C32 brake correct fitment?

[VIP_MBZ]

So I've searched the archives about using the C32 brakes and I'm just about ready to make the plunge. My question is: have we figured out exactly what's necessary to orient the calipers in the correct fashion (instead of left/right reversed)? To my understanding it all comes down to the brake lines. Is there an exact measurement to use? I want to get this done in one shot rather than trial and error.

Also, is there an upgraded pad for this brake system that you guys recommend (EBC? Porterfield?) rather than getting stock pads?

Thanks!

-Ray

[714guy]

when i tried to put them on, the only problem i had was the bleeder vavle on the bottom instead of the top, so its hard to get the air out. I think there was athread about that, email J Irwan, b/c resolved that problem but i do;t know how. Other then that make sure your wheel offset will clear the caliper, that was my problem.

i personally like porterfield pads.

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by 714guy
when i tried to put them on, the only problem i had was the bleeder vavle on the bottom instead of the top, so its hard to get the air out. I think there was athread about that, email J Irwan, b/c resolved that problem but i do;t know how. Other then that make sure your wheel offset will clear the caliper, that was my problem.

i personally like porterfield pads.

Contrary to popular belief, wheel offset has absolutely nothing to do with brake clearance. The spec you need to consider is something I've never heard discussed on this board, which is wheel PAD. A high pad wheel (also called high-disk) sacrifices lip by pushing the face away from the mating surface and gives more room for brake clearance. This is how some wheels of exact same width and offset can have different lip, and some are designed to even have concave spokes.

This is the same thing people are trying to achieve with spacers, except without pushing out the rest of the wheel.

-Ray

[714guy]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Contrary to popular belief, wheel offset has absolutely nothing to do with brake clearance. The spec you need to consider is something I've never heard discussed on this board, which is wheel PAD. A high pad wheel (also called high-disk) sacrifices lip by pushing the face away from the mating surface and gives more room for brake clearance. This is how some wheels of exact same width and offset can have different lip, and some are designed to even have concave spokes.

This is the same thing people are trying to achieve with spacers, except without pushing out the rest of the wheel.

-Ray

yeah i know what your talking about some wheels spokes are pushed way in b/c of the lip and are not BBK friendly. Some are, but since more of the time they are fixed by spacers that change the offset/pushing wheel out more i just refer to it as offset problem. But you are right it would be more fitting to refer to it as wheel design since different wheels can have the smae offset but one won't clear the brakes. Anyways just make yours do, b/c i was almost done with the install and DOH, it didn't clear. Goodluck.

[VIP_MBZ]

So what did you have to do about your lines? Are they longer than before?

-Ray

[714guy]

the lines fit fine the way they are. I know that J Irwan said they he needed them longer for his, b/c he did some that that fixed the bleeder vavle so that it was on top.

heres the thread but the pictures are all gone since it was a while ago.

http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1786&highlight=brakes

[VIP_MBZ]

So other than that, everything is plug and play?

-Ray

[714guy]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
So other than that, everything is plug and play?

-Ray

werd :)

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Contrary to popular belief, wheel offset has absolutely nothing to do with brake clearance. The spec you need to consider is something I've never heard discussed on this board, which is wheel PAD. A high pad wheel (also called high-disk) sacrifices lip by pushing the face away from the mating surface and gives more room for brake clearance. This is how some wheels of exact same width and offset can have different lip, and some are designed to even have concave spokes.

This is the same thing people are trying to achieve with spacers, except without pushing out the rest of the wheel.

-Ray


This is where you are incorrect


Wheels offset is not the only factor that determine the clearance for BBK fitment.

Offset and the shape of the spoke altogether could provide maximum/optimum clearance for the brake.


Theorytically speaking wheel with the same exact design (let's presume one of the HRE wheel 540R)
one with offset +35mm and the other one has offset +30mm


The wheel with offset +35mm will give more clearance for bigger BBK caliper (given the same exact design on the spoke and the same width).

On this example wheel with offset +30mm will have more lips but at the cost of less wheel back-spacing. Less wheel back-spacing == less brake clearance ;).


That's why some on some wheels you will need to fit spacer in order to fit BBK.
Keep in mind that spacer is the a way to manipulate wheel original offset. (after all not all wheel available at customer offset & not everyone can afford custom wheel --- hence wheel spacer is the alternative).


I don't mean to attack you.

But I just want to make sure other on this forum not misinformed. :)





Regardz,

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by J Irwan
This is where you are incorrect


Wheels offset is not the only factor that determine the clearance for BBK fitment.


Wait, that's exactly what I said. In fact I said it has nothing to do with brake fitment at all, which you seem to agree with. What are we arguing?




The wheel with offset +35mm will give more clearance for bigger BBK caliper (given the same exact design on the spoke and the same width).

On this example wheel with offset +30mm will have more lips but at the cost of less wheel back-spacing. Less wheel back-spacing == less brake clearance ;).


I wholeheartedly disagree. Let's get some terminology straight.

Backspacing refers to the distance between the back of the face and the back edge of the wheel. It has no bearing on brake clearance AT ALL. Many American companies use this spec to describe the wheel geometry rather than offset. Usually described in inches.

Offset is the distance in millimeters of the inside mounting surface of the face from dead center, positive being towards the outside, and negative being towards the inside.

Lip is the distance from the front surface of the face to the outside edge of the wheel. This can be calculated by taking half of the width minus the pad, and minus the face thickness.

Pad is the distance from the inside surface of the face to the mounting surface where the wheel meets the hub. This takes into account spoke shape or anything else that places the face away from the mounting surface. An example is the SSR Professor wheel, which is available in "Super Low Disk" which reduces the pad in favor of more lip rather than brake clearance.

I've made an illustration (excuse the hand-drawn quality I whipped up):

http://suprablur.935motorsports.com/store/wheelterms.jpg


As you can see, you can play with the offset and width until you're blue in the face, and it will have absolutely positively no bearing on brake clearance. When you increase the offset, it's true that you will lose lip and gain backspace. However, pad, which is again the distance from the inside of the face to the mounting surface, is the one and only spec that affects clearance between the caliper and the wheel face. The other specs are designed to fit the wheel to the chassis to clear the fender on the outside and applicable suspension components, splash guard, and/or the actual wheel well on the inside.



That's why some on some wheels you will need to fit spacer in order to fit BBK.
Keep in mind that spacer is the a way to manipulate wheel original offset. (after all not all wheel available at customer offset & not everyone can afford custom wheel --- hence wheel spacer is the alternative).


I agree, plus sometimes the wheel that you want isn't available with custom pad (which actually speaks for most wheels on the market). A spacer increases the pad, but not without disrupting the offset, subsequently incresing the distance from the lug head to the hub (sometimes requiring longer bolts/studs). You can compensate for this by increasing your offset by the number of millimeters your spacer is. It will be the same as ordering a custom high-pad wheel.



I don't mean to attack you.

But I just want to make sure other on this forum not misinformed. :)


I didn't take it as an attack, this is just a subject that I'm very passionate about and I'm 100% sure of my information and its accuracy, as not only am I an avid user of custom wheel fitment, I'm also the primary advisor for a program designed specifically for maximizing wheel fitment options.

-Ray

[Denlasoul]

Question: What is the best way to determine if a BBK or similar kits can work with your wheels? Trial and error?

I would love to upgrade my brakes to something else, but hesitant as to if they will work with my current wheels. :(

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
Question: What is the best way to determine if a BBK or similar kits can work with your wheels? Trial and error?

I would love to upgrade my brakes to something else, but hesitant as to if they will work with my current wheels. :(



Dennis,

When you buy a brake, they usually provide with a template.

This template will have the dimension of the caliper body in relation to the hub rotor surface. (the distance between the rotor surface to the caliper body surface for C32 brake it was 43mm if I am not mistaken)


So with this template you glue it to a cardboard and cut it out...to imitate caliper location. and you could spin in on the back of your wheel to see if is fit.


Regardz,