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speedybenz
01-09-2004, 08:19 AM
It's not a verygood pic. But it shows how I removed the right fog light and replaced it with an air duct which has flexible tubing connected to the back and then routes up to the stock airbox.

The location of the duct is in a very high presssure air location and creates a ram air situation to the airbox a speed.

More pics to follow.

http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/speedybenz-c43/DSC00923.sized.jpg

36SlaMMed
01-09-2004, 08:36 AM
Nice job , Be careful dont get hydrolocked.

What kinda filters are you using?

Gary

Denlasoul
01-09-2004, 08:53 AM
Nice. Can you feel any difference?

Also, glad I'm not the only one with a scratched up bumper. :)

speedybenz
01-09-2004, 08:57 AM
DLS,

Yes there is a pretty good difference. This one trick I noticed right away. At a steady 20mph I can floor it and spin the rear tires when it shifts down to 1st gear.

Plus it pulls very hard right to redline. So hard in fact it's difficult not to hit the rev limiter if you are shifting manually. And 0-60mph in 5.3 sec.

Jeff

J Irwan
01-09-2004, 10:06 AM
Jeff,


So now you have longer intake route to to the throttle body ..?

Also do you this for both your intake (inlet) or just passenger side.


If some old-benzsporter remember

I also did take a flex hose and connected it to the passenger side brake duct on my C36 (it has hole on top of it for secondary intake inlet for stock AMG airbox)

so when I used this route, the problem that I had with this setup (longer intake router than what I currently have (next to headlight intake-inlet)) is the throttle response is lagging.. because of the longer route..

That's why I came up with a way to use the headlight inlet(next to passenger headlight inlet)


But I can see as you go fast it will improve the air-speed coming into the intake-inlet..

(that's why my avant-gard grill has no bump that cover the intake-inlet, and I remove the plastic grill cover which cover the fans (in front of the car) that why the air will be coming straight through to my intake-inlet (next to headlight) ;) )

Just something to keep in mind..:)


Now if someone can design a Y pipe with an electronic controlled valve, so that you could use the headlight inlet from a dead-stop
and use the foglight inlet as you pick up some speed....

that would be super.. :D :D :D



Regardz,

speedybenz
01-09-2004, 02:35 PM
Junaidi,

I will send some more pics to show what I've done. Right after I pick up the air flow with 3" flex tubing I connect this to 4" flex tubing that goes to the airbox. I believe that the larger tubing does not infulence the exsisting airbox harmonics to any degree as I do not have any throttle lag.

And yes I have been able to run tubing from both the right and left side of the car.

Also I have increased the MAS sensor body from 76mm to 82mm by boring it out. This is a 16.5% increase in area. Both stock screens have been removed anf replaced by a new screen which contains large 1/2" hexagonal openings that help to straighten out airflow by the MAS sensor itself. Again pics to follow.

Jeff

J Irwan
01-09-2004, 03:41 PM
oh I see now what you did

so basically the original intake-inlet opening still intact but you put additional ram air inlet to the OEM one..

that means you had to cut a hole then..?


That's a little different than what I did, back then I use the intake route from the brake duct area (and disconnect the OEM one, not using the OEM intake opening next to headlight) hence the only intake mouth now has longer router , that's why although I have more free-flow intake filter, I also had some "throttle lag"

I had thought about making a Y adapter so that I will have two intake-inlet opening like your (one OEM and OEM RAm air from the bumper area), but I just don't have enough space to squees any Y adapter, unless I am willing to drilled my CF intake canister which I am still hestitant to do yet :D :D :D

In your case, the OEM intake route still available, so you don't feel any worse than OEM, and you feel more gain from flooring the car at speed (higher air-velocity from your fog-light intake ram)...

nice.. ;)


Regardz,

speedybenz
01-09-2004, 08:34 PM
http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/speedybenz-c43/DSC00926.sized.jpg


http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/speedybenz-c43/DSC01165.sized.jpg

http://www.joeyandmona.com/albums/speedybenz-c43/DSC01167.sized.jpg
The pics above show the air ducts mounted to the inside of the front bumper and then the 4" diameter tubing that supplies the air to the airbox and the laminer flow generator that is placed into the bored out MAS body; 76mm to 82mm.

Jeff

cyclocross
01-10-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz ... the laminer flow generator that is placed into the bored out MAS body; 76mm to 82mm.

Jeff

What is that green thing? It can't "generate" laminar flow because the Reynolds Number through the throttle body is too large (~470,000) at say 6,000 RPM. It also looks to be too shallow to be an effective straightening vane.

I may have missed something here. What is the problem with the stock CAIs? I would have thought that the greatest restriction would have been the air filter element abruptly blocking 30%-40% of the inlet to the filter housing. A simple radiused bell covering the filter element will allow more flow and couple of more HP.

speedybenz
01-10-2004, 09:25 PM
Your right, the green thing will not generate laminar flow but it does help to straighten out the incoming airflow slightly so that the MAS sensor gets a better reading and thus gives a little sharper throttle response and acceleration.

The rubber seal that attaches to the MAS has been carefully radiused to approximate a nice inlet airhorn. And the airbox has also been modified on the inside to increase airflow. Also by adding the large 4" diameter tubing to the intake system I have effectively increased the size of the airbox.

The lower mounted air ducts are located in a higher pressure area of the car so they take in more air then the upper stock intake locations. The stock intake tubes are just too small to feed the motor 1000cfm of fresh air. While the inlet to the tubes is not very well shaped.

In short I am getting fresh air that is avg. only 10-15 degrees F above outside air temp. And like I said it will spin the 255mm wide tires on the downshift to 1st gear at 20mph and it did not do this before.

Jeff

ricerokets4life
01-11-2004, 06:43 AM
how did you bore the MAS out?

speedybenz
01-11-2004, 08:00 AM
To bore out the MAS I used the lathe in my garage and a boring bar.

Jeff

cyclocross
01-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
... the airbox has also been modified on the inside to increase airflow ... The stock intake tubes are just too small to feed the motor 1000cfm of fresh air ...
Jeff

Hi, Jeff.

Did you modify the lower filter housing to avoid the air filter restriction and to provide larger connections for the 4" hoses?

1,000 CFM? I calculate about 290 CFM for each inlet at 6,000 RPM. Also, I calculate only 0.08 PSI loss from the inlet bell to the filter housing inlet. Other than the loss across the air filter the biggest loss appears to be the air filter projecting into the housing inlet. Do you have any data on aif filter losses?

TIA

speedybenz
01-11-2004, 07:19 PM
cyclocross,

I am sorry I wrote down the number of CFM for the exhaust flow to have zero backpressure which is 1000 CFM.

THe intake needs a minimum of 450CFM at 6000 and about 500 CFM at 6500.

I drilled the airbox and fitted some vacuum fittings to measure the pressure in the intake and even built a manometer. But never got around to doing the actual testing. Instead I just Bulled ahead and constructed a ram air system.

THe K&N filters do not intrud into the airbox space like the stock filter do and I have enlarged the airbox by fitting a 1/2" think spacer that fits between the two airbox halfs. I also have sized the 4" tubing to fit the stock opening. It maybe a little overkill now but when I get rid of the backpressure from the rear or 2nd set of Cats, which are at 4-5 psi at full-throttle. My dual 2.5" cat back exhaust has less than 1psi of backpressure.

I have plans to tune the A/F ratio and iginition timing soon also.

Jeff

cyclocross
01-12-2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
cyclocross,

... I drilled the airbox and fitted some vacuum fittings to measure the pressure in the intake and even built a manometer...

... THe K&N filters do not intrud into the airbox space like the stock filter do and I have enlarged the airbox by fitting a 1/2" think spacer that fits between the two airbox halfs...
Jeff

Hi, Jeff.
I've often thought about obtaining some actual flow data. Trouble is finding the time and an empty freeway to do the testing.
Good idea! The K&Ns are thinner than the stock AMG filters. I did not think there was sufficient clearence between the filter housing and the hood to allow a spacer. Now I know. Thanks.

714guy
01-12-2004, 10:22 AM
Jeff where did you get that flex tubing???

speedybenz
01-12-2004, 10:28 AM
I got the tubing from Sacramento Rubber a local, to me supplier. I will have to look again at what the material is called, but it has a smooth inner surface and bends very nice. It is available in several sizes. I bought both 3" and 4" diameter tubing.

I run a short section of 3" tubing from the ducts at the bumper and then use a tapered fitting to connect the 4" tubing.

It is not as nice looking as the stock inlets, but it is not hideous either.

Jeff

714guy
01-12-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
I got the tubing from Sacramento Rubber a local, to me supplier. I will have to look again at what the material is called, but it has a smooth inner surface and bends very nice. It is available in several sizes. I bought both 3" and 4" diameter tubing.

I run a short section of 3" tubing from the ducts at the bumper and then use a tapered fitting to connect the 4" tubing.

It is not as nice looking as the stock inlets, but it is not hideous either.

Jeff

i noticed the the the tubing has the wires on the the outside and wondered it that mattered at all, b/c i though you wanted something totally smooth on the intake.

The systems looks very aggressive with the 4 inch tubing. I am about to run a piece of the tubing from the hole in the bumper up to the air box also. I bought a 3 in 90dgree mandrel bend to do, would that work?? i was looking for somthing plastic but couldn't find it locally or a place that sold it by the foot. I know that the system would have to be air tight also, still have to work out the details .

speedybenz
01-12-2004, 10:46 AM
The tubing is smooth on the inside.

It sounds like you are on the right track with your setup.

And yes make it airtight to get the most benefit.

Jeff

Brabus
01-12-2004, 01:10 PM
Wow, this is some good information on air intake. I think I want to redo my setup as I'm confident I'm losing HP with my mushroom intake....

714guy
01-12-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Brabus
Wow, this is some good information on air intake. I think I want to redo my setup as I'm confident I'm losing HP with my mushroom intake....

you were'nt the only one, once my MAS went dead i put my stock airbox in with stock filter the car ran a lot better and the power was smoother.

98c43amg
06-13-2005, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
I run a short section of 3" tubing from the ducts at the bumper and then use a tapered fitting to connect the 4" tubing. [bump] I know this is a =real old= thread ... ya gotta admit it's one of the best tho if you have an 8-cylinder...

Jeff, I was looking into doing what you did with the ducting, and I noticed a "tank" (for the A/C?) in the way on the driver's side. Did you relocate it or did you remove the A/C from you car completely? (sorry if you told me when I was there and forgot)

Also, I'd like to ask, how did you construct the 1/2" spacer? What material is the actual spacer, and what did you use for the top and bottom seals to provide an air-tight mating to the original top and bottom of the airbox?

All help appreciated,
Steve

P.S. are you still boring out MAF housing's for people?

mXm
06-13-2005, 06:50 PM
Any thoughts on a funnel-type intake?

- the air accelerates as it travels throught the shrinking tube
- at starts you should have a throttle response closer to a ram air intake then a long CAI
- can still route it to the bottom (or any good place) to get cold air

correct me if I'm wrong please :Paranoid:

speedybenz
06-14-2005, 09:36 PM
Yes I am still boring out the MAS housing. I removed the 1/2" spacer as I could not tell that it made a noticable difference in power or throttle response.

The fog light locations make great places to locate a Ram Air ducts as it is a very high pressure area on the front of the car.

Getting the air tubing behind the lights on the driver side required me to flatten the rubber piping and unbolt the headlight to get everything placed as well as possible. The passenger side has to be working much better than the drivers side.

A funnell type pipe can work well but to be most effiecient it needs to have the side angles at about 8-10 degrees.

Jeff

coolcarlskic43
06-15-2005, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by speedybenz
Yes I am still boring out the MAS housing. I removed the 1/2" spacer as I could not tell that it made a noticable difference in power or throttle response.

The fog light locations make great places to locate a Ram Air ducts as it is a very high pressure area on the front of the car.

Getting the air tubing behind the lights on the driver side required me to flatten the rubber piping and unbolt the headlight to get everything placed as well as possible. The passenger side has to be working much better than the passenger side.

A funnell type pipe can work well but to be most effiecient it needs to have the side angles at about 8-10 degrees.

Jeff Hi Jeff I'm just wondering if you could finally give me an answer on the phenolic spacers for the intake manifold?Are they special order to make or do you stck them?I keep asking you but I have not gotten a response.


I don't know Steve maybe you can get in touch with Jeff and see what he says about this.I've had no luck getting in contact.

speedybenz
06-15-2005, 12:52 PM
Hi Carl,

Sorry for the slow response. But I do not stock phenolic spacers or any part for that matter, they are all made as requests come in from buyers like you. Let me see if I can dig up the number of the guy who will make them for around $100. I made mine but he makes them all the time for all sorts of cars.

I just need to do a search for phenloic spacers on this site.

Jeff

coolcarlskic43
06-15-2005, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by speedybenz
Hi Carl,

Sorry for the slow response. But I do not stock phenolic spacers or any part for that matter, they are all made as requests come in from buyers like you. Let me see if I can dig up the number of the guy who will make them for around $100. I made mine but he makes them all the time for all sorts of cars.

I just need to do a search for phenloic spacers on this site.

Jeff Hey!!! Alright!:D OK Jeff I'll try searching some of your posts as well.I 'll also chk MB world.But thanx for the response.I thought Steve was the only one with the Bat Phne! LOL!;)

Ashkan's C280
06-15-2005, 11:19 PM
what is a phenloic spacers, and what does it do? And what do you get by having this guy make them?

98c43amg
06-16-2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Hey!!! Alright!:D OK Jeff I'll try searching some of your posts as well.I 'll also chk MB world.But thanx for the response.I thought Steve was the only one with the Bat Phne! LOL!;) ;) I definitely dunno about that ... still waiting for a response on a couple of things... :p Last I heard it's a bad time for Jeff, getting slammed @ work.

Jeff, if you get a chance, so what's the manufacturer of the dual chamber muffler you're using? I'll research the rest I asked about.

98c43amg
06-16-2005, 08:05 PM
I spent a few hours searching Club202, and learned a good many things about Jeff's intake and exhaust (BTW, that Club202 Clubracer Challenge thread needs to be revived! ... Jeff, what ever happened with that European Auto mag article?!)

Carl, one of the things I read was Jeff didn't think it added HP, but added a good deal of response, making the car feel like it was 50 degrees outside in the summer. Still good for me. I'll also be buying some of that insulating material to put under the manifold.

anyway, I did not find what we were looking for here... but I did find it on mbworld.org. Carl, you calling/e-mailing or me... ;)

From 12-10-2002:

[Jeff] Although I made the spacers shown above the company below is willing to make the spacers for Mercedes as shown below.
Jeff Short

Jeff,
Although we do not currently offer any spacers for Mercedes, we are always open to new insulator applications. We generally request 20 firm commitments prior to the design, prototyping, and production of a new performance part, although we sometimes make exceptions. Pricing for a set, including intake manifold and throttle body insulators along with necessary hardware such as lengthened studs, etc. would be in the $100
range.

Please assess the interest for your group, and let us know.

Best regards,
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering
www.outlawengineering.com

98c43amg
06-16-2005, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
what is a phenloic spacers, and what does it do? And what do you get by having this guy make them? Read the speedybenz postings on this page (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7780&page=2&pp=50&highlight=phenolic) for detail.

98c43amg
06-16-2005, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by 98c43amg
Jeff, if you get a chance, so what's the manufacturer of the dual chamber muffler you're using? I'll research the rest I asked about. Jeff, nevermind ... Magnaflow ;)

Under Pressure
06-16-2005, 08:38 PM
Look, you C36 people can do this as well...

http://www.2phast.com/C36/intake4.jpg

Click link and scroll down to find out how...

http://www.2phast.com/C36/c36.htm

This is from former benzsporter "2phast" (is he still around?)

Denlasoul
06-16-2005, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Under Pressure
This is from former benzsporter "2phast" (is he still around?)
Yes he is....he drops in every now and then.

coolcarlskic43
06-18-2005, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by 98c43amg
Jeff, nevermind ... Magnaflow ;) Steve I have a magnaflow muffler here from BMS performance .I had it on the car for a few months but it's too loud like the Eisannmann exhaust.I didnt like it so I put back on the stck AMG muffler and I have been trying to sell this thing but there are too many cheap guys on this club202 forum.the thing is practically brandnew with a magnaflow stainless steel CLK like tip.