Changed air mass Car is a BEAST

[coolcarlskic43]

Took my car to get dynoed again and Wow ,what a difference.


George of www.ICSperformance.com felt that the car needed a serious tune up. After a couple of Dyno runs on the Dynojet the car only produced tops 275whp and 286 ftlbs of TQ.I was not happy at all.The E55 motor in my car should be doing at least 284-294whp and 296-301 ft lbs of TQ.So I'm down nearly 20whp and 15 ftlbs of TQ. When I put the 5.5L motor in the car I never chgd the spark plugs.At least not yet.Stupid me. However I never would have suspected a faulty Mass air sensor either.The prior owner of my C43 told me it was new.From reading www.MBworldforums.org There are many posts stating that the airmass has been known to fail even with out setting the CEL.

Well George says lets do everything from plugs to fuel filter to new airmass.I figured the hell with it the car could'nt run any worse.The low whp#'s and several dyno runs was really driving me crazy.The #'s kept getting lower and lower to 250whp.

George ordered 16 new Denso Iridium plugs,new Mass air sensor and fuelfilter and did the install.He also placed an O2 bung in front of the precat for the Wide band O2.Prior A/F #'s went as high as 16.5 and barely into 14.7 in the higher rpm's.LEAN! Like I said this was prior to the tune up.

By the way those plugs by cylinder #'s 3,4,7,and 8 can be a pain in the ass to get to.

So now everything is installed,plugs filter and air mass.We put the the car back on the Dyno and DAMN! The A/F was now down to 14.5-12.2.WHP has now gone up in the range of 290-295whp/TQ 300-311TQ.

We did several runs and the A/F ,whp and TQ stayed in a consistent range. My Gosh! what a difference. I will post my dyno Sat.We did several and I mean several runs.


Took the car on the road,turned off the ESP and the car did a 96ft burn out with both rear wheels locked to my surprise.The topend is scary and the car just pulls like a jet on takeoff.

We gained 20whp and 15 ftlbs of TQ.What a diffference just from changing the mass the car is getting plenty of fuel now.Not only that but the car was getting 300ftlbs of TQ as low as about 3k-3500 rpm's to the best of my memory.

Later on George raced his friends STi in my car. I will post the run in the mbworld kill stories tomorrow.Believe me it was a pleasant surprise.

[Linh]

So happy for you. Can you post your new dyno chart? I would like to see how smooth the dyno chart show the bottom end power.

[Linh]

16 new Denso Iridium plugs


Can you link us the website to order these plugs?

[Renn 208]

awesome...way to show how proper care can really make a difference.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by Linh
So happy for you. Can you post your new dyno chart? I would like to see how smooth the dyno chart show the bottom end power. Yes I left there so late and got home12am.I hope to get my sheets tomorrow or Sat.I'will post ASAP. You can get the plugs at pepboys ,autozone ori think from denso's website.Just put denso iridium sparkplugs in your browser search engine.

[Linh]

Thanks, i didn't know that you can get those plugs the Autozone. Btw, are those colder plugs or platinum?

[CKlasse]

Autozone $14.... direct keystone or denso $10. But yes, they are widely distributed now. :)

[VIP_MBZ]

I can get them for $8 each. IK20 is stock for supercharged, IK16 is stock for n/a.

-Ray

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
George ordered 16 new Denso Iridium plugs,new Mass air sensor and fuelfilter and did the install.He also placed an O2 bung in front of the precat for the Wide band O2.Prior A/F #'s went as high as 16.5 and barely into 14.7 in the higher rpm's.LEAN! Like I said this was prior to the tune up.


So are you saying the machinations you went through with the re-programming of your C43 ECU based on the programming in the C55 ECU {did I get that right} didn't address the A/F ratio after all? :eek: Also what exactly is this "He also placed an O2 bung in front of the precat for the Wide band O2."?

Great info; much thanx. I talked to Jeff; I think I'll be going with him. Wish he wasn't going away the week the engine could be here ... I have to have it delayed or ship it to my house then get it to him somehow... :rolleyes:

[martattack]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
Also what exactly is this "He also placed an O2 bung in front of the precat for the Wide band O2."?

What this sounds like to me is that he put a threaded hole(bung) so you can mount a wideband Oxygen Sensor (typically used on dyno runs because they are much more sensitive). He put it in front of the cat so it measures the actual A/F ratio before the exhaust hits the catalytic converter.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by BoominBenz
What this sounds like to me is that he put a threaded hole(bung) so you can mount a wideband Oxygen Sensor (typically used on dyno runs because they are much more sensitive). He put it in front of the cat so it measures the actual A/F ratio before the exhaust hits the catalytic converter. There you go! In a nut shell.

QUOTE]Originally posted by 98c43amg
So are you saying the machinations you went through with the re-programming of your C43 ECU based on the programming in the C55 ECU {did I get that right} didn't address the A/F ratio after all? [/QUOTE] I'm not using a C55 ECU it's a E55 ECU.

[Linh]

I can get them for $8 each. IK20 is stock for supercharged, IK16 is stock for n/a.

My friend just got some for me. IK20 is the same heat range as stock plugs. IK16 is one step hotter plugs then stock. I got the IK22 ($11 EA.) due to i'm running 2 psi of boost over stock. The IK22 is one step colder then stock plugs.

[VIP_MBZ]

Speaking of plugs, I was thinking about using my HKS TwinPower Type DLI so I can run a big gap. I'm already using .044 on IK20's with no misfire.

-Ray

[MrSpace]

Originally posted by Linh
My friend just got some for me. IK20 is the same heat range as stock plugs. IK16 is one step hotter plugs then stock. I got the IK22 ($11 EA.) due to i'm running 2 psi of boost over stock. The IK22 is one step colder then stock plugs.

is it possible that the plugs you gave me are too cold for my setup?

Etienne

[VIP_MBZ]

One degree colder usually doesn't hurt anything. Just don't use Ik24 or anything.

-Ray

[Linh]

Originally posted by MrSpace
is it possible that the plugs you gave me are too cold for my setup?

Etienne


No because i replace the plugs on my Slk 3 times now and the plugs showed clean burning plus dyno showed 10 hp gain in the summer. I just want to try the IK22 because of the design and technology in that plugs.

[Linh]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
One degree colder usually doesn't hurt anything. Just don't use Ik24 or anything.

-Ray


Why do you say that?

[Linh]

Originally posted by MrSpace
is it possible that the plugs you gave me are too cold for my setup?

Etienne


Etienne,

I think i know what you're thinking and the answer to that is no. Your over all hp gain with pulley showed is low due to you dyno it on the brake roller dyno instead of dynojet. But you you just look at the hp gain alone from the pulley, your hp gained is the same as us. I got 4 hp more due to the manual tranny.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
So are you saying the machinations you went through with the re-programming of your C43 ECU based on the programming in the E55 ECU {did I get that right} didn't address the A/F ratio after all? I'm not using a C55 ECU it's a E55 ECU.

Ya, that's a typo. Ok, Otherwise, you were saying "Prior A/F #'s went as high as 16.5 and barely into 14.7 in the higher rpm's.LEAN! Like I said this was prior to the tune up" ; but I understand the tune-up is after the E55 ECU thingie you did. So it appears the E55 ECU didn't address the lean-ness? I'm just trying to understand what role the E55 ECU then plays and if it was necessary at all ...for me to do too.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
I'm not using a C55 ECU it's a E55 ECU.

Ya, that's a typo. Ok, Otherwise, you were saying "Prior A/F #'s went as high as 16.5 and barely into 14.7 in the higher rpm's.LEAN! Like I said this was prior to the tune up" ; but I understand the tune-up is after the E55 ECU thingie you did. So it appears the E55 ECU didn't address the lean-ness? I'm just trying to understand what role the E55 ECU then plays and if it was necessary at all ...for me to do too. [/B][/QUOTE]




You will still need the 55 ECU because the fuel trims and such will be different.However still my biggest problem was the air mass sensor.I do have a E55 control unit and traction control available if you are interested.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
You will still need the 55 ECU because the fuel trims and such will be different.However still my biggest problem was the air mass sensor.I do have a E55 control unit and traction control available if you are interested.

Ok, thanx. I'll keep My MAS in mind too. BTW, have you considered boring out the MAS and adding a RAM intake like speedybenz -- he took out the foglights and put intake ducts going from there to the airbox with something like 3" or 4" tubing. I'll talk to you later about the modules ... why ya have multiples if I might ask? :confused:

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by Linh
Why do you say that?

I once had a setup where PK20 was the stock plug. Going from a stock boost of 9-10psi up to 16 psi, I decided to go with IK22, which was fine. I tried IK24 to see if maybe I could get more advance, but I just ended up misfiring it because the heat range was too cold.

I figured my setup was too mild to warrant an IK24. But we tried those plugs again on another Supra with a single T04R boosting about 22-24 psi. Still too cold. Fouled them in one day of hard runs. Went to IK22 and everything was peachy.

With that in mind, I don't see a need for IK24 on any setup that still involves the factory supercharger.

-Ray

[coolcarlskic43]

The air mass is plastic.It can't be bored out.Those ducts in Speedy's fog lights are probably for his brakes.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
The air mass is plastic.It can't be bored out.Those ducts in Speedy's fog lights are probably for his brakes.

...ya know, dude, come on... :ermm: :cheek:

read this... (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5953) ... you'll see I flew out there to NorCal CA for a test drive in his car before I bought his complete speedbenz suspension kit ... I spent a few hours with him. As I was in his engine bay I think I should be able to say the ducting from the fogs is =not= for his brakes. (I thought you knew about his car.)

I never even saw this thread until searching for it now, but...
re: the MAS and ducting (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2664&highlight=bored)
(I think he's since taken it up to 84mm)

When I drove his car, it spun his 275mm wide rear tire with ease when I stepped on the throttle the same amount as I would my car, for what I'd expect to be a quick, but not overly agressive start from a stop; certainly not something that would spin my tires. His car acted like I had "gotten on it". The ease at which his car breathed was responsible for this; I can second that knowing the amount of low-end response I picked up going from the stock air filter to K&Ns. Add to that the ram setup, the bored out MAS, the spacers below his intake manifold ... response is greaty increased.

there are many other threads where these mods are touched on in addition to this... (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1397)

;)

[coolcarlskic43]

Hmmm that's some good info.No I don't really know his car that well. As far as intake and filters are concerned I'm thinking of trying this exact setup:http://img10.echo.cx/img10/5883/greenfilterinbently8gi.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img10.echo.cx/img10/32/greenfiltersetup8yj.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)



A lil expensive but cheaper(250.00 a piece for both) ,way cheaper than the Renntech,Brabus,Kleeman setups.

http://www.greenfilterusa.com/twister.asp

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Hmmm that's some good info.No I don't really know his car that well. As far as intake and filters are concerned I'm thinking of trying this exact setup...

Seeing it on the car, ya, that's pretty sweet!:werd:

[CKlasse]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
A lil expensive but cheaper(250.00 a piece for both) ,way cheaper than the Renntech,Brabus,Kleeman setups.

http://www.greenfilterusa.com/twister.asp

I actually sell tons of those in Denver. They are $207 ea. Got 8 of them in stock.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by CKlasse
I actually sell tons of those in Denver. They are $207 ea. Got 8 of them in stock. Cklasse how the hell are you!! LOL! By the way after looking at the filter housing it looks like it would be too big and that there would not be enuff room because of the valve covers and radiator support.:(How long and thick would you say they are actually?

[CKlasse]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Cklasse how the hell are you!! LOL! By the way after looking at the filter housing it looks like it would be too big and that there would not be enuff room because of the valve covers and radiator support.:(How long and thick would you say they are actually?

Doing just fine here! Mainly, you'll need 7.5"x7.5"x10" room. :)

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by CKlasse
Doing just fine here! Mainly, you'll need 7.5"x7.5"x10" room. :) I'm probably just better off buying the filters because I don't know if it will fit.