2.8 i6 Displacement Up project

[mayagman]

Hey guys, I've been looking around for someone who has experience with this, but have come up dry.

I'm looking to keep the car N/A for now, I've heard rumors that the block of the 2.8 is the same block as the AMG 3.6... Is there any base to this? I'm interested in having my displacement increased by cylinder boring, and I'd like to know the feesable limit to keep it reliable and safe. I would like to get at least 3.2 out of the stock block, but I'm not sure how resiliant the walls are. As for the stroke.. I'm not so sure I want to change that.

And just for kicks... what do you think would be more costly in the long-run. As far as initial investment and upkeep.
A) A good supercharger/turbo kit?
B) A good N/A displacement up

[Fantasmweb]

[QUOTE][i] I've heard rumors that the block of the 2.8 is the same block as the AMG 3.6...
it is not rumors ......it is ture

[Denlasoul]

Yes the 3.6 is a bored out 2.8 block. I am not sure if the tranny are different between the C36 and the C280, if they are then you are bettern off buying an engine, tranny and ecu.

[vbrock1137]

I'm sure it'd be cheaper to trade for a C36, plus you get all the extra goodies that come with.:D

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
Yes the 3.6 is a bored out 2.8 block. I am not sure if the tranny are different between the C36 and the C280, if they are then you are bettern off buying an engine, tranny and ecu.

actually, 3.6 is not bored( well, maybe just 1 or 2mm), but stroked 2.8 or 3.2. 89mm bore is the safest you can go with 104 block, which is what these two blocks have, so 3.6 is just a longer stroke 3.2. I had a 3.2 in my C280, it was a transplant from a 1995 E320. this upgrade is a good power addon, but the only downside, in my opinion, is that the low rpm range is slower reving(due to longer stroke), but the middle and top ranges are much better. as for the supercharger, do a search under POWERDYNE and read my post on supercharging a I6 C280.

nenad

[mayagman]

Thank you all for your insight. I'll be investigating this and will post my findings, if any.

[Ashkan's C280]

talk to speedy benz, he was planning to do a complete rebuild of his c43 using all new parts, forged pistons, bored, headers, and all that good stuff, and he was planning on talking to specific companies I believe, which would make it better than just hvaing the OEMs bored, not sure if he went through with it, but I'm pretty sure he'd be happy to help out...

[Ashkan's C280]

but being bored to 3.8 would take the c280 to 300hp, and I think with forged pistons, polish, headers, some kind of CAI, and high flow cats and exhaust, I wouldn't see why it couldn't reach 350, but something would have to be done to the tranny, I', sure it would blow at 350, well does anyone know what the c280's tranny is rated to?

[mayagman]

Well, ive heard rumors in the 360s area.. I've also heard this tranny is a cherry because its the same exact unit used in the 'big iron' of the benz lineup. While im not sure as to the validity of these rumors, I can say that if I were doing all this work, and had it up in the 350s, I'd just go all the way and get an import 5-speed. I would really like to stay with an inline six, however, end result, I want about 250 at the crank. Theres no bolt-ons for this car that facilitate that. I'd also not like to extend the stroke any, but if I have to, then that's what I'll do. If c36 swaps werent so damn hard to come by I'd just do that.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
but being bored to 3.8 would take the c280 to 300hp, and I think with forged pistons, polish, headers, some kind of CAI, and high flow cats and exhaust, I wouldn't see why it couldn't reach 350, but something would have to be done to the tranny, I', sure it would blow at 350, well does anyone know what the c280's tranny is rated to?

you would have to use the internals from a 1992-1995 E500 tranny if you have a pre 96 c-class. for the newer ones, you will most likely have to use the internals or the whole tranny from a 1996 up to 2000 E430, E55, S430, or S500.

[jnolte]

All this talk about engines makes me dream, a super fast I-6 is awsome but i have only one thing to say. This project is going to cost MAJOR bucks, you are going to spend far more than the car is ever worth and may not be the best idea if it is your daily driver. To say is one thing but to acually take your car somewhere and dish out the cash to get the engine mods done is another...

I have heard so much talk about this topic, realistically it is cheaper to buy a c36 or c43... and more reliable.

I want to see someone acually do these mods, not talk about it like they will. Talk is cheap.... *cough* ashkan *cough*

but good luck with it!

;)

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by jnolte

I want to see someone acually do these mods, not talk about it like they will.

Jnolte, I had the powerdyne bd-11 supercharger w/ 9psi boost on my 1997 328is, stock engine, no n/a tuning. It cost me about $1500 for the S/C head unit, and I had to get the piping and brackets custom fab'd, which cost me about $400, $40 for an open end cone filter, the exhaust was already tuned with remus muffler and no cat, I tuned the ECU with shark injector($350), and I installed a 4bar FPR($100) and a spearco water injection system($300), so there was no need for an intercooler, and I installed everything myself. So as you can see it cost me well under $3k and 11hrs of my time to install it all. the car dynoed at around 270whp, adjusted for 25% drivetrain loss, that would be about 335hp at the crank. I am sure that if I had the ecu custom tuned, I would have easily gained another 20 or so horses at the crank.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

I was making a reference to speedy's post about his NA build...

[stox]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the crank for the C36 is from the 350SD? Quite possibly one of the worst engines Mercedes has ever made.

[jnolte]

Originally posted by jnenad16
Jnolte, I had the powerdyne bd-11 supercharger w/ 9psi boost on my 1997 328is, stock engine, no n/a tuning. It cost me about $1500 for the S/C head unit, and I had to get the piping and brackets custom fab'd, which cost me about $400, $40 for an open end cone filter, the exhaust was already tuned with remus muffler and no cat, I tuned the ECU with shark injector($350), and I installed a 4bar FPR($100) and a spearco water injection system($300), so there was no need for an intercooler, and I installed everything myself. So as you can see it cost me well under $3k and 11hrs of my time to install it all. the car dynoed at around 270whp, adjusted for 25% drivetrain loss, that would be about 335hp at the crank. I am sure that if I had the ecu custom tuned, I would have easily gained another 20 or so horses at the crank.

nenad

sweet, how long did you have this for? any problems?

[CKlasse]

To answer the original post, there gotta be a local reputable racing /engine shop in your area. Set an appointment, and have them give you an estimate.

At least they can give you some of the basic answers you are looking for.

Good luck.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by jnolte
sweet, how long did you have this for? any problems?
I had the car for about a year, S/C for 9 months. Did not have any problems, except for the O2 sensors going bad after 2 months( this could have been due to a lack of cat), and after that it was all good. the car ran like a cheetah, It was so quick, and the fastest I got It to was 150mph, but thats because I ran out of road. but like I said, I didnt have the ecu custom tuned, which I should have. the reason I sold it is because my dad was like, the bimmers are not safe, especially yours since Its too fast now, sell it and keep your C280, blah blah blah, and I ended up selling it. big mistake. although I loved my C280, it never had the same drivability as my bimmer did, that car was just made for racing.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

but your c280 can be made into a raceing car though...

[jnolte]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
but your c280 can be made into a raceing car though...

the w202 is lacking the handling capabilities, not as much a drivers car as a bimmer. I love benz though, BMW and benz have alot of similarites and diffrences.

But sorry for making the thread off topic.

[speedybenz]

I still think that if you go the USA tuner route using JE, Wiseco, etc pistons and Comp., Crane or Web cams, some lighter valves for upping the rpm and a little head work plus some good headers and you are going to make some Hp for around that $3000 mark. You can gain some stroke by having the crank ground in an offset on the rod journals to match the Honda sized bearings as some of the Racing V8 builders are doing.

Just my opinion, but I have built several engines doing the above and it can work out real well.

Jeff

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
but your c280 can be made into a raceing car though...

yes, it can. read my other posts on using the same supercharger on C280. you can find some of them on bnzsport.com as well.

nenad