need help with my turbo kit!!!

[jstrat85]

hi guys i just got my car back today from the shop and the wide band o2 gauge is reading that the car is running lean but then the gauge goes blank and goes on and reads again? i think its the sensor and its no good? when i have to stop at a red light my rpm goes up and down a couple of times and then it stops? what could be the problem? also i have done a chip(powerchip) do you think this could be the problem? and also what kind of softwear does mosselman turbo kits work with???? need help!!!:( :( :(

[Josh R]

Verify through the cars original O2 sensors that your car is runing lean. Aftermarket lightshows typically give false readings. Narrow band O2 sensors read from .100 to .999 on the voltage scale, or 1/10 to 1v. Widebands read from .100 to 4.99 volts, or 1/10 to 5v. When verifying using a DVOM or a scan tool if your car is runing lean your voltage will be on the floor or around .100 to .200. This will means you have a full time vacuum leak. O2 sensors at idle switch from .100 to .600 very quickly after open loop. If your car is a 202 with the 104 engine look for a disconnected or broken vacuum line that should be connected to the manifold, i.e. trans modulator line.

[jstrat85]

its the m111 motors.

[Under Pressure]

My old Mosselman kit didnt come with software. After the shop installed kit, the shop owner and I went for a ride and my car's engine rpm would go up and down also at stop lights. I asked him what the hell the deal was and he said the Mercedes' computer will relearn after about 50 miles or so of driving. It did and my car was smooth as a kitten after putting in some driving.

[jstrat85]

you see i have a powerchip done to my car and the car is running lean. i spoke to power chip and they told me that they can not do anything to the chip because im not in CA? they told me to send my ecu back so they can put the stock chip back. what do you guys think. if i put the stock chip back, do you think my car is going to run better?? im scared to drive it right now so i wont burn out my motor! so the mosselman kit just ran on the stock mb chip??? do you think it going to be enough fuel going into the motor??

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by jstrat85
you see i have a powerchip done to my car and the car is running lean. i spoke to power chip and they told me that they can not do anything to the chip because im not in CA? they told me to send my ecu back so they can put the stock chip back. what do you guys think. if i put the stock chip back, do you think my car is going to run better?? im scared to drive it right now so i wont burn out my motor! so the mosselman kit just ran on the stock mb chip??? do you think it going to be enough fuel going into the motor??

Mosselman took care of fuel issue with simple Vortech FMU but used the stock ECU. I dont think Powerchip is going to have any maps for a turbo'd C220 to flash so you may as well turn it back to stock. What exactly did you get flashed? Like what map? If your kit is substantially like the Mosselman kit, I ran it for 8,000 with no issues (not even a check engine light) with the stock ECU. I dont think the guy who purchased it from me three or four years ago has had any issues either. Maybe flash the chip back to stock? Or try to see if it adapts like it took me about three days of driving to do?

As far as running lean, I have no idea what you are doing for fuel but consider an additional injector? I think thats what the guy who bought my old kit did when a dyno showed he was running lean as well.

[MrSpace]

you can also try a bigger FPR
or change injectors

Etienne

[jstrat85]

im going to send back my ecu to powerchip and they are going to put my stock chip back in and then im going to see if its still running lean. let me ask you if i keep the power chip in and i do bigger injectors do you think its going to solve my problem with the running lean problem??? also mosselman didnt come with bigger injectors?

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by jstrat85
im going to send back my ecu to powerchip and they are going to put my stock chip back in and then im going to see if its still running lean. let me ask you if i keep the power chip in and i do bigger injectors do you think its going to solve my problem with the running lean problem??? also mosselman didnt come with bigger injectors?

My advice to reflash chip back to normal is only to address idling RPM problem. I dont know what to tell you about lean conditions other than maybe you should get another injector. Mosselman came only w/ Vortech FMU. WHile I ran kit, my air/fuel gauge always said I was running in safe conditions and I never had any detonation, but I know those gauges are not that reliable. The guy I sold it to, Koolvin, took his car to a dyno after turbo install, and he was actually running lean (with stock ECU) so he took care of the problems with the following (including actual pictures from his car)...

top right = MF2 Fuel managment system
Bottom left = Subaru MAP sensor
http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/mf2.jpg

Fith Injector:
http://193.63.6.63/koolvin/benz/turbo/map.jpg

To quote the guy who did the work on Koolvin's Mercedes...

"The original MB ecu actually adapted very well to the addition of boost - and certainly adapted to allow the system to provide more fuel for the extra air that was being forced in. In this particular case though - the extra fuelling required was outside the available "adjustment" in the ECU

Having checked the fuelling on the [dyno] it was definately lean at the top end under boost.
The extra injector is added to the charge pipework so the spray is atomised before the air actually enters the inlet plenum - this actually gives us a fuel enriched air charge before the OE injectors inject their fuel.

As Vin has said, the MF2 takes a reading from a seperate MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure), this tells the MF2 when the manifold pressure shows boost - at this point it starts to inject extra fuel. If no boost is present the MF2 does nothing and fuelling is just std OE MB.

So - In summary the MF2 squirts extra fuel only when the engine sees boost :)"

Please visit the link to thread provided for some info...

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/printthread.php?t=697&page=10&pp=15

Koolvin, the owner of the turbo'd Benz, is actually a moderator here on club202 but seems to have abandoned this site.

[jstrat85]

i got my chip back yeasterday and i took out my car for a test drive with the stock chip back into the car and its still running lean??? also i guned it on first gear and i feel that the car didnt know when to shit? you just heard the rpms rev high??? it did it to me 2 times i feel like it forgot shift? if i do 4 bigger injectors do you think its going to sole my problems??? also whats size injectors should i use?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by jstrat85
i got my chip back yeasterday and i took out my car for a test drive with the stock chip back into the car and its still running lean??? also i guned it on first gear and i feel that the car didnt know when to shit? you just heard the rpms rev high??? it did it to me 2 times i feel like it forgot shift? if i do 4 bigger injectors do you think its going to sole my problems??? also whats size injectors should i use?



it sounds like a tranmission flaring,.... if that the case your tranny might shot.


Regardz,

[Under Pressure]

Its takes a little driving for the computer to be able to adapt to the 50 extra or so horsepower your car now makes over the stock 150hp. It took mine around three days of driving. THe shifts became smooth (they were rough at first) and the strange idling died away. Hopefully, your computer adapts and driving will be smooth. YOur tranny will be able to handle the extra 50 hp, its really not that much. Just give it about 50 miles driving though and your computer should adapt.

Look at the pictures provided to you of Koolvin's turbo Benz and follow what he did. Take those pics and any text, print them, and take them to a shop to copy it. Koolvin had a great mechanic do his work, and you should be grateful he posted everything so your mechanics can do the same. Yes, he does have a C180 but its the exact same block and everything else of a C220, only 0.4 liter less displacement. That kit used to be mine on my C220, minus some of the modifications he did to it (i.e., all the fuel issues).


As to running lean, don't "gun it" until you resolve fuel issues. Doing anything (like adding injector) that adds extra fuel should resolve lean condition. Just follow Koolvin's lead.

Or turn the boost down on the wastegate to like 3psi (about each turn on the wastegate, assuming its the same external one I had, is about 1psi) for safety until you resolve lean conditions.

I think maybe you and I should talk on the phone. Email me at dtmfan76@hotmail.com and give me your phone number. I am studying for bar exam so I might not be able to call you until late on Thursday night. For now, do not be worried about your shifting or idling. Just concentrate on fuel issues for now (you will see idling/shifting issues will die away). Please email your number so we can talk ;)

[c280nz]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
Its takes a little driving for the computer to be able to adapt to the 50 extra or so horsepower your car now makes over the stock 150hp. It took mine around three days of driving. THe shifts became smooth (they were rough at first) and the strange idling died away. Hopefully, your computer adapts and driving will be smooth. YOur tranny will be able to handle the extra 50 hp, its really not that much. Just give it about 50 miles driving though and your computer should adapt.

Look at the pictures provided to you of Koolvin's turbo Benz and follow what he did. Take those pics and any text, print them, and take them to a shop to copy it. Koolvin had a great mechanic do his work, and you should be grateful he posted everything so your mechanics can do the same. Yes, he does have a C180 but its the exact same block and everything else of a C220, only 0.4 liter less displacement. That kit used to be mine on my C220, minus some of the modifications he did to it (i.e., all the fuel issues).


As to running lean, don't "gun it" until you resolve fuel issues. Doing anything (like adding injector) that adds extra fuel should resolve lean condition. Just follow Koolvin's lead.

Or turn the boost down on the wastegate to like 3psi (about each turn on the wastegate, assuming its the same external one I had, is about 1psi) for safety until you resolve lean conditions.

I think maybe you and I should talk on the phone. Email me at dtmfan76@hotmail.com and give me your phone number. I am studying for bar exam so I might not be able to call you until late on Thursday night. For now, do not be worried about your shifting or idling. Just concentrate on fuel issues for now (you will see idling/shifting issues will die away). Please email your number so we can talk ;)

so is adding an additional injector the best way? can you not just put slightly larger injectors in place of the stock ones?
and also have you done anything about advancing ignition? or left it to stock?
sorry for semi off topic q's

Edit.. Could someone please have a read of this (http://www.performancemotorresearch.co.nz/faqs.htm) site and see if this product will work with my merc I think it will do what i need to run boost. thanks

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by c280nz
so is adding an additional injector the best way? can you not just put slightly larger injectors in place of the stock ones?

I am suggesting he copy Koolvin's turbo'd Mercedes because the guy that did work on Koolvin's Mercedes is highly competent in turbo systems and Mercedes automobiles, and Koolvin has been running his car with that set up for many years now without problem. Its a great set-up.

[c280nz]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
I am suggesting he copy Koolvin's turbo'd Mercedes because the guy that did work on Koolvin's Mercedes is highly competent in turbo systems and Mercedes automobiles, and Koolvin has been running his car with that set up for many years now without problem. Its a great set-up.

yea i understant that,
i was just thinking that an additional injector is not the most efficient and most accurate method of doing it,
after reading the injector post it may be an idea to put in slightly larger standard injectors and then run one of the extra injector set-ups described above in relation 2 koolvins setup^.

so in that system koolvin was the ignition curve left standard?