View Full Version : Custom intake fabrication begins.. W202 M111
SLAMMED_C
10-17-2004, 02:01 PM
I have now got all the pieces I need to fabricate my custom intake, I will be replacing the stock airbox with a fully custom "cold air intake" with bypas valve and K&N cone filter. I will be using a piece of 4" diameter aluiminum intake tube to replace the stock airbox, and then go down to 3" intake tube to fabricate the rest of the intake down to behind the bumper where a cone filter will be now taking in air!
All the parts I will be using.. Im sure Ill add a couple more to this pile!!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_146_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_147_full.jpg
My stock intake airbox.. (goin bye bye soon!!)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_123_full.jpg
Ashkan's C280
10-17-2004, 04:34 PM
very very cool, let us know how the install goes, with more pics please, and if you could get dyno that would be even better, you rock
wicked...
Im doin the exact same to my 23K except where goin to replace the SC intake and pressure side castings as well...will post pics too!!;)
SLAMMED_C
10-17-2004, 07:30 PM
so you eliminating the SC diverter valve??
Im completley replacing my stock intake box but still retaining the SC diverter valve.
MrSpace
10-17-2004, 08:33 PM
you can put a Vortech bypass valve, the remove completly the electronic bypass valve.
that's what some did on their 230k engines.
Etienne
jaysonvaldez
10-17-2004, 08:44 PM
I heard when you change it to a Vortech bypass valve. The car starts off sluggish? I was going to do that but when I heard this I changed my mine.
Ashkan's C280
10-17-2004, 10:53 PM
someone needs to get all the info straight on this topic and then let me know, then do it on my car, i'll cash for all the parts and take you out to lunch or dinner or whatever, it'll be fun, seriously...
MrSpace
10-18-2004, 09:47 AM
I tried to reach many times James Wei with the Rieger SLK that made this mod.
He had a nice cone filter, a vortech bypass valve and for what I'Ve read, he did not have any problems with this setup.. But I'm unable to get a hold of him to ask more questions.
It was really neat, no box.. I would'Ve just used a CAI instead of the ram that he used.
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic27.jpg
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic28.jpg
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic29.jpg
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic30.jpg
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic31.jpg
http://speedoptions.com/features/cars/100/pic32.jpg
very nice car, he even has a bigger intercooler..
Etienne
jaysonvaldez
10-18-2004, 10:25 AM
Hey that was there car I was talking about that had a problem with the vortech blow off valve. I called James Wei at his shop. They told me that had the problem with that blow off valve. The start was boggey sometimes. They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that....
MrSpace
10-18-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by jaysonvaldez
Hey that was there car I was talking about that had a problem with the vortech blow off valve. I called James Wei at his shop. They told me that had the problem with that blow off valve. The start was boggey sometimes. They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that....
If you can get more info on this, I'm drooling on his setup.
Etienne
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
so you eliminating the SC diverter valve??
Im completley replacing my stock intake box but still retaining the SC diverter valve.
Yip will still retain the SC bypass valve...
I would like to keep the system the factory way,but improve flow.
Im considering using a filter for the bypass and one for the SC,
but will cross that road after i complete the SC intake an pressure side.
I see you will be using the triangular hole under the airbox for the intake to your gaurd??
I was considering using that for the new path for intercooler piping because the run down and back to the throttle is so tight and twisted!!.....but that means i cant get my filter into the gaurd where it would be best to be!!....
will post some pics next month:)
Originally posted by jaysonvaldez
Hey that was there car I was talking about that had a problem with the vortech blow off valve. I called James Wei at his shop. They told me that had the problem with that blow off valve. The start was boggey sometimes. They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that....
I may be totally wrong but does the SC bypass open when in cruise to bypass SC for economy???
when you close the throttle body what gives to stop sudden boost....the SC bypass or the magnetic clutch??.
If you removed the SC bypass and replaced it with a BOV...
what would happen at idle and at open road cruise when the super charger goes to bypass??(If it does go to bypass)
Also it looks like if you were to put on a BOV it would need to be as close as possible to the throttle body for less lag.
would be very good if these Q's could be answered,
I dont want to have to customise my custom intake now:) :) :)
thanks guys...
MrSpace
10-18-2004, 12:14 PM
the supercharger on the 230k has a magnetic clutch... it'S not the BOV that makes this.
the bypass valve is when you release the gaz when the supercharger whines it eliminates fastly the compressed air before the supercharger has time to stop boosting.
That's my understanding.
and for the intake side for the bypass valve, that's what jaysonvaldez is referring to I think when he says "They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that". That means the BOV should be after the IC instead of before...
I'm not sure of everything I just wrote, but for now that's what I understand.
Etienne
Originally posted by MrSpace
the supercharger on the 230k has a magnetic clutch... it'S not the BOV that makes this.
the bypass valve is when you release the gaz when the supercharger whines it eliminates fastly the compressed air before the supercharger has time to stop boosting.
That's my understanding.
and for the intake side for the bypass valve, that's what jaysonvaldez is referring to I think when he says "They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that". That means the BOV should be after the IC instead of before...
I'm not sure of everything I just wrote, but for now that's what I understand.
Etienne LOL now that has totally lost me!!:D :D
SLAMMED_C
10-18-2004, 06:48 PM
the supercharger on the 230k has a magnetic clutch... it'S not the BOV that makes this.
the bypass valve is when you release the gaz when the supercharger whines it eliminates fastly the compressed air before the supercharger has time to stop boosting.
That's my understanding.
and for the intake side for the bypass valve, that's what jaysonvaldez is referring to I think when he says "They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that". That means the BOV should be after the IC instead of before...
I'm not sure of everything I just wrote, but for now that's what I understand.
Etienne
Well from what I know.. the bypass valve located on the side of the airbox is closed under throttle to create boost (when the supercharger clutch is engaged of course), when you are coasting or take your foot off the gas.. the valve opens to relieve pressure and to redirect the boost that was in the system back into the intake/air box so it isnt actually lost.. but reused.
Originally posted by MrSpace
the supercharger on the 230k has a magnetic clutch... it'S not the BOV that makes this.
the bypass valve is when you release the gaz when the supercharger whines it eliminates fastly the compressed air before the supercharger has time to stop boosting.
That's my understanding.
and for the intake side for the bypass valve, that's what jaysonvaldez is referring to I think when he says "They told me they should of mounted it on the intercooler side or something like that". That means the BOV should be after the IC instead of before...
I'm not sure of everything I just wrote, but for now that's what I understand.
Etienne can somebody tell me how the SC Bypass system correctly works under factory condition and under cruise,acceleration,deceleration...
as far as i know it opens under idle and at cruise to bypass the SC and give economy,what i would like to know is of any other uses for it....ie does it open when the throttle body closes to vent
built up boost....or does the magnetic clutch disengage and allow "slip" when the throttle closes.....
Does somebody understand what i am saying??
thanks everyone
;) ;)
thanks Slammed C...
my comp took ages to send that last reply!!
so....does the magnetic clutch disengage under "cruise"
to provide better economy and of couse the bypass would open to allow the engine to be kinda N/A while in cruise???
Im asking this because if this were the case with the bypass,
a BOV would not be the correct system to use.
but i see they have used a BOV on the SLK....so it must work
but it does need to be alot closer to the engine intake to help lag problems.:rolleyes:
;)
MrSpace
10-18-2004, 09:15 PM
you can connect the exhaust of the BOV into the aibox, or leave it free like in the SLK shown. They say it's very loud the "pssht" when exhaust is going into the engine compartment (out of the system).
What I read is that the magnetic clutch disengages when you're cruising. The bypass valve (the factory is an electronic one from VDO) lets the air surge out when the boost stops and the throttle body flap closes and the supercharger still has compressed air sent (between the supercharger and the intake).
Correct me if I'm wrong.
This would bean you can put the BOV right before the intake, about where you see the nitrous injectors on th blue SLK.
Etienne
MrSpace
10-18-2004, 09:16 PM
by the way, that SLK had no more magnetic clutch, it was removed because he changed his pulley to a smaller one for more boost
Etienne
jaysonvaldez
10-19-2004, 12:00 AM
I think some one has to do it and keep us posted ......
benzexpert
10-19-2004, 09:56 AM
post more pics up soon
I took my airbox off last nite and the SC is very loud when it engages!!!:)....and the factory IC is very hard to remove!!:(
If i was to replace my factory bypass with a BOV(not connected back into the intake)
- At idle(under 2000rpm)air would be sucked in via the BOV (unfiltered)because the SC clutch is disengaged(ie NO air will flow)....but if you were to replace the clutch with a fixed pully like the SLK,you would not have this problem
what im really after is that "if " I replace my bypass with a BOV...
At "cruise" when the SC clutch disengages....the air HAS to come from the Bypass.....and if it was a BOV it would flow air,but not enough!!......
If im totally wrong feel free to burn me:( ...................;)
Originally posted by MrSpace
by the way, that SLK had no more magnetic clutch, it was removed because he changed his pulley to a smaller one for more boost
Etienne
that may be why the BOV system works....
:confused:
Paul..
MrSpace
10-19-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by 23K
I took my airbox off last nite and the SC is very loud when it engages!!!:)....and the factory IC is very hard to remove!!:(
If i was to replace my factory bypass with a BOV(not connected back into the intake)
- At idle(under 2000rpm)air would be sucked in via the BOV (unfiltered)because the SC clutch is disengaged(ie NO air will flow)....but if you were to replace the clutch with a fixed pully like the SLK,you would not have this problem
what im really after is that "if " I replace my bypass with a BOV...
At "cruise" when the SC clutch disengages....the air HAS to come from the Bypass.....and if it was a BOV it would flow air,but not enough!!......
If im totally wrong feel free to burn me:( ...................;)
good question
this would mean the VDO electronic bypass valve that we have can flow air in both directions, right?
maybe someone can answer.. when cruising does the supercharger stops completly or just revs less (we could see it with the boost guage)
Etienne
yes!!...A boost gauge would give lots of info!...
Slammed C??
Paul.
SLAMMED_C
10-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Wow.. Im really interested in this BOV application and maybe doing htis mod to my car.. with of course the removal of the supercharger clutch.
What info could you get from the guy with the SLK MrSpace?? only what youve posted or more? did he say what kind of BOV he used, and how he avoided a constant check engine light with the stock diverter valve removed?
as for the question about boost and cruising.. from what ive noticed on my boost gauge, there is only boost created while the supercharger clutch is engaged.. otherwise it bleeds off and returns to 0.. so as you are cruising the engine is running normally aspirated, only when the kickdown switch is depressed does the supercharger engage.. or when the gas is pressed rapidly, then the clutch will engage and boost is created.
and also.. I dont think the diverter valve sucks in any air at all.. it just vents boost from the system.
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Wow.. Im really interested in this BOV application and maybe doing htis mod to my car.. with of course the removal of the supercharger clutch.
What info could you get from the guy with the SLK MrSpace?? only what youve posted or more? did he say what kind of BOV he used, and how he avoided a constant check engine light with the stock diverter valve removed?
as for the question about boost and cruising.. from what ive noticed on my boost gauge, there is only boost created while the supercharger clutch is engaged.. otherwise it bleeds off and returns to 0.. so as you are cruising the engine is running normally aspirated, only when the kickdown switch is depressed does the supercharger engage.. or when the gas is pressed rapidly, then the clutch will engage and boost is created.
and also.. I dont think the diverter valve sucks in any air at all.. it just vents boost from the system. kewl,so the boost drops of when cruising...therefore the bypass MUST open to allow the engine to breath like N/A.....this then MUST mean that if we were to directly replace the bypass with a BOV on our factory system...it would NOT work....unless we changed to a Fixed SC pully....
Does this sound correct??;)
Originally posted by 23K
kewl,so the boost drops of when cruising...therefore the bypass MUST open to allow the engine to breath like N/A.....this then MUST mean that if we were to directly replace the bypass with a BOV on our factory system...it would NOT work....unless we changed to a Fixed SC pully....
Does this sound correct??;)
This is assuming that during "cruise" the clutch disengages...
but if the clutch did not disengage during cruise and the bypass opened then boost would be cycled back through the intake and this would be very unefficiant because of the heated air SC's produce and the fact the SC is still being belt driven when cruising...
SO.....:D .....this leads me to believe that when in "cruise",the SC clutch disengages and air is drawn from the bypass...
also at idle air is drawn from the bypass,because I tested it last night with my airbox removed...
so after all this...can we say,
1.the bypass acts as a pressure relief when boost is on tap and throttle is closed.
2.when cruising air is drawn from the bypass because air cant be drawn from the SC because it is not being driven(the SC is ALMOST airtight when not driven)
This may now mean that air flows back and foward through the bypass depending on weather you are idleing,cruising,or if you are thrashing it:D
Does this mean you cannot replace the bypass with a BOV if you DONT have a fixed SC pully???
Because if you were cruizing with the BOV and you SC disegaged the engine would try to suck through the BOV.
man i got a headach.............:D :D :D
so the moral of the story "could" be...
If you have a fixed pully...you can have a BOV(with alittle less economy)
If you had a fixed pully and VDO bypass...you have poor economy
If you have just a BOV...you may run into problems at cruise and at idle...
someone let me know if this sounds kinda correct!!!...?
MrSpace
10-19-2004, 10:26 PM
how come you reply and quote your own replies 23K??? I'm confused!
you are correct, I also checked the VDO bypass, and it's located after the filter, in order to get filtered air when taking air from outside to feed the engine when NA.
we would have to remove the supercharger clutch to put the BOV and leave the BOV exit open in the engine bay, because if you keep the clutch, getting air into the system by the bypass valve isn't enough, altough maybe yes.. I don't know how much air is sucked by the engine NA, probably a LOT less than when SCed.
soo, same size pulley, no clutch, BOV located near the throttle body instead of where we see it n the application. That's what I think would work.
and you can put a smaller pulley to gain boost. Altough I really don'T know what our engines can handle.. 15psi+ is a lot IMO
Etienne
CKlasse
10-19-2004, 10:48 PM
dang it... take out the SC..and put a T25 under that hood! :D
Originally posted by MrSpace
how come you reply and quote your own replies 23K??? I'm confused!
Etienne
I kinda forgot to to write it all in one go....so i quoted it so the second part made more sense;)
same size pully,no clutch,BOV near throttle body.....I think so to.
so I gues that sums it up Etienne:cool:
SLAMMED_C
10-21-2004, 06:52 PM
K.. I was talkin to a guy at work today.. he says that the diverter valve only releives pressure from the system.. it does not in any way suck air in..
Really:confused: .....Can you ask him what happens at idle
and at cruise when or "if" the SC is disengaged??
the other nite i pulled of my air box and rev'd the engine to 4000rpm....between 800 and 2000 rpm,the SC was disengaged and air was drawn from the bypass,when the SC engaged at 2000 the bypass STAYED open.
does this mean the bypass only closes under engine load??
and when cruising the bypass is open and that just circulates air from the SC back through the intake??
regards,
Paul
Really:confused: .....Can you ask him what happens at idle
and at cruise when or "if" the SC is disengaged??
the other nite i pulled of my air box and rev'd the engine to 4000rpm....between 800 and 2000 rpm,the SC was disengaged and air was drawn from the bypass,when the SC engaged at 2000 the bypass STAYED open.
does this mean the bypass only closes under engine load,
and when cruising the bypass is open and that just circulates air from the SC back through the intake??
regards,
Paul
MrSpace
10-21-2004, 10:46 PM
Someone should tap a pressure sensor in their hoses.
If the VDO only let's air OUT, then the vortech bypass valve should work fine. The question is, the other tube from the air box, going to the SC, what happens when the SC is "off", is there a two way valve sending the air to the throttle body without going in the compressor?
Etienne
SLAMMED_C
10-23-2004, 01:12 PM
Really .....Can you ask him what happens at idle
and at cruise when or "if" the SC is disengaged??
the other nite i pulled of my air box and rev'd the engine to 4000rpm....between 800 and 2000 rpm,the SC was disengaged and air was drawn from the bypass,when the SC engaged at 2000 the bypass STAYED open.
does this mean the bypass only closes under engine load,
and when cruising the bypass is open and that just circulates air from the SC back through the intake??
well at idle and cruising I would think that the diverter valve would be closed, the supercharger in disengaged so no boost is created, the valve in my mind would be closed.
and when the supercharger is engaged the valve would still be closed, then when boost is created and used it is closed, when you take your foot off the gas or slow down enough while cruising that the supercharger disengages it opens to releive the system of boost pressure but redirects it back into the intake system- in the air box.
thats how I understand the system to work.
Im trying to find a function/discription list of the components on the M111 motor, so far Ive been unsuccessful. there is a new version of the WIS (work information system) at work and I hate it.. the old version was a hundred times better, the new version is so hard to find things now.
give me some time as I will still continue to look.
good morning guys...
im currently half way through building a new intake and pressure side of the SC right through to the throttlebody...
before i started this i tested the system "Off load" with out my filter box on....so i could see what happens
when the engine is not under significant load the bypass stays open,regardless of weather the SC is ingaged.
this means...only under acceleration does the bypass close.
this also PROVES that air is sucked in through the bypass at idle...because i put my hand over it and air was being sucked in.
PS I pulled my SC to bits to enlargen the intake on it....not a good idea,its very hard to pull apart,and way to easy to damage...so now im grinding it while it is still intact.....i might need another $2500 very soon:( ..............:)
Hey Slammed C hows the intake project goin??
SLAMMED_C
11-21-2004, 07:13 PM
Hey Slammed C hows the intake project goin??
lol.. havent even started it yet!! Im hoping to start this week. will take some pics as I work on it.
23K: How did your little mod to the supercharger go??
LOL yea its getting hard to find time this close to xmas...
I pulled out the entire system from airbox to throttle body...
Iv made a custom SC inlet and outlet(50 hours at home an work:)) and the trust IC should be here this week so il just have to pipe it all up an T-in the bypass ....
Will post pics when i find a host site,speaking of which...do you use car domain as a host site??
SLAMMED_C
11-22-2004, 06:34 PM
sounds interesting man!!.. cant wait to see the pics.
Yep, I use my car domain site to post my pics from.
Hey heres some pics of progress so far....
notice the very nice bell mouth on the HKS filter:):)
will post pics here when i work out how...
Regards,
Paul
Intake pics (http://members.cardomain.com/silver23K)
J Irwan
11-24-2004, 09:11 PM
nice..
btw what is the other end mount to..?
Also the opening on this end seems to be smaller..
In my opinion it's useless to use bigger intake pipe if you have the other end have smaller opening..
it's like the funnel.. (the rate flow will be the smaller opening ;) ) just my $0.02
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_3_full.jpg
Regardz,
1998K
11-25-2004, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by 23K
LOL yea its getting hard to find time this close to xmas...
I pulled out the entire system from airbox to throttle body...
please post the photo of the throttle body removed, if you will do this. I'm wondering how it's under the 4 (if I'm not wrong) torx screw that thight that body assembly.
...if possible.
thanks a lot:)
Originally posted by J Irwan
nice..
btw what is the other end mount to..?
Also the opening on this end seems to be smaller..
In my opinion it's useless to use bigger intake pipe if you have the other end have smaller opening..
it's like the funnel.. (the rate flow will be the smaller opening ;) ) just my $0.02
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_3_full.jpg
Regardz,
....It mounts directly to the SC....I know it looks restrictive,but it is actually alot bigger than the original!!...and the reason for using 3" piping from the SC is to make sure there is Zero restriction before air reaches the smaller end....try suck through a funnel with a 10mm outlet then try suck through a 10mm pipe a meter long...big difference:):)....
Ill try get picks of the original parts.
Regards
Paul
MrSpace
11-25-2004, 10:37 AM
will you put a bypass valve ad remove the SC clutch??
Etienne
Originally posted by MrSpace
will you put a bypass valve ad remove the SC clutch??
Etienne Yes I will still use the VDO bypass but it will now be positioned inside the guard and vent through a small K&N filter....Thats next weeks plan:)
oh and yes i will still retain the SC clutch for economy purposes.
Regards
Paul
Originally posted by 1998K
please post the photo of the throttle body removed, if you will do this. I'm wondering how it's under the 4 (if I'm not wrong) torx screw that thight that body assembly.
...if possible.
thanks a lot:) Il try get a pic but all that is under the four hex screws is the butterfly valve....
its all very nicely machined:)
MrSpace
11-25-2004, 12:50 PM
I hope you take many many pictures of everything
I really look forward to do this
Etienne
I should have my TRUST IC today so will mount it all next week and take lots of pics including one of the old system virses the new...
Im reluctant to say wheather all this work will add any HP,maybe loose it!!...but it will sound and look good:):)
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
11-25-2004, 06:51 PM
thats lookin really nice man.. cant wait to see the next bunch of pics. hurry!!!!
as for the whole set up you are doing.. what do you mean the bypass valve will now vent through the guard??.. what guard?
so instead of boost pressure venting back into the intake it will vent to atmosphere..right?
I had thought about eliminating the stock bypass valve and go for an aftermarket bypass valve, but the problem with that is the check engine light would then be on no doubt. is there a way to trick the computer to thinking the valve is still there? any electronics guru's here?
and I dont know how the aftermarket valve would fair out in place of the factory valve. if it would work the same, if I would run into any driveability problems.
so for now Im sticking with the stock set up but making the "cold air intake" but now youve got me thinking about moving the stock bypass valve slightly and running another filter on it.
and about the IC you are doing.. is it larger than stock?.. will it fit right into place? and are you running larger diameter pipe through the whole intake system with nice full bends in the pipes and not squashed down bends like factory?
1998K
11-25-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by 23K
Il try get a pic but all that is under the four hex screws is the butterfly valve....
its all very nicely machined:)
thanks a lot 23K, You are really nice. Does the butterfly valve come a bit dirty? In that case I'm wondering to dismount it and clean?
Do you suggest this?
Thanks again :) :)
Thanks Man...
As for the VDO bypass it will now be positioned out of sight in the front gaurd just before the IC,Boost will vent into the atmosphere,
I cant see any need to vent hot air back into the intake other than reducing noise:):)
The biggest problem i can think of with changing the bypass with a BOV is they are totally different style valves...
ie:the bov relies on the difference in manifold vaccum virses boost...which may cause trouble when the SC cluth disengages.
Where as the VDO bypass is controlled independantly by the computer,which opens it when it needs to be open etc...
The IC is larger than stock...the core size is 600x187x76,theres a pic of it on cardomain.Its about as wide as the front grill,so it looks great...
I had to cut off the two bottom nuts that hold on the bumper and will have to grind a small portion of the front impact bar join to make it all fit snug...No major:)
The TRUST IC kit I have was made for toyota altezza so it came with heaps of alloy piping and almost all of it fitted where i wanted it to(Lucky Huh)
The piping is only slightly bigger than factory with nice mandrel alloy bends...its about 50mm,
Ideally the pressure side should start of small and gradually get bigger all the way to the throttle...
I hope the new system does not give too much lag due to the bigger IC and piping....and if it does than it better give good results it the higher rev range!!:)
When I have the system complete i will take pics of it external to the engine bay alongside the old system for comparisan.
I also have a factory dyno run to compare later on...
Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by 1998K
thanks a lot 23K, You are really nice. Does the butterfly valve come a bit dirty? In that case I'm wondering to dismount it and clean?
Do you suggest this?
Thanks again :) :)
Thanks 1998K,mine was very clean,I guess it all depends on how much oil comes out of the oil seperator...
Its very easy to check,just remove the four hex screws and hose clamp,just be careful not to drop anything down the hole;)
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
11-26-2004, 07:37 PM
As for an aftermarket bypass valve over a BOV.. how about the bypass valve by vortech..
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/race_bypass.giforhttp://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/mondo_bypass.gif
putting one of those in place of the stock bypass valve? or this diverter valve by Hyperboost..
http://www.stratmosphere.com/adjust_valve_b.jpg
would these work?.. but there still would be the problem of the check engine light on with the stock one not connected.. I guess venting the stock bypass valve to atmosphere instead of back into the intake would give me the sound Im looking for anyway?!!
How did you decide on the IC that was meant for the Altezza?? Do you have a web address for the Trust site?? I can seem to find them anywhere.
yeh it is lucky that it fits with only some minor mods, I was wondering what you would have to cut to make proper mandrel bent pipe fit in those tight spaces!! I am interested in doing an IC too, but also wonder if the larger diameter pipe and larger IC would take away from the boost at all?
how thick is that aluminium you used to make the flanges that ount to the supercharger? did you TIG it yourself?
Keep us all up to date with your mods.. I would like to see more of what you are doing.
It reminds me of the day i bought $600 BLITZ BOV to put on my EVO3....
afterwords my boost always spiked,(the factory one let air slip)
my engine didnt idle as well,(because it didnt open at idle as much as the factory item)
also the engine was not as smooth between gear changes(because it seemed to cause compessor surge)
and after a while I got sick of the noise,It was cool for a while.
so i changed back to Factor BOV and all was smooth.
Im guessing the VDO venting into the air will make some noise,And i hope it isnt to loud,I would like to hear it though:)
As far as high performance Jap parts i have used
www.Takakaira.co.jp online ordering for 3 years now...very relieable!!,i have spent about 15K with them.they are cheaper.
the trust kit i have cost $1550NZD but usually cost $1850 and it was delivered to my door. it all depends on you countries import tax!!iv heard its massive in some areas!...
once you have removed the factory system there is quit alot of room...more than i have had previously:)
the flanges i have are 5mm...
I constucted all parts then took them in to a alloy big manufacturing plant for one of the boys too weld them for me...I do stainless but not aluminum...it can be tricky:)especially when you spend so much time constructing the parts i couldn't bear to blw big holes in it all!! :rolleyes: .
Will post more pics as i progress man...
Regards,
Paul
oh and i guess there will be a very small delay in boost response
down low in the rev range due to piping and IC sizing,but I hope this is made up for further on in the revs...
Guess il know when shes on the rollers next ;)
Regards,
Paul
1998K
11-28-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by 23K
Thanks 1998K,mine was very clean,I guess it all depends on how much oil comes out of the oil seperator...
Its very easy to check,just remove the four hex screws and hose clamp,just be careful not to drop anything down the hole;)
Regards,
Paul
Hi again Paul, but the question is do you still have the oil separator? Do you suggest to put a suitable filter since, as it seems, the vapour oil come AFTER the air filter itself. Correct?
Further do you know how that black box work? there are several pipes from the oil dipstick, the engine and also a small one from the kompressor (may be to stop at high rev/minute). really I'm still wondering how it operate, if a maintenance cleaning is requested and so and so...
Thanks for any information
Marco:)
MrSpace
11-29-2004, 03:06 AM
23K: you want to vent your factory VDO bypass into the air?
Will you put a cone filter at the end because you said the VDO was sucking air when the kompressor clutch was disengaged
Etienne
Originally posted by 1998K
Hi again Paul, but the question is do you still have the oil separator? Do you suggest to put a suitable filter since, as it seems, the vapour oil come AFTER the air filter itself. Correct?
Further do you know how that black box work? there are several pipes from the oil dipstick, the engine and also a small one from the kompressor (may be to stop at high rev/minute). really I'm still wondering how it operate, if a maintenance cleaning is requested and so and so...
Thanks for any information
Marco:)
Hi,Im goin to replace the the factory seperator...mainly because i dont want to tap into the pressure side of the new SC piping,and it would be good to find a better looking one:)
Im not totally sure how it works but I picked it up the other day and it looks like:
Any oil venting from the valve cover vents into the box...
when in the box it spirils to the centre then drops down back to the sump via the dipstick,and any air pressure is vented to the air filter box....and the only reason i can think of for the tapping of the SC is to provide airflow to stop blockages or build-up...
Let me know if you find out any more about its workings...
Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by MrSpace
23K: you want to vent your factory VDO bypass into the air?
Will you put a cone filter at the end because you said the VDO was sucking air when the kompressor clutch was disengaged
Etienne
Yes im just looking for a small K&N...should do the trick:)...
also i think the VDO valve stays open when the engine is off,so it will be a must to get a filter...
Regards,
Paul
Hey 1998K:Im pretty sure the factory seperator works quit well,have you checked wheather there is build-up through the system??,my system had very little build-up if any...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
11-29-2004, 07:43 PM
Hey 23K:
Are those flanges you made for the supercharger to hold the intake on with made from scratch or are they the stock flanges modified?
I am curious to know that with the replacement intercooler and intercooler pipe, if there be any boost drop at all? or will it just be a lack of boost at lower rpm's until it is built back up?
I think renntech makes an intercooler for the W202.. did you look into that at all?
Im looking into an intercooler myself, but I dont think there will be any hp gains from doing this mod. with a larger intercooler you may slightly lower the air charge temp, but I just dont see it happening for some reason.. I think we need to look into water injection or some sort of co2 system to spray on the intercooler itself to cool the air going through it.
Do you know how many cfm's the stock intercooler flows and how much the new one you are modifying to fit flows?
have you done a pulley kit and chip at all on your motor? if so what tuner?
1998K
11-30-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by 23K
Hey 1998K:Im pretty sure the factory seperator works quit well,have you checked wheather there is build-up through the system??,my system had very little build-up if any...
Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul, since I'm not so skilful as you seems me, I've not any idea how to open that box to check dirt and, in case, clean.
I have removed the pipes but could not be able to open anything.
Please how do you perform this?
I want to open that black plastic box, is it possible?
Besides about your explanation on the system, it seems me the most probable: air box (and relevant pipe) to provide the necessay vacuum, oil dipstick to provide the return line to the sump. The small pipe to the SC may be as you suggested or, may be, to close (or open) any internal valve into the separator? So the system open (or close?) over 2000rev/min (when factory SC will engage if I'm not wrong).
You are the only one that I've found interested in this device:)
Hi
Marco
1998K
11-30-2004, 12:51 AM
to 23K
Dear Paul please be informed that referring to the other post you were repling me (bumper cutting in way of rear exhaust), I try several times and in several ways, to open that tread but, due to strange problem in my PC or system, I really can't open and read you reply. Sorry:(
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Hey 23K:
Are those flanges you made for the supercharger to hold the intake on with made from scratch or are they the stock flanges modified?
I am curious to know that with the replacement intercooler and intercooler pipe, if there be any boost drop at all? or will it just be a lack of boost at lower rpm's until it is built back up?
I think renntech makes an intercooler for the W202.. did you look into that at all?
Im looking into an intercooler myself, but I dont think there will be any hp gains from doing this mod. with a larger intercooler you may slightly lower the air charge temp, but I just dont see it happening for some reason.. I think we need to look into water injection or some sort of co2 system to spray on the intercooler itself to cool the air going through it.
Do you know how many cfm's the stock intercooler flows and how much the new one you are modifying to fit flows?
have you done a pulley kit and chip at all on your motor? if so what tuner?
Hey Man,yea those flanges are all custom made,i just picked up a sheet of 5mm and one of 2mm from down the road...
I agree there will be a small loss down low in the rev range due to lag from bigger piping,IC etc...
in my opinion,the factory system is only good enough for the 5-8psi our cars run(after 5000 RPM it gradually raises to 8 as the engine breaths less than the SC output)...
and as you probley already know temperature rises at a huge rate as pressure rises...there maybe a gain above 5000...maybe not...
the factory IC is also positioned so it doesn't get a great flow of air...not to mention the very poor IC tanks which can be seen when taken out!!.....
The main reason i have replace the IC is that my next plan is to raise pressure...and when i raise pressure i want cooling to be adequit...
not to mention the system should sound and look very nice,so it may not be a complete waste of time:p
I haven't looked into any other intercoolers,(for a benz anyway)I already know Trust make a very fine job with a design for as less pressure drop as possible.
also i wanted to make custom SC inlet and outlet so they probley wouldnt have fitted any aftermarket MB parts.
the Trust kit also came with a window washer kit...whick i might use for a IC spray if i find time....
I could have gone all the way and tested the temperature and flow of the factory system at verious parts but...but im kinda the one to say "if its factory replace it".... just luv custom stuff:)
I checked your page man,and somewhere iv read there is no more kleeman kits....it would be nice to pick up a set of those pullys rather than me have to make them,but iv heard of other kits...
Got the IC almost piped in this week,wanted to take pics but someones got the cam:(
:)Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by 1998K
Hi Paul, since I'm not so skilful as you seems me, I've not any idea how to open that box to check dirt and, in case, clean.
I have removed the pipes but could not be able to open anything.
Please how do you perform this?
I want to open that black plastic box, is it possible?
Besides about your explanation on the system, it seems me the most probable: air box (and relevant pipe) to provide the necessay vacuum, oil dipstick to provide the return line to the sump. The small pipe to the SC may be as you suggested or, may be, to close (or open) any internal valve into the separator? So the system open (or close?) over 2000rev/min (when factory SC will engage if I'm not wrong).
You are the only one that I've found interested in this device:)
Hi
Marco
Hi Marco,i had a look at the system today and are very sure the tapping off the SC is just to provide adequit airflow through the seperator...
also the seperator cannot be opened...you may check if it is blocked buy blowing through it and blocking various ports to check flow...
If you wish to clean it you may want to Run mineral turpentine through it(when its not on the car;) )
over all I have not seen any of these blocked before...but i only see a minority.
Regards,
Paul
MrSpace
12-01-2004, 09:58 AM
get the ASP kit for your pulley
then when you need mnore boost, change the SC pulley for a smaller one and you can then go as high as you want for boost
you will probably have to remove the SC clutch then, but anyways if you put a vortech bypass valve you will be better to remove the clutch so the bypass always exits air and never enters it to the engine
Etienne
Originally posted by MrSpace
get the ASP kit for your pulley
then when you need mnore boost, change the SC pulley for a smaller one and you can then go as high as you want for boost
you will probably have to remove the SC clutch then, but anyways if you put a vortech bypass valve you will be better to remove the clutch so the bypass always exits air and never enters it to the engine
Etienne
Hey etienne,
Im pretty keen on retaining the clutch system for economy etc,
and im not too keen on having a BOV goin all day...
so i guess im not left with alot of options...
need kleeman kit!!
would you mind handing over yours slammed C:D ....
regards,
Paul
PS,Posted more updated pics...http://www.cardomain.com/id/silver23K
Regards,
Paul
MrSpace
12-01-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by 23K
Hey etienne,
Im pretty keen on retaining the clutch system for economy etc,
and im not too keen on having a BOV goin all day...
so i guess im not left with alot of options...
need kleeman kit!!
would you mind handing over yours slammed C:D ....
regards,
Paul
well, you have two choice for more boost
oversize the crank pulley or undersize the SC pulley.
You have a maximum for oversizing the crank since after a little bit the belt won't pass because of the tensionners. My ASP pulley gives a little less boost than the Kleemann but is way cheaper.
I'm pretty sure there is a way to reduce also the SC pulley and keep the SC clutch. That way, with changing the SC pulley size you can go as small as you want thus having as much boost as you'd like.
Etienne
Etienne:
Iv been thinking about machining the factory pully alittle smaller to see what happens...
have you measured your old pully against your new one??if so how much smaller is the new one??
there might be enough meat on the factory pully to get good boost....
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-01-2004, 08:02 PM
would you mind handing over yours slammed C
lol.. let me think about that, ummmmmm NO!! I was so lucky to find my Kleemann kit.. its not going out of my site!!
and as for creating as much boost as you want... thats not true, there is a limit.. 11psi is about the max boost for the Eaton supercharger.. any more and your gonna overheat the bearing and destroy the charger. even at 11psi of boost the supercharger is slightly overspinning.
I wouldnt recomment making the charger pulley smaller.. just the crank pulley larger. in order to do the smaller charger pulley you would have to eliminate the clutch.
and machining the stock pulleys is a waste of time in my mind.. go with a kit or custom make crank pulley.
that Trust kit is expensive!! I may go the route of a custom intercooler from turbonetics, not sure yet.. still have to fab some flanges to replace the rediculous looking stock supercharger inlet and outlet manifolds.. then do some more custom piping.
are you able to make templates of the flanges you made? I cant really pull my car apart as I need to drive it every day, I would really appreciate it if you could make a paper template with some dimensions.
You do nice work 23K, how do u manage to do all this work on your car.. dont you drive it??!! I wish I had another car.. then Id be able to progress more.
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
lol.. let me think about that, ummmmmm NO!! I was so lucky to find my Kleemann kit.. its not going out of my site!!
LOL...had too try:D ...
There must be another kit out there somewhere,I will hunt around...
thanks for the info on maximum pressure,I have read a few books on turbo/SC efficiancy and applications and agree it would not be wise to go higher than 11psi...
Yes the trust kit is alittle expensive...but it would have cost me 600NZD for a crap IC with no piping/hose/clamps...
it all depends on how strong your dollar is against the yen i guess...
I must say buying a 99 toyota deisel was a good idea:),it does
660kms to a 38L tank,this gets me to the airport every day so dont have to take the benz...
the biggest problem i had with the SC inlet was how tight the room was...the engine mount is in the way,and if you have a right hand drive the steering box is also taking room...
The way i got around this was to construct the flange out of
5mm plastic sheet,drilled small holes at each corner of the intake part of the flange,then used hot glue to insert wire...
Then i bent the wire into a frame that ressembled the shape of the intake...i fitted it continuosly while trying to get the perfect angle to miss the exhaust manifold...
After this a took 2L icecream containers and used the thin plastic to cut and glue panels to my wire frame so that i had a complete replica of the new intake....
when this was complete and it fitted,i pulled the plastic panels of and used them as templates to cut the alloy...
Then i bent the alloy in very odd shapes and fitted the alloy to my wire frame carefully to get the correct shapes....this was VERY hard to get a perfect match...
then after i had it all welded up i bought a small rotary grinder and made the intake and outlet smooth inside...
this all took about 100 hours work...
another problem i had was the bolts on the intake also make it very tight,so i will have to buy longer bolts and space them with stainless pipe so it will all fit...
what im really leading up to is that i think you may still need to take the car of the road to complete this task...
I guess you maybe able to pull the car to bits and constuct a wire frame for inlet and outlet in one day,but it will be hard.
Lol it sounds alittle overwhelming i know,good to see end results though;)
Regards,
Paul
MrSpace
12-02-2004, 11:06 AM
For the crank pulley: ASP
I got 25hp and 40lbs/ft of gain
check out http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14033
Etienne
Originally posted by MrSpace
For the crank pulley: ASP
I got 25hp and 40lbs/ft of gain
check out http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14033
Etienne
Hey,
what is your commen pump fuel grade??
also do you know if mercedes degrade engine performance for different countries due to climate change etc...
because i know honda does....
Im curious because i had mine dyno'd on a very reliable rolling road by a tuning firm and it came out at 175 RWHP.
I read your thread and see yours came out alot lower...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-02-2004, 06:55 PM
LOL...had too try
Yeh I dont blame you!!
I see.. so u r right hand drive.. well thats no good for me.. but I may have some more room then.
I may have to hold off my intake till I can get a day or 2 to pull my car apart. well this sucks.. thanks anyway man.
well we range from 87 up to 94 octane. I run 94 all the time.
Im pretty sure mercedes detunes the cars for different countries.. but not based on climates.. its based on emissions regulations depending on country.
most European cars in the same model will probably have more hp then one found in the states or canada.
Yeh Ive been doing a lil research on boost for my SC too.. I found out that 11psi is max for the Eaton SC on the M111 motor. You would have to swap out the SC for a different one (bigger) to make more boost.. but it would have to be custom as that Eaton charger is made specially for benz, so anything else wont just bolt up.
jnenad16
12-02-2004, 07:11 PM
well, you can always go with a centrifugal supercharger, like powerdyne or procharger or paxton.
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Yeh I dont blame you!!
I see.. so u r right hand drive.. well thats no good for me.. but I may have some more room then.
I may have to hold off my intake till I can get a day or 2 to pull my car apart. well this sucks.. thanks anyway man.
well we range from 87 up to 94 octane. I run 94 all the time.
Im pretty sure mercedes detunes the cars for different countries.. but not based on climates.. its based on emissions regulations depending on country.
most European cars in the same model will probably have more hp then one found in the states or canada.
Yeh Ive been doing a lil research on boost for my SC too.. I found out that 11psi is max for the Eaton SC on the M111 motor. You would have to swap out the SC for a different one (bigger) to make more boost.. but it would have to be custom as that Eaton charger is made specially for benz, so anything else wont just bolt up.
Hey,yea im right hand drive...its a big downside,my exhaust manifold is also different to the left hand drive...the pipes meet each other at right angles...which is a big lose...
Also supersprint dont make them for right hand drive because it is too tight!!...
It would be good to see if the intake casting is the same on your model...
Our pump fuel ranges from 91 - 96 - 98...and I cant help but buy 98:),
the lady owner before me said she put 91 in it and it made funny noises............Now thats scarey:D.hope she realised and didnt drive it hard...
also every turbo jap import in this country wont handle enything less than 96...
I agree if you want to go any higher than you will need to upgrade your pressure supplier...so where sort of limited to about 250hp??...
I would like to go turbo one day maybe...its just so much money and work to get a nice setup...but at least i could get rid of my nasty header....
hey did your kleeman kit come with a bigger alternator pully,smaller SC pully and bigger Crank pully??
Regards,
Paul
MrSpace
12-02-2004, 10:35 PM
our cars are rated 189 crank hp (US/Canada). The 1999-2000 C230k gets ~150 at the wheel and the newer one got ~155 at the wheel even if it still was 189 at crank according to MB.
Mine was dynoed on a dynapack dyno and that might be why it was so low. Our ESP doesn'T come completly off and I read somewhere that when you press the ESP button, i allows the wheels to spin at a different speed front vs rear but not right vs left.
That would explain why I got so low number son the dynapack. next spring I'm going on a normal dyno with the barrels.
Anyways, if you car is manual, also it's not the US/Can version so it has already more power from MB... that might explain the high output. Graham230k on this forum also got something like 276rwhp from his dyno run with a manual C230k from england.
Etienne
hey Etienne,
yea, that all sounds most likely the case...
I guess the manual transmission lose would be different too...
also mine has traction control,and when its off.......its off
cant wait to get mine back on the rollers to see if i loose or gain with this custom work...
also i E-mailed Kleemann USA,it looks like they still advertise the w202 pully kit on the there official site...waiting to hear back.
if it doesnt work out probley go ASP like you mentioned...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-04-2004, 12:27 PM
Hey,yea im right hand drive...its a big downside,my exhaust manifold is also different to the left hand drive...the pipes meet each other at right angles...which is a big lose...
Also supersprint dont make them for right hand drive because it is too tight!!...
It would be good to see if the intake casting is the same on your model...
Our pump fuel ranges from 91 - 96 - 98...and I cant help but buy 98,
the lady owner before me said she put 91 in it and it made funny noises............Now thats scarey.hope she realised and didnt drive it hard...
also every turbo jap import in this country wont handle enything less than 96...
I agree if you want to go any higher than you will need to upgrade your pressure supplier...so where sort of limited to about 250hp??...
I would like to go turbo one day maybe...its just so much money and work to get a nice setup...but at least i could get rid of my nasty header....
hey did your kleeman kit come with a bigger alternator pully,smaller SC pully and bigger Crank pully??
Regards,
Paul
WoW.. a funny noise huh?!!!! I hope she didnt do permanent damage.
yeh the only way to get more power is to replace the SC with a larger one, or go turbo.. which is what Im thinkin of eventually doing too.. there is a company in the states that is developing a turbo system for the C-coupe 2.3L engine.. so it may be adaptable to our cars. they are saying 256hp at the rear wheels and 264ft lbs of torque.. theres the link, Turbo C-coupe (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89661&highlight=turbo)
when I pull my car apart I will have to see if I have more room and can have a slightly different set up than you did.
For my Kleemann kit, it came with a new crank pulley-larger diameter, new alternator pulley- larger diameter, the SC pulley was not replaced, it does stay the same size. it also cam with a new belt, new colder spark plugs, MAS relocation kit, some new badging.
there will be a smaller lose of power through a manual transmission, our automatics have about a 20% lose if Im not mistaken.. the manual tranny is much less, maybe 10-15% loss.
thats another thing Im goining o do at some point.. a manual transmission upgrade from a 2002 c-coupe, 6 spd on a M111 block, I dont see why it wouldnt fit.
MrSpace
12-04-2004, 12:39 PM
or get a euro W202 manual trans
there should start to be some in the euro junkyards...
Etienne
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
WoW.. a funny noise huh?!!!! I hope she didnt do permanent damage.
yeh the only way to get more power is to replace the SC with a larger one, or go turbo.. which is what Im thinkin of eventually doing too.. there is a company in the states that is developing a turbo system for the C-coupe 2.3L engine.. so it may be adaptable to our cars. they are saying 256hp at the rear wheels and 264ft lbs of torque.. theres the link, Turbo C-coupe (http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89661&highlight=turbo)
when I pull my car apart I will have to see if I have more room and can have a slightly different set up than you did.
For my Kleemann kit, it came with a new crank pulley-larger diameter, new alternator pulley- larger diameter, the SC pulley was not replaced, it does stay the same size. it also cam with a new belt, new colder spark plugs, MAS relocation kit, some new badging.
there will be a smaller lose of power through a manual transmission, our automatics have about a 20% lose if Im not mistaken.. the manual tranny is much less, maybe 10-15% loss.
thats another thing Im goining o do at some point.. a manual transmission upgrade from a 2002 c-coupe, 6 spd on a M111 block, I dont see why it wouldnt fit.
Hey yea i hope she didnt do any damage!....if somthing goes wrong might just have to drop in the forged bits:D
nice turbo kit,very tight...makes me wanna change to turbo...
I was wondering if i was to change to turbo and run 5psi wheather or not i would need ECU reprograming etc??
I think you may have alittle more room,but your header may take more room also...let us know how you get on....
11psi kleeman kit sounds the way to go....hope they still have some.
the 6-speed manual sounds good,i'd be really keen for that...have you looked at the cost??
I guess you already knew this but - I dont recommend you install the W202 manual...it may be slightly more efficiant than the auto but you'll spend 5mins between changes LOL......its the worst box iv seen:p,
hope they got it right with the 6-speed...
also the pics you have on you page have awsome clarity man nice work guess ill have to find a good camera...
Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by MrSpace
there should start to be some in the euro junkyards...
LOL......... I think thats where they should stay:D:p
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-04-2004, 06:31 PM
Hey yea i hope she didnt do any damage!....if somthing goes wrong might just have to drop in the forged bits.
nice turbo kit,very tight...makes me wanna change to turbo...
I was wondering if i was to change to turbo and run 5psi wheather or not i would need ECU reprograming etc??
I think you may have alittle more room,but your header may take more room also...let us know how you get on....
11psi kleeman kit sounds the way to go....hope they still have some.
the 6-speed manual sounds good,i'd be really keen for that...have you looked at the cost??
I guess you already knew this but - I dont recommend you install the W202 manual...it may be slightly more efficiant than the auto but you'll spend 5mins between changes LOL......its the worst box iv seen,
hope they got it right with the 6-speed...
also the pics you have on you page have awsome clarity man nice work guess ill have to find a good camera...
yeh I know I saw that turbo kit and wanted it too.. Ill have to wait and see if it adaptable to my car or not.. and see how much its gonna cost to do.
the supercharger on my car is great dont get me wrong.. but theres just something about a turbo!!
If you were to change to turbo and run 5psi.. youd running the same PSI as stock.. you wouldnt need to modify ecu as it would be the same as stock.. although I would have it chipped to get the most out of it.
i will for sure let everyone know how I come along with my intake design.
good luck if you can find the Kleemann kit, but if you can find one buy it. you wont be disappointed!! the best one in my mind.
Yeh I know about the 5 spd on the W202 c-class!!.. its awfull. thats why Im opting for the 6spd from the c-coupe.. although not that much better its still a lot nicer. the best one by far is the new 6spd from the M271 engine (w203 C230 kompressor) really nice manual box, a dream to navigate through the gears, but I dont think the bolts for the tranny are the same on the M111 block.
thanks man.. yeh it was my dads camera, I inherited it after he died. one of my dads hobbies was photography, so he had great camera equiptment, its a great camera with interchangeable lenses.
its a Mamiya, japanese camera I think. takes great pictures.
Hey man,
Yea i assumed there wouldnt be to much trouble with the ECU if i change to turbo.....its all sounding more and more convincing every day:D ....
Just got a reply from Kleemann USA and they said they have discontinued the kit in USA only...but head office in denmark still has them...
Im very keen on the 6 - speed....i dont think id be able to find one at the reckers....
Have you looked at the price for a new one??...i guess it'l cost a heap!...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-07-2004, 04:01 PM
Yeh I know.. If this kit comes out I may just have to get one.. I think a turbo car would be more fun!!
Ill keep you posted on if that company (AutoWerks) does mass produce it.
Im guessing you have emailed the office in Denmark already!! if not...HURRY UP!!! you will not be dissapointed with the Klemmann kit.
Yeh Im really wanting that 6spd from the 2002 C-coupe... just gotta find a Wreck with the tranny still in tact!! I dont know if I will be able to find one from a wreckers, but I will try for sure.. as for brand new I havent looked into it but Im guessing about $2500-3000 canadian for the trans.
Yeh turbo's more fun for sure......
so much easier to raise boost as you modify ecu/fuel/internals etc
Yip i mailed kleemann straight away....Ill see how much the kleemann kit will cost and compare weather i save and go turbo instead....
Its alittle late for me to be deciding...since iv spent so much time on the SC inlet and outlet...lol:rolleyes:...
Ill check reckers too....never know what might turn up....
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-09-2004, 07:56 PM
Yeh its a great thing.. the wreckers!!.. just so hard to find anything for benz's.
any word from Kleemann in Denmark??
yeh.. lol, its a bit late now.. after spending all that time making those inlet and outlets for your SC and spending all that money on the intercooler kit!!, You'd probably be better off if you stuck with the SC for a bit!!
anymore pics of progress yet??
On tuesday Im gonna do some work on my intake...FINALLY!!... its shop night so I can work on my car!! gonna pull the intake system out and pull out my SC inlet to make some templates and take some measurements. then its off to the metal supplier to get some sheet Aluminium!
Hey yeh no word from Kleemann yet.......
I think i will stick with the SC for a while till i need more HP's...
Progress is good,iv just finished fitting the IC + lugs and piping, and mounting the bypass....
have been soo busy,havent had time to post more pics...
Iv still got to get longer bolts for the intake and a small K&N filter for the bypass along with a new oil separator system...
I had to clean all the silicon out of the SC....because i used it as a barrier when i enlargened the intake....but still bits of alloy found there way in......so i carefully washed it all out....
if it does damage there will be lose of boost and MB charge $2000 for a new SC......hope i dont go there....
I really want this done before xmas so i can cruise the beaches!!....its a long shot though..
goodluck with the intake man...
I will post some pics up close of my intake....
I recommend you make a plastic flange and insert wire into it....its a very easy way to see if it will all fit, and easy to adjust to fit perfect.....if i havent thrown it out ill post a pic of it too
also when you pull out the SC you must pull it out with the intake attached.....if you get it on the right angle you should be able to lift up the radiator hose and it should slide out with alittle pressure....but its VERY tricky
put a thin clothe down under where the filter box was and over the side of the chassis to avoid scraping all your paint...
hope that helps alittle.
Regards,
Paul
Hey hows the intake....did you get the SC off??...
Posted a few more pics of the new setup etc...
took it for a cruize last weekend....the bypass makes a unique
noise....not like the usual 2L turbo BOV....
and it only goes when you drive hard....so it doesnt drive me crazy when im cruzn...
click me (http://www.cardomain.com/id/silver23k)
there is definatly a difference in performance....mainly after 3000rpm....there is also alittle more lag down low but not much..
cant wait to get her on the rollers....
also i put my had over the intake and even at 2500rpm there is massive amounts of air flowing,imagine at 7500!!...so i hope the high flow intake helped...
Regards,
Paul
crazy00c230k
12-14-2004, 11:55 PM
WOW, ur intake looks awesome, i love the ic
Originally posted by crazy00c230k
WOW, ur intake looks awesome, i love the ic
Thanks man....
are you think'n of doin one too??...
Ill soon find out if it was all worth it when i get on the rollers...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-15-2004, 06:48 PM
Hey hows the intake....did you get the SC off??...
no... I had to do some work on my brothers van.. so by the time I was done, I didnt have enough time to mess around with removing my SC.
Ill have to wait till next shop night now.
damn man.. that looks tight.. I like how everything goes together.. im not a fan off the cut out in your bumper for the intercooler though!!
but that whole set up looks so nice.
I cant wait to get mine done!!.. I hope it all pays off in the end.
Im just going to do the intake for now.. I will have to look into a new intercooler later on, but it will be replaced!
So what does it sound like?? wit the intake sucking noise and the bypass valve releasing air?
does it sound good or no?
yeh im not a big fan of cutting the front bumper either!!!....but its only temperary till i can get a custom front made.....
As for sound.....Iv never been keen on the BOV noise....
The bypass makes a very different Pssssh,and its not too loud....but only when you give it heaps.....so it doesnt go under average driving....which is how i like it,but many like it in every gear all day long.....ie 30mm turbos...
there is alittle downside.....the SC makes a whiney noise almost all the time......i never knew the SC stayed on under deceleration,or even when your coasting down a hill.......
but when i build the cold airbox this should change things alittle,im goin to cut a duct under the headlight to feed it....
lol another hole in the bumper!!
Over all i think the new system is great........Iv got alot of "WTF that benz has a Front mount"Looks from people......well i guess I havent seen many like this either
well...better ask me after i dyno it:D
Hey you have a boost gauge ay?...
what RPM does your SC first reach 5-5.5psi..
Iv got a gauge lying around im going to chuck on tonight....
Im alittle worried my worn SC lobes might be affecting initial boost...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-16-2004, 02:24 PM
so what kinda bumper you gonna have made??.. what will it look like?
sweet.. I love BOV sounds.. I want a turbo car so I can have that pssssshhhhhfff sound!! gotta get a turbo 4wd car next. SC whine is great too.. I love it.. makes people turn there head when you have that whine goin!!
so the intake really opens up the noise from the engine and SC then!.. nice.
I was wondering if you were going to be building a box to put your filter in.. you going to seal the top of the box to the hood or with a cover?
Im goin to run my cone filter all the way behind the front bumper through that opening just below the headlight.. I see that you ran your intercooler pipe down through there, is there any other space to run the IC pipe another way since I will be using that opening for my intake?
yep. I have an Autometer boost gauge.. I will check tonight when I go out again and let you know what rpm my SC kicks in at.
if they were worn I think you would see loss of boost all the time and not just when first starting off.
Ill post later tonight with RPM numbers for you.
Iv got a few ideas on bumpers.....one was too make one like the drawing iv just posted on my cardomain page...
I can only dream about making it look like that!!....Here (http://www.cardomain.com/id/silver23k)
I guess i will make the box seal against the bonnet....Il see what works out best....its goin to be alittle tight because of the IC piping though...
Yeh i would have liked to have had my filter down in the bumper....but i didnt want to run the IC piping the same way as factory.....its very tight....so i guess you will have to follow the factory piping if you use that opening for the intake......
Kewl yeh il check mine tonight too.....iv got an old HKS boost gauge my girlfriends sister stole out of some guys toyota starlet....LOL
I guess your right about lose of boost of most of the rev range if it is damaged.....dyno will help clear this...
oh i just remembered you have a pully kit.......i guess boost will come on faster due to the initially higher SC RPM.....but let us know how you get on....
Regards,
Paul
Iv got a few ideas on bumpers.....one was too make one like the drawing iv just posted on my cardomain page...
I can only dream about making it look like that!!....Here (http://www.cardomain.com/id/silver23k) ...
or maybe a bumper like the CLK-DTM...mmmmmmm would trade everything for that car..............
I guess i will make the box seal against the bonnet....Il see what works out best....its goin to be alittle tight because of the IC piping though...
Yeh i would have liked to have had my filter down in the bumper....but i didnt want to run the IC piping the same way as factory.....its very tight....so i guess you will have to follow the factory piping if you use that opening for the intake......
Kewl yeh il check mine tonight too.....iv got an old HKS boost gauge my girlfriends sister stole out of some guys toyota starlet....LOL
I guess your right about lose of boost of most of the rev range if it is damaged.....dyno will help clear this...
oh i just remembered you have a pully kit.......i guess boost will come on faster due to the initially higher SC RPM.....but let us know how you get on....
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
12-16-2004, 07:17 PM
As for bumper ideas.. it looks like you could get something like a Rieger front bumper add-on.. just may fit with some minor modifications.
I have a Rieger front bumper add-on.. have to put it on though!!.. in the better weather.
but that drawing looks pretty cool.. W202 DTM?
what about using a C32 front bumper and molding your W202 bumper with the W203 bumper.. maybe adding some SL65 front lower side vents??
I kept wondering why the hell you put the filter in the engine compartment!!.. but the best idea may be to have it seal to the hood.. but its gonna be a bitch to figure out clearances so it seats nicely against the hood. maybe a box with a plexi-glass lid to seal it off would be different?
Damn.. I didnt want to hear that!!.. what size pipe did you use for the IC pipe?
Im gonna have to run it close to the stock location to get it to fit when I run my intake down behind the bumper. I hope I can figure something out.
Yeh thats right... KLEEMANN!!! lol
well I dont know if it will come on faster.. ok, I was out tonight.. right off the line I hit 5psi at 3000ish rpms.. it was kinda hard to tell if that was it though.. cause my boost gauge is on my 'A' pillar, so its kinda hard looking there then down at my cluster!!
Im not sure if its less than that or not though.. I hammered the gas off the line (traction control off) (lots of wheel spin too, wet and a little slushy on the roads) but when I hooked up kinda ok, I was hitting 5psi close to 3000rpms.. maybe slightly less. its frigin hard to tell!!!
MrSpace
12-16-2004, 08:48 PM
PSG makes the DTM look bumper
http://www.power-tuning.fr/images/psg_merc1.jpg you can maybe modify it to fit your tastes.
Etienne
Hey man thanks for the ideas with the front kit....i know a few good kit shops so i'l probly get them to make a custom bumper alittle more like the CLK DTM Road car....
If done right the perspex-glass looks good......so maybe i will go that way...
also if you take the head light out you can reach in with a ruler and gauge clearances.......
i noticed a big lose in performance after i put the front bumper back on stopping the cold air to the filter....it felt alot more slugish....so im goin to hack a vent under the light with my grinder today:D
thanks for the info.... i took mine for test last night too, with a boost gauge strapped to my window wiper(il get an A piller mount one day).....boost comes on very quick....I also found it very hard to see what rpm it came on...i found the best way to see was to cruise along in third at 1500rpm then floor it....but it was somewhere around 2-2.5K.....so i guess i didnt do to much damage to the SC lobes...
yeh it would have been great if MB had have made more room for aftermarket mods!!!:D
the pipe that came with the kit is 55mm inside diameter...
alittle bigger than factory.....
it really hasnt made too much differance in lag...
Man Kleemann DK hasn't mailed me back.......do they speak english over there????
after doin alittle more research on our roots type SC,its got a low efficiency(high temp output/high power consumption) when compared to centrefugal and screw type blowers.....
we would be alittle better of with the screw type.
the upsides of the roots are the instant boost for big torque numbers down low and they are easy to match to a specific engine,and being the cheapest of the three
guess thats why MB uses them....
LOL i need turbo.........
Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by MrSpace
PSG makes the DTM look bumper
http://www.power-tuning.fr/images/psg_merc1.jpg you can maybe modify it to fit your tastes.
Etienne
hey thanks....
its alittle extreme....but i guess i could mod it with my grider :D
would be great to have the DTM Flares!.....
MrSpace
12-17-2004, 09:07 PM
you can also go with this
it's a little expensive but..
http://www.albstadt-net.de/lumma/Mercedes/C-Klasse_1.jpg
Etienne
Hey etienne,thanks...Thats alot closer to what im after....who makes this kit??.....
....just found it...LUMMA?...
iv mailed them for a price......
Reagrds,
Paul
MrSpace
12-18-2004, 08:05 PM
yes LUMMA
and the new rieger also has a similar style but with more curves
Etienne
Yeh my crap moniter at home made it hard to read the number plate on that pic!!....
hmm so rieger have a new Kit (for W203?).....guess il check that out too if i can find it...
Thanks.
Regards,
Paul
MrSpace
12-19-2004, 05:53 AM
For W202, not W203
http://www.cls-design.com/rieger_seite.jpg
http://img81.exs.cx/img81/6043/u2tgrill.jpg
http://www.cls-design.com/rieger_front.jpg
http://www.cls-design.com/rieger_standlicht.jpg
it's almost too round for our cars.
Etienne
I hunted everywhere for those pics....guess the were on the rieger site:rolleyes: ,I agree....it is alittle too round,im very keen on the lumma front...
it has enough room for the IC....
Thyanks for the help man...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-12-2005, 05:32 PM
Well I finally got a chance to remove my SC and fab up the intake partially.. I ended up using cardboard.. turned out pretty nice. just gotta but some aluminium now.
sorry no pics.. I dont have my digi cam right now, wont have it back for a couple weeks.
but at least finally Im on my way to making my intake!! I hope to have some aluminium by the latest next week.
hey slammed C!,
Been waiting to hear about you intake!!,
I still havent got on the rollers yet...
but iv been in contact with the owner of that turbo-C,looks like turbo is on the cards in the next few months...
was it a tight fit doin the intake replica???,do you find the bolts take up alot of intake room??
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-12-2005, 06:20 PM
hey slammed C!,
Been waiting to hear about you intake!!,
I still havent got on the rollers yet...
but iv been in contact with the owner of that turbo-C,looks like turbo is on the cards in the next few months...
was it a tight fit doin the intake replica???,do you find the bolts take up alot of intake room??
Man.. get on the rollers!! I want to see what kinda power ur making with the mods!
sweet.. so ur gonna buy the kit from him? is it an easy install to the W202? I want to do turbo on my car too.. that kit just looks really nice.
As for the intake.. it wasnt that hard to do.. guess it took me about 30-40 mins to remove everything, then mocking up the intake to the back of the supercharger wasnt that difficult.. it was a somewhat tight fit in there.. but I removed the stock intake and boost side from the SC and put my cardboard cutout in there and then started taping pipe in!!
it looks rough but I think it will work!!..
I ended up scaning the piece I made with my scanner.. it actually came out.. so here it is....
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_151_full.jpg
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Man.. get on the rollers!! I want to see what kinda power ur making with the mods!
sweet.. so ur gonna buy the kit from him? is it an easy install to the W202? I want to do turbo on my car too.. that kit just looks really nice.
As for the intake.. it wasnt that hard to do.. guess it took me about 30-40 mins to remove everything, then mocking up the intake to the back of the supercharger wasnt that difficult.. it was a somewhat tight fit in there.. but I removed the stock intake and boost side from the SC and put my cardboard cutout in there and then started taping pipe in!!
it looks rough but I think it will work!!..
I ended up scaning the piece I made with my scanner.. it actually came out.. so here it is....
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/266000-266999/266992_151_full.jpg
I Know,next dyno day is 5th Feb!!....Iv got the box out of the car at the moment for a service...should be back in before then.
im currently looking at buying that turbo from him....but am waiting on alittle more info.
OMG,you must have had WAY more room than me!!!Dam so lucky!!!was your engine mount in the way????,after looking up under the car mine misses the steering box buy 5mm...and the engine mount by even less!!
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-12-2005, 06:50 PM
I Know,next dyno day is 5th Feb!!....Iv got the box out of the car at the moment for a service...should be back in before then.
im currently looking at buying that turbo from him....but am waiting on alittle more info.
OMG,you must have had WAY more room than me!!!Dam so lucky!!!was your engine mount in the way????,after looking up under the car mine misses the steering box buy 5mm...and the engine mount by even less!!
cool.. I want to know how ur car does!
really.. will it work with no problems on the W202? I know its meant for the W203 coupe.. but with the M111 engine.
its actually kinda a tight fit with what I have shown you.. the tube that I used for the part that goes on the SC inlet is 3" 45 degree bend aluminium pipe, didnt cut it all all.. just put it straight onto the flange I made from cardboard. Im pretty sure it fit!! wasnt really paying attention to how much room I had around it.. but I know I wasnt touching anything. it seems like what I have built so far will fit.. gotta get it made out of aluminium though and have it tig welded (by my buddy)
everything seems like it will fit so I must have some more room than you did.
the outlet of the supercharger I havent made yet.. but made a template of the mounting point on the SC so I can make a flange for it too. Im concetrating on the inlet side for now though!
What thickness of aluminium did you use? was it 5mm for the base of the flange and 2mm for the rest of the flange?
What you think to my attempt at making the inlet side for the SC?
It should work fine,as long as i dont exceed maximum airflow for the Fuel/ECU/sensors,this is looking to be around ~8 psi(with this turbo).....keeping in mind 8psi on this turbo is more like 11psi on the SC because of efficiency etc...and not driven by belt....which takes around 25HP of your crank at this pressure....although exhaust backpressure will take HP,it is not as much as the SC depending on turbo specs.
stage 1(without ECU/sensor changes) gains of 25 - 40HP should be easy...not alot,but there is better potential.
but im still gaining info.....
kewl sounds like its all goin well....
the flange i used was 5mm,and the rest was 2mm....
great attempt,I had to be alittle more accurate when constructing mine due to the very limited space....
the hardest part will be cutting and bending the alloy to make a good fit.....it will make all the difference to the finished product...
will keep you posted on dyno results...
Regards,
Paul
nukblazi
01-13-2005, 04:17 PM
I am about to embark on a similar journey with my 2002 M111 Motor. Have a vacuum/pressure gauge, some fittings and some vacuum hose. Looking through component lists for Samco race hoses and parts from other kits (WRX, etc.) I am also planning on plaining the NTE value off the bottom of the head, port match the head.
I was very curious to read about the BOV, etc. I've read that recycling the air is most efficient. I am going to reread the thread (long) but what's a summary of what you all have accomplished so far?
Originally posted by nukblazi
I am about to embark on a similar journey with my 2002 M111 Motor. Have a vacuum/pressure gauge, some fittings and some vacuum hose. Looking through component lists for Samco race hoses and parts from other kits (WRX, etc.) I am also planning on plaining the NTE value off the bottom of the head, port match the head.
I was very curious to read about the BOV, etc. I've read that recycling the air is most efficient. I am going to reread the thread (long) but what's a summary of what you all have accomplished so far?
well,this is what iv been doin lately its just an intake and IC system.......but as far as accomplishment.....I guess i wont know until its dyno'd again.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_22_full.jpg
Regards,
Paul
nukblazi
01-13-2005, 07:40 PM
Hey Paul :) I responded to the flywheel thread :)
Club 202 should make an area for 02 Coupe owners. PLEASE!
MrSpace
01-13-2005, 09:45 PM
The turbo kit for the W203 is with teh Siemens injection system, our M111 has the BOSH
do you think it would be different?
He changed injectors on his car, right? could we use those same..
also he his pushing 300+hp, but with a manual tranny that he CAN modify, do you think our trans will handle this or you'll need a C43 trans?
Etienne
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 04:57 AM
Speedwerx is some what ellusive. I've been trying to keep in touch with him though. He did a lot of modifications and the Siemens chip and fuel system is very different. I know not to what exact extent.
I think your best bet is to find out as much as you can about the Mosselman kit for the W202. If and how they modified the ECU, if and how they modified the fuel system.
He and I have the same transmission. In total, mine took 54,000 miles of ABUSE. Clutch drops, speed shifts, all the things I was told would break it, Autocross and track days, 25,000 of the miles were with a 6-puck sprung hub clutch disk, single mass flywheel and S4 pressure plate before I busted the (forgive the lack of the technical term) input shaft.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/transmission-model.jpg
Do W202 M111 manuals have the same transmission as the 6-speed manual in the Sport Coupe?
FYI- I have had a hard time finding someone who is willing to work on the trans. Most people have said that by the time they'd be done, it be cheaper to just have a spare trans lying around.
MrSpace
01-14-2005, 06:23 AM
no the manuals from europe are 5 speed...
I don't know how hard it would be to puta W202 with a manual from a W203...
Etienne
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by MrSpace
no the manuals from europe are 5 speed...
I don't know how hard it would be to puta W202 with a manual from a W203...
Etienne I think that the trans would bolt up. The shift linkage, etc., could be a problem. I have been seeking out a w202 5-speed to test fit into my Sport Coupe.
Having to shift to 3rd during 0-60 blows. And when autocrossing, I wind out 2nd gear. So, in a straight, I end up shifting to third for a very short time (3-4 seconds), then back to 2nd for a turn in.
SLAMMED_C
01-14-2005, 06:39 PM
kewl sounds like its all goin well....
the flange i used was 5mm,and the rest was 2mm....
great attempt,I had to be alittle more accurate when constructing mine due to the very limited space....
the hardest part will be cutting and bending the alloy to make a good fit.....it will make all the difference to the finished product...
yeh luckily for me I could kinda do a hack job for my template!!.. but I also onyl had 3 hours to pull my supercharger, make the templates and put it back together so I could drive home!! considering... that was a pretty good attempt.
yeh Im gonna have fun cutting and bending the alloy.. what did you use to cut it? band saw or scroll saw?
The 6spd from the 2002 C-coupe should bolt right up as the motor is still the M111.. everything should fit.. just a matter of modifying the trans ECU to think it still has an auto in there so no lights are constantly on!
and the manuals from Europe are 5spd.. and absolutly terrible. just feel like garbage.
the 6spd isnt much better.. but an improvement. the best manual is the new 6spd from the M271 engine (05 c-class) really nice.
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 06:50 PM
I haven't driven the '05 but have heard it is much better. Supposedly the linkage is very different, and we, the 02 - 04's can't swap. I dunno.
SLAMMED_C
01-14-2005, 07:12 PM
yeh.. I would have to think that the tranny bolt holes are in a completly different arrangement.. since the motor is different too.
but there are always ways around that!! one way to go is to cut a portion of the bell housing off ur stock tranny and cut the same portion out of the new 6spd.. then weld em up. only problem is making sure everything is square! or just make some sort of adapter ring/flange.
could be a route to go?... all matters on time and money!
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 07:22 PM
We have strayed far from the intake topic, albeit all good stuff. We'll have to see when this trans says mercy. I have a spare, Jeff made some recommendations for hardening the parts. I am going to pursue that avenue soon.
As far as the intake work, I am looking to do what you all have done. I have emails into a couple places that sell Samco stuff. Need to get a new IC too.
*way off-topic, put my 17x8 18lbs Flik Lex wheels on tonight. I love them :D
SLAMMED_C
01-14-2005, 07:36 PM
is that the cryogenic freezing of the parts?
sweet.. what kind of smaco stuff you getting? yeh Im gonna want an intercooler too.. dont know what size to do though.
got a pic of the wheels on ur ride? or just of the wheels?
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 07:45 PM
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44160&stc=1
Something is wrong with the e-brake. It is randomly making a "click" once per rotation of the tire. I backed out each both and checked for scuffing or other evidence of it hitting anything. Nothing. If I put the e-brake on, then pull against it by letting the clutch out, it stops for a little while, then starts again. Happened to me once before, but stopped and hadn't since done it. Sucks.
I'll be taking more pics tomorrow. These things wieght 18lbs compared to the C7s 26 or 27 lbs... You can totally feel the difference. I can't wait to get some 15 ounders on there.
www.edgeracing.com
http://www.edgeracing.com/images/wheel/flik_lex_front_zoom.jpg
http://www.edgeracing.com/images/wheel/flik_lex_angle_zoom.jpg
SLAMMED_C
01-14-2005, 08:06 PM
what grade of aluminium plate should I get to make my flanges out of??.. I have a few options here:
2024-t351 mill finish- heat treatable
6061-t651 " "
7075-t561 " "
3003 bright tread
5086-h34 mill finish tread
6061-t6 " "
I guess a mill finish would be better for flanges.. but what grade?
those rims look pretty nice man.. and light too.. I bet you can feel the difference between the C7's.
cutting rotating mass is a great way to pick up some extra "power". much easier to get moving.
nukblazi
01-14-2005, 08:13 PM
I am not sure. I was looking to cut all the alum and plastic out for the silicon. Specifically for it's heat resistance.
I'd look at some of the better kits that exist for other vehicles, then see if you can figure which grades they are using.
Hey slammed C,
yeh it makes it alittle hard when you have that little time.....
lol...I really have no idea what grade of alloy i got....the one i had was pretty easy to bend,and that was a good thing!...
I used a jig saw and the use of alittle cutting oil makes all the difference...
also i bought a rotary grinder kit which made a great job of the inside where the welds come through...
lol this thread may as well be suspension-body-mods-partially performance.....:D :D :D
Regards,
Paul
hey slammed C,
did your intake look like this one??....So restictive,notice the left portion cutting off the air flow!....
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_28_full.jpg
also here is another way of doin the template,then using thin plastic to bend and make up the side templates....but alittle more time is needed......
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_29_full.jpg
SLAMMED_C
01-16-2005, 06:23 PM
hey 23K:
yep.. thats exactly what my SC intake looks like.. I know its so restrictive.
I noticed on your intake that you built.. you installed a splitter (like in the stock piece) that divides the SC inlet into 2 portions.. any reasoning for keeping it?, is it needed like in the factory piece?
Nice work with your templates and wire frame.. looks really slick.. just wish I had enough time to do somethings as detailed as that.
well I hope to have my aluminium sheet by the end of the week.. so you should see some progress from me soon!
MrSpace
01-16-2005, 08:55 PM
slammed, did you check if we had more place to bake a bigger SC inlet because of LHD cars (his car is RHD)
Etienne
Hey Slammed C,
thanks...,
I think because of the steep angle at which it enters the SC,it may have been better to split the flow so that the center portion of the lobs got alittle more airflow,but its only a guess,and the fact that the factory one had it installed for possibly a good reason.....
But i see there is no need for it in your application because of the nice bend your able to fit in there!!!:) ....
some of the ups of having a left hand drive!!........also supersprint dont make a header for right hand drive.....theres no room,enough for a three inch of a turbo though;) ....
Kewl let us know how it goes....
Regards,
Paul
Dang....the gear box factory just called and said there waiting on new bearings.....three weeks from germany:rolleyes:....
I was like....have you heard of air frieght??.........
Sorry man no dyno run till i have a transmission.....
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-20-2005, 03:25 PM
Damn.... well I can wait!
still no progress on the intake.. gotta get to this metal store. but its only open till 5.. I finish work at 5!!
sooooooooooon.... I will have some more progress to report.
lol progress is slow huh.......
money's holding me back alittle/alot....gear box now costing $1100+ for a fresh'n up,it just needed new seals and bearings...
I was going to attempt it myself but got steered away by an MB mechanic.....
i was lucky my job was flexible enough to allow time to get alloy and have it welded in about 30 different stages...saved alot of time and $$......
hey i was thinking with your boost kit,is the SC whine much louder than before??,was just thinking how loud it will be with the intake!......mines pretty loud already...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-20-2005, 08:23 PM
yeh.. real slow progress!!
man I wish I had another car so I could leave this apart and do things with more accuracy!
oh well, gotta make due.
either friday or sat Im picking up the aluminium.
wow.. what the hell you do to your tranny?!! how much of the $1100 is parts?
I think you could handle doing it yourself.. just look at what you've done to your car!
Yeh.. compared to stock, there is more whine with my Kleemann kit.. and since you just said that you have lots with the intake.. that just makes me happy.. I was hoping to have more whine with my intake! what about the sucking noise of air being drawn in?.. or is it all SC whine?
Man I cant wait!!!!
....another car definately helps!...
Well....it all started with a sqeek coming from the gearbox area,
so i dropped the box on a mission to find the noise......
so it turns out the seals on the selector arms are leaking.....and it appears the thrust bearing and clutch arm have been making the noise.....
thanks...but i started to pull the box apart,but couldnt get the big nut of the drive shaft,like usual i needed a special tool:rolleyes:
so i send it in to the gearbox factory with a quote of $500 to pull down and check.....
but as usual they want to replace bearings,gaskets and seals....
another $600.....lol oh well Im almost used to getting ripped...
I would like to have said there is some kewl sucking noise.....but its all whine!!.....
I very much prefer the vaccum noise.....
but it sounds like your after loud man.....im very sure thats what you will get:)
hey are you venting the by-pass??.....it will sound good with your extra pressure....
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-21-2005, 01:12 PM
LOL.. I hear ya.. damn special tools! otherwise Im sure you could manage it.
isnt it great how things just snowball!!.. hell they certainly like spending your money for you!!
Nice.. I think Ill be happy with the SC whine!!.. do you get lots of people looking around when u drove your car? wondering what the hell that was?
And I will be venting my bypass valve to atmosphere. what size of a K&N filter did you use to mount onto the bypass valve? Im going to make a flange for the SC boost side also, and also replace the stock intercooler with something custom.
did you notice any less boost pressure compared to stock, with the larger diameter pipes on for the boost side of the intake, and larger intercooler?
and good news... I GOT MY ALUMINIUM SHEET from the metal shop today. now I can start making the flanges for real!!
Im going to work on them on the weekend.. hope to have something relatively finished early next week and welded up not too much after!
CKlasse
01-21-2005, 07:35 PM
Just wondering... why do you fab' the cone flange the hard way. Cone flange can be fab' at any metal shop which costs nearly nothing.
The same cone swedger is commonly used to make WRX turbo downpipe, or any kind of odd shape (oval, octagon, etc) metal/alloy piping.
I ll try to snap some picts when I am back at the shop on Monday.
CKlasse
01-21-2005, 07:36 PM
Here is just a sample off our website..
http://www.budsmuffler.com/ken/coneflange.jpg
Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
LOL.. I hear ya.. damn special tools! otherwise Im sure you could manage it.
isnt it great how things just snowball!!.. hell they certainly like spending your money for you!!
Nice.. I think Ill be happy with the SC whine!!.. do you get lots of people looking around when u drove your car? wondering what the hell that was?
And I will be venting my bypass valve to atmosphere. what size of a K&N filter did you use to mount onto the bypass valve? Im going to make a flange for the SC boost side also, and also replace the stock intercooler with something custom.
did you notice any less boost pressure compared to stock, with the larger diameter pipes on for the boost side of the intake, and larger intercooler?
and good news... I GOT MY ALUMINIUM SHEET from the metal shop today. now I can start making the flanges for real!!
Im going to work on them on the weekend.. hope to have something relatively finished early next week and welded up not too much after!
Yeh man The SC basicly stays engaged all the time except at standstill.....so i get loads of people looking...like WTF you dont see or hear that from a benz every day!!............
I will hunt around for the K&N part number,the filter i used was a tight fit,but it worked...you can also look up dimentions on K&Ns web,they also show pics for most of there filters....
There are two ways of mounting the by-pass......i reversed the direction of flow on mine,this ment making a flange to weld to the IC piping...then the K&N fitted straight up to the by-pass....
I guess you will be leaving the by-pass in its current position for now??....
if so then you will need to construct a flange+pipe to attach the filter..
then maybe later on you may want to reverse it and use the same flange to weld to your new ic piping...,its alittle more tidy this way due to less hose clamps etc
I think there was very little pressure drop if any....which was a relief....but this will have to be proven on the dyno i think!....
great,some progress!!!,good luck with the works....
Regards,
Paul
Originally posted by CKlasse
Just wondering... why do you fab' the cone flange the hard way. Cone flange can be fab' at any metal shop which costs nearly nothing.
The same cone swedger is commonly used to make WRX turbo downpipe, or any kind of odd shape (oval, octagon, etc) metal/alloy piping.
I ll try to snap some picts when I am back at the shop on Monday.
Hey man....
yeh that way can work well too...where im from it would have cost alot for metal shops to construct my intake due to the limited space...
and i enjoy the challenge as well...
also i see where your comming from on the hex shape,i could also have made it with a pre-pressed cone shape and welded a pipe to the end....but i couldnt find anyone who produced alloy cones...only stainless etc
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-22-2005, 09:22 PM
Yeh man The SC basicly stays engaged all the time except at standstill.....so i get loads of people looking...like WTF you dont see or hear that from a benz every day!!............
I will hunt around for the K&N part number,the filter i used was a tight fit,but it worked...you can also look up dimentions on K&Ns web,they also show pics for most of there filters....
There are two ways of mounting the by-pass......i reversed the direction of flow on mine,this ment making a flange to weld to the IC piping...then the K&N fitted straight up to the by-pass....
I guess you will be leaving the by-pass in its current position for now??....
if so then you will need to construct a flange+pipe to attach the filter..
then maybe later on you may want to reverse it and use the same flange to weld to your new ic piping...,its alittle more tidy this way due to less hose clamps etc
I think there was very little pressure drop if any....which was a relief....but this will have to be proven on the dyno i think!....
great,some progress!!!,good luck with the works....
Regards,
Paul
lol.. yeh I cant wait to hear this! I wonder if this will get me too much attention!!
great.. thanks man.. it doesnt look like thats a very big filter!
hmm.. looks like a good idea to me, reversing the bypass would make it very tidey looking.
and as for now I will have to run it facing the right way with the stock rubber hose connecting it to the SC outlet (boost side) pipe, until I fab up a pipe for that also.
so I will have to make up a flange to bolt to the bypass and then put the filter on that. not the nicest looking, but for now it will have to do.
progress will continue when I get some blades for my jigsaw.. gotta go out today and buy some!!
and I will take some pics too.. I have my digi camera back.
CKlasse
01-23-2005, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by 23K
Hey man....
yeh that way can work well too...where im from it would have cost alot for metal shops to construct my intake due to the limited space...
and i enjoy the challenge as well...
also i see where your comming from on the hex shape,i could also have made it with a pre-pressed cone shape and welded a pipe to the end....but i couldnt find anyone who produced alloy cones...only stainless etc
Regards,
Paul
Gimme the alloy, and I'll cone press it for you! :)
Originally posted by CKlasse
Gimme the alloy, and I'll cone press it for you! :)
LOL your only on the other side of the world:D.....to me anyways,
would have been nice though!...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-23-2005, 01:37 PM
23K:
How did you run the stock PCV system?.. the hose that comes off the valve cover.. where did you attach it to? make a fitting to go onto the intake tube?
also have you done any testing with a bored out stock MAS, or try using a MAS from a M112/113 motor? would there be any troubles due to the larger diameter of the MAS itself? incorrect readings given by the MAS to the fuel computer?
What size of intake tube did you use for the boost side? 2"?
Thanks..
Hey yeh the HKS filter i had has a screw in pipe on one side,so the pipe coming out of the seperator was just extended down to the filter.....Ill post a pic tomorrow...
as for the small tapping of the SC to the separator....iv just blocked it off for now....
when i find time:) i wil install a catch can with return to the sump...
I havnt played with the MAS yet,Im not sure if that would make any difference on this forced induction engine unless we ran alot higher HP?.....
the pipe i used is about 2 1/4'' i think......i posted the exact size somwhere in this thread.......Ill check it tonight...
Regards,
Paul
SLAMMED_C
01-25-2005, 05:04 PM
Yeh thabks.. I wondered where you would run that hose to?!.. I figured t the intake pipe since it was on the stock air box.. but do I want to block off the flow of air to it so its not getting so much forced air?
I have an extra MAS from an M112/113 motor.. was thinking of using that housing (since its larger in diameter) and putting my stock MAS sensor into it. this way I will have the larger pipe and not shrink down to a smaller MAS tube.
and I dont know if it will do anything either..
Yeh i guess there will be less air flow.....im fairly sure the added airflow was to ensure oil didnt sit inside the separator and gradual clog it up.....but im not to worried as this should take ages and i should have a can made up buy then i hope:).....
im not to sure about the mass......i know that it is very close to the same size tube as the casting on top of your butterfly....
so there may be no gain in flow?........
Ill also have a look into it tonight.....
Regards.
Paul
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