How much boost?

[boesewicht]

I'm going to get a Mosselmann Turbo Kit for my C220. It will produce 205 hp with 0.4 bar of boost. They told me that the kit will run without any other modifications on the engine with that boost.

Can I turn up the boost on that Mosselmann system? What modifications do I have to make then? How much hp can I get out of that system WITHOUT blowing my engine..?

Existing power gains of other mods (exhaust system from header to muffler, camshafts) will persist and could be added to the estimated 205hp of mosselmann?
I estimate 220hp, is that okay?

And then how much hp could I get with turning up the boost (see my question above).

Hope you guys can help me.

Alex.

[Under Pressure]

THe kit comes with a Garrett AiResearch T-25 turbo, that has an adjustable external wastegate that you can adjust to turn up the boost. I think you could probably turn it up to maybe 6psi or so, which is not that much. I had mine running a little more boost but I think that a former member here blew his C220 engine at around 7psi with his turbo kit (he later rebuilt it). I would not want to risk it.

If you really wanted to crank it up, it would cost you money. You would have to get forged pistons/ rods, perhaps sleeves (though I think the C220's tough block might not need them), and bigger injectors for extra fueling.

[Denlasoul]

Is Jason H's website still up? I think it was turbobenz.com.

[boesewicht]

I know the webpage of JasonH, but I'm afraid of that pic with the blown engine. Please understand that I'm afraid of taking information from there.

So 0.4 bar is the best way to go with? How much hp could I get out of turning the boost up to 0,5, to 0,6 and to 0,7 ?

What means "Sleeves" and why do you think the 220 block does not need them?

Is 0,6 okay? Do I need forged pistons / rods, bigger injectors and those sleeves (please tell me what they are) for running that boost secure and stable?

Do I need something else? Or is that all I need, forged pistons, rods, bigger injectors and sleeves?

Thank you in advance, please help me to answer my questions.

[VIP_MBZ]

Sleeves are steel cylinder inserts used to reinforce an otherwise all-aluminum block. Not sure which MB blocks are cast iron and which are aluminum, but you don't need sleeves on a cast iron block.

-Ray

[Under Pressure]

Here is a picture of a sleeved block...

https://www.wiredspeed.com/mmWIRED/images/aeb_tsleeve_250.gif

They act to reinforce the block to prevent damage from high pressure. Between sleeve and reinforced (forged) pistons and rods, your entire combustion area of your engine would be secure. But the C220 has a pretty tough block to run reasonable psi, and I dont think you would need it sleeved. But as former member Jason showed us, you would need forged rods/pistons for around 7psi, because I think thats where his gave out. However, sleeves may be something to consider if you intended psi is so high that you risk side loading. A good set for the Honda cars is around $1,000 USD, just to giv you an idea of cost.

I don't know the first think about bar pressure as I am unfamiliar w/ the metric system and too lazy to use an online conversion, but for reliability without spending a fortune, I would not take it beyond, say, 6psi. Again, I believe Jason's engine blew around 7psi before he rebuilt it with forged rods/pistons (and then his car burned up).

My stupid and cheap advice, run it for around 6psi and if you blow a piston, replace it with a beefier one...

[Ashkan's C280]

why did his car burn up? what happened?

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
why did his car burn up? what happened?

He says it was some electrical problem, and it may very well have been. But my opinion, looking at the pics from his old website that is no longer up, is that the turbo was touching the sound deadening material in the engine bay (Mosselman's first direction for install is to remove that material) and got so hot that it lit it on fire, and then the fire spread.

[boesewicht]

@ Under pressure

Thank you very much for your information.

Is it better to go with forged pistons / rods and bigger injectors when running 6 psi? Or can I leave piston /rods /injectors standard?

Do I need only those three mods (pistons, rods and injectors) additional to the mosselmann kit or is there something else?

I don't want to blow my engine!

Thanks

Edit:

Just read the other thread about the injectors. After reading VIP_MBZ answer, I ask myself if there's a standalone computer needed when I put bigger injectors in or not? Didn't understand all he wrote.

And is using injectors from C230K possible at 5 or 6 psi? Is this a good solution or not? Do I have to reprogramm anything? Or do I need that piggypack (whatever that is) thing? Please help me guys!

[Ashkan's C280]

wouldn't you make a lot more hp with forged pistons better rods, and better injectors?

[Under Pressure]

I dont really think you would need all the support mods if you just run 5-6psi. I didnt do any support mod and I ran it for 9,000 miles without ever having any problems. I suppose you can just install the kit, get it tuned, and see if you are running lean. If so, then worry about extra fueling via bigger or additional injectors.


I think your stock pistons/cylinder should be able to handle up to 6psi, thats pretty low pressure. My boost crept beyond these numbers in the cold Ohio winter and never blew (and I had stock pistons/rods). BUt then again, Jason's engine blew a piston at only around 7psi. I guess set a 6psi and a good, proper tuning should be okay to run 6psi. I believe the kit is set for 5.5psi so 6 psi should be okay. Mine was.

Also, Koolvin, who purchased my kit from me, runs his at about 5.5 psi and his shop decided it would be better to add a fifth injector since it was running lean. Maybe thats the only modification you will need to do is to add extra fuel. You know, the previous generation Nissan Xterra was available supercharged, and the Xterra's supercharger only made 3psi, yet the engineers at Nissan found it necessary to add extra fueling for it. So maybe you should add extra fueling for yours.

[boesewicht]

To get extra fuel, do I have to get BIGGER injectors or EXTRA injectors?

How much injectors does my engine have? And how much can I install?

Mosselmann says 0.4 bar, is that the same like 4psi? If not, how much bar is 6 psi?


Thanks again

Alex.

[Denlasoul]

1bar = 14,5psi
0,4bar = 5,8psi
6psi = 0,41bar

[boesewicht]

@ denlasoul

WOW! Never thought that 6 psi are only 0,41 bar ! I thought about running 0,6 bar when Mosselmann adjusts the stock trim at 0,4 bar... A friend of mine has a Porsche 993 Bi-Turbo RSR, he's running 1,2 Bar. And another friend is running 0,8 Bar in a VW Golf 3 VR6 custom turbo set up. So 0,4 bar sound svery low to me...?!

How much power will I get out of that Mosselmann kit in combination with my full exhaust system, bigger injectors and running 6 psi?

What do I need to run 0,6 bar ( 9 psi ) ? Forged pistons, rods, injectors, lower compression, anything else?

Jstrat, please join in with some details. How much hp can I get out a turbo setup and what modifications do i have to make to run a stable engine?

[Under Pressure]

My modified Subaru WRX runs 1.1bar :D

My friend has a Toyota Supra that runs 2 bar :cool:

Anyway, if you want to run 0.6bar, and that is 9psi, then you will definitely have to do supporting modifications. You will have to get forged pistons/rods. Also, you will have to get extra fueling, either through better injectors or by getting additional injector. These are musts, and are the basic support mods when someone turbos a non-turbo car and runs more than low boost.

I am not too sure how much the transmission will handle, that is something to consider. I believe the stock block should be able to handle 0.6bar without needing to be sleeved, but I am not an expert so that is not a gaurantee. But yes, you will have to do forged pistons/rods for that kind of boost, and will need more fueling (the Vortech FMU that comes with the MOsselman kit will not be able to save you here).

Thats about the only things I can think of. I believe the plastic Bosch blow off vale that comes with the MOsselman kit will be able to handle that kind of boost, so no need to get another one.

[jnenad16]

I ran my 1997 BMW 328is with 9psi boost with Powerdyne BD-11 supercharger without any engine or tranny modifications for nearly a year with NO problems at all. the major thing to lookout for is the preignition or detonation, which is most likely what blew out Jason's engine. make sure your AFR is normal or even a bit richer that normal, it will save you a lot of headache down the road, also make sure your ignition is not to advanced in the higher RPM, otherwise there will be some serious preignition and your engine will most likely blow up.
at higher boost, the first thing that usually fails is the headgasket, not the pistons, so I would look into that if you are not sure your engine will handle that boost.

nenad

[boesewicht]

@ Under Pressure & Jnenad

Thank you.



I still have a few questions that hopefully somebody of you can answer :

1. What kind of injectors should I use? Those from the C230K? If not: What else? Make? Flow rate?

2. How much injectors does my car (C220) have? How much injectors can I install?

3. No need for the block to get sleeved at 0,6 bar (9psi) ?

4. Who makes good forged pistons and rods for my '96 C220?

5. Does FMU mean "Fuel Map Unit"?

6. Why does the Fortech FMU that comes with the Mosselmann Kit not suffice? What's wrong with that FMU? And..what kind of FMU should I get instead?

7. A BOV made out of plastic? That sounds shitty... wouldn't it be better to get a BOV made out of aluminium? For the nice and loud "pff" ? :D

8. What is the "preignition" ?

9. I have to get an AFR controller, right?

10.
also make sure your ignition is not to advanced in the higher RPM, otherwise there will be some serious preignition and your engine will most likely blow up.
How do I controll the ignition? What do I have to do that the ignition is not too advanced in the higher rpm?

11.
at higher boost, the first thing that usually fails is the headgasket, not the pistons, so I would look into that if you are not sure your engine will handle that boost.
My headgasket will die soon, so I will replace it anyway. But...I do have to change pistons and rods for that boost, right?

12. Wouldn't it be cheaper to get a custom turbo set up instead of the mosselmann kit + all those modifications?

13. Finally: How much hp can I expect with
a) stock mosselmann kit + my full exhaust system?
b) mosselmann kit, my exhaust system, better injectors and 6 psi of boost?
c) mosselmann kit running at 9 psi with all the mods (piston, rods, injectors, fmu, etc( ?


Sorry guys for having so much questions, but I want to make sure to have a good running turbo set up that I can drive daily (only 7 months a year) and I don't want to damage my engine.


Thank you so much in advance.

Alex.

[VIP_MBZ]

Anyway, if you want to run 0.6bar, and that is 9psi, then you will definitely have to do supporting modifications. You will have to get forged pistons/rods. Also, you will have to get extra fueling, either through better injectors or by getting additional injector. These are musts, and are the basic support mods when someone turbos a non-turbo car and runs more than low boost.

Yep, turboing an n/a car usually isn't all that efficient versus a complete engine swap. A 230K can do 13 psi all day long completely stock.

-Ray

[jnenad16]

alex,

Get 24lb/hr injectors, preferably accel(brand). your car has 4cylinders,thus it has 4 injectors. as for the block sleeving, I dont think its necessary since your block is cast iron, but to be sure, consult your local MB specialist, they might know a bit more about the 220's block than me. as for the pistons, je pistons, mahle and arias are quite good from what I heard. as for the rods, carillo and crower are supposedly the best here in the states, dont know any in europe. FMU means Fuel Management Unit(not a necessary component if you get your EEPROM custom burned). as for the Vortech FMU, I dont have any experience with it, so I cant give you any valuable input on it. I also dont have any experience with BOV either, but from what I've heard and seen on my friends's cars, greddy BOV should be good enough. preignition(also known as knock, detonation) happeds when the AF mix is ignited before the proper ignition angle, thus resulting in uneven cylinder firing, extremely increased combustion chamber temperatures, and extensive engine damage. the most common damage resulting from the preignition is burned valves, burned pistons(it burns a hole in them), bent or snapped rods, blown headgasket, and/or cracked head. there are several ways to control preignition/detonation, which include retarding the ignition, using higher octane fuel, colder intake air charge, lowering the compression, or lowering the boost pressure. since you want to run the highest boost possible without damaging the engine, I would highly recommend the high octane fuel and coldest possible intake air charge as the best ways for controlling the detonation. the best way to cool the air would be a good water injection system(you can use an intercooler, but it will restrict your intake somewhat) I also highly recommend having the fuel and ignition maps remapped by good local chip tuner to make sure everything is running smoothly and correctly. with all this perfromed, you will not need an AFR controller. the best way, I my opinion, would not be turbo, but a supercharger. I talk about this modification in many threads on this site, do a search under POWERDYNE and you'll find some info on this. Its hard to estimate HP gains, it depends on the condition of your engine, the efficiency of the turbo, intercooler, other mods you might have and so on. I would estimate gains of about 50hp or more.

nenad

[Under Pressure]

The Vortech FMU that comes with the kit was always criticised by anyone that saw it; supposedly it kind of garbage and may be why Koolvin's car was running lean while he used it. I too was probably running lean when I had it, but never knew. All the people at the various car sites I go to seem to judge the Vortech FMU unfavoriably as a cheap fix for extra fueling, and I suppose really that is what it is.

Also, you definitely want the car to get a good tuning, including retarding the timing like suggested. Don't skip getting a good tuning, you may be robbing yourself of a little extra power.

The Mosselman kit comes with an intercooler, so you have that covered. It comes w/ the following (from what I remember)...

-Front mount intercooler
-intercooler piping
-35% nickel manifold (VERY NICE!!!!)
-Garrett T25 turbo
-spark plugs
-Bosch plastic BOV
-Downpipe
-chargepipe
-K&N Filter
-Filter housing and flex hosing to connect filter housing to turbo
-heat resistant connectors (to connect the various pipes/hoses)
-oil line return
-etc. necessary hardware
-installation guide

It includes everything you need to get your car going at 5.5psi it comes set at.

Its hard to estimate your power gains so I cant really help you there.

I will try to answer some more questions later, but now I have to feed the dog...

[jstrat85]

hi guys first of all the the vortec fmu is garbage!! its no good. thats what im doing to my car. im geting a fuel regulator thats adjustable. the vortech fmu is not adjustable. its coming in on monday. i took it to my guy and he told me that my car is running rich on no boost and when im on boost its running lean! thats no good thats how you blow up your motor. you put a hole right through you pistons. 3 things that i want to stress alot is 3 gauges that you are going to need!!!!! the fist one boost/vacume gauge, the 2nd egt gauge that reads how hot the fuems thats are going out of your engein and out through your exhaust! it has to be anywear from 8 to 12. ones it goes up to 16 you have to back off the boost because its going to burn your motor! the 3rd one is i like it alot is the aem wideband o2 censor. it reads how much fuel is going into your motor and if its running lean or rich. ones on boost it has to run 12. off boost it doesnt matter. when i spoke to jason he told me that these m111 motors are really strong! with 9psi i think you are going to be doing over 300hp and 1/4mile i think around 14.3. if you want to do around 9 psi you have to do either 4 bigger injectors or 1 biger injector to get more fuel. i think the best thing to do is get 4 bigger one thats what im going to do. and also you have to doa piigy back ecu. i will let you guys know how my car turns out as soon as im done with it!;)

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by jstrat85
the aem wideband o2 censor. it reads how much fuel is going into your motor and if its running lean or rich. ones on boost it has to run 12.

That may be a fair general statement, but not necessarily always true. Gauges in general should be used as trend monitors to show that the car is performing consistently, but you should do major tuning on the dyno ONLY.


with 9psi i think you are going to be doing over 300hp

Uhm.. no.


and 1/4mile i think around 14.3. if you want to do around 9 psi you have to do either 4 bigger injectors or 1 biger injector to get more fuel. i think the best thing to do is get 4 bigger one thats what im going to do. and also you have to doa piigy back ecu. i will let you guys know how my car turns out as soon as im done with it!;)

It's very encouraging to see someone very excited about tuning their M111, but it's also very clear that you aren't very sure about the entire tuning process, and misinformation could be potentially dangerous to other members.

-Ray

[Under Pressure]

My best guess, just for fun, is that a C220 w/ 9psi will probably make in the ballpark of about 235-240hp.

[jstrat85]

235 to 240 no way! i know it has to be more than that! also i drove my car now for 70 miles and my rpms still go up and down!

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by jstrat85
235 to 240 no way! i know it has to be more than that! also i drove my car now for 70 miles and my rpms still go up and down!

Odd, my ecu adjusted itself after about 50 miles or so. I guess keep driving until it figures itself out.

THe reason my guess of around 240hp is because in low pressure, 1psi is roughly equal to about 10hp. So if you multiply 9 by ten, you get 90hp. Add that to the C220 stock 147hp, and you get 237hp.

[jnenad16]

you need to reset the ecu first by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. then the ecu should be able to calibrate itself after about 40 starts.

nenad

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by jstrat85
235 to 240 no way! i know it has to be more than that!

Don't buy into the hype; a Supra makes 320hp at the crank with one of the best 3.0L ever made and 10 psi pumped out of twin turbos.

A C220 with 9 psi isn't going to come REMOTELY close. I'll buy you a pie if it breaks 200 at the wheels, shortly after it loses to a completely stock Honda Accord V6.

Look at the 1.8L C230k Coupe. It's running 13 psi and still can't get out of its own way.

That's the facts.

-Ray

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Don't buy into the hype; a Supra makes 320hp at the crank with one of the best 3.0L ever made and 10 psi pumped out of twin turbos.

A C220 with 9 psi isn't going to come REMOTELY close. I'll buy you a pie if it breaks 200 at the wheels, shortly after it loses to a completely stock Honda Accord V6.

Look at the 1.8L C230k Coupe. It's running 13 psi and still can't get out of its own way.

That's the facts.

-Ray

In all fairness, the 1.8L C230K Coupe engine is 0.4L smaller in displacement, and has lower compression ratio. Plus the fact the supercharger suffers some parasitic power loss from running off the belt as oppossed to a turbo's running off exhaust gasses.

As for the Accord V6, funny you should bring that up because I raced and beat one in my old Mosselman turbo'd C220. In fact, it was my first race ever after install. It wasn't a smack down but I beat it, and that was at about 6psi. I also kept up with a Nissan Maxima SE (255hp 3.5L engine) if that gives you any indication of performance.

I had fun with my car, I am sure others will with theirs too.

[VIP_MBZ]

I will be genuinely interested in seeing the results of this project.

-Ray

[jstrat85]

are you crazy i will smack a stock honda accord v6 with out my turbo. before this i had headers chip intake exhaust and i beat my cuz audi a4v6 and the hondas v6s. for my rpm that keep on going up and down it might be a vacume leak from my blow out valve. im going to check it out tom if there is a leak from the bov.

[Under Pressure]

Ah yes, my car used to stall after I put in the HKS BOV and I couldnt figure out why. My friend's shop got the idea it might be BOV and adjusted it - no more stalling!

[VIP_MBZ]

Bringing up the Accord (and I'm referring to the current model coupe) wasn't designed to be a diss, but it's food for thought because you'll end up spending thousands of dollars just to try to compete with a relatively inexpensive stock car. Here's the Honda specs and some MBZ for comparison.

2004 Honda Accord EX Coupe V6 6-speed, 0-60 in 5.9 sec, 1/4 in 14.5s

1998 Mercedes-Benz C43 AMG, 0-60 in 5.8s, 1/4 in 14.4s

1996 Mercedes-Benz C220, 0-60 in 9.0s, 1/4 in 16.9s

1999 Mercedes-Benz C230 Komp, 0-60 in 7.6s, 1/4 in 15.7s

and some others that fall under the hand of the Accord V6:

2004 Ford Mustang GT, 0-60 6.3s, 1/4 in 14.8s

2003 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro, 0-60 7.7s, 1/4 in 15.9s

In its domain, the Accord Coupe V6 is a FAST CAR. Knowing that I have to make my car smog-illegal, stress the motor more, risking reliability, and spend a lot of money just to get to THAT level, it reminds me why I just leave the motor stock.

All else being equal, including driver error and vehicle condition, it takes a C43 to run even with the Accord. If you have the recipe to beat that with a C220 running a small turbo at 9 psi, then I better jump on the band wagon and turn my C230k into a Corvette-killer. More practically, instead of taking a $15,000 Mercedes and adding $5000 worth of mods, if stylishly going fast is what you want, just get a used Supra already (I've had 3 of them, it's my performance platform of choice):

1993 Toyota Supra Turbo, 0-60 4.9s, 1/4 in 13.4s with plleeennnty of room to grow, and you won't be sweating ANY other car on the road, including exotics and hot rods.

But to each his own, and I am curious how the whole project will turn out.

-Ray

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
Ah yes, my car used to stall after I put in the HKS BOV and I couldnt figure out why. My friend's shop got the idea it might be BOV and adjusted it - no more stalling!

Cars equipped with AFMs aren't designed to have atmosphere-vented BOV because you are losing metered air. Tightening the BOV will help it recover faster, plus the fact that the HKS BOV has a very quick release, but overall, it will have that tendency.

-Ray

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Cars equipped with AFMs aren't designed to have atmosphere-vented BOV because you are losing metered air. Tightening the BOV will help it recover faster, plus the fact that the HKS BOV has a very quick release, but overall, it will have that tendency.

-Ray

Yea, I learned that after I put the BOV on. Plus the sound got annoying too. I suggest staying away from them. But yea, I didnt know what was going on so I took it to my friend's shop, he made some adjustments on the BOV, and problem went away.

As for the Accord V6, I beat one that was the then current one in 2001, when I had my turbo kit put on. In a very short race, he was only up to my doors. It had at least exhaust mods (it had two coffee can tips in the back). And like I said earlier, my turbo'd C220 was very even with a 255hp Maxima, if not only losing by about a foot in a pretty short race. Oh, I also raced and beat a Civic Si (1999? you know the Blue ones that arent the new hatchbacks).

But whatever. THese guys can go out and buy the new Eclipse and get closer to C43 0-60 and what not, but what is the fun in that? Much respect to anyone that turbo's a Mercedes and helps with the image that Mercedes owners are not all boring old men :bandit:

[JasonH]

I just came back to this forum after long hiatus hoping to see some new Pics of Jstrat85’s car and stumbled across this thread.

Honestly, I don’t want to get sucked into a huge discussion about turboing as it’s a complex subject and it is extremely situational dependent to what you have and what you want to achieve. Not to mention, I don’t want to spend hours online at work on this forum too. ;)

However, I do want to point out a couple of facts about my old car and the capability and potential of the M111 with a properly tuned turbo setup.

I ran the quarter mile consistently under 14.5 with a best of 14.3. Of course that’s slow compared to my slightly modified Evo which runs consistent high 12’s with a best of 12.7, Nonetheless, it was certainly faster than any stock Accord I have ever seen.

I ran my car very hard. I would literally go to the track at least every other weekend, and do between 8 – 15 passes on each outing. Just for the record, when the piston on the first engine went, it was actually during normal driving, pulling through an intersection on my way to work. Most likely a hot-spot had developed during one of the many occasions I ran lean in the early days at the track and I was living on borrowed time from then on out. Finally, it just finally gave out. Remember, I was running up to 9psi on the stock internals for over a year at the track before that incident, in the latter days, my fueling was just fine, but the early days were a mess. The 14.3 number was achieved at 9psi on stock internals with over 106,000mi on 105 unleaded race gas. The car weighed in at 3340 lbs with me in it and a half tank of gas, if memory serves. Given the consistent times I was turning week after week for over a year the HP was in the ball-park but likely a bit higher than some of the guesses posted in this thread.

I truly wish that I could have at least got to the track once with the 2nd engine before it caught fire. We built it to be able to run 15psi no problem and it was indeed running going to be quick. Much quicker than 14.3. In fact, I am quite certain it would have posted at least a high 13 second quarter mile. Let’s put it this way, from a standing start with a bit of preload on the converter it would tear off the line with a bit of wheel-spin (limited by my skilled foot) and the tires were literally breaking loose again on the shift from 1st to 2nd at 6000 rpm. The tires had never broken loose on the shift from 1-2nd. I recorded a 13.7 with my G-Tech Pro Competition prior to the inferno and I found the G-Tech to be pretty reliable to within a 10th (I used to run it on all my passes at the track and compare the results to the actual time-slips). However, I will never claim that, because I only lay claim to what is proven with a time-slip.

For me the turboing the C220 was a learning experience… and a rather expensive, exciting, fun, and ultimately heartbreaking one at that. When I bought the foundation of the turbo setup and put it on I really didn’t know jack about turbo’s. In retrospect, the kit I bought originally was clearly designed more for show than go. There were many things that needed to be addressed. Some simple, like the BOV venting to atmosphere in a MAF car… duh! Others took time and trial & error to figure out and dial in, particularly the proper fueling (hence the blown piston). Essentially, the car ended up being a constant R&D project. There were many times when I abused the engine and ran the car too lean, particularly in the early days with that Vortech when I didn’t know what I was doing. However, by the time I built the 2nd engine I had come a loooooong way and I do feel I have a pretty reasonable understanding of turbos now.

My unsolicited advice to anyone wanting to turbo your car is simply is find a good shop that has already built several successful and well proven (not just for show) custom setups. But also, hit the books and web and learn all you can before you get into it. That way you will not make some of the same mistakes that I made.

Make damn sure you’re A/F ratios are safe all the time… use the combination of gauges mentioned already in this thread and definitely take it to a dyno for a couple of pulls on different days as well. A Vortech FMU is inadequate for anything running more than even 5psi. and even then it’s unreliable as several including myself have proven. My suggestion, invest in a stand alone or piggyback ECU, that can monitor, manipulate, record, and report on your engines functions (particularly your fueling and timing), and learn how to use it. At the very least run a 5th on a separate boost/fuel map rather than a mechanical FMU. Like Koolvin is doing.

UP - I know you think it was the lining that caused the fire and there is no doubt that it helped it to spread quickly once it was going, however, I still think it was an electrical short/issue (probably one of the many tapped wires) in my ECU area that was the true spark of the inferno.

Cheers all and good luck John! :D
Jason

[boesewicht]

Thank you very much for all the posts.

Now...I'm not sure if I should really do it.

I have to think about it again...

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by boesewicht
Now...I'm not sure if I should really do it.

I have to think about it again...

When I got my Mosselman kit, the C220 still had some value so it was worth dumping lots of money into it (for me anyway). Given the small value of the C220 now, its not really worth it unless you plan on building a nice show car or something like that.

I dont know how much you can get the kit for, but I paid $4k for mine. TOday, $4k is about how much a C220 costs so its not worth it. Maybe better to just consider saving the money for the next car.

I think that if I hadnt spent all that money on the turbo kit, I would have a WRX STi now instead of a regualr WRX. But I must admit that with that turbo'd C220, I now have great automotive memories of driving one unique automobile that was well known in the city I lived amongst the "tuner" (read - "ricer") crowd.

It was fun, and at the time worth the cost. Considering today's value of the C220, the most I would likely do is buy a second hand N2O kit. Have you considered that as a cheap way for some horsepower?

[jstrat85]

maybe this would make you change your mind!!!!!!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/jstrat85/w202/john005.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/jstrat85/w202/john004.jpg
this is my custom turbo kit! i love it!!!!:D

[Under Pressure]

HOT DIGGITY!!!!!!!! THATS SOME HOTNESS!!!!!!! Thanks for the quality pics (finally!)

I must say that the Mosselman kit is very ugly in comparison to all that bling! Mosselman kit is all black and uses flex hoses in certain parts. That set up is smoking! Good job!

[JasonH]

JStrat85,

Sweeeeet!!!! I knew that pipe would clean up and look good again, and you have really done a wonderful job. :D

I am so stoked to see that beautiful setup on a car again. It pained me every time I saw it sitting neglected in my garage. Man, once you get your fueling dialed in you are going to be truly stoked. Hell, I am already stoked for you! No doubt, your car is TRULY going to be the total package. :banana:

Simply awesome!!! :cool:
Jason

[JasonH]

Oh yeah, like I mentioned in our last phone conversation, run a tube from that fitting on the end of the BOV back into the air intake just before the turbo. Looks like you might not be using that piece with the bung in it that came with the kit? Anyway, your car will run better if you do this.

Cheers,
Jason

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by JasonH
Oh yeah, like I mentioned in our last phone conversation, run a tube from that fitting on the end of the BOV back into the air intake just before the turbo. Looks like you might not be using that piece with the bung in it that came with the kit? Anyway, your car will run better if you do this.

Cheers,
Jason
hey jason, how much whp did your car have after the upgrade? also, who made the manifold?

nenad

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by jnenad16
also, who made the manifold?

I don't mean to answer this question for Jason, but when I talked to the original owner of the kit, he said it was custom made by some shop called Kiwi Fabrication or something like that. If you plan on turboing a Mercedes and want to build it yourself, at least try to get a manifold from Mosselman - it 35% nickel and is very unlikely to crack from the heat.

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by JasonH
that fitting on the end of the BOV

I have been wondering what on earth that was ever since he posted pics. :confused: Now I know what its for...

[jstrat85]

hey whats up guys i spoke to my guy who put on the turbo for me and he said the part that i need came in today. so i will keep you guys updated.

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by jstrat85
hey whats up guys i spoke to my guy who put on the turbo for me and he said the part that i need came in today. so i will keep you guys updated.

Any update?