EVOsport UD Pulleys for $310 = cheap HP for our W202

[C280Sportster]

Also, we need 3 more people to do a group buy on EVOsport underdrive pulleys.

These pulleys will provide about 10 hp on our engines for around $310 bucks (plus shipping). That's cheap power in mercedes land. You must have a V6 or V8 engine.

You won't find a less expensive way to gain HP from your W202. These pulleys underdrive our accessories and "free up" extra power. The real world gains are about 13 in first gear, 9 in second. Which is great for 0-60 times, etc (What most of us want). From what I've read the people using these pulleys have not notice anything different about there cars other then more "pick up". That is probably the case because MB builds everything "overkill".

Read this thread for more info and add your name to the list to buy, you will never find a better deal than this, so jump on board!

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=830497#post830497


Go here for more pulley info:

http://evosport.com/product/perf/perf_mercedes.html#evo_pulleys

[Tump43]

Add my name to the group buy list! I definately want a set of Evo sport underdrive pullies.

Marc
mmclaw@optonline.net

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by Tump43
Add my name to the group buy list! I definately want a set of Evo sport underdrive pullies.

Marc
mmclaw@optonline.net

You are on the list already!

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=830878#post830878

1. yxc145
2. aolhoward
3. clkvegas
4. mercguy
5. c280sportster
6. E320se
7. lionhead
8. Tump43
9. Jnolte

Only one more to go guys!

After the pulleys, I think I'm going to look for a lighter crank pulley, then dual intake with heat protection, then free flow cats/muffler, then maybe an electric fan.

Speedy, do you have UD pulleys?


Come on people, hook up your W202 !

[c43buck]

count me in too for the pulley kit

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by c43buck
count me in too for the pulley kit

If you can, can you go to MBworld.org and sign up.

I'm sure everyone will love you for doing it, being that you are number 10!

[josh k]

FYI, those HP gain were taken from the CLK55 (what the pulleys were designed on). The gains for other engines (such as the 4.3 V8 and the 3.2 V6) will most likely be smaller as they produce less power than the 5.5 to begin with.

Not bashing the product, just making sure you have all the info ;0)

[mayagman]

no application for the 2.8 I6? :[

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by josh k
FYI, those HP gain were taken from the CLK55 (what the pulleys were designed on). The gains for other engines (such as the 4.3 V8 and the 3.2 V6) will most likely be smaller as they produce less power than the 5.5 to begin with.

Not bashing the product, just making sure you have all the info ;0)

Well, the old ad used to say 13 hp in first gear and 9 in second on the 320 motor.

I'm searching their website now...seems the info has been removed, hmmm.

Here is what they say for the old BMW M3:

Kit includes water pump, power steering, alternator pulleys and belt. The T-6061 aluminum, hard anodized pulleys account for a 10- to 20-percent decrease in accessories speeds, reducing the load on the engine. The pulleys were good for 10.7 wheel hp at 6960 rpm and 8.1 lb-ft of torque at 5550 rpm and 6960 rpm on the 1995 M3.

The old M3 had a 3l motor that produced 240 hp and 225 ft-lbs...

Those numbers are in the ball park for similar size motor, engine size may not matter that much. I bet by %, a small engine would see a larger percentage gain than a larger engine. Which is good.

Overall these pulleys still seem like a great buy, now I need to find out if the "powerchip"

http://evosport.com/product/perf/perf_mercedes.html#software


is all that, we are talking 15 HP for $400 I think...

[delisi2322]

so if i have got a 95 c36 i cant be in this group buy rightsince mine is an inline 6 right?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by C280Sportster
..............


Those numbers are in the ball park for similar size motor, engine size may not matter that much. I bet by %, a small engine would see a larger percentage gain than a larger engine. Which is good.

..................






I would think the bigger engine has more gain..
it's all about the percentage gain..



5.5L NA engine could achieved extra 20hp easily compare to 2.8L NA engine... ;)



And in regards to Powerchip I had powerchip in my car for 3.5 years now and it works great. I am happy with it.


Regardz,

[speedybenz]

Thanks for the info, however I have the UD pullies on my C43.

As for the Light Crank Pulley, I purchased it from Kleemann and it was made by Unothodox.

I don't have any CNC files for the pulley so you are going to be on your own on that one.

But it is a good idea. You might also look at an electric water pump. I is supposed to be worth about 10 Hp

Jeff

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by J Irwan
I would think the bigger engine has more gain..
it's all about the percentage gain..



5.5L NA engine could achieved extra 20hp easily compare to 2.8L NA engine... ;)



And in regards to Powerchip I had powerchip in my car for 3.5 years now and it works great. I am happy with it.


Regardz,

Someone talked to mike at evosport and he stated that all cars get the same boost with the UD pulleys (which makes sense). About 12 HP at the wheels in first gear.

Think about it, our water pumps, alt., and AC compressors all drag the about the same (MB cars more or less use the same parts)...Now, if a 5.5l would see a larger boost, great (why, who knows), but I'm happy with the advertised gain.

% wise smaller engines see a larger gain. 12 HP on my car is great, 12 (or 20) hp on E55 is good, so all those people with 280/320 motors should be in on this deal.

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by speedybenz
Thanks for the info, however I have the UD pullies on my C43.

As for the Light Crank Pulley, I purchased it from Kleemann and it was made by Unothodox.

I don't have any CNC files for the pulley so you are going to be on your own on that one.

But it is a good idea. You might also look at an electric water pump. I is supposed to be worth about 10 Hp

Jeff

Jeff,

Do you have a powerchip? Do you recommend one, it seems to be the only chip (affordable too) that works (gives gains) with our NA engines.

I'm looking for a good electric fan setup, the only thing I've read about were the flex fans, and I don't want to go that route. If you have any suggestions, I'm listening!

There has to be something out there, were there any other Mercedes models that had electric fans?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by C280Sportster
Someone talked to mike at evosport and he stated that all cars get the same boost with the UD pulleys (which makes sense). About 12 HP at the wheels in first gear.

Think about it, our water pumps, alt., and AC compressors all drag the about the same (MB cars more or less use the same parts)...Now, if a 5.5l would see a larger boost, great (why, who knows), but I'm happy with the advertised gain.

% wise smaller engines see a larger gain. 12 HP on my car is great, 12 (or 20) hp on E55 is good, so all those people with 280/320 motors should be in on this deal.


If I were you I calld Evosport to confirm and to be sure, after all you spent your $$$ for this.

I am just trying to help you and the people on this forum to get th efact straight. In my opinion it is very hard to believe the gain on the much smaller engine would be the same.

In this case CLK55 gain vs C43 gain vs C320/E320 gain vs C280.,

I could see that the CLK55 and C43 might have similar gain number since the engine and accessories configuration are similar and that it is very possible these 2 engines have very similar parasitic lost.

But I doubt with C280 and C320/E320 it will yield similar hp to those bigger engine.... just my $0.02


Don't get me wrong I am not trying to diss this Evosport pulley or sabotage this GB but I am merely trying to get the information straight for other member who also interested in getting this product.




Regardz,

[Denlasoul]

For the E46 BMW, I believe the gains were 4hp to the wheels.

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by J Irwan
If I were you I calld Evosport to confirm and to be sure, after all you spent your $$$ for this.

I am just trying to help you and the people on this forum to get th efact straight. In my opinion it is very hard to believe the gain on the much smaller engine would be the same.

In this case CLK55 gain vs C43 gain vs C320/E320 gain vs C280.,

I could see that the CLK55 and C43 might have similar gain number since the engine and accessories configuration are similar and that it is very possible these 2 engines have very similar parasitic lost.

But I doubt with C280 and C320/E320 it will yield similar hp to those bigger engine.... just my $0.02


Don't get me wrong I am not trying to diss this Evosport pulley or sabotage this GB but I am merely trying to get the information straight for other member who also interested in getting this product.


Regardz,

Well, it makes sense to check, with all the bogus info out there on performance products.

One way to look at it is, let us say that the old E55 has the same 1) alternator 2) Water pump 3) powersteer pump as my C280, I would assume (and this is just my assumption) that these parts put the same drag on a motor.

Now if the E55 has upgraded parts it might be different. I would think a larger motor would have larger water pump (but who knows, the change in less drag might be the same percent, hence the same gain as a smaller motor).

Someone from here called and Evosport said about 12 HP at the wheel (ad says 13 in first gear). The BMW quote says 10.4 or so at the wheels also. So all the numbers are coming within the same range.

Remember this isn't creating more HP across the board, you only gain like; 12 in first gear, 8 in second, etc. I guess once the engine and tranny's gear ratio gets up there the engine becomes more efficient and thus there is less drag by the accessories.

Great for 0-60 times for us with 280/320 motors which is all I expect. I'm researching powerchip next.

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by C280Sportster
The BMW quote says 10.4 or so at the wheels also. So all the numbers are coming within the same range.

Eurotuer tested these pulleys on a 2.5L I6 E46, and got a net gain of 4.2hp and 3.8tq at the wheels. Not bad, but a far stretch from 10. The magazine did mention seeing 10hp gain in the E36 BMW's, but I am not sure if it was given info, or tested info.

Either way, decent gains. A friend of mine said there isnt much of a difference in his C43, but the car revs faster. Take it FWIW.

I'd suggest dynos of before and aft to really show gains. :)

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
Eurotuer tested these pulleys on a 2.5L I6 E46, and got a net gain of 4.2hp and 3.8tq at the wheels. Not bad, but a far stretch from 10. The magazine did mention seeing 10hp gain in the E36 BMW's, but I am not sure if it was given info, or tested info.

Either way, decent gains. A friend of mine said there isnt much of a difference in his C43, but the car revs faster. Take it FWIW.

I'd suggest dynos of before and aft to really show gains. :)

In a way what you just said is may be real good news...

Here is the quote from Evosport's site:

"Kit includes water pump, power steering, alternator pulleys and belt. The T-6061 aluminum, hard anodized pulleys account for a 10- to 20-percent decrease in accessories speeds, reducing the load on the engine. The pulleys were good for 10.7 wheel hp at 6960 rpm and 8.1 lb-ft of torque at 5550 rpm and 6960 rpm on the 1995 M3."

The 1995 M3 is the old E36 model. So those number sfall inline with yours. Maybe, BMW decided to change the pulleys in the E46 to free up some HP.

Why is this good news, well, Mercedes is well known for NOT trying to get max HP from its engines and Mercedes is also known for building everything "overkill" (big alterators, etc). So, I'm expecting at least 10 HP in first, but if I only get 5-6 I'll be happy. Should make a difference in my underpowered C280 ;)


Plus a powerchip, I'll have a net gain of 15-25 HP. Plus still looking for other mods (electric fan).

[Denlasoul]

Have you considered dropping weight in your car?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by C280Sportster
In a way what you just said is may be real good news...

Here is the quote from Evosport's site:

"Kit includes water pump, power steering, alternator pulleys and belt. The T-6061 aluminum, hard anodized pulleys account for a 10- to 20-percent decrease in accessories speeds, reducing the load on the engine. The pulleys were good for 10.7 wheel hp at 6960 rpm and 8.1 lb-ft of torque at 5550 rpm and 6960 rpm on the 1995 M3."

The 1995 M3 is the old E36 model. So those number sfall inline with yours. Maybe, BMW decided to change the pulleys in the E46 to free up some HP.

Why is this good news, well, Mercedes is well known for NOT trying to get max HP from its engines and Mercedes is also known for building everything "overkill" (big alterators, etc). So, I'm expecting at least 10 HP in first, but if I only get 5-6 I'll be happy. Should make a difference in my underpowered C280 ;)


Plus a powerchip, I'll have a net gain of 15-25 HP. Plus still looking for other mods (electric fan).




Compare the Inline 6 of BMW engine and Mercedes may not be the best guess oh how many hp it will free-up by changing the pulley.


The Evosport statement merely to convinced that there are indeed that there is additional hp gain (even it is a small gain) by using their UDP kit.


The nature of E36 M3 and your C280 is way totally different.
(the M3 has much more potential than C280 engine to begin with)

And keep in mind that the Mercedes normally have the bigger alternator is because most if not/all Mercedes (late model MB) are automatic.
Hence it need more juice for the automatric transmission and its electronics. Plus the alternator doesn't indicate/ refer to the engine tuning potential. The reason alternator have certain rating is to support the car electronic equipments.

And we know that most E36 M3 have manual tranny and no electric seat.
And yet look at MB, most C class came standard with Electric seat, rear headrest, etc...etc.. (in short the MB came with a lot more electrical gadget, hence more electrical juice needed).



my point is that, you simply cannot compare apple and orange.. ;)

Bigger engine definitely have more reserve (hidden power) than smaller engine..


If you really care about improving the performance of your C280, I
d look into some items that Jeff did on his C280.
And for the most part you need to counter the weight.

Get as much as weight saving from Lighter wheel, lightter brake component (caliper,rotor), lighter exhaust, lighter battery.
I am sure Jeff could help you in that department... :D:D


Look at the example on these E36 M3 and E46 M3, they both have I-6 engine, but yet using UDP proven that there are differences in power gain ;).
So everything is not that simple since they are a lot part/component that relate to Pulley, one can only determine the gain by measure it on the dyno, not using a mere deduction reasoning.


just my $0.02


Plus in BMW world a lot of people(mostly) who bought the UDP they track the car often. And the don't care about adding additional accessories to the car electronics.

(so if you're thinking of getting additional stereo gears(i,e subwoofer, etc) on your car, I'd stay away from the UDP..)


Regardz,

[C280Sportster]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
For the E46 BMW, I believe the gains were 4hp to the wheels.

I found a powerchip article.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0402/article.html

Funny he talk's about one of the M3's.

"AutoSpeed: What's one of those sorts of cars for which it is impossible to get power from and which you don't offer a chip?"

"Wayne Besanko: (7 second pause) There's probably a handful of cars that are very difficult to obtain power from, but still small gains are possible. In particular, on part throttle, the most difficult cars to get power from are Porsche 993 RSCS, BMW M3 3 litre and probably Range Rover 3.9."

Sounds like the M3 is maxed out, pulleys, powerchip, they all can't get a lot more power out of them. No wonder M3 engine's blow up!



Off Topic: I've been checking out the powerchip - It sounds good, but I want to see a dyno.

[C280Sportster]

"If you really care about improving the performance of your C280, I
d look into some items that Jeff did on his C280.
And for the most part you need to counter the weight."


I'm looking into that also!

My wheels (stock) only weigh 36 pounds.

I am looking at what Jeff did, I think I can shave 100 pounds:

Full size spare (36)
Lose my Resinators (20x2? what will it sound like?)
Lighter Battery (10?)

I'd love lighter brake parts, and to lose unsprung weight, right, how much $$$ ?

Oh and what's the Optima battery I keep hearing everyone talk about?

[J Irwan]

Keep in mind what Wayne referring to is to the extend of increasing hp purely from software without doing any hardware upgrade.


for E46 M3 if you doing hardware upgarde such as exhaust, intake, chips, and possible can I have read on the forum that 370hp is achievable..


Actually also another companies goes to the extreme with 400hp E46 M3 engine NA. The company name is DelageSport.
They offer intake, special programming, and cam.

Hopefully Powerchip working out for you.



And if you have and I-6 C280, you might want to do some research on Mosselman Turbo. Supposedly they provide some 90'shp/90'slb-ft on their standard boost.



Regardz,

[C280Sportster]

They are like BLACK GOLD!

Can't wait to install them, but I don't know how. There isn't a lot of room in there (because of the fan).

Any suggestions?

[nwptbnzc43]

I had mine installed today from EVOsport. I definately feel it pull harder in the low end range. :D

[Tump43]

Just put the Evo-Sport light-weight under-drive pulley set on my car. It took the mechanic quite some time. He also had to buy three tools: a set of flat pulley wrenches; a pully puller; and a pully installer. (He had just set up the shop that I helped him to buy). Other than waiting for the tools it was not too hard, water pump pulley being the worst. (I also replaced the C43 belt tensioner at the same time -- had to pay the local Stealership $230 total for the part -- I could have got it for $50 to $70 less if I had time to phone around and wait for UPS delivery but, we were in the engine already, so what the hell.

Engine is definately more responsive; it acclerates to high rpm with much less effort and noise. I have to wait for the ecu to adapt to the change and take it on some "test" runs (no time to do so tonight). The mechanic tells me the tranny will adapt favorably to the change and, because of the higher rpm's, will shift more aggressively.

Havn't done the chip yet. Not sure if it's really worth it -- $840 for Powerchip and this mod has mixed reviews. I love hear from those who have done this mod and love it.

Thanks,

[speedybenz]

Marc,

With your exhaust and oher good engine mods I hink you will not see any gain from the Powerchip, but they do offer a 1 or 2 week mone back garantee which I used on my C43 to have it set back to stock.

But your car could behave differently. The part I did not like was that when I did the Nology Dyno runs they showed no difference in HP. Acceration runs from 20mph to 120mph again showed no time decrease. When I questioned PC about this they where fairly defencive about the fact I was tying to measure the Hp and that more HP was not their main objective, which it turns out they are more concerned about driveability.

I told them my driveability was great before the PC and that I wanted the advertized HP gains. Travis at PC said that most likely would not happen. So out came the chip.

Also Marc with your changes you want to go back to the STD fuel setting as the timing advance curve is more advanced than the 93RON setting. You should see better responce now.

Jeff

Also I am still looking for a stock set of 2ndary convertors.

[CKlasse]

Jeff,

Why do you need rear cats, if I may ask? We encountered them once a while.. :)

[Tump43]

Thanks for the info Jeff!! I will save my money to buy light wheels (SSR's or HRE's) and set of lighter calipers and rotors (Brakeman, Stoptech or Brembo).

I finally got to test out my evosport pullies. Amazing things. At lower speeds the improvement is subtle, but punch the gas at 60, 70 or 80 and I was slammed back in the seat so hard and hit triple digit speeds so fast that the cars speeding at normal rates on the hightway appeared to be standing still. (I drove 100 miles to a wedding and a 100 miles back today) didn't hit speeds over 105 because I was travelling on roads traditionally patroled by over eager cops. The short bursts, however, were thrilling. The pullies gave me better gas millage as well.

After fixing the "loose" bolt securing the front shock to the driver's side lower control arm, my ride was quite comfortable over the myriad of bumps, pot holes & construction damage, and smooth as glass at all speeds on new pavement. Finally got the suspension set up right for me with the Bilstein Sport shocks, the Eibach Prokit lowering springs and the MRP polyurethane shock stops.

Once I tighen up the sway bars -- who knows?!

Jeff, can you make me a set of Delrin outer front sway bar bushings? Let me know how to pay you.

Marc

[waiyip]

I have a 96 c36 does it work on mines ?

[Tump43]

Yes it does. Evosport.com should have an application for your engine. Check them out.

[Denlasoul]

You guys should have waited. I just ordered mine for $259.

They may have some left.