lightening flywheels

[Pagz]

Hey guys,
Im dropping my trans soon to replace the thrust bearing... and thought i would have the flywheel lightened while its all apart...
so im just wondering how much lighter to go without sacrificing idle quality.....
I read in a few Performance mod books that said 30% lighter "should'nt" effect idle on most cars....
Has anyone had theres machined on there M111??....
any wieght specs would be good;)

Regards,
Paul

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by 23K
Has anyone had theres machined on there M111??....
any wieght specs would be good;)
Talk to this guy. (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2845)

[Pagz]

Thanks man,Yeh i read that before i posted.....I'll mail him about weight....
I would like to have the factory one machined lighter,its alot cheaper!!;)

so i guess not many here have had this done??...

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

It's cheaper but can lead to problems :)

Ever seen what happens a flywheel explodes?

[Pagz]

Yeh iv heard stories.....(rotor engine flywheels)
now that i have the box out and taken a look at the wheel,
it dosent look like it could be machined without sacrifice....
I didnt know benz had that dampning setup either....

Nukblazi,
do you have an aftermarket Flywheel??

Regards,
paul

[nukblazi]

I do have one. It's a single mass unit. You feel more vibration from the removal of the dual-mass (dampening device). The flywheel is made by Unorthodix Racing.

I used it for about 25k. Then my trans blew. ($1100 from Potomac German Auto). I attribute this to the 6 puck clutch disk. It was a little over kill, but very very nice to use. UR has released a "Sectional-Ceramic" disk that offers close grip characteristics, but without the abuse of the 6-puck.

The motor comes to life with this unit. The Dyno from after I installed it is posted if you follow the link. But the quicker revs, and feel was amazing.

The unit is out of the car for now, I am waiting on a new clutch disk and pressure plate from UR.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by nukblazi
I do have one. It's a single mass unit. You feel more vibration from the removal of the dual-mass (dampening device). The flywheel is made by Unorthodix Racing.

I used it for about 25k. Then my trans blew. ($1100 from Potomac German Auto). I attribute this to the 6 puck clutch disk. It was a little over kill, but very very nice to use. UR has released a "Sectional-Ceramic" disk that offers close grip characteristics, but without the abuse of the 6-puck.

The motor comes to life with this unit. The Dyno from after I installed it is posted if you follow the link. But the quicker revs, and feel was amazing.

The unit is out of the car for now, I am waiting on a new clutch disk and pressure plate from UR.

Thomas,
hey yeh thanks for the info, i checked out there site....
looks like some fine parts they make...
how much more vibration does it make?,all my cars so far have had single mass units and very little vibration.
I have mailed them on a price etc....
also i see you have also had the Kleemann flywheel??or am i getting confused?....

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

UR made the flywheel for Kleemann. If I am not mistaken, Brandon modified the flywheel from UR, this is why they required a core exchange.

I'd give Brandon a call at (719) 473-6441 to confirm.


I changed my trans fluid to a german oil (forget the name, popular with M3's running lwt flywheels), 0w85 I think. I can find out for you. It resolved the vibration issue, which I wouldn't call an issue really. The 6-puck clutch induces a great amount of force on the trans, the semi-ceramic is supposed to eliminate that (solid clutch disk).

I love the mod. Even if the 6-puck was the only alternative, A used tranny from Potomac every 25k miles is worth it in my opinion. Off the line, with this clutch/flywheel and Toyo 235 RA-1 (R-Compound tires), I can maintain next to a WRX. (Factor in the drive train losses in AWD e.g., 35%+) The pulley I have is all HP, but the performance difference with the clutch is amazing. You know how the motor bogs above 5k RPM? Throttle matching the shifts is easier and faster. Off the line is much faster, and you can drive further into the corners before downshifting, because of the rotational mass reduction. I can't say enough about the mod.

Unorthodox Racings number is (631) 586-9525. The guy to ask for is Shawn. Reference the flywheel and clutch they made for Brandon at Kleemann USA. He also knows the current unit is in my car. Their gathering the info for the parts for me to update to the semi-ceramic.

[Pagz]

Hey Nukblazi,
Thanks for the info man.....
sounds like this mod is really worth doing!!..
im still waiting on an e-mail from UR,it may be best to call....
so currently you do have to have the 6-puck....if possible i would like a full faced clutch.....when did they say the ceramic clutch may be avalible to you??....

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey Nukblazi,
Thanks for the info man.....
sounds like this mod is really worth doing!!..
im still waiting on an e-mail from UR,it may be best to call....
so currently you do have to have the 6-puck....if possible i would like a full faced clutch.....when did they say the ceramic clutch may be avalible to you??....

Regards,
Paul I don't know what you use your car for (street only, autocross, track days, 1/4 mile) but I used it through the winter and everything. I love it, and would highly recommended for anyone who's as into HOW their car drives as I am.

I had the 6-puck, I want the sectional-ceramic too. I was told 9/04 it'd be done by 11/04. I only called back to order it last week. I am waiting on a call back myself. I am going to follow-up on Monday.

Yes, definately call and ask for Sean. (Spelt it wrong before.)

[Pagz]

Hey nukblazi,
I contacted shawn,and after discussing prices etc i did the math and its goin to cost well over $4000NZD for me to do this mod......so sadly it will have to wait in line on the mods list.....
but in the mean time.....if you somehow decide not to put it back in the car ill be glad to take it:DLOL

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey nukblazi,
I contacted shawn,and after discussing prices etc i did the math and its goin to cost well over $4000NZD for me to do this mod......so sadly it will have to wait in line on the mods list.....
but in the mean time.....if you somehow decide not to put it back in the car ill be glad to take it:DLOL

Regards,
Paul Hey there-

I might have a new trick up my sleeve. If it happens, I will let you know first if I put it up for sale.

[Pagz]

Hey,
great!!!,well let me know...;)

[Pagz]

Hey Nukblazi,
Is there any chance you could post a pic of that flywheel while its off the car??...
also would you have the part number of your OEM flywheel??...
just asking because shawn asked if there was any difference in the OEM flywheels between yours and mine....

and was there any increase in vibration from the engine with the new flywheel???....
iv heard of people increasing flywheel wieght to reduce vibration...

Rgrds,
Paul

[albanianbenz]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey nukblazi,
I contacted shawn,and after discussing prices etc i did the math and its goin to cost well over $4000NZD for me to do this mod......so sadly it will have to wait in line on the mods list.....
but in the mean time.....if you somehow decide not to put it back in the car ill be glad to take it:DLOL

Regards,
Paul

What does that come out to in dollars
is this for manual trans or auto or both

[nukblazi]

I can snap some shots of the flywheel a bit later. It's dirty as hell and wrapped up now. Brandon had said that it would fit all manual M111's. I don't know the OEM units P/N, but I can look for it. You're best bet is to give KLeemann USA a call.

There is a increase in vibration. The dual-mass OEM flywheel is like the guibo on the drive shaft. It is there to reduce driveline vibration. The solution is a heavy gear oil in the transmission. The vibration is a small compromise for the benefit of this mod.

In USD, it equates to about $1500 dollars. This is for manuals onlys.

Tom


Here's a dyno, this compares stock to flywheel. No other mods.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=479122

This is just the flywheel run-

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=479124

[Pagz]

Hey,thats a very impressive gain for such an easy mod....
iv just got my box back and i really dont want to put it all back together till i do somthing about that flywheel!!

I did ask shawn wheather the flywheel would fit...but im thinking you have the 6-speed,maybe there is some difference....

But i will contact kleemann USA for more info...
Thanks Man

Rgrds,
Paul

Ps have you got your full face clutch plate yet??

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey,thats a very impressive gain for such an easy mod....
iv just got my box back and i really dont want to put it all back together till i do somthing about that flywheel!!

I did ask shawn wheather the flywheel would fit...but im thinking you have the 6-speed,maybe there is some difference....

But i will contact kleemann USA for more info...
Thanks Man

Rgrds,
Paul

Ps have you got your full face clutch plate yet?? Next time I am in Jersey I will take some measurements off my spare trans. The M111 block never changed. So, you would have to assume it'll fit. As a side bit, I paid only $1100 for a 6-speed from Potomac German Auto dot com. Why not go for the 6-speed swap while you're in there?

[Pagz]

I have considered the swap but havent seen the need for it yet...apart from the fact the five speed is alittle slow between gears...but iv just had it refreshed so this my help that situation...

Hey can you use the OEM pressure or clutch plate on this flywheel??....

Rgards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
I have considered the swap but havent seen the need for it yet...apart from the fact the five speed is alittle slow between gears...but iv just had it refreshed so this my help that situation...

Hey can you use the OEM pressure or clutch plate on this flywheel??....

Rgards,
Paul You could but... I had gone into detail about this on my original thread but basically hear me roar-

I learned to drive stick in my father's 1969 Chevy Chevelle 396 SS. The clutch in that is a work out. That said, I freaking HATE the new manual clutches. They are mush, very little feedback in terms of friction, catch, whatever you want to call it.

Having said that, the Heavy Duty pressure plate personally was my favorite part of this mod, besides the slipless 4k clutch drops and the smell of my new Toyo RA-1s. It brought the car to life, and it was an utter shock to other C-Coupe owners, to quote Tommy of MBWorld and MBKlasse, "Wow."

It makes a big difference and I believe you would not get the same effect, sure, confident engagement between your motor and transmission. Yes, I snapped an input shaft, like I said, I like 4k clutch drops, so this was no surprise, and besides this, MB transmissions are supposedly very weak in these cars.

To put this into perspective, a stock STi could not get the 2 -3 or 4 car lengths off the line after this mod, with the stock clutch a STi was gone. The stock unit presented major slip under hard launches. I had 23k on mine and the friction plate had serious scorching and many signs of "hot spots". Not good. "you smell something?"

Before someone rants about STi's smoking the coupe, no doubt, but take into consideration the AWD parasitic loss factors (<45% in some cases) and me having a K23 alloy pulley, this flywheel, and DOT racing tires (Toyo RA-1s). In the end the STi pulled away from me every time, but off the line look on their face was a kin to the first time a chick receives the "shocker". Learn to launch right with this thing and you will scare the locals for sure.

I have to give Sean a call tomorrow. Need to get a new unit before March.

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
I have considered the swap but havent seen the need for it yet...apart from the fact the five speed is alittle slow between gears...but iv just had it refreshed so this my help that situation... I was going to back date to the 5-speed to get to 60mph in 2 gears not three (autocrossing you rarely see third gear) until I drove an SLK 5-speed. Blah.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by nukblazi
I was going to back date to the 5-speed to get to 60mph in 2 gears not three (autocrossing you rarely see third gear) until I drove an SLK 5-speed. Blah.

Yeh i know what you mean!!....

[Pagz]

Originally posted by nukblazi
You could but... I had gone into detail about this on my original thread but basically hear me roar-

I learned to drive stick in my father's 1969 Chevy Chevelle 396 SS. The clutch in that is a work out. That said, I freaking HATE the new manual clutches. They are mush, very little feedback in terms of friction, catch, whatever you want to call it.

Having said that, the Heavy Duty pressure plate personally was my favorite part of this mod, besides the slipless 4k clutch drops and the smell of my new Toyo RA-1s. It brought the car to life, and it was an utter shock to other C-Coupe owners, to quote Tommy of MBWorld and MBKlasse, "Wow."

It makes a big difference and I believe you would not get the same effect, sure, confident engagement between your motor and transmission. Yes, I snapped an input shaft, like I said, I like 4k clutch drops, so this was no surprise, and besides this, MB transmissions are supposedly very weak in these cars.

To put this into perspective, a stock STi could not get the 2 -3 or 4 car lengths off the line after this mod, with the stock clutch a STi was gone. The stock unit presented major slip under hard launches. I had 23k on mine and the friction plate had serious scorching and many signs of "hot spots". Not good. "you smell something?"

Before someone rants about STi's smoking the coupe, no doubt, but take into consideration the AWD parasitic loss factors (<45% in some cases) and me having a K23 alloy pulley, this flywheel, and DOT racing tires (Toyo RA-1s). In the end the STi pulled away from me every time, but off the line look on their face was a kin to the first time a chick receives the "shocker". Learn to launch right with this thing and you will scare the locals for sure.

I have to give Sean a call tomorrow. Need to get a new unit before March.

all in all im just after a mild increase in performance.....
hence i dont see a reason to have a puck clutch etc....
my second to last car was an evo....the benz is a huge downgrade in performance....but then again this is not why i purchased it....
i like to go the whole mile but i cant afford to replace the trans and other parts repeatedly....
i guess if your loaded no probs:):)

Rgrds,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
all in all im just after a mild increase in performance.....
hence i dont see a reason to have a puck clutch etc....
my second to last car was an evo....the benz is a huge downgrade in performance....but then again this is not why i purchased it....
i like to go the whole mile but i cant afford to replace the trans and other parts repeatedly....
i guess if your loaded no probs:):)

Rgrds,
Paul Oh, FYI- the clutch disk comes with the pressure plate anyhow. And the sectional ceramic disk will provide a close match to the puck, without the destruction.

Loaded, please, I have to beg my fiance not to leave me every time I do something to the car. The new trans was only $1100 USD shipped. Not bad really.

I think you'd appreciate the driveablity of the car with the mod. It fells 5x more impactful then the dyno shows. Wish you were stateside.

[Pagz]

lol....finance and cars have to be the worst two put together!!!....

shawn quoted 1500 for the flywheel and 1000 for the pressure plate and clutch,is this what you paid?

Yea im along way away man!!.......

Rgrds,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
lol....finance and cars have to be the worst two put together!!!....

shawn quoted 1500 for the flywheel and 1000 for the pressure plate and clutch,is this what you paid?

Yea im along way away man!!.......

Rgrds,
Paul In USD? He quoted me 9 for the clutch and pressure plate. I already have the flywheel. But to my understanding, the whole unit would only be $1500-1600 USD.

[Pagz]

He quoted me $1500 USD for the flywheel with core change,
then i asked did that include the clutch??....and he said that it would cost an extra $1000 USD....

$2500USD = $3578.90NZD
+ shipping/tax/custom clearances...
so its well over $4000....
so im searching for ways to cut this down.....

Rgrds,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
He quoted me $1500 USD for the flywheel with core change,
then i asked did that include the clutch??....and he said that it would cost an extra $1000 USD....

$2500USD = $3578.90NZD
+ shipping/tax/custom clearances...
so its well over $4000....
so im searching for ways to cut this down.....

Rgrds,
Paul Originally it was $1500 for the whole thing including core exchange. Maybe you miss understood? I know the clutch/pressure plate was quoted to me for $825 today.

[Pagz]

hey nukblazi,
Im still considering this flywheel and is your engine an 1800??
would a difference in displacement mean a difference in flywheel wieght??.....

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Mine is a 2.3l, M111 just like yours. I should be ordering my new clutch soon. The season is upon us.

[Pagz]

i just obtained the part numbers for the flywheel on my w202 C230K...1110304005

and the number for yours being 1110306405....

also was your OEM unit the dual mass type?,
under my part number it said dual mass type...but not under yours......

so i guess the difference in part numbers must mean somthing??
i dont really have any way of comparing because there is no spare flywheels off a new c-class in this country.....

also the different engine displacments have different flywheel numbers

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Something sounds screwy... I have the 2.3, no difference in displacement between you and I.

My stock unit was daul mass. The lwt flywheel is a single mass.

[Pagz]

correct,there is no difference in displacement between you and i...
but the part numbers are different...
so there must be some difference in our flywheels....i guess i will need to obtain pics or find someone with there OEM flywheel out of the car to compare....
the only difference i can see is yours uses the 6-speed box?.....

also the numbers are different for the other types of engine size avaliable...ie 1800 etc...so displacement does make a difference in flywheel wieght etc...but that isnt the issue...

thanks..
Paul

[nukblazi]

Originally posted by 23K
correct,there is no difference in displacement between you and i...
but the part numbers are different...
so there must be some difference in our flywheels....i guess i will need to obtain pics or find someone with there OEM flywheel out of the car to compare....
the only difference i can see is yours uses the 6-speed box?.....

also the numbers are different for the other types of engine size avaliable...ie 1800 etc...so displacement does make a difference in flywheel wieght etc...but that isnt the issue...

thanks..
Paul Yeah, now I am concerned though that there may be a mix up in the parts. Brandon had said the same flywheel fit all, all M111s. This makes sense to me.

[Pagz]

im hoping there is a mixup in part numbers!!!...
il ring a few more MB suppliers and qoute these numbers too find out....

Regards,
Paul

[Pagz]

im hoping there is a mixup in part numbers!!!...
il ring a few more MB suppliers and qoute these numbers too find out....

Regards,
Paul

[Pagz]

hey i contacted brandon at KleemannUSA and he said there is a difference in part numbers...so the part is different in some way...
man i want a lighter flywheel!!!....and custom is very pricey according to UR..

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

Dang... I have to apologize for relaying false (mis)information. I am sorry.

[Pagz]

hey no worries man,
iv mailed UR again to see if they will give me some dimensions etc on the flywheel they made you...then maybe i can compare and see if we can mod it to suit...

Regards,
Paul

[Pagz]

well UR wont leak me any info on the dimensions...
they said send it to them and they will decide weather it will work or not....lol that is like taking a gamble with $400 frieght from NZ!...

I guess i could ask if you might be able to take some dimensions of the flywheel while its out of your car??

Regards,
Paul

[nukblazi]

I should be putting the UR unit back in shortly... at least within the next month.

As soon as it is out, I will do the dimensions.

Tom

[Pagz]

awsome,thanks tom...

Rgrds,
Paul

[c280nz]

I am keen to do this to my c280.
But this seems very confusing, with that dampner etc.
Can you not just get a replica made out of aluminium to replace the standard without dampening.
I may investigate this option^