air intake

[Andrew C280]

ok some one explain to me why mercedes has run the air intake right over the hot engine, cold air is better for the engine right ?

so is it possible to relocate the air intake to the other side of the engine using some sort of mercedes parts ie from a
V8 or something ?

[jnolte]

possible??? anything is possible...


but you can run tubing down to the foglights for a ram air effect, speedybenz has done this in his C43, also 2phast did this in his C36:

http://www.2phast.com/C36/c36.htm

[Andrew C280]

i like his idea but i think it would be even better with the intake on the other side not crossing over the engine and thus not heating the air as much. how would i go about crafting a new air intake system are there kits or do i have to work on my own.

[SLAMMED_C]

The only "cold air intake" ive ever seen is made by some rice company for the C280/36 if Im not mistaken.. the funny part is, its not even a cold air intake.. just replaces the airbox with a cone filter (but still located inside the engine bay... heat!!)

The only way to go is pure custom.. either fabricate something yourself with some 3" aluminum intake tubing or have a shop make one for you.
Maybe you could modify one half of an SL55 intake to be used on your C280, and run ducting to the fornt of the car to get cooler air.

Im making a cold air intake for my C230 Kompressor.. bought the K&N cone filter and an AEM bypass valve.. just need some 3" aluminum tubing now.
will post pics as I fabricate and of course of the final product.

[Andrew C280]

where can I buy this aluminum tubeing what about platic fiberglass or carbon fiber ?

[ricerokets4life]

im not sure about aluminum. any exhaust shop should be able to fabricate a stainless steel pipe though.

[Andrew C280]

nice now you have me thinking

[SLAMMED_C]

Any large performance shop should sell lenghts of Aluminum intake tubing.

I wouldnt go with plastic as it would look tacky under the hood.. but if it gets the job done....
and as for carbon fiber.. I only know of BMW's that has intake kits made of carbon fiber.. maybe find soemone to make intake tubing out of carbon fiber..
and I dont recommend using stainless steel exhaust tubing for an intake.. aluminum weighs consideranly less.. and looks much nicer. although it does need to be specialy welded.

[C280 JR]

my friend has a carbon fiber intake on his golf too, but i doubt it would work for your car


Elvir

[Andrew C280]

slammed C where can i get some aluminum in toronto i dont think i can find any in kitchener

[Rocky]

How do compensate for the 2 holes that the intake attaches too into the valve cover that I assume recirculates the air like an PCV valve?

[Andrew C280]

what are you talking about
???

[SLAMMED_C]

I had been talking to Performance impovements in scarborough, but they want $45 per 18" section of 3" intake pipe... I was hoping to find somewhere a bit cheaper than that.. so Im holding out till I do find someone else.


How do compensate for the 2 holes that the intake attaches too into the valve cover that I assume recirculates the air like an PCV valve?
Do you mean the diverter valve thats on the side of my airbox??

[MrSpace]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
I had been talking to Performance impovements in scarborough, but they want $45 per 18" section of 3" intake pipe... I was hoping to find somewhere a bit cheaper than that.. so Im holding out till I do find someone else.

let me see with my friend

he has a shop and can get metal at cost

Etienne

[Andrew C280]

I dont have a compressor so i dont thing i have that thing that your talking about

hey mr space dose your friend want to fab up something and send it to me

[MrSpace]

he can fab almost anything, he has all the machine shop equipment.

Etienne

[ricerokets4life]

isnt steel cheaper than aluminum? and isnt it more resistant to heat?

[alhacker]

u could use any material u want as long as it doesn't generate heat steel does affect performance, all the people i know are using plastic tubing covered by the heat resistant material... it doesn't look good but its better performance wise... the best place for the air filter in the bumper u doent have to remove the foglight u could put it next to brakes air duct (is from the other side not the side of the foglight...)

[Andrew C280]

mr.space how much are we talking to fab up something ????

[Rocky]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Do you mean the diverter valve thats on the side of my airbox??

R, I'm not sure if it's the same on the I4's but on the I6's, the intake that runs across the top of the engine has 2 holes underneath that recirculates the air in the head back into the air intake. If I remember right, it won't run if those holes are exposed. I also think in the actual air tube that runs on tops of the engine, near the bend closest to the TA, there is complicated valving in the actual tube. I don't think it's hallow all the way...i could be wrong though.

[Andrew C280]

yah rocky your right.

[Rocky]

Lets take a different approach. Instead of trying to re-route the tubing, why not try to lessen the heat within the engine compartment? I know those headers give off a load of heat. Turbo wrap and a heat shield on the headers might make a difference. Maybe you can turbo wrap the air intake pipe as well?

Maybe route a intake tube on the TA side to cool down the intake manifold?

[Andrew C280]

this turbo wrap is fire proof ?

[Paul]

Originally posted by Andrew C280
this turbo wrap is fire proof ?
fibreglass matting,or turbo wrap is fire proof.well,everything has a melting point...:rolleyes:

[Paul]

Originally posted by Paul
fibreglass matting,or turbo wrap is fire proof.well,everything has a melting point...:rolleyes:
sory,its more heat resistant than fire proof to be politicaly correct.

[Rocky]

Originally posted by Andrew C280
this turbo wrap is fire proof ?

I think it is. It looks and feels alot like burlap except thicker. Many brands.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=4782&prmenbr=361

http://www.jscspeed.com/universal/thermotec.htm

[ShollyC220]

It looks to me like 2 phast's idea is great. I'm going to try it. I've been trying to cook up a way to keep water out from the foglight area. I was thinking some grille mesh with a material behind it that will let in air, but not water. Some sort of cloth maybe? Any ideas guys? This post has me really excited about an intake mod.:D
-sholly

[SpEeDy230]

My opinion.....too much work for so little gain

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by ShollyC220
I was thinking some grille mesh with a material behind it that will let in air, but not water. Some sort of cloth maybe? Any ideas guys?

Kinda shoddy, but panty hose treated with water repellant might do the trick.

[jnolte]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
Kinda shoddy, but panty hose treated with water repellant might do the trick.

automatic koffe machine filters with water repellent lol

[202rules]

Originally posted by Rocky
Lets take a different approach. Instead of trying to re-route the tubing, why not try to lessen the heat within the engine compartment? I know those headers give off a load of heat. Turbo wrap and a heat shield on the headers might make a difference. Maybe you can turbo wrap the air intake pipe as well?

Maybe route a intake tube on the TA side to cool down the intake manifold?

I don't know how you can "lessen the heat" inside the engine compartment, coz the heat produced by the engine will be the same no matter what you do, if you start blocking stuff using heat shields and what not you might end up trapping the heat and not letting it dissipate the right way.

Since the concern here is about the air going into the engine, then I suggest you wrap that existing tube with whatever material that you're thinking off and only the tube coz that's what you care about.

Other than that, cooling the engine compartment is the way to reduce the overall heat inside.

[Rocky]

Originally posted by 202rules
I don't know how you can "lessen the heat" inside the engine compartment, coz the heat produced by the engine will be the same no matter what you do, if you start blocking stuff using heat shields and what not you might end up trapping the heat and not letting it dissipate the right way.

Since the concern here is about the air going into the engine, then I suggest you wrap that existing tube with whatever material that you're thinking off and only the tube coz that's what you care about.

Other than that, cooling the engine compartment is the way to reduce the overall heat inside.

The initial issue here is why MB put the intake on the opposite side of the intake manifold and run a pipe above the engine.

Turbo wrap on the headers keeps the heat from radiating from the headers and therefore into the engine bay. Especially in a C36, the car gets HOT underneath the hood.

[ShollyC220]

My buddy from MBworld.org gave me a different approach to this question. He suggested that I make a CAI by enlarging the exisiting intake hole near the grille. If the same thermo-tubing that 2phast used was run from the MAF directly to that hole, and the hole was enlarged, more (colder, fresher) air would be supplied to the intake manifold- This would give the same "ram-air" effect that 2phast achieved with his method. Granted this does not solve the problem of the tubing crossing over the block, but it will provide cooler air to that point, which can't hurt.
-sholly

[SLAMMED_C]

R, I'm not sure if it's the same on the I4's but on the I6's, the intake that runs across the top of the engine has 2 holes underneath that recirculates the air in the head back into the air intake. If I remember right, it won't run if those holes are exposed. I also think in the actual air tube that runs on tops of the engine, near the bend closest to the TA, there is complicated valving in the actual tube. I don't think it's hallow all the way...i could be wrong though.
Yeh, I know what you mean now.. Im not positive on the I-4's if there are any holes in the valve cover or not.. but I do know for sure that there are on the I-6's... easiest thing to do is run some pipes from the holes to the new intake pipe if someone were to go the route of completely moving the intake pipe to the other side of the engine. but I dont see the engine and under hood temps causing any problems.


Lets take a different approach. Instead of trying to re-route the tubing, why not try to lessen the heat within the engine compartment? I know those headers give off a load of heat. Turbo wrap and a heat shield on the headers might make a difference. Maybe you can turbo wrap the air intake pipe as well?
I dont think that is really the issue.. I dont think its completely necessary to start wrapping exhaust manifolds. I agree that reduced under hood temperatures may help out.. but the real thing is a cold air intake.. as long as the inlet for the intake/filter is away from the under hood air I dont see it affecting anything. If you put a filter behind the bumper and run pipe to the throttle body.. the under hood temps wont affect the cooler air coming from outside the car.. its travelling fast enough that it would be in the engine before it was heated up by the temp under the hood.
the real thing is getting air from outside the car.. which all mercedes do from factory anyway.

[Rocky]

CAI method, you'll have to worrie about the MAS as well since we all know the arguements about an aftermarket filter and the MAS. Didn't someone relocate there's closer the intake manifold? Or was that just on the I4?

[ricerokets4life]

Originally posted by ShollyC220
My buddy from MBworld.org gave me a different approach to this question. He suggested that I make a CAI by enlarging the exisiting intake hole near the grille. If the same thermo-tubing that 2phast used was run from the MAF directly to that hole, and the hole was enlarged, more (colder, fresher) air would be supplied to the intake manifold- This would give the same "ram-air" effect that 2phast achieved with his method. Granted this does not solve the problem of the tubing crossing over the block, but it will provide cooler air to that point, which can't hurt.
-sholly


how would you go about enlarging it? the opening is surrounded by the radiator and the headlight housings.

[Rocky]

Originally posted by ricerokets4life
how would you go about enlarging it? the opening is surrounded by the radiator and the headlight housings.

Remove the front passenger side foglight cover (fog lights from the guys with a C36). Remove box and run the CAI pipe down the hole and attach the filter where the hole from the foglight was. It's been done and someone has a site with instructions and pics.

[ricerokets4life]

no the way sholly was describing was expanding that hole where the factory air box extends to, not by the fog light area as described on that 2phast site.

[Rocky]

Originally posted by ricerokets4life
no the way sholly was describing was expanding that hole where the factory air box extends to, not by the fog light area as described on that 2phast site.

I think I know which hole your talking about. The one that sits behind the front grille right?

Weird, most people have a flap that covers that hole on the grille but I don't.

[ShollyC220]

Yes, that's the one- maybe use a dremel to widen the hole? Maybe even replace the end of the ducting? I'm not sure yet. I haven't given it a hard look. I'll post pics when I attempt this mod. -sholly

[ricerokets4life]

Originally posted by ShollyC220
Yes, that's the one- maybe use a dremel to widen the hole? Maybe even replace the end of the ducting? I'm not sure yet. I haven't given it a hard look. I'll post pics when I attempt this mod. -sholly

yeah thats the one. i took another look and there is almost no room to expand the hole. that plastic piece for the "ram air effect" is already very thin. the only place you could expand into is probably the radiator housing which is plastic. but i dunno if that will affect the radiator or not.

[heman]

i have thought about this in the past to replace the front part to a larger one off another car i had seen in the scrap yard with a bigger hole.
But once again same thing came to mind whether it would affect the radiator because air flow hits the radiator on directly i think this must be essential to obtain and maintain adequate cooling temps.
So i decided to give it a miss but i think the car i was looking at the intake bit out of was a peugot 605 or 405 one or the other, but if you find out more on it type it here im reading, anything for any extra bhp lol

[ricerokets4life]

ok i took some pictures.

as you can see, the ram-air slot is already up against the radiator, on the right, and the headlight housing, on the left. any ideas on how to bore it out?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/ramairslotrear9-4.jpg

a view of the slot from the front. notice the little flap at the bottom to direct air flow from the grill to the slot

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/ramairslottop9-4.jpg

factory air box removed... this is where the air box would go. possible cold air intake, as described by 2phast, would go down that little hole to the fog light location. i tried fitting 3" dryer hose piping down there but it would not fit without deforming the pipe and disrupting the cylindrical shape of the pipe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/stockairbox9-4.jpg

a zoomed in picture of the little "cubby" behind the factory fog light mounting location

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/foglightcubby9-4.jpg

i encountered something i didnt notice before while looking at the hood and the grill. there seems to be this square shaped plastic cover blocking air from passing through the upper left corner of the grill (if youre facing the front of the car).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/grillcoverfront9-4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/grillcoverback9-4.jpg

my question is, would it be ok to remove this? it would definitely help air flow to the intake.

[ShollyC220]

My grille doesn't have that blocked space...

[Rocky]

Originally posted by ShollyC220
My grille doesn't have that blocked space...
niether does mine..oem grille too.

[ricerokets4life]

oh well, im takin it off.

[alhacker]

just finished senario #1 from the air intake... i sourced a green flow cone air filter with an aluminum heat sheild and a thermo tube i connected the air filter directly to the maf sensor then took the pipe from bumper to the air filter.... i thought ill be loseing hp with this setup but actuly the car is breathing alot betteresp in mid range rpms... i used an electronic thermoiter to on both the stock one and my new setup the ne one is cooler by a couple of degrees.... pic will be posted soon

[SpEeDy230]

Originally posted by ricerokets4life
factory air box removed... this is where the air box would go. possible cold air intake, as described by 2phast, would go down that little hole to the fog light location. i tried fitting 3" dryer hose piping down there but it would not fit without deforming the pipe and disrupting the cylindrical shape of the pipe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/stockairbox9-4.jpg

a zoomed in picture of the little "cubby" behind the factory fog light mounting location

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/foglightcubby9-4.jpg



I had made an intake in there before. It worked really good. I sold It to Delisi. Only problem with it is that water may get on the filter when in rain.

[ricerokets4life]

yeah i want to pursue this CAI thing but i would have to dremel out a little more space to get the filter piping down there.

[SLAMMED_C]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/ricerokets0919/grillcoverfront9-4.jpg
I too had this part of my grille blocked off.. but I took my dremell to it and cut it out so its all open now.

Im still waiting on some intake tube to start fabricating my intake. I hope it wont be long now.

[htfan1]

Would it hurt/help to have an additional opening in the bottom of the stock air box (below the filter)?

I thought I read another thread where someone used the stock air box, drilled a 3" hole in the bottom and ran a 3" tube down below the box into the area around the fog light. This opened up the intake side of the box and brought in more cold air.

Would this help?

In addition, what about insulating the stock air box and tube leading to the MAF. Wouldn't this also help cool down the air temp?