chip on my car before I put Powerchip a while ago, but I couldn't get a hold anyone by email.
And I am not sure if anyone over there speak english.

So I just forget it and go for Powerchip :)



Regardz,

moebiusgold
12-15-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by speedybenz
Well J the scales on the graphs for torque are different for the C36 and the C43, so it makes it look like the C36 is producing more power. Well the C36 does make more power from 0-1000rpm.

Hmm, I have to agree. I could never get my C36 engine to run at 1000 RPM and WOT even at 0 MPH. If the car is rolling at more than 10 MPH and I apply WOT, I don't think that I see much under 3,000 RPM. Looking at my data logging I see 2900 something at the boggiest downshift.

I like these also:
http://www.myhps.com/c43/dynoc43after.html
http://www.myhps.com/c43/dynoc43before.html
This last one probably reflects typical real world C43 at the rear wheels. The first one supports what J Irwin has been saying all along, and the longer that I have it (this C43), the more that I belive it. Sorry Mike, I think that your claims are just that.:( :D
As a side I am having MAF problems. I put a new one in last Monday night and by Fri. it started surging randomly below 1500 RPM. This is generating a P0100 MAF circut error every other start.:( I find it hard to belive that it has gone bad in 200 miles but I will admit that everything is pointing to it. The orig one was acting the exact same way. HPS is slower than I would like responding to this. Their "expert" is out of town doing service calls. The baseline I have for the 43 shows about 1/3 more mass air flow at any setting than what I am seeing now. :bored: :( :mad: I want one of those MB Star scanners. I feel like I am trying to figure this out with 10% of what I need to know.:mad:

speedybenz
12-15-2003, 09:36 PM
J,

I know just what your saying and I don't think the real world performance of the C43 in stock form is very outstanding either.

I think the power output and potential for the C36 is greater considering it is a 4 valve cylinder head and hand built with a higher compression motor. It is too bad the block is cast iron, but only from the standpoint of extra weight.

Some high quality rods and pistons, close up the piston to head clearance to .035", set compression to 11:1 and time the cams to optimum, clean up the ports on the head and fit the header.

I would think close to 325 at the wheels is very realist.

Jeff