Supercharger Upgrade

[VIP_MBZ]

Since the first major limitation of power on the C230K is the supercharger itself, topping out at less than 1 bar, can we take a larger compressor unit and swap the factory one out with no other complications?

I was thinking one of the V6 or V8 Kompressor units may be able to move more volume, and would require a minimum of fabrication.

-Ray

[714guy]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Since the first major limitation of power on the C230K is the supercharger itself, topping out at less than 1 bar, can we take a larger compressor unit and swap the factory one out with no other complications?

I was thinking one of the V6 or V8 Kompressor units may be able to move more volume, and would require a minimum of fabrication.
-Ray

don't think you can do it b/c of the design on the supercharger, I know for kleeman the super charger replaces the intake manifold and that wont work or you c230. I have no clue what the C230 s/c looks like so i can't suggest anything. I am pretty sure you can find a vortec blower or somthing that will fit.

[djdoughboy]

be careful... you cant simply "bolt on" a super charger... the block, pistons, rods, everything... is designed to handle a certain amount of compression... change the fine tuned equation that the engineers at mercedes have created and you will put your whole engine at risk... with higher compression and more boost your pistons and walls need to be reinforced... as well as other parts of the engine... forcing more air into the engine then it was designed to intake means the ecu will need to put more fuel into the chamber to keep the engine from running lean... this is not always a good thing for the ecu... and the ecu doesnt always make the correct adjustments... thus... you need a reprogrammed ecu... and with all this combustion going on with more fuel and more air... you need to account for more exhaust... the exhaust system was designed to handle a certain ammount of exhaust flow... start trying to force more then that out and there will be complications... anyway... you get the picture... there is not a simple "bolt on" s/c for any car... there are many more modifications that need to be made in order for the finely tuned system to work properly... just my 2 cents... if you need help with the mods... message me... im always down to help a fellow 202 owner...



Sean

[VIP_MBZ]

I'm not unfamiliar with the prerequisites for more boost. I'm also aware that at 11 psi on the stock compressor, the a/f ratio and EGT are still very conservative, whereas the supercharger itself is being stressed.

The motor's ability to handle the pressure is yet another concern, but with a higher flowing (larger) compressor, you could achieve more power with less boost and also less heat, at the sacrifice of some top end efficiency do to the overall mass of the compressor.

If everybody is afraid to pop the motor, we'll never find out what its limit is. =P

-Ray

[Pagz]

if your going to increase the flow rate....another point to consider will definatly be your fuel system!!,
and also your ECU timing etc.......
if you take a look at speedwerx turbo setup,you'll find they had alot of problems after an efficient 9psi was added,due to the high flow rate of the turbo,it was mainly ECU/fuel that gave concern...

by all means show us how far the engine will go man!!!!!!:):):)

Rgrds,
Paul

[VIP_MBZ]

Step one is to figure out a logical compressor upgrade. For a turbo application, I'd say get a manifold made, and use a single HKS GT2835, and you're done. But I plan on keeping to the supercharged path as long as there's potential. It's all just a matter of research.

As for the ECU, I'm already doing custom reprogramming with Upsolute, who will be able to determine optimal timing maps based on the dyno, where we'll also find the limits of fuel.

-Ray

[Pagz]

go turbo!!...so much easier to adjust boost etc...
LOL you made turbo specs selection sound easier than SC selection!!:D
ditch the SC belt system in favour of the NA 230 engine configuration....,
you will still need boost control,wastegate,BOV,oil any maybe water cooling lines,manifold,exhaust changes/refit Oxy sensor ,changes to IC piping,and intake changes,and a fair amount of time on the dyno....well worth it though!
which ever path you take...goodluck man;)

Rgrds,
Paul

[Linh]

I was thinking one of the V6 or V8 Kompressor units may be able to move more volume, and would require a minimum of fabrication.


Require a minimum fabrication? Think again....the C230K is an inline 4 (I4) and the V6 & V8 is the V shape configuration engine. Therefore when compared the two SC, it like day and night.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Linh
Require a minimum fabrication? Think again....the C230K is an inline 4 (I4) and the V6 & V8 is the V shape configuration engine. Therefore when compared the two SC, it like day and night.

he's right,if you upgrade it will need to be a custom SC with the correct flow characteristics so that overboost/boost drop doesnt occure in the Rev range...
SC's are usually alot easier to match than turbo due to a known variable(SC RPM)...,so if you call into a well known SC manufacturer,most will be able to take a look at the engine,pull out a calculator and tell you what should work well(i hope)...

in my opinion if you want to go the SC path,then use a screw type SC this time,instead of the cheap inefficient roots type...
the efficiency of the screw type is much higher so temperatures will be alot less.... the main draw back is the cost of the SC....i guess that is why MB never used them on the 202:rolleyes:

Rgrds
Paul

[MrSpace]

a guy placed a turbo on his C230k W203

and he got 268whp at like 9psi!

Injection was a PITA...

Etienne

[Pagz]

Originally posted by MrSpace
a guy placed a turbo on his C230k W203

and he got 268whp at like 9psi!

Injection was a PITA...

Etienne

Hey Etienne,
LOL.. PITA,took me a while to click....

can you see any reason why we couldnt run a turbo setup within pressure tolerance so that there was no fuel/ecu problems??...

depending on the efficiency of the turbo,it could be maybe around 7-8 psi.....the gains would still be great!!...
-single,lighter crank pully
-as much as 25hp free'd from driving the SC
-i could also do away with my shocking exhaust manifold!!
-inlet temps could be down...
-it would look great!!!:)
...ok ok i just really want a turbo:D

[Pagz]

Originally posted by MrSpace
a guy placed a turbo on his C230k W203

and he got 268whp at like 9psi!

Injection was a PITA...

Etienne

Hey Etienne,
LOL.. PITA,took me a while to click....

can you see any reason why we couldnt run a turbo setup within pressure tolerance so that there was no fuel/ecu problems??...

depending on the efficiency of the turbo,it could be maybe around 7-8 psi.....the gains would still be great!!...
-single,lighter crank pully
-as much as 25hp free'd from driving the SC
-i could also do away with my shocking exhaust manifold!!
-inlet temps could be down...
-it would look great!!!:)
...ok ok i just really want a turbo:D

[MrSpace]

if you check on mbklasse.com you'll see some details on the guy's setup

What stopped him to get the desired power is the injection, but I think he didn't look hard enought to bypass or fool the injection system. Altough he had siemens and we have bosh

at 9psi he says the car runs as normal!

turbo will be the step after I'll have done everything possible with the current SC. But maybe then I'll prefer to put more looks mods like xenon or others!

Etienne

[Pagz]

Originally posted by MrSpace
if you check on mbklasse.com you'll see some details on the guy's setup

What stopped him to get the desired power is the injection, but I think he didn't look hard enought to bypass or fool the injection system. Altough he had siemens and we have bosh

at 9psi he says the car runs as normal!

turbo will be the step after I'll have done everything possible with the current SC. But maybe then I'll prefer to put more looks mods like xenon or others!

Etienne

yeh iv been talking to him for a while,he is goin to upgrade the turbo,....i was thinking about purchasing the old one off him...as the specs are well matched for his current HP(which is my current target)....but it is not a roller bearing turbo...which is what im after....i would like to also obtain his housing sizes and turbine specs so matching a new one to mine would be easy....

Regards,
Paul

[SLAMMED_C]

The whole Turbo / Supercharger debate could go on forever!!.. it comes down to personal preference.
I like both set ups.. and like the idea of seeing both set ups.
I had thought about going turbo on my car too.. but I think Ill stick with SC and see what I can do with it.
my goal is 300hp at the crank with stock SC.
I have toyed with the idea of swapping out the stock unit for another SC that will be able to handle the spinning! but thats a day for when I have a second car.. its difficult to do extensive mods when its your daily driver!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
The whole Turbo / Supercharger debate could go on forever!!..

especially when im here:p

[Linh]

I have toyed with the idea of swapping out the stock unit for another SC that will be able to handle the spinning! but thats a day for when I have a second car.. its difficult to do extensive mods when its your daily driver!

Awhile back, Kleemann try it but i haven't hear nothing seen. Don't waste your money guys. I think the main reason was the fuel injection system could not be completely mods/tune. I remember talking to a NOS complete that was trying to design a kit for our car but gave up due to the fuel injection system. They said that they could not crack Mercedes code to reprogram the fuel injection system. A stand alone unit might be the only way.

[coolin]

Originally posted by Linh
Awhile back, Kleemann try it but i haven't hear nothing seen. Don't waste your money guys. I think the main reason was the fuel injection system could not be completely mods/tune. I remember talking to a NOS complete that was trying to design a kit for our car but gave up due to the fuel injection system. They said that they could not crack Mercedes code to reprogram the fuel injection system. A stand alone unit might be the only way.

I'm with Linh...If the big tuners aren't interested in providing something...it's probably due to a huge PITA factor. C36's are cheap, trade up to one of those and get all the AMG @#$# with it.

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by coolin
C36's are cheap, trade up to one of those and get all the AMG @#$# with it.

I tend to agree with the mentality of trading up to a higher model, but I'm just so attached to this specific chassis since my fam is the original owner and it's absolutely pristine.

How difficult are engine swaps for the later 5.5L, as far as sourcing a drivetrain compatible with the 202?

-Ray