to supercharge a 4.3L or do a 5.5L AMG upgrade?

[98c43amg]

[let's try again ... perhaps the 3rd repost's the charm...:confused: ]
I was contacted on the availability of a low mileage 5.5L AMG engine out of a 2000 E55. Mileage seems way low ... but if it's true, this could be a real find...

First question -- if the engine came out of a totalled E55, front hit, should I touch it? Lemme know. If so, read on and give me your next opinion...

Second question ... If I know the VIN (can do a CarFax to get history) and engine serial number, would the dealership be able to tell me if the "numbers match" and that's the car the engine came out of? Can anyone else help?

Third question to the club... Should I [eventually] supercharge my 4.3L AMG engine @ about $13K installed, or do the engine swap to the 5.5L engine @ maybe up to $12K installed?

I have a C43 with about 60K [pretty hard] miles on it. I wasn't planning on doing anything to the engine @ this time. Was just going to do a speedybenz suspension and LSD. But now that the opportunity has arisen ...

Doing a Kleemann supercharger in my 4.3L engine should deliver higher output then the 5.5L NA engine alone. Is the "value" truly there with the 5.5L engine, having less HP&Torque for pretty much the same money? (above the 4.3L engine, trick bottom end, silica-alloy cylinder sleeves, cast alloy pistons... what else?)

Yes, I know I could eventually supercharge that too :cool: ... and :drool: [need that smiley] But if I were to do that too, speedybenz will certainly have something to say about all the weight I'm putting in the front of the car with both the added weight of the5.5L engine plus a supercharger with its weight up high! ;) ;)

One thing I'm thinking is the 4.3L engine of mine is a "devil I know". If I buy from a totalled car, front hit, it's a "devil I don't know". Any way that hit could impact to the crank though the crank pully and cause all sorts of problems?

Also, what are your thoughts on whether I should get its tranni if it's available too? Ya think it would be built up more?

Post up crowd. Help me make up my mind! :Ponder:

[neema12]

I read this post all 3 times. I have tons of advice, but I know nothing about swaps and motors. I would do a 5.5L motor, just to be special and rare. Sorry, hopefully this bump helps ya...

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by neema12
I read this post all 3 times

...but the previous two disappeared...? :confused:

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by neema12
I read this post all 3 times. I have tons of advice, but I know nothing about swaps and motors. I would do a 5.5L motor, just to be special and rare. Sorry, hopefully this bump helps ya...

That yard sale of yours is sik! :bunny:

[jnolte]

do the 55 engine swap, and then S/C it! That would be crazy

[98c43amg]

Update...

CarFax reports the car was totalled 02/26/2003, so the engine hasn't run for 2 years ... anyone know if that means it will need an overhaul?

[jnolte]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
Update...

CarFax reports the car was totalled 02/26/2003, so the engine hasn't run for 2 years ... anyone know if that means it will need an overhaul?

ur going to have to get the engine checked out.....

dont buy a broken engine.... who knows it could need all new internals, BIG $$

[djdoughboy]

honestly doo... you are talking about doing something pretty ballzy... now back in my honda days... i may have jumped at an oppertunity like this to drop a GSR motor from a totaled integ into my hatch... but.......... we have all moved on from our honda days... and we drive more expensive cars with more expensive engines... and more expensive repair bills...

...you are talking about dropping 10-12 grand on this biaa... and i garuntee you that engine will NOT be koo if it is from a totaled vehicle... expect to pay at least another 5k to get it running normal... and then once you DO get it running normal... you will be throwing cash at it like a Las Vegas stripper just to keep it on the road...

...ive never done a swap from a wrecked car and had the engine run koo... NEVER (and ive done many swaps in many types of cars)... my advice? stick with the motor you got...

...however... if you DO decide to do the swap... let me know how it goes cause that would be one hell of a ride boy!


hope my opinion helps you in your decision...


Sean

[98c43amg]

thanx for the informed response. what got me seriously thinking about it [again] is coolcarlskic43 who just did it...
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5916
And you're right... the engine he got needed the cam timing corrected. but after addressing that, I think he's been a pig in sh*t.

but what I worry most about this engine is the car was totalled in early 2003 ... is not running it that long truely a concern?

thanx for your thoughts again.

[Dr. ///AMG]

Fuck kleemann, do an HPS supercharger on your C43, it'll cost you like $9k tops installed and call it a day.

[98c43amg]

You're right. I shouldn't have said "kleemann" in place of supercharger until I'm willing to take the plunge with one or the other. I had two issues with the HPS though...

- Noise: I had a ride in a newly done CLK and damn, the whine was so intense and a lot more then I was willing to live with.

- Intake location: They relocate the intake in front of the right front wheels. Not only do they dump stupid quantities of sand/dirt on the roads when in snows here on LI, but I also live out on a neck, and have to drive over basically a sand-bar to get to my house ... just too much dirt and sand on the right shoulder of the road over most all the roads I drive for me to feel comfortable with the intake inches from that dirt.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by 98c43amg


but what I worry most about this engine is the car was totalled in early 2003 ... is not running it that long truely a concern?
I have installed a number engines that have been removed for 2 or more years and they all work fine. what we do at my shop is soak the cylinders with wd-40 or similar, let it sit for a few hours, then pour some motor oil in the cylinders, manually rotate the engine 10-15 turns, and if everything seems fine, we suck up the oil from the cylinders, hook up a starter to the engine, power it up and do a compression test, if its within the specs, the engine is ready for install. and we also give 1 year warranty.

nenad

[Dr. ///AMG]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
You're right. I shouldn't have said "kleemann" in place of supercharger until I'm willing to take the plunge with one or the other. I had two issues with the HPS though...

- Noise: I had a ride in a newly done CLK and damn, the whine was so intense and a lot more then I was willing to live with.

- Intake location: They relocate the intake in front of the right front wheels. Not only do they dump stupid quantities of sand/dirt on the roads when in snows here on LI, but I also live out on a neck, and have to drive over basically a sand-bar to get to my house ... just too much dirt and sand on the right shoulder of the road over most all the roads I drive for me to feel comfortable with the intake inches from that dirt. They got a new system now that has no whine.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by jnenad16
I have installed a number engines that have been removed for 2 or more years and they all work fine. what we do at my shop is soak the cylinders with wd-40 or similar, let it sit for a few hours, then pour some motor oil in the cylinders, manually rotate the engine 10-15 turns, and if everything seems fine, we suck up the oil from the cylinders, hook up a starter to the engine, power it up and do a compression test, if its within the specs, the engine is ready for install. and we also give 1 year warranty.
nenad

What state & city are you in?

[djdoughboy]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
thanx for the informed response. what got me seriously thinking about it [again] is coolcarlskic43 who just did it...
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5916
And you're right... the engine he got needed the cam timing corrected. but after addressing that, I think he's been a pig in sh*t.

but what I worry most about this engine is the car was totalled in early 2003 ... is not running it that long truely a concern?

thanx for your thoughts again.


...yes by all means that is truely a concern... i need not reiterate my previous post so ill just leave it at that... what nenad said is all fine and gravey for a simple engine swap... but THIS engine is from a totalled vehicle... maybe none of you have had experiences with an engine that has been in a wreck... but i have had my fair share... and they are never same after the wreck... just my 2 cents though... if it were me id go the route doc suggested... that would still be one hell of a ride man... and then it would at least be a "devil you know" as you put it...


Sean

[coolcarlskic43]

The engine in my C43 is from a totalled E55 and I chkd everything out on car fax and with my buddy at the MB dealer(serial,vin,engine #) you name it.Of course it's a gamble.I thought it was worth it and I've done swaps in many cars..The car(E55) was almost unrecognizable.TOTALED.


http://img72.exs.cx/img72/6527/test13ko.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
99M3 estroil Blue/BLK94 332i Just 2 out of my 4 lovely children.

This past summer I placed a low mileage totalled M3 3.2L motor in my blk (pictured)325i/332i.I added several mods to it.This car is a Monster as is my C43/C55.I also purchased the Blue M3(Salvage title 99 37K MILES) which had not been driven since 2001, last yr August,chgd the oil,started her up and absolutely beautiful.For reliability I'd get the 5.5L motor.

You can still use your stck C43 tranny,it is basically the same tranny that's in a 1999 E55.Remember people S/C (E,S,CLK)430's with the stck tranny in them already so the tranny is well up to the task of handling the 5.5L motors tq.All the other trannies are actually the same as well even though they have the triptronic feature.Best tranny of course would be from the newer stck F/I AMG's.

Yes F/I on the C43 motor can give you more HP and a lil more tq.But if your beating the hell out of the car no way will it last anywhere near as long as a Stck 4.3 or 5,5L.

Between purchasing a new/rebuilt AMG ECU ,the E55 traction control module,the 5.5L motor and 1600.00 labor to install,I spent a total of I 'd say roughly 8k.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
What state & city are you in?

honolulu, hawaii.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by djdoughboy
...yes by all means that is truely a concern... i need not reiterate my previous post so ill just leave it at that... what nenad said is all fine and gravey for a simple engine swap... but THIS engine is from a totalled vehicle... maybe none of you have had experiences with an engine that has been in a wreck... but i have had my fair share... and they are never same after the wreck... just my 2 cents though... if it were me id go the route doc suggested... that would still be one hell of a ride man... and then it would at least be a "devil you know" as you put it...


Sean
most of the engines I have are from totaled cars. of course, I will most likely pass on one that was in a mean front end collision, but if its side or rear end damage, the engine is most likely still intact.

nenad

[djdoughboy]

true

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by jnenad16
honolulu, hawaii. :o I guess sending it to you for a re-conditioning after, if I were to buy it, isn't very do-able... :p

[98c43amg]

Surprisingly when I spoke to an MB tech @ a dealership today, he was only discussing the possibility of needing to replace the pan or other ancillary external parts that could get affected if the car was in a front hit. I re-asked, what about the possibility it affects the crank journals, bearings, or other internals, through the harmonic balancer, if it took a front impact ... and he said there's very little worry about that causing internal problems. :ermm: Surprising to say the least. Logic (as some of you) would tell me otherwise; at least that it's a possibility ... but I'm just re-stating what he said.

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
:o I guess sending it to you for a re-conditioning after, if I were to buy it, isn't very do-able... :p
LOL guess not. even if you get the engine and it needs overhauling, you are looking at 25-30 hrs of labor, depending on going labor rate in your area, that may be a good investment, IMO at least.

nenad

ps the same place you found the E55 engine, do you know if they have the whole car cuz I badly need engine wiring harness and the computers for my E55. or even better if you can get me their phone number, I would greatly appreciate it.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by jnenad16
ps the same place you found the E55 engine, do you know if they have the whole car cuz I badly need engine wiring harness and the computers for my E55. or even better if you can get me their phone number, I would greatly appreciate it. I'll PM you the info tomorrow.... that is if you first promise to give me first right to decide if I want to purchasing the engine... :Paranoid: :p

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
I'll PM you the info tomorrow.... that is if you first promise to give me first right to decide if I want to purchasing the engine... :Paranoid: :p
OK LOL

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by jnenad16
LOL guess not. even if you get the engine and it needs overhauling, you are looking at 25-30 hrs of labor, depending on going labor rate in your area, that may be a good investment, IMO at least.

nenad

ps the same place you found the E55 engine, do you know if they have the whole car cuz I badly need engine wiring harness and the computers for my E55. or even better if you can get me their phone number, I would greatly appreciate it. Make sure you compare vehicle production dates.
Originally posted by 98c43amg
I'll PM you the info tomorrow.... that is if you first promise to give me first right to decide if I want to purchasing the engine... :Paranoid: :p I would not get the motor because you worry too much.My motor was from a frontal impact and yes I had to have the timing readjusted but it was not because the car was hit.It's a gamble but usually the odds are in your favor considering the mileage of the motor.Your too concerned so leave it and give me the info so that I can purchase the motor and put it in my friend's CLK 430.:rolleyes:

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Your too concerned so leave it and give me the info so that I can purchase the motor and put it in my friend's CLK 430.:rolleyes:

yuk yuk ... just my nature as a developer ... gotta know all the variables before I start; weigh the ups vs. the downs; consider all the compromises. ...you just don't want another C55 202 on Long Island... :silly:

Btw, I also don't think you'll want to pay what they're asking ... almost double what you paid for your 5.5L engine, and another reason for my apprehension. ...6 grand for a 5.5L AMG engine ... who do I hand the cash over to ... 10 grand for a crashed car that's sat for some reason for 2 years? ...where an "new" unused one out of a official ML55 AMG crash test car was 15 grand...? let me think about it some more. Just me. I did the same thing when deciding if I should go for a complete speedybenz suspension. Did it though.

...was about to book a flight to go visit the engine yesterday. Decided I needed to find a local MB mechanic first, so am doing that now.

[98c43amg]

nenad, sorry. The salvage yard said they don't have the car and couldn't help you with the harness.

Otherwise, to all...

Here I am trying to find someone who can go inspect the engine for me local to where it is upon recommendation from previous posts ... and thinking I'll fly there @ the same time ... but when I talked to the salvage yard today (reseller I find out today; he's not the one in possesion of the engine) and asked him about coming to visit the engine to check it out first, he said
"no we don't do that; you cannot come here and see it. That's very unusual; we've never had anyone come to check out an engine ... we give a 6 month garantee, and detail what's wrong with it (needs a new pan, head cover, other stuff from the accident) on the bill of sale, and if the engine is not in that condition you can get your money back ..." So for those of you with experience with parts from a wrecked car, and dealing with salvage yards ... is this true or is he just blowing smoke up my ass, so I don't
a) talk to the real person in possesion of the engine and find I can get it for thousands less directly from him, or
b) or perhaps get turned off seeing something that's not on the up & up and not buy it...?
Is this fishy or the normal way business is done with salvage yards?

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
[B]nenad, sorry. The salvage yard said they don't have the car and couldn't help you with the harness.

Otherwise, to all...

Here I am trying to find someone who can go inspect the engine for me local to where it is upon recommendation from previous posts ... and thinking I'll fly there @ the same time ... but when I talked to the salvage yard today (reseller I find out today; he's not the one in possesion of the engine) and asked him about coming to visit the engine to check it out first, he said So for those of you with experience with parts from a wrecked car, and dealing with salvage yards ... is this true or is he just blowing smoke up my ass, so I don't
a) talk to the real person in possesion of the engine and find I can get it for thousands less directly from him, or
b) or perhaps get turned off seeing something that's not on the up & up and not buy it...?
Is this fishy or the normal way business I have a friend with 2 5.5L motors. His name is MOTO(Norman) on www.mbworld.org forum.PM him,he's reliable and trying to get rid of the motors.Tell him Carl in NYC told you to get in touch with him.If you need a 5.0L motor I know where to get one of those locally.The MB mechanic(My buddy)the same guy who installed the 5.5L motor in the car has the 5.0 L motors.He lives in LI off of Exit 21 Southern State .I mentioned ths b4 but you cried:( that he's too far. Guess what ,I live in NYC and take my BMW's to a head BMW dealer mechanic friend of mine who lives in MT.Kisco NY.That's farther than what you would have to travel. For my moneys worth and good quality wrk a 1.5hr drive is not an issue.I even go all the way to Stamford CT or Woodbridge NJ to get my vehicles Dynoed.Peace of mind is what counts.;) :D

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
I have a friend with 2 5.5L motors. His name is MOTO(Norman) on www.mbworld.org forum.PM him,he's reliable and trying to get rid of the motors.Tell him Carl in NYC told you to get in touch with him.If you need a 5.0L motor I know where to get one of those locally.The MB mechanic(My buddy)the same guy who installed the 5.5L motor in the car has the 5.0 L motors.He lives in LI off of Exit 21 Southern State .I mentioned ths b4 but you cried:( that he's too far. Guess what ,I live in NYC and take my BMW's to a head BMW dealer mechanic friend of mine who lives in MT.Kisco NY.That's farther than what you would have to travel. For my moneys worth and good quality wrk a 1.5hr drive is not an issue.I even go all the way to Stamford CT or Woodbridge NJ to get my vehicles Dynoed.Peace of mind is what counts.;) :D

"The City" city, on Brooklyn/Queens? I thought you were out on LI.

That info is very generous of you. Thank You! (why isn't your friend with the CLK going for it?) I'm doing it now. :lick: After talking to RPM Racing too, I don't think I'll be going for this particular engine, given the price plus circumstances. Do you still want the contact info, or is the price and circumstance suspect for you too? (eh, I'll just PM it to you and you can call'm if you want.)

Listen, I'm down with what you're saying regarding a great tech and extra effort that's worth... But consider, you can be w/o one of your cars easily for any period of time, given the 4 that you have. I can't. What I didn't get into when I replied was my wife and I have very differing schedules, and need separate cars. I also work a lot farther out east, so was just saying a tech much further west then where I live, and even further away mile-wise from my home to the independent MB tech I'd already been using who also happens to be close to where I work, was unfortunate. For a big job where I'd expect to make compromises with commuting schedules and cart my wife around, since I'd have to leave the car for days, say if I needed a valve job, I'd love to use him and thank you again for the contact. For oil changes, it's just too geographically undesirable. :(

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
I have a friend with 2 5.5L motors. His name is MOTO(Norman) on www.mbworld.org forum.PM him,he's reliable and trying to get rid of the motors.Tell him Carl in NYC told you to get in touch with him. PM me his phone number ... I can't wait for him to read and reply to the e-mail and PM I sent him... :D

Ya know, I hadn't been going to MBWorld.org 'cus my account was archived (I couldn't sign in). I sent a query but never got a reply. Just tried it today and I'm in! ....was reading your posting there ... awsome info ... I'm inspired by you! :p

-steve

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
"The City" city, on Brooklyn/Queens? I thought you were out on LI.

That info is very generous of you. Thank You! (why isn't your friend with the CLK going for it?) I'm doing it now. :lick: After talking to RPM Racing too, I don't think I'll be going for this particular engine, given the price plus circumstances. Do you still want the contact info, or is the price and circumstance suspect for you too? (eh, I'll just PM it to you and you can call'm if you want.)

Listen, I'm down with what you're saying regarding a great tech and extra effort that's worth... But consider, you can be w/o one of your cars easily for any period of time, given the 4 that you have. I can't. What I didn't get into when I replied was my wife and I have very differing schedules, and need separate cars. I also work a lot farther out east, so was just saying a tech much further west then where I live, and even further away mile-wise from my home to the independent MB tech I'd already been using who also happens to be close to where I work, was unfortunate. For a big job where I'd expect to make compromises with commuting schedules and cart my wife around, since I'd have to leave the car for days, say if I needed a valve job, I'd love to use him and thank you again for the contact. For oil changes, it's just too geographically undesirable. :( I know those guys at Mid Cty Auto.They're located in Wisconsin.The manager's name is Al.I bought my m3 engine and tranny from them for a pretty gd deal. 9k for that 5.5L is alil steep.Norman is selling his motors for much cheaper.

My friend with the CLK is still deciding based on finances whether he wants to go F/I,5.0 or 5.5L.Yea he's a lil indecisive right now.PM'd you the # for MOTO

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
I know those guys at Mid Cty Auto.They're located in Wisconsin.The manager's name is Al.I bought my m3 engine and tranny from them for a pretty gd deal. 9k for that 5.5L is alil steep.Norman is selling his motors for much cheaper.

My friend with the CLK is still deciding based on finances whether he wants to go F/I,5.0 or 5.5L.Yea he's a lil indecisive right now.PM'd you the # for MOTO Surprising. Ya, he wasn't willing to budge on the $$$ ($5 shy of 10K actually ;) )
...Oh, and I'm buying Norman's engine ... :cool: :bunny: ... I'll feel a lot better taking slight fire damage to ancillary external engine components over an unknown possible hard hit myself.

Thanx so very much for the contact info and re-directing me to a better place. ...now I gotta nuther problem ... I know RPM Racing who are going to be installing the speedybenz suspension and LSD for me want to do the conversion ... my service rep is pushing me to have their head tech do the conversion ... and there's your freind who's already done the conversion (more then once?)...

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
Surprising. Ya, he wasn't willing to budge on the $$$ ($5 shy of 10K actually ;) )
...Oh, and I'm buying Norman's engine ... :cool: :bunny: ... I'll feel a lot better taking slight fire damage to ancillary external engine components over an unknown possible hard hit myself.

I know RPM Racing who are going to be installing the speedybenz suspension and LSD for me want to do the conversion ... my service rep is pushing me to have their head tech do the conversion ... and there's your freind who's already done the conversion (more then once?)... Whoever you have do the conversion,make sure it's some one who wrks presently for MB,whether it's your MB head tech,or my Buddy.Trust me you won't regret it.Any damaged parts on the 5.5L motor can be switched with the parts from your 4.3l (C43).Injectors(same and are green),manifold ,harness.Let the MB mechanic do it or my friend.If my friend does it ,you'll get your car back the next day.He's excellent and you would never detect that you did the swap.Everything will be where it belongs.He also has the Star diagnostic equipment.

You will need to replace the ECU(AMG) and traction control module(E55),unless(which I doubt)you can find someone to reprogram it.Really not wrth the effort trying that route but I can get you the parts from my other buddy that wrks for MB for dirt cheap his cost.

How much did you buy the motor for?PM me!
I'm glad I was able to help.I'll pm you my # if you need anymore info.I'd sure like to know about the LSD.







l

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
I'd sure like to know about the LSD.

Sorry, I forgot to include this info in the PM. It's the Kleemann LSD, which is basically a modified Phantom Grip LSD that Kleemann modified (and puts a big premium on :mad: ). I'm having it done @ RPM Racing Inc. (http://www.rpmracinginc.com/) . I've been talking to Erik Badia. Let him know Steve with the C43 they're going to do the suspension modification & LSD on sent you. To your point, probably not the engine though :( ; I may be better off having your guy or the other head MB tech I know do it due to the unknown damaged parts.

[though Erik did mention something about maybe getting it in a magazine.... maybe I can get RPM Racing and your tech to work in partnership together @ their site... :D ]

-steve