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View Full Version : Suggestion: have a forum for discussing technical problems



kameraguy
04-29-2003, 10:08 AM
I did not see an appropriate forum to discuss w202 related problems. I think this would be good to have so we can help each other out when a problem arises.

For example, I am having transmission issues with my C36. I know of other members who have had similar. Where would I appropriately discuss this at the moment?

If there is a forum to discuss this already, please let m eknow. If not, I think it would be good to have a general forum (or specific) to discuss problems.

For example, we can have a "Troubleshoot your 202" section, or break down a troubleshooting section into catagories such as:

Engine Woes
Transmission Turmoil
Electrical Gremlins
Suspension Solutions

Etc....

Denlasoul
04-29-2003, 10:24 AM
I agree with Kam. It would help facilitate problem solving if one would know where to look for answers.

It should be only one category, that way readers will be aware of potential problems. Whereas if there are several categories, one might not look there until they actually have a problem. With one category you can at least see all the problems (in the thread titles).

kameraguy
04-29-2003, 10:35 AM
Great idea Denla, one section would be a great way to get a heads-up for other issues you may not be looking for.

J Irwan
04-29-2003, 11:09 PM
Kam,

not that I have the answer to your tranny problem, but how is the status on the last repair....?
Did it fix it..?

I just find it odd that you have the tranny problem.

I think I have read somewhere in www.mbworld.org or maybe www.benzworld.org that at least 2 member has 98 and 99 C43 experienced some "odd behavior" with their tranny shifting..

not sure if they all have same symptons as you... but might worth contacting the person...

We need to collect some fact, when the last time ATF fluid was changed, or none at all..?
You know the basic fact data like that.



A while back (5-6 yr) ago, when I have read on some forum that on some cars, you better off not changing the ATF fluid.
It is found to cause some odd behavior..(reported on some cases). Even my BMW mechanic says "if you never change the ATF fluids at 30,000 interval then you better off not to do @60,000 nor @70,000 nor any other miles mark. Basically if you haven't done it in regular interval i.e evcery 30,000 then just don't ever change it"

Anyway enough of the rambling..
I hope you find the solution/fix for the problem.
If you do please share..


Regardz,

J Irwan

Renn 208
04-30-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by J Irwan
Kam,

A while back (5-6 yr) ago, when I have read on some forum that on some cars, you better off not changing the ATF fluid.
It is found to cause some odd behavior..(reported on some cases). Even my BMW mechanic says "if you never change the ATF fluids at 30,000 interval then you better off not to do @60,000 nor @70,000 nor any other miles mark. Basically if you haven't done it in regular interval i.e evcery 30,000 then just don't ever change it"


Unfortunately, J, I think that my dad's 210 can serve as an example that never changing the ATF is a bad thing. Took it to the stealership religeously for it's entire service life until it went out of warranty (100K miles). At 114K...tranny went out and had to be replaced. I wasn't too happy about the $5K repair bill for that. Granted it's not a 202, but I have yet to find an example of a car that made it without ever changing the ATF.

kameraguy
05-01-2003, 08:00 AM
Renn, did they explain why your Dad's tranny went out?

As for mine, I purchased the car with 63K miles, and changed the Tranny fluid @ 70K. I guess my tranny was already on it's way out or it didn't matter what was done with the fluid....


I say this because Nokia's tranny went out less than 70K and i don't think he changed his fluid....


Wow, if we had a troubleshooting section, I bet this would be a great first thread! :p

Denlasoul
05-02-2003, 10:12 AM
In an article in Mercedes Enthusiast, a specialist mechanic suggested to change the ATF every 30000 miles. I got my car with 67000 and havent done one yet. :( I plan on doing one soon and maybe get it looked over.

J Irwan
05-02-2003, 10:40 AM
Den

what's you mileage now..

mine is 71,600
I was thinking of doing ATF when I hit 66,000 ..but I didn't get a chance to do it... :(


by the way any pic of your car..also what kind of tires are you running on..


Regardz,

J Irwan

kameraguy
05-02-2003, 11:13 AM
I can only imagine changing transmission fluid regularly is better than not. So with that said, if you haven't done so already, might be a good thing for preventative maintinence.

J Irwan
05-02-2003, 11:19 AM
yes,

I am planning on doing my ATF in the near future kam..

hey if turn out you have to replace the tranny unit (knock on wood, I really hope you don't have to)..

might as well looking into possibility fitting 6 speed Getrax gearbox for E36 3 series.

I think I remember rik (2phast) mentioned before that there is a guy who sell his C280 (renntech 3.6L conversion with getrag 5 speed gearbox from BMW)...

that would be awesome..

anyway, please let us know what's your finding on your tranny issue.

I'll let you know, if I ever came any info on this matter.


Regardz,


J Irwan

Denlasoul
05-02-2003, 01:39 PM
J:

I have about the same mileage as you, ~71500. I should have replaced the ATF when I first got the car at 66K. I dont really have the major symptoms as some people on the forums have, but when my car is cold shifting is kinda funny. No weird noises or anything, but shifts weird. Could be attributed to the fact I run my car lightly until the temps are at optimal levels. When they are up to temp runs just fine.

Here's a link to my car:1998 C43 (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=239689)

Not really the bset picture, but you kinda get an idea. The pic was compressed, so wheels look bent. :( I am running 225/40/18 on an 18x8 35 offset front wheel, and 255/35/18 on an 18x9 31 offset rear wheel. The tires are Kuhmo Ecsta 712's.

pnsji
05-02-2003, 02:30 PM
In the newer Mercedes with 5 speed electronic transmission, the procedure to replace the ATF is abit tricky.

There are two parts you need to drain:
1. Torque converter
2. Transmision oil pan

There is a specific procedure on how to change the fluid.
They have to be in certain temperature and certain order.
Make sure the mechanic who will do it for you, understand the procedure completely.

The fluid itself is about $9-$12 and you need 9 quarts.

Denlasoul, have you ever replaced your tranny fluid?

I replaced my tranny fluid about 6 months ago and I did not encounter any problems(knock on the wood).

J Irwan
05-02-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Denlasoul
J:

Not really the bset picture, but you kinda get an idea. The pic was compressed, so wheels look bent. :( I am running 225/40/18 on an 18x8 35 offset front wheel, and 255/35/18 on an 18x9 31 offset rear wheel. The tires are Kuhmo Ecsta 712's.


Dude you got the offset backward...

front should be ET31, and rear ET35 (genuine AMG offset :) )


Also when you change the ATF , I think the filter need to replace as well.
I don't remember what's the part number on those.


Regardz,

J Irwan

Denlasoul
05-02-2003, 03:18 PM
J:

You're right, I typed my offsets wrong. They are 31F and 35R. Damn dysl3xia! LOL.

Pnsji:

No I havent. I plan on doing it real soon. I hardly drive my car now that I am at home most of the time.

I also heard that the filter needs to be replaced, actually every time you do the ATF.

I'll search around for a tranny fluid how-to, or talk to my local MB specialist.

Rregards,
DLS

pnsji
05-02-2003, 08:23 PM
When you unscrew the transmision oil pan, you will see the filter. Just pull it downward and voila.
One more thing is the gasket. You need to change it as well.

Denlasoul
05-07-2003, 11:45 AM
Hey all:

I was looking around on the other forums, and stumbled on this thread and thought it was very interesting. I'll probably test this out on my car too.

click here: C220 tranny problem (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37982)

and here:Tranny problem 2 (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38657)

Maybe this could also apply to our cars as well.

DLS

kameraguy
05-07-2003, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the links DLS. Not sure if that would relate to my problems, but i am very curious to see the outcome to those tranny issues.

As for what you experience DLS, I also have the same "issue" in the morning, but i'm not sure if it's a problem per-se, as i found it is almost always the case my tranny holds onto first gear and shifts abruptly to 2nd when cold. But after a few minutes of driving, the tranny starts shifting fine.

This is something I experienced from day one of ownership. However the shifting problems i'm having now are different.

I recall other bnzsporters responding to having the same "slow" or "abrupt" shifting issues in the morning or when the tranny is cold. So not sure if that helps you. I hope it's not a bad or constant issue as you drive your car through the day though.

maxboxa
05-07-2003, 01:42 PM
i was told that changing the ATF at longer intervals is not the problem. it's FLUSHING the tranny that causes issues. apparently, flushing it loosens crud stuck in nooks and crannies and doesn't always get these bits out. now you just have chunks floating around in there looking for trouble.
i'm not a mechanic, so i can't say for sure how true this is, but i've heard it from more than a few people.

Denlasoul
05-08-2003, 04:03 PM
I just noticed....SWEEEEEET! Got a repairs forum.

edit: yeah, thanks mods!

kameraguy
05-08-2003, 04:31 PM
Two things:

1) COOL, thanks to the 202 mod gods for listening in making this forum!

2) no update on my car yet...i'm getting nervous.... :(

nokia8860
05-08-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by kameraguy


2) no update on my car yet...i'm getting nervous.... :(


oh i forgot to tell you. i was at the shop today. had an idea for a monster machine, needed a car and well your car was just right there and the plasma cutter was in my hand so.....

J Irwan
05-08-2003, 09:42 PM
Kam,

This might just be the solution for your tranny problem ..


http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5174

Check this out..


Regardz,

J Irwan

nokia8860
05-08-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by J Irwan
Kam,

This might just be the solution for your tranny problem ..


http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5174

Check this out..


Regardz,

J Irwan

sir the post you are linking too is also posted on this site as well :p

JRE320
05-09-2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by nokia8860
oh i forgot to tell you. i was at the shop today. had an idea for a monster machine, needed a car and well your car was just right there and the plasma cutter was in my hand so.....

You've been watching monster machine too..... :D :D
How you doin mang? Not seen you for a while.. ;)

kameraguy
05-09-2003, 08:42 AM
Three things:

1) Joey...HAHAHAHAHA...NOT FUNNY!!!!!! :p

2) Thanks for the link J, it does sound similar to what's happenning to my car. Well, I would be interested to see how my mechanic fixes my issue, and then compare notes. So i don't wanna bring it up to him at this time. Maybe my issue is different, then we will have more information on what it took to fix the tranny gremlins. Thank you for the link!

3) Jun, Hi! Sorry yet again. I have not been able to see you and finally pick up the trunk lid as almost all my free time has been devoted to getting my car sorted out. Been to Burlingame a record of five times within a seven day period!! :(

JRE320
05-14-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by kameraguy
Three things:

1) Joey...HAHAHAHAHA...NOT FUNNY!!!!!! :p


3) Jun, Hi! Sorry yet again. I have not been able to see you and finally pick up the trunk lid as almost all my free time has been devoted to getting my car sorted out. Been to Burlingame a record of five times within a seven day period!! :(

1.) He's a bad boy.... trying to put your car in monster garage... :D ;)

2.) No problem. As I said just le me know when your ready. ;)
Any update on your car yet?

kameraguy
05-14-2003, 09:36 AM
Thanks for being patient Jun :)

Well, no update on my car yet. It is still at the shop. Although I don't look forward to the final cost, I DO miss my car!!!

However, it's been a less painfull experience because Zim let me borrow his 300E for the time being. Man, after spending a couple of weeks behind a w124, I have grown an appreciation for the chassis. Solid!

Well, hopefully by the end of the week i'll have it back. Should have been today, but no word yet from Topline......

Denlasoul
05-21-2003, 11:35 AM
Kam:

Any word yet?

kameraguy
05-21-2003, 11:39 AM
Thanks for following upwith me DLS. Actually i called my mechanic yesterday and he said my warranty company delayed approval of the repairs. So technically they finally got to look at the problem yesterday.

What they found is something I cannot remmeber exactly, but it had to do with the automatic clutch or flywheel?! Something along the lines of a doo-hickey responsible for the release and engagement of gears. It sounded logical, and apparently mine was bad....although at this time I do not know if it is due to "normal" wear and tear or just bad luck.

I hope to have more info, if not my car back, by Friday :) So I'll definitely clarify this with exact detail when available.

Denlasoul
05-21-2003, 11:59 AM
Kam:

Sounds cool. Hopefully you will get your car back soon without major reconstruction.

Hang in there. :)

kameraguy
05-23-2003, 03:06 PM
Ok guys, so it looks like my car is ready. i will be picking it up tonight and hopefully the 60 mile trip home will be uneventful....meaning smooth sailing and no tranny issues whatsoever! (corss my fingers and knock on wood).

Will update ya'll when I get home :)

714guy
05-23-2003, 03:12 PM
good luck

J Irwan
05-23-2003, 03:15 PM
good luck
and tell us the story afterward..


Regardz,

J Irwan

kameraguy
05-23-2003, 09:52 PM
Well, got my car back and all i can say is DAMN!!! And I mean this in two ways:

1) DAMN!!! I'm $2400 poorer!!! Well, temporarily as I wait to be re-imbursed by my extended warranty company.

2) DAMN!!! My car feels SO much better...meaning it feels even better than even when I first got it!!

I will have to read my invoice very carefully, but in the meantime the culprit was due to a damaged K03 package in the tranny. Either you already know what this or you don't. I fall into the latter category. But basically this was a bunch of gears that were f'ed up and needed dire replacement. Took 20 hrs to fix!!!

I'll have to clarify more, but i'm so tired at the moment and i'm still at work!!! But once I get some shut-eye, i'll be more able to relay the details of the problem gears.

But in general, the car is definitely fixed. And as I stated, my car feels freaking great. I was actually suprised at the increase of power to the ground. Before i could barely chirp my tires at a stand-still...but now it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Tranny feels much smoother too. Maybe this is just me missing my car, but I do feel a positive difference overall.

Mid-gear acceleration is much snappier too.

So I suspect my car was already having issues prior to my purchase.

As far as if this was due to mileage, or pre-mature defect, I do not know.

But so far, so GOOD!

I'll have to drive it more this weekend. I actually cannot wait. It's like I have a whole new car.

It certainly feels that way coming from the 300E i've been borrowing.

When I first drove away in my car, I practically spun out by accident because the 300E's throttle was so stiff and non-responsive compared to the C36....I think everyone at the shop was like 'ahhh, so that's why his car was messed up...he drives it like a maniac!!" LOL!!

Well, thanks for your support guys. I will post more details as i get the chance this weekend :)

pnsji
05-23-2003, 10:20 PM
It's nice that your car is running nicely now.
Can you share the details on which parts are fixed and the labor?

JRE320
05-23-2003, 11:21 PM
Good to hear that you got your car back. Yeah man tell us later what they fixed and what shop did it. ;)

kameraguy
05-27-2003, 03:08 PM
Ok guys. Sorry for the delay. I have been driving my car extensively this weekend and so far so good.

To clarify the repair job, my invoice states the item foud to be at fault was a K3 clutch. The actual part(s) was less than $80. But it took a LOT of labour to fix. This, on top of the fluid change, and other related wear-and-tear parts such as gaskets amounted to less than $400 in parts. But my labour was $1900!

I will feel 100% relieved once I get re-imbursed from my warranty company. But in the meantime I am like 99% happy. My car is definitely running great (knock on wood). As I stated before, i think it has never run this good. So maybe this was already on it's way out when i purchased the car.

When I first bought the car, it ran fine, so I do not think this was a problem per se. Maybe it's just cummulative wear and tear after all the miles. Back then the car shifted fine.

Now that my k3 clutch has went out, and been replaced, my car feels snappier and more responsive.

As a related note, my car also required the shifter bushing as well as the flex discs to be replaced, as they were worn out.

All together, I can definitely feel the diff. The shifter is nice and tight (no play when shifting gears), and the engagement is solid. The shifting performance has drmatically improved, and it seems some of the vibration I thought was normal, is now gone.

So, I lucked out I had an extended warranty which covered this repair. And i'm glad I got it repaired.

btw- i got my repair done at Topline automotive in Burlingame. It's a 60+ mile drive ONE WAY for me, but so far i've been pleased with their work. Zim has been great working with me, and has some nice loaners if needed.

Denlasoul
05-27-2003, 08:37 PM
Awesome Kam! Glad to hear things went well, even better when you get reimbursed. :)

Can a shop just take a look at someone's car and come up with that diagnosis, or are there only symptoms and they gotta rip it apart to find out? This thread go me all paranoid ;)

DLS

kameraguy
05-28-2003, 07:42 AM
Thanks DLS!

To be honest, the only reliable data came from taking the tranny apart. For my specific problem, it wasn't severe enough to reveal it's exact nature. So prior to tearing apart my tranny, we had to do the "shot-gun" troubleshooting approach. First we replaced the shifter bearing, then the flex discs. When those repairs did not fix the issue, we then suspected the wiring harness....but once again, it was a guess. It didn't help that the tranny did not generate any fault codes relevant to the issue...but unfortunately I don't think it would anyways for this type of problem.

So after a week of unsuccessful repairs, I just cringed and gave them my CC to do whatever to fix the issue. So after tearing apart the tranny, my mechanic was able to finally find out the exact cause.

So unfortunately it may require such efforts if you are having similar problems.

Are you having the same symptoms?

Brabus
05-28-2003, 09:04 AM
I saw the car in the flesh yesterday!! Besides some missing cables, it looks like it runs great!! :) heheh

kameraguy
05-28-2003, 11:10 AM
LOL!!! yeah yeah yeah, so i was/still am missing a cable....how important can it be??? My car is still working great...so my ignorance is probably the best thing i've got going with that issue.

Shoot, i wonder what the heck is supposed to connect to the second (rear) connection to the c36 cross-over pipe?? Anyone know?

A second Air sensor? mine is like SO missing! :eek:

It was like that since getting it from the body shop, so i know it wasn't related to this repair.

714guy
05-28-2003, 04:58 PM
Kameraguy

Glad to hear that you car is running better than b4, any better you didn't have to pay for it.

Denlasoul
05-28-2003, 09:23 PM
Kam:

No problems yet. Just the funny shifting first thing in the morning. I just want to be able to identify a problem liek this before its too late. :)

kameraguy
05-29-2003, 08:45 AM
Thanks 714!

DLS, i'll see if I still have the slow shifting in the mornings after the repair. Maybe it's not there....unfortunately I haven't paid attention yet, but i'll let you know tommorow.

For me, i know my car tends to hold on to first gear longer for a few minutes after the first start in the morning. Is this the same thing you experience?

pnsji
05-29-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by kameraguy
For me, i know my car tends to hold on to first gear longer for a few minutes after the first start in the morning. Is this the same thing you experience?

This is normal. Please read your owner's manual.
It is explained over there.

nokia8860
05-29-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by pnsji
This is normal. Please read your owner's manual.
It is explained over there.

exactly.

JRE320
05-29-2003, 11:48 AM
Damn!!!! $1900 for labor alone...... How many days it took for Topline to finish your car? Did Zim give you a discount? Now I'm getting scared to bring my car to Topline.. :( :eek: :Paranoid:

kameraguy
05-29-2003, 12:25 PM
No discount AFAIK. Funny thing is after benzsport went down, no more 10% benzsport discounts :(

As far as the owners manual, anyone care to state a particluar page #? I don;t recall seeing this.

JRE320
05-29-2003, 01:41 PM
When you pay your bill is Zim around to look at the invoice?
I don't seem to get it... maybe he's thinking about your warranty and not all of it being out of your own pocket.... :( :confused: :confused:

Denlasoul
05-29-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by nokia8860
exactly.

I remember something along the line of the car is waiting until its at optimal running temps. It's just weird to feel it when you are still sleepy in the morning. Just doesnt feel right.

nokia8860
05-29-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Denlasoul
I remember something along the line of the car is waiting until its at optimal running temps. It's just weird to feel it when you are still sleepy in the morning. Just doesnt feel right.

i know what you mean. i use to short shift in the morning. never use to let it over 3k till the oil got up to temps. But being in an auto im left to it doing the shifting.

kameraguy
05-30-2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by JRE320
Damn!!!! $1900 for labor alone...... How many days it took for Topline to finish your car? Did Zim give you a discount? Now I'm getting scared to bring my car to Topline.. :( :eek: :Paranoid:

I'm not saying I don't agree with the labor rate. The car is fixed as far as i can tell and i'd rather put my money with someone who's more of a real person than a dealer. No doubt if I have other issues with my tranny I know Zim will help me.

As far as how it compares to the dealer, I don't know what their rates are. But the repair was a very long one, so that's why it cost so much.

Denlasoul
05-30-2003, 10:59 PM
Most "indy" shops have equal or lesser labor rates than most dealerships. You figure that they need to attract business from the dealer and this is one of the ways to do it. It also depends on the nature of the problem. Seems like Kam's problem was something not 100% certain and alot of work was put into it.

Either way, your car is fixed and now you have some technical advice for the rest of us. Are you going to be reimbursed, Kam?

kameraguy
08-04-2003, 10:25 AM
Sorry for leaving this thread hanging. But since threepointsix on bnzsport is having similar issues, i remembered thsi therad and read the last replies.

DLS, it took about a month, but I finally got re-imbursed. My deductable was a paltry $100, so i was very pleased.

As of now, my car has been running very well, knock on wood, dear Lord please show me love and don't let anything else fail on my car because I have like 8k left on my extended warranty and if something goes bad on my car after the warranty i'll be in deep crap...whew...that's like my new rant when I talk about problems with my car.

I have to say that after the first two months of having my car back, the tranny seems to have lost the "snap" it had when I first received it back from the repair. Not sure if this is normal and to be expected, but it is noticeable. I'm not having any mis-shift problems as before, but I might want to have my mechanic check it out to make sure. He recommended a follow-up after 1k anyway, so i'll let you alll know when I get an update.